Fortune Room Steals Money

[jetset]

Fortune Lounge, and specifically Wim's continued efforts here are I think evidence of good intent on their part, and they have in the past worked on areas where they were found wanting (the cancelled checks, for example)

Bryan is now bringing a totally fresh mind to this problem, and I would suggest that we wait to see what he thinks and what he manages to broker.

It's an interesting problem, because if Johnnydemp really was a fraudster you would not expect him to be persisting with a fraudulent claim to this extent and to this length.

 

[pokeraddict]

This whole issue is over $500 it seems right? The deposit was refunded so its just the winnings. Its obvious FL is trying to get everything straight in its CS but how much money do you think they lose from threads like this all over WOL and here and other portals (I can only assume)How many people who are new to this see all the troubles like this and say forget it. It's obvious johnny is going to lots of effort here to show he did nothing wrong. I guess after 60 days after the charge one would know if it was a charge back or not, doubt anyone wants to wait that long.

 

[The Dude]

Okay.

Fortune Lounge had already processed the additional refund of $230 to johnnydemp's account before I received his documentation. This amount, together with the $1,000 that was refunded before is the full amount he cashed in.

Case closed.

FL did give him the benefit of the doubt and even attempted to get his bank to verify his card, but the bank declined to verify anything which left the casino with no option but to go with their original assessment and decision.

I hope that everyone realizes that this industry is in the fetal stage. Casinos are becoming more popular and accepted by the public as a whole; thus becoming not only more populated with good honest players, but hit up by fraudsters and syndicates as well.

Casinos protect themselves just as you would if you were operating your own cyber-business.

The VP of operations is now personally reviewing every single account that is locked for suspicious documentation. In the last few days he has already reversed a few decisions and had accounts re-opened. If anyone has an issue such as johnnydemp's, it will get his full and urgent attention and unless they are more than 60% sure that they have received fraudulent documentation, they will give the player the benefit of doubt.

As of now, they handle about 60,000 customer contacts in their call center per month. This is via e-mail and phone contacts. Hopefully this will put things into a better perspective. Players will have problems; players will make mistakes. Customer service reps will make mistakes as well. There are a few players that have been critical of my support for the FL group, but I understand that the small percentage of complaints (there will always be complaints) does not warrant being dragged out into the street and shot.

Responsiveness and cooperation are what makes a good business tick. I hope most of you will understand this.

 

[glodge]

Well said Bryan.

 

[jetset]

"Responsiveness and cooperation are what makes a good business tick."

Amen to that. And it has to be said again that FL has made mistakes but has stepped up to its problems and sorted them out in an open and honest fashion (as far as I can tell anyway)

Compare this to the attitude of RTG if you want perspective!

 

[murder1]

Good Case Close! Next Case Please.

 

[jamesdean]

FL Vice Prez, I have had similar problems with asking to be paid to neteller and recieving a check.
I was told by your support that you must be a registered player for 3 months before being able to get paid to neteller.
Is this true? And if so why?
This is one of the dumber policies I have ever heard of if it is true, and are you guys willing to change this, because it is frustrating to recieve a check when you want to make deposits to somewhere online but have to fund your neteller account again.

 

[cipher]

"FL did give him the benefit of the doubt and even attempted to get his bank to verify his card, but the bank declined to verify anything which left the casino with no option but to go with their original assessment and decision"

Has anybody here ever heard of the PATRIOT ACT?

You'd have to be out of your ever lov'n mind to think that any bank here in the United States would verify anything with an off-shore casino.

In my opinion this whole thing boils down to the fact that FL got caught with their hands in the cookie jar AGAIN and that's a fact.

Yes Johnnydemp has been paid, in much the same way that a bank robber would return the money to the bank that he just robbed after having been caught in the act.

You might as well put a loaded 45 in the hands of FL if you are of the mind that there aren't going to be even more serious problems downstream.

 

[The Dude]

<hr size=0>quote:<p>Has anybody here ever heard of the PATRIOT ACT?<hr size=0>​

Johnnydemp isn't American and this had nothing to do with American banks. I wouldn't consider South Africa or the UK "off-shore" either.

 

[cipher]

It would appear as though the banks in South Africa and the UK (like the Banks in the United States) refuse to verify financial information with Internet Casinos be they located here in the United States, South Africa or even the United Kingdom to their credit.

 

[cipher]

This FORTUNE LOUNGE situation involves now numerous complaints by numerous individuals over a two to three month period of time.

It seems to me that all I've seen from the FORTUNE GROUP is excuses and failed attempts at transferring the blame to anyone other than themselves.

As far as the V.P. of Operations for FORTUNE LOUNGE (Mr. WIM) is concerned, I don't see that he has any control whatsoever over anything that takes place at FORTUNE LOUNGE.

Case in point. Two months ago I communicated the fact to WIM that I was tired of being innudated with offers from all of the FORTUNE GROUP of casinos, despite my asking to be removed from their lists on each and every occassion that I recieved one of the aforementioned emails. That same day I recieved a reply from WIM advising me that the problem had been taken care of and that I would no longer recieve emails from the FORTUNE GROUP or their affiliates. That was (46) emails ago the last of which was yesterday and it's main focus was that of "MAKING ME A DEAL THAT I COULD NOT REFUSE".

 

[murder1]

Cipher I couldn't agree more!!! I ask to stop receiving promotional emails, got 3 today. FL is a ROGUE in my book.

 

[johnnydemp]

No I'm not an American, but not far away, and glad to hear that my bank wouldnt divulge my personnel information to an online casino. Are you serious FL? Calling my bank? You guys are even more unbeleivable then I originally thought. Just when you thought there wasnt enough reasons to avoid FL casinos;

1) making calls to peoples work and home begging for deposits. (I guess they dont beleive in email...oh wait I've been spammed 20 times today by them)

2) stopping payment on checks for payments which they had already processed, but decided after to do more extensive security checks thus justifying the stop payments. hahaha

3) Asking for absurd amounts of documents, including proof of how you funded your neteller account with ID and a signed waiver, as well as a utility bill.

4) Poor customer service, including hanging up on customers, saying that they will never recieve their deposits back, then telling such person to perform a chargeback.

5) Locking accounts at a moments notice for reasons they do not disclose to the player for the "protection of their security measures"

6) The inability to pay their players by the means they request through the payment request forms that they have. A task which seems simple enough, I guess not for FL though.

7) claiming a players ID which they send them is fake with no real proof or acceptable explanation other then they think it is.

8) Calling your financial institution to verify your identity. Im sure everyone wants online casinos calling their banks....dont they?

These are all legitimate proof backed statements that have been discussed within the casinomeister forum in the last 2 months. Is this the type of casino group you real want to play at, or which should be considered reputable? Possibly the only casino that recieves more complaints then FL is the TVS group, and being lumped in a group with them is less then impressive. I recommend that players go play eleswhere at casinos which are not so incompetent and which have the capacity to perform simple tasks. Does anyone else find it funny that such a supossedly reputable casino group recieves so many complaints? (Please dont use the excuse that they are so big and handle so many players because there are way bigger casinos out there which cause 5% of the problems FL does.)

 

[linda7]

Johnnydemp:
By your persistence alone, I had a gut feeling that you were an honorable player. Despite, FL'S
determination that you were not. This is why I kept posting here on this thread. However, I also think that Bryan had something to do with you getting paid. Bryan can spot false documentation from 20 paces and I believe that he may have told FL they were wrong. You may want to thank Bryan...he is full of decency and integrity. I am happy you got your money.

Linda

 

[murder1]

Yep I am glad you receive your money also. The sad thing is you found out the hard way. Like I found out the hard way about Crystal Palace. But thank God for this Board and the hard work We all as a group put into helping one another out. :&lt;,) I have become to know most members as trust worthy family. Keep up the good work Guys :&lt;,). Its time we stood up to these ROGUES and say no more!

 

[jinnia]

Now they send email with offers a week after offer is over? Received this yesterday, July 25, 2003: Check date and time email was sent to me, then inside message body, the date this offer was active::

And only mentions how depositing should be painless, nothing about withdrawing should be painless::

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortune Lounge Casinos" &gt;,[email protected]&lt;,
To: "xxxx" &gt;,[email protected]&lt;,
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Get your bonus here...


Hi xxxxxx,

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Opt-in to claim your bonus by visiting:
Link Removed (Old/Invalid) @xxxx.com&field2=xxxxxx&field3=xxxxxxxxxxxx=$150

Having problems opting-in? Please visit

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and submit your details.

Good luck with your extra bonus,

John Hughes
Director, Casino Marketing

* 50% purchase match offer applies to all purchases between Thursday July 10 and Sunday July 13, to a combined purchase total of $300. Maximum bonus: $150.
* Accounts will be credited on Monday July 14.


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UNSUBSCRIBE
As a real player at Fortune Lounge Casinos you are entitled to receive fantastic free money offers, loyalty payouts, and promotional news. Should you wish to subscribe or unsubscribe from our promotions, news, or free money offers, please visit the link below:

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Sorry people for copy/paste on entire email .. thought I'd keep it togehter as sent to me....

 

[caruso]

I somehow doubt our friend has the expression "thank you" in his vocabulary judging by his general behaviour around the forums, so I wouldn't be holding my breath too long on that score.

Along with one or two other MG groups - Vegas Partner and Trident come to mind - Fortune Lounge is currently one of the best out there. Bryan would not be advertising for them if that weren't the case. Suggestions to the contrary are uninformed and uneducated.

 

[linda7]

Caruso,
I only play at casinos that Bryan endorses.
As far as I am concerned, he is one of the very few honest people in the online gaming industry. As for the FL group, I have not tried them yet. I am sure I will at some point. To insult people by stating they are uninformed or uneducated is not necessary, in fact, its downright mean. Try being nice, it makes life better for everyone.

 

[jinnia]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, feelings and thoughts.

And the comment of being 'uninformed and uneducated' lays also with the ones who BELIEVE they are informed correctly and educated to the truth of matter.

The informed/uniformed, the educated/uneducated all stand on what experience&gt;,s&lt;, they have had with a situation.

 

[cipher]

I doubt that there are few people who hold Bryan in higher regard than I do. That has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion of FORTUNE LOUNGE and the manner in which they choose to conduct there affairs.

In Johnnydemp's most recent post he has stated eight FACTS and in my most recent post I've stated a couple of additional FACTS.

FACT n.(defined) a real occurrence

Caruso, every derogatory item that has been written here with regards the FORTUNE GROUP is totally supported by factual occurrences.

Cipher

 

[johnnydemp]

Caruso, I have provided nothing but factual information from within the forums backed by the Vpops from FL. I know you like to squander other peoples opinons as a means of feeling superior to others, but I have stated not opinion but factual information. To dispute these facts would seem to be rather uninformed and uneducated. As well I would take this opportunity to thank the "Casinomeister" publically here, even though I have already thanked him personnally to his email address, but thank you caruso for your opinion.

 

[pokeraddict]

I agree, you rarely see this group denying the posts, usually its a "We'll look into it" or its "We screwed up" Add 1 more to the list, phone calls at 6:30am to my house, in clear violation of law here in the US. This was to "discuss" the firepay issue where firepay supposedly didnt pay them even though firepay said everything was ok. Like calling my house before sunrise would make firepay give them them the money if they really never got it.

 

[spearmaster]

Duh...

Wim - tell your support people to use some common sense... sheesh... wake me up at 6:30 in the morning and you'd have to pay at least double what you owed for the inconvenience.

 

[jetset]

Absolutely. The more I read this now extended thread the more I get this feeling that most of these issues are the result of screw-ups or inadequate supervision in casino admin rather than rank dishonesty.

That doesn't make these events any less frustrating for the affected players, and it certainly doesn't help to attract new business but hopefully Wim and his management team are reacting to the facts published here by improving efficiencies at their casinos.

 

[fortunelounge]

jamesdean: With immediate effect, cash ins will be refunded back to Neteller regardless of the time the player has played with us.

jinnia: We are investigating why the promotion was only sent out this weekend. It seems like an old one to me that shouldn't have been sent.

johhnydemp: We do not require documentation from players to prove how they funded their Neteller account any more- only when we have enough reason to suspect fraud.

In terms of receiving unwanted mail, we will unsubscribe any player who does not wish to receive any more promotions from us. It is unfortunately also true that a large volume of mails are sent out by third parties and we do not have any control of their databases or the unsubscribe processes they use. Should anyone receive any mail from a publisher they have unsubscribed from, please forward me a copy of the promotion and I will investigate why you have received it.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[spearmaster]

Wim -

What about early-morning phone calls? Email and spam I can deal with, even if it is unwanted.

Waking me up early in the morning I cannot deal with. For me, this would be the straw that broke the camel's back.

That's just an opinion, mind you. I haven't played at FL for a while now after twice encountering Chad.

 

[The Dude]

Early morning phonecalls would bum me out. I would be leery of letting CS reps make these calls. Time zones, spouses, and little kids could cause this thing to backfire.

BTW, I was playing at 7Sultans this weekend, so not all hope is lost

 

[fortunelounge]

spearmaster:

Although we have an outbound team they do not work the hours in which pokeraddict received the call. The call was made by a person who handles charge back recoveries and should not, perhaps, have been made at that time of the morning. The issue has been addressed with the relevant staff members.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[jamesdean]

FL, I assure you you did send me a cheque after requesting to be paid by neteller. I called your customer service and was told I had to be a member of the casino for 3 months before my cashins would be sent to the option of my choice. Also, at least 3 other friends of mine have recieved the same reply so please do not patronize me with quick answers. Maybe it is time to get your CS in order, they appear to be inefficient and uninformed.

 

[jamesdean]

"Jamesdean: With immediate effect, cash ins will be refunded back to Neteller regardless of the time the player has played with us."

-FL

Sorry, I miss read your answer, hopefully you will in the future actually pay people where they want to be paid.

 

[pokeraddict]

To add to my earlier post, i did get what I felt like was a sincere apology for their employees decision to call my house so early. Hopefully noone else will get such a phone call since it has been addressed.

 

[murder1]

Okay is this acceptable?

5:30 AM Phone Rang: Hello!!!
PHL: Hello Mr. Lillipop, I am calling you on behalf of your account with PHL Casino. Did Awaken you sir?
LP: YES!!!
PHL: GOOD! :&lt;,) We are going to forfeit your payment because we feel that your picture doesn't like the ones that comes from Charm's.
LP: What? I have been a sucker all my life and that ID is 100% from TOOTSIE!!!!
PHL: Look here We had our special Fraud Team to take alook at your wrapper and its has been determine that you are a fraud!
LP: WHAT????
PHL: You heard what I said!! You are a G-D Fraud!
LP: Excuse ME???
PHL: We are going to refund your deposit and forfeit your winnings!
LP: I Assure you that...
PHL: Look HERE! You mother-suckers are all the same with this crap! I am tired of you and your fraudulent wrappers. Now I have made my decision and that final.
LP: Wait...
PHL: &gt;,click&lt;,

30 minutes later...Phone Rings!

LP: HELLO!?!?!
PHL: Hello, This is Blah Say Blah calling from PHL Casino and we see that you have open an account with us and would like to interest you in a 25% deposit bonus.

(LMAO)

 

[whitteyford]

Are we not hearing the same apologetic cry we get once a month from FL claiming they have revampt their policies?

Although I aplaud them from making the effort, I can't see why anyone would want to play there due to their overwhelming number of comlaints.

I myself went through an absolute debacle with FL, fortunately I was aware of this site and with CM's help resolved the issue.

I wonder though how many players face these same issues but are unable to find resolution because they are unaware of such great sites as CM, and thus FL gets away with taking that player for a ride.

God knows that trying to talk civily with one of their CS reps is near impossible when a problem abounds, they are thicker skulled then Arturo Gati.

I only wish I could trust playing at FL because they do offer some of the best weekly bonuses, but I cannot make myself deposit when every month I see an enormous issue, with some player being mistreated.

I'm sorry but their are just too many other casinos out there that offer far superior service.

 

[spearmaster]

should not, perhaps, have been made at that time of the morning

Try should not, period. I have had calls at around midnight from Chad, though this was over a year ago.

Perhaps the office should make like an airport and hang up a clock for every time zone on their walls...

Sorry for being sarcastic. But this is a total no-brainer. If a Vegas casino called me to ask me if I would like a free trip at 6 in the morning, I would reply that I plan never to visit their establishment again.

Reminds me of "penny-wise, pound-foolish".

 

[sirius]

Okay.

Fortune Lounge had already processed the additional refund of $230 to johnnydemp's account before I received his documentation. This amount, together with the $1,000 that was refunded before is the full amount he cashed in.

Case closed.

FL did give him the benefit of the doubt and even attempted to get his bank to verify his card, but the bank declined to verify anything which left the casino with no option but to go with their original assessment and decision.

I hope that everyone realizes that this industry is in the fetal stage. Casinos are becoming more popular and accepted by the public as a whole; thus becoming not only more populated with good honest players, but hit up by fraudsters and syndicates as well.

Casinos protect themselves just as you would if you were operating your own cyber-business.

The VP of operations is now personally reviewing every single account that is locked for suspicious documentation. In the last few days he has already reversed a few decisions and had accounts re-opened. If anyone has an issue such as johnnydemp's, it will get his full and urgent attention and unless they are more than 60% sure that they have received fraudulent documentation, they will give the player the benefit of doubt.

As of now, they handle about 60,000 customer contacts in their call center per month. This is via e-mail and phone contacts. Hopefully this will put things into a better perspective. Players will have problems; players will make mistakes. Customer service reps will make mistakes as well. There are a few players that have been critical of my support for the FL group, but I understand that the small percentage of complaints (there will always be complaints) does not warrant being dragged out into the street and shot.

Responsiveness and cooperation are what makes a good business tick. I hope most of you will understand this.

I still think it strange that he wasn't notified about the reasons for Fortune Lounge trying to keep his whole deposit and winnings. I found a link to this thread after looking for some info on carnival casino on winneronline meassage board and came accross the 'unnofficial WOL blacklist' thread:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

A player once complained to me about FL. They refunded his deposit to Neteller finally months after he played but the winnings were never sent. He was even supposed to be in a Russian syndicate when he was actually in Canada. Fortune Lounge's explanation didn't make sense then either.

 

[Rambler]

7 Sultans or Satans =s Fortune Lounge

Fortune Lounge is legitimate in that they do pay. However, I don't play there for several reasons. For example, they telemarket me by phone incessently and have I asked them not to do anymore. Unofortunatley, what part of no don't they understand. Also, they, like most on line casinos, never ever try to give you a member of management when you have a gripe , even when you spend thousands in their casino . I play between 4 and 7k US dollars per month in on line casinos as a hobby and win back, on average 20 percent. I gauge a casino more or less on how well they answer my questions when I call and how quickly they pay me when I win. My last criteria is how they honor their bonus offer. I try new casinos on their bonus. If they don't pay as they say, I don't play (their again). I have to say one thing, and I echo this over and over and would like Bryan to chime in on this one. Perhaps, we need some international regulation of on line gaming. Too much of this is like the wild west show (ie I get paid when I scream). I love several casinos in which I have accounts and a great realtionship with, including, Lucky Nugget, Jackpot City, the Havana Club, The Gaming Club, etc. Unfortunately, even in these great casinos, there have been problems. For example, Lucky Nugget sent me a a matching bonus a few months back( second instance by the way!). I didn't get it and when I called, the rep actually tried to argue with me that I applied for it an hour early. When I asked her if she understood Grenwich mean time (GMT) (The International time standard) and that I was in Florida and too check the real time, she said her computers were flawless and I am wrong about the time, even though I stated I was watching CNN International in real time had the same time I quoted her was on my televsion as we spoke,lol. (I wish this was actually funny to argue about time a bonus, HELLO!). Of course, she wasnt privy to see CNN interntational, lol, or so she said. After several hours and a few calls later, the final CSR I talked to laughed and said, we should give you your bonus, what does an hour difference really mean anyway, lol. She stated finally that somehow their computers were off somehow (HMMM). The reason I bring this up is this simple fact: I win in this casino often (it is one of my favorites on line for fairness) and they pay. Why in the hell do all of us have to beg for decent service; Isn't there in ISO or something like it that can be established. Perhaps, Casinomeister, you can set up a thread for those of us that pay and play and don't get management, to have to explain in detail (ie excuses) why they are so hard to get answers from, like CRS. It is a traiining issue pure and simple. In Japan and the US, your CSRS are your front line. I would request we set up a forum explicitly for customer service issues and why a casino won't divulge any Management information ( like how to go to the next level beyond the CSR , etc), except for begging or threatening to go to Casinomeister like I had to do with US Casino (who is fair, by the way, and I have played there since, even this evening ,but still wonder why they don't put management on the phone or offer a callback when requested and they are certainly not ALONE!). Perhaps, we need a gaming control commission with international power, regulated by the Hague( Lots of casino taxes, lol), or the casinos can get way better at service before they are forced to do so by governnments. Peace and beers to all.

 

[fortunelounge]

valton: You are most welcome to contact me directly, should you experience any problems.

There is no reason whatsoever why you should not be able to speak to a Manager except that we are in the office between 08:00 GMT+2 and around 19:00 GMT+2.

If I am not in the office, you are welcome to mail me at [email protected] and I will get back to you as soon as I can.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge Group