Comments Welcome ex-Chancellor Wants to Raise Online Gaming Tax From 21% to 50%

[dunover]

Gordon Brown, UK chancellor of the exchequer in the Blair years 1997-2008 and who was in charge when the banking crisis hit at the end of that period, today recommended Rachel Reeves raise an extra £3.2bn from increasing Gaming Duty on the 'undertaxed' UK online gambling industry.

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Reeves is already overseeing punitive tax and NI costs and yet due in part to welfare increases is facing a monster shortfall (black hole) of £41bn this autumn.

The think tank suggested increasing taxes on online casinos from 21% to 50% and raising those on slots and gaming machines, from 20% to 50%.

OMG.

 

[L&L-Jan]

Well lets do that: stimulate unregulated gambling!!

Holland had the same idea. So they did. From 29 in 2 fases towards 38%.

What do operators do:
Lower RTP, Lower odds, less promotions, cheaper promotions.
Result: a product offering that is shit.

Unregulated gambling on the opposite, they benefit. Because players chase the best RTP/Odds/Offers.

So Holland aimed at getting 100mio extra in gambling taxes. Result, it will be a 40 million negative. They lost taxes on the concept they expected to gain taxes.

Terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

 

[dunover]

Well lets do that: stimulate unregulated gambling!!

Holland had the same idea. So they did. From 29 in 2 fases towards 38%.

What do operators do:
Lower RTP, Lower odds, less promotions, cheaper promotions.
Result: a product offering that is shit.

Unregulated gambling on the opposite, they benefit. Because players chase the best RTP/Odds/Offers.

So Holland aimed at getting 100mio extra in gambling taxes. Result, it will be a 40 million negative. They lost taxes on the concept they expected to gain taxes.

Terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

The thing is, without getting into too much politics, the last election kicked out a hapless government and replaced it with a hopeless government.

Back in the 1980's the generally respected chancellor under Thatcher, Ken Clarke, identified the diminishing returns on for example whisky duty and income tax where once they exceeded a certain level, returns fell. When top rate income tax was reduced over time from 90% to 40%, revenues actually rose as less people avoided it or went abroad. When whisky duty was frozen, revenues went up slightly.

Lessons seem to have been forgotten about diminishing returns, so these unfunny comedians will learn the hard way, at all our expense.

 

[maxd]

Well, with a certain orange fellow hitting everything in sight with the tariffs and taxes stick it’s not much of a surprise to hear that same call from, shall we say, dustier corners of the political "elite”.

It has been my observation recently that popular and populist ideas waft through the political class more or less unhindered by fact, history, reason or good sense. They just do it because the other guy is doing it and seems to be catching good air-time because of it: it’s "monkey see, monkey do” in its purest form. Being largely immune to the consequences they really couldn’t give a damn whether the ideas are good, bad, ineffectual or bat-shit crazy. When the winds of change blow from a different direction their noses will lift, sniff the "great new thing", and policies will change as quickly as their flags can flop and ripple and fly on the new breeze.

But I suppose such comments belong elsewhere on these good forums so my apologies to all, best to do as I say not as I do, in this particular case at least.

- Max

 

[satchnz]

Gordon Brown, UK chancellor of the exchequer in the Blair years 1997-2008 and who was in charge when the banking crisis hit at the end of that period, today recommended Rachel Reeves raise an extra £3.2bn from increasing Gaming Duty on the 'undertaxed' UK online gambling industry.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Reeves is already overseeing punitive tax and NI costs and yet due in part to welfare increases is facing a monster shortfall (black hole) of £41bn this autumn.

The think tank suggested increasing taxes on online casinos from 21% to 50% and raising those on slots and gaming machines, from 20% to 50%.

OMG.

Feature request: A “what the fuck” emoji/reaction.

 

[dunover]

Feature request: A “what the fuck” emoji/reaction.

is the nearest....

 

[steveh35]

Feature request: A “what the fuck” emoji/reaction.

 

[slot_zombie]

88% RTP across the board incoming, UK facing casinos close their doors en masse, FS promos 10 x 1p single line spins on BOD with 50x WR max cashout 50p.

Result, more casual players just give up on the games, and a good chunk of the more resilient player base moves to Crypto. As Dunover stated, revenues will reduce. It's like being governed by small children!

As for gaming machines, they are already on rock bottom percentages so not much room for reduction before they become utterly unplayable (some would argue their £500 machines are already unplayable on 90%), so I expect a lot of arcades would close too. More people on the dole, less local and national taxes, less machines being manufactured and less people playing, so again.. completely self defeating.

 

[steveh35]

88% RTP across the board incoming, UK facing casinos close their doors en masse, FS promos 10 x 1p single line spins on BOD with 50x WR max cashout 50p.

Result, more casual players just give up on the games, and a good chunk of the more resilient player base moves to Crypto. As Dunover stated, revenues will reduce. It's like being governed by small children!

Gordon Brown isn't the chancellor or part of the government so there is no indication Rachel Thieves is even considering this so calm down dear.

 

[dunover]

Gordon Brown isn't the chancellor or part of the government so there is no indication Rachel Thieves is even considering this so calm down dear.

One would hope she doesn't, but heavyweights from previous administrations do tend to have the ear of the current one and advise them. If she thinks it's a free hit she would be mad not to consider it when you look at the deficit right now.

This thread wasn't intended to be political; the specific clown within the circus troupe who performs the mad routine isn't really pertinent to us, rather the potential effect on our hobby, interest and industry if you work within it.

And I can only see it going very wrong in many ways.

 

[interlog]

Rachel from accounts will do whatever she needs to do to get some cash coming in and at the same time keep the loony left of her party happy, so by that reasoning this proposal will make a lot of sense to her. The Guardian will cream in their pants too to boot

 

[Lemon]

They want to focus on the Merkur and Admiral gaming centres that are infesting every high-street in the UK first. People-smugglers and drug-dealers can sit in those places and row thousands through those games in a week uncontested save for a leaflet being handed to them out of nothing but staff obligation.

 

[andysbetting1187]

They want to focus on the Merkur and Admiral gaming centres that are infesting every high-street in the UK first. People-smugglers and drug-dealers can sit in those places and row thousands through those games in a week uncontested save for a leaflet being handed to them out of nothing but staff obligation.

You would think from a business perspective, the drug dealers would work with the people smugglers and bring both products over at the same time, cutting overheads like fuel/time etc.

Joking aside, its kind of irrelevant - I think we will all get shafted from a tax perspective in Autumn

 

[satchnz]

88% RTP across the board incoming, UK facing casinos close their doors en masse, FS promos 10 x 1p single line spins on BOD with 50x WR max cashout 50p.

Result, more casual players just give up on the games, and a good chunk of the more resilient player base moves to Crypto. As Dunover stated, revenues will reduce. It's like being governed by small children!

As for gaming machines, they are already on rock bottom percentages so not much room for reduction before they become utterly unplayable (some would argue their £500 machines are already unplayable on 90%), so I expect a lot of arcades would close too. More people on the dole, less local and national taxes, less machines being manufactured and less people playing, so again.. completely self defeating.

What I fear is that if 88% becomes the norm in regulated markets, what’s to stop the crypto casinos from offering 92% games as “the highest RTP” in the industry?

 

[lockinlove]

What I fear is that if 88% becomes the norm in regulated markets, what’s to stop the crypto casinos from offering 92% games as “the highest RTP” in the industry?

The gaming industry will die. People already despise 94% rtp and notice a huge difference. Go even lower, the slots become totally unplayable and unenjoyable.

Right now online is hanging on because gamblers go to landbased and realize how bad the returns are there so they have a better experience online and find the 96%. Hell even the 94% is better than landbased.

Online casinos do not offer dining rooms, buffets, hotels and a funner atmosphere. You would literally be signing on to throw away money and not have fun.

It wont end well.


The problem is politicians look at one thing. Revenue. They have no idea or care of what players enjoy and appreciate. They see a way to cut something, expect everything to stay the same and yay new revenue stream. Until it isnt because players leave en masse.

This is the sign of a dumb politician. I actually think all idiot politicians should have to wear orange spray tan so we can spot the low IQ ones.

 

[dunover]

The gaming industry will die. People already despise 94% rtp and notice a huge difference. Go even lower, the slots become totally unplayable and unenjoyable.

Right now online is hanging on because gamblers go to landbased and realize how bad the returns are there so they have a better experience online and find the 96%. Hell even the 94% is better than landbased.

Online casinos do not offer dining rooms, buffets, hotels and a funner atmosphere. You would literally be signing on to throw away money and not have fun.

It wont end well.


The problem is politicians look at one thing. Revenue. They have no idea or care of what players enjoy and appreciate. They see a way to cut something, expect everything to stay the same and yay new revenue stream. Until it isnt because players leave en masse.

This is the sign of a dumb politician. I actually think all idiot politicians should have to wear orange spray tan so we can spot the low IQ ones.

Unnecessary - simply wait until they open their mouths.

 

[Jono777]

21% to 50% (insert WTF emoji ;p)

Why not 21% to 25% if at all, fucking GREED strikes again.

I feel RTP won't come into it, even the hardcore addicts with half a brain cell will run a mile when £20 is repeatedly gone in less than 5 minutes.

Just shut up shop and be done with UK players

 

[megadam]

Gordon Brown, UK chancellor of the exchequer in the Blair years 1997-2008 and who was in charge when the banking crisis hit at the end of that period, today recommended Rachel Reeves raise an extra £3.2bn from increasing Gaming Duty on the 'undertaxed' UK online gambling industry.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Reeves is already overseeing punitive tax and NI costs and yet due in part to welfare increases is facing a monster shortfall (black hole) of £41bn this autumn.

The think tank suggested increasing taxes on online casinos from 21% to 50% and raising those on slots and gaming machines, from 20% to 50%.

OMG.

Gordan Brown being a bigot? No I'm shocked, I only thought he called others that not be one himself.

As everyone else has pointed out, grind the taxes higher and the revenues will eventually slow down. The self-employed market in the UK's pretty much been killed thanks to the insane legislation, red tape and financial risk of non-compliance. Pretty much our template for anything we do and we wonder why we struggle. Insanity.

 

[geordiecolin]

Gordan Brown being a bigot? No I'm shocked, I only thought he called others that not be one himself.

As everyone else has pointed out, grind the taxes higher and the revenues will eventually slow down. The self-employed market in the UK's pretty much been killed thanks to the insane legislation, red tape and financial risk of non-compliance. Pretty much our template for anything we do and we wonder why we struggle. Insanity.

If RTP goes down to sub 92% I will use every tool at my disposal to prevent myself from ever playing another online slot. But in doing so it will mean I will have to go to a bricks and mortar bookies each day to stick my horseracing and football bets on.
It would feel like the nanny state kerbing how we spend our money by stealth.

 

[megadam]

If RTP goes down to sub 92% I will use every tool at my disposal to prevent myself from ever playing another online slot. But in doing so it will mean I will have to go to a bricks and mortar bookies each day to stick my horseracing and football bets on.
It would feeling like the nanny state kerbing how we spend our money by stealth.

And then it won't be long till there's an ex-gamblers anti-gambling tax. Oi what's that, you don't wanna spend on 88% RTP book of dead or heaven forbid if it ever comes about a sub 90% RTP version of Bonanza, tough shit here's another tax!

 

[dunover]

The problem I foresee if this comes to fruition, is you will get cost cutting by UK-facing casinos and this would mainly be achieved via reduced RTP as bonuses would still need to be offered in some form.

Then you smash through online casinos' main USP in that their games pay more and are more varied than those you will find land-based.

Further down the line, land-based would then be targeted to take up the slack when online revenue dwindles.

 

[Flyer187]

Gonna tax the UK back into the stone age

 

[geordiecolin]

In the UK we pay Income tax, National insurance, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, VAT, Stamp duty land tax,Council tax, Car tax,Air passenger tax, Insurance premium tax, corporate tax, buisness rates, employer NIC's.Customs duties and landfill taxes. These equate for around 57% of income paid back to the government in taxes.
Then we have to pay rent/mortgages ,loans for cars,buy food,education,transport,clothing,lighting and heating.
At one point in my lifetime a postman could pay for all of the above and run a home with a stay home wife and a few kids and have a holiday.
Where better looked after slaves really much worse off?

 

[justdoit]

Well lets do that: stimulate unregulated gambling!!

Holland had the same idea. So they did. From 29 in 2 fases towards 38%.

What do operators do:
Lower RTP, Lower odds, less promotions, cheaper promotions.
Result: a product offering that is shit.

Unregulated gambling on the opposite, they benefit. Because players chase the best RTP/Odds/Offers.

So Holland aimed at getting 100mio extra in gambling taxes. Result, it will be a 40 million negative. They lost taxes on the concept they expected to gain taxes.

Terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

I dont think GOV care about players or casinos, as longest they get money

 

[slot_zombie]

In the UK we pay Income tax, National insurance, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, VAT, Stamp duty land tax,Council tax, Car tax,Air passenger tax, Insurance premium tax, corporate tax, buisness rates, employer NIC's.Customs duties and landfill taxes. These equate for around 57% of income paid back to the government in taxes.
Then we have to pay rent/mortgages ,loans for cars,buy food,education,transport,clothing,lighting and heating.
At one point in my lifetime a postman could pay for all of the above and run a home with a stay home wife and a few kids and have a holiday.
Where better looked after slaves really much worse off?

Parliaments of fools, for 25 years and still counting

 

[andysbetting1187]

Gonna tax the UK back into the stone age

Its already happening mate.

I earn a decent wage (not footballers wages, but a decent income for the area I live in), but the tax I pay is ridiculous. So far this year, I have paid the following:

Just under £10k in tax since April
I had £15k in vested shares from my company that I had to hold for 3 years before they matured - on maturity I had to pay 45% tax on them
50% tax on my cash bonus from work
My personal allowance has been removed completley
Due to my base salary, we get no child benefit, no help with nursery fees (luckily my lad is going to reception in September)

On top of the above, the taxman sent me a letter this week saying they think I have underpaid, and therefore require an urgent payment of £7,967.78 to be paid within the next 3 months.

 

[steveh35]

More rumours circulating about the Chancellor looking to increase the "sin" taxes including gambling, sugary foods and drinks, smoking, alcohol.

In order to remove the 2 child benefit cap a 50% tax on casinos would cover the cost.

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[andysbetting1187]

More rumours circulating about the Chancellor looking to increase the "sin" taxes including gambling, sugary foods and drinks, smoking, alcohol.

Add in vaping and massage parlours and they might as well take my entire wage off me each month.

 

[DreamRJ]

Well the vape tax is already happening in October 2026 that comes in £2.20 on 10mil nicotine.

I have been vocal about this vape tax when I first heard about it in the last budget. But basically we still do not know how that will work because the base mix for vape juice is VG and PG. Those 2 ingredients are used in food and drink products. So if they also tax the base mix and the flavour concentrates then that will mean a 100ml bottle of vape juice will cost £10 +£2.20X10 so £32.20 - the £10-£15 is current price I pay right now for pre made juice, the nic shots are not inside those bottles, so the shop I get them from throws them in for free. I only do 2mg strength so I just add 1 and a half 10ml nic shots into the 100ml bottle to make it 2mg strength.

As for this increase I really am worried if this does happen just like I am very worried how the new vape tax will work and if it will only be applied to the nic shots only. Because just imagine all the food products that use those ingredients like the VG/PG/Flavour concentrates. It will cause inflation to sky rocket over night.

Hopefully I just hope it means it does not apply to those other products and only applies to the nic shots so the shops will then just charge an extra 2.20 per 10mil nic shot instead of throwing them in for free.

But sorry for the off topic, I just wanted to reply to @andysbetting1187 who mentioned the vape tax.

Every remaining casino who currently still holds a UKGC license will probably revoke it and leave the UK market. Reason why I replied to this old thread was because I just made a thread about this proposed increased casino tax and dunover linked this thread.

 

[DreamRJ]

1 more thing - there will also be a 6 month grace period as well from 1st October 2026 to 1st April 2027. So what this means is any vape shops or other retailers that sell vape products that still have stock from before the 1st October can still sell those old products up until 1st April 2027. So it means we get some extra months while all the shops sell off their products.

I would really love to know how many vape shops will go out of business as a result of this. The few vape shops I currently use are selling already out of date juice as well. So when that time comes the juice will be even more out of date.

It is actually the nicotine that is more affected when it is old. The base mix and flavourings are not as important but the flavours can change when they steep for a very long time. Some certain flavours age very poorly and get very nasty tasting. I prefer to buy juice that is in date. But it is hard in the few vape shops I buy them from now.

I used to make my own juice at home for years, so I might just have to go back to doing that. But reading the rules on this new tax means that even buying the base ingredients and making vape juice at home would still be enforceable to be taxed by the HMRC. How this can even be enforced is beyond me really.

Will they monitor parcel deliveries? will they contact all suppliers of VG/PG/Flavourings? So they can then send those details to the police?

I mean honestly this is the wrong way to fucking do this. The main reasons so many switched to vaping is because of how much cheaper it was and because it stopped them from smoking because that is so much worse than vaping is.

I mean as we know the main ingredients are used in so many products so how can they even enforce this? New laws? New powers? New prosecutions? More big brother and nanny state?

Honestly living in the UK is becoming so bad and more and more expensive.

 

[Webzcas]

Well the vape tax is already happening in October 2026 that comes in £2.20 on 10mil nicotine.

Yep £2 on 10mls of eliquid. Ridiculous. Thankfully, I will have around 10 litres come October as I am steadily stockpiling

 

[DreamRJ]

Yep £2 on 10mls of eliquid. Ridiculous. Thankfully, I will have around 10 litres come October as I am steadily stockpiling

Yeah but VG/PG does degrade and it does have a best before date on it. I am very fussy with dates and I really do not like using out of date juice or base mix.

I used to make my own juice too. I still got some old bottles of the base mix VG/PG like 1 and half litres left but it is like 3 years out of date now. So I will never use it.

Do you think they will enforce or send police knocking on your doors if the suppliers pass the details onto the HMRC? when you purchase those base ingredients from them?

In my honest opinion they have gone about this all wrong. They should have only taxed the nicotine shots. Maybe make the tax on the shots even more expensive like £5 for a 10ml nic shot tax. That would have been a lot better and cheaper. But no they just want to make us all struggle even more by forcing us to pay crazy amount of extra tax.

I did the maths for my current usage. so it costs me £50 right now, it would cost me £151.20 once the new tax comes into force. That is an increase of £101.20 extra each month. the £101.20 is the 400ml vape juice + 60ml nic shots so 460 = 46X2.20 +£50 for the actual pre made juice on top. because I basically buy 4X 100ml bottles each month.

I will not be able to afford this. That would not even be that much cheaper than going back to smoking again which I will never ever do. I might have to find other alternatives like nicotine pouches or something.

 

[Webzcas]

That it does sadly. Where I get my concentrate from, it costs me £23 for half a litre plus 20 free 18mg nic shots. For 700ml, that is brilliant value.

Back in 2016 I bought 2 litres of 72mg Nicotine prior to the TPD coming into force.

However, this vape tax will destroy pretty much 90% of the high street outlets. Vape sales will go back to online only.

 

[DreamRJ]

That it does sadly. Where I get my concentrate from, it costs me £23 for half a litre plus 20 free 18mg nic shots. For 700ml, that is brilliant value.

Back in 2016 I bought 2 litres of 72mg Nicotine prior to the TPD coming into force.

However, this vape tax will destroy pretty much 90% of the high street outlets. Vape sales will go back to online only.

Yeah I agree - I hated ordering online because I have crazy sleep patterns and I hate ordering incase I am asleep and I miss it - so I usually ordered things to my dads address. But that is no longer an option for me because my dad's health is really bad now. So I do not want to burden him anymore with me ordering things to his address.

I could then maybe get a PO box but again that is costly and expensive option I can not afford. I do not get on or trust my neighbours either.

That is why I started buying pre made juice again from my local shops.

Another issue I found was when I used to buy the flavour concentrates from certain sites. There is not many that sell them now either. But when I got them they was usually close to the best before date or already expired. So that is also why I hated it.

 

[andysbetting1187]

Yeah I agree - I hated ordering online because I have crazy sleep patterns and I hate ordering incase I am asleep and I miss it - so I usually ordered things to my dads address. But that is no longer an option for me because my dad's health is really bad now. So I do not want to burden him anymore with me ordering things to his address.

I could then maybe get a PO box but again that is costly and expensive option I can not afford. I do not get on or trust my neighbours either.

That is why I started buying pre made juice again from my local shops.

Another issue I found was when I used to buy the flavour concentrates from certain sites. There is not many that sell them now either. But when I got them they was usually close to the best before date or already expired. So that is also why I hated it.

Check out everything liquid mate (just google it, not sure if I could post the link) - they often have sales on (the flash sales on larger concentrate bottles are well worth buying - at 1 litre for £12 even if its not great just bin it at that price) and their concentrates are really good. I have just had delived a litre or red energy concentrate, a litlre of blackcurrant aniseed and two litres of 72mg nicotine (nicotine has gone straight in my freezer)

I am a heavy vaper but will easily get over a year out of those concentrates alone - I keep the concentrates i my wardrobe at home where it is cool (and now smells quite nice hahahaha).

On a different note, the taxman has decided I owe them another £1k due to interest made on savings. Quite funny as they wrote to me, and the postman delivered the letter along with one from the red cross asking for donations. Ive sent them my tax bill in the prepaid envelope and asked them if they can donate anything to cover that.

 

[09237653]

if I'm not getting max rtps I'm not playing at all, also this tax will apparently kill off all high street bookie shops (so one positive) and even all the seaside arcades (which I guess is partly their own fault for removing all the arcade games and replacing every available square foot with gambling machines)

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

Bumping this thread on a day which could change the future of regulated online gambling….

 

[L&L-Jan]

Bumping this thread on a day which could change the future of regulated online gambling….

im betting on 25-27%

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

im betting on 25-27%

I think more like 30-35.

 

[dunover]

I say 40%, 35 at lowest.

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

Apparently the Office of Budget Responsibility have published budget early in error. Sky news saying online gaming to raise 1.2billion it said but they haven’t said how % much it goes up.

 

[Webzcas]

The OBR have pretty much leaked all the Budget Measures prior to Reeves announcing them after PMQ's this afternoon. One that sticks out for us that enjoy the gambling industry is the following:

Taxes hiked on gambling as new duty introduced - and will raise £1.1bn​

The gambling industry is going to be taxed more, to raise more than £1bn, the chancellor will reveal in the budget.

The OBR's analysis of Rachel Reeves's budget, called the Economic and Fiscal Outlook, says that the changes to gambling taxes will raise £1.1bn.

Among the measures will be the introduction of a new rate of general betting tax for gambling online, which will be set at 25%.

Oh happy days!

 

[dunover]

Apparently the Office of Budget Responsibility have published budget early in error. Sky news saying online gaming to raise 1.2billion it said but they haven’t said how % much it goes up.

Yes, this fact is being mocked right now in parliament. It's 25% I believe, up from 20%.

 

[dunover]

Yes, this fact is being mocked right now in parliament. It's 25% I believe, up from 20%.

L&L wins the pot....

 

[Webzcas]

Ah and I just posted a new thread about this. Will merge!

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

I say 40%, 35 at lowest.

Daz get it spot on!

 

[L&L-Jan]

I say 40%, 35 at lowest.

well done

But this isn't great news, for no gambling enthusiast

 

[dunover]

well done

But this isn't great news, for no gambling enthusiast

What was it? I haven't heard yet, can't bear the woman so haven't watched. I thought it was 25% which is why I said you'd won the prize as you said 25-27%!

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

What was it? I haven't heard yet, can't bear the woman so haven't watched. I thought it was 25% which is why I said you'd won the prize as you said 25-27%!

 

[SpinUk]

40% tax is insane before you even started on corporation tax. I am sure that this will finish off the high street industry at least. Best news ever for the Crypto sites though.