Casino Complaint EuroSlots does not pay 1700EUR - Is this fair?

[palapaisti]

EuroSlots, if you confiscate my winnings, you should at least answer for the following questions:

1) You claim that I have knowingly breached your Terms & Conditions. Ok, I have to admit it might
have looked for you that I have tried to deposit from Thai IP and deposited anyway from other IP
(knowing that you tried to block it, I'm not that stupid...). But as I have told in other
messages, there was not any error message so I could have known you tried to block (I thought
my ISP was the problem). And you can check from the logs that I went to the chat to ask why I
couldn't withdraw. I really did not have any reason to think I had broken a rule. Do you still
think I knowingly breached your T&C?

2) "No play from Thailand" rule is in the "4.1. Account registration" section. As an old PlayCherry
customer I did not do the account registration process, so is it fair the use the rule for me?
PlayCherry did not have that rule so it was totally unexpected.

3) Your system let me transfer my account, login and play from Thai IP. Furthermore, I did not get
any error message when I tried to deposit from Thai IP. Do you think your security checks were
sufficient? Are you going to fix anything?

4) I guess you are the only online casino which have that rule. Why is it so important to use that
rule for me - taking into account 1)-3). Do you really think it's fair? What difference would
it have made for you if I had played from Finland?

 

[Mouche12]

EuroSlots, if you confiscate my winnings, you should at least answer for the following questions:

1) You claim that I have knowingly breached your Terms & Conditions. Ok, I have to admit it might
have looked for you that I have tried to deposit from Thai IP and deposited anyway from other IP
(knowing that you tried to block it, I'm not that stupid...). But as I have told in other
messages, there was not any error message so I could have known you tried to block (I thought
my ISP was the problem). And you can check from the logs that I went to the chat to ask why I
couldn't withdraw. I really did not have any reason to think I had broken a rule. Do you still
think I knowingly breached your T&C?


2) "No play from Thailand" rule is in the "4.1. Account registration" section. As an old PlayCherry
customer I did not do the account registration process, so is it fair the use the rule for me?
PlayCherry did not have that rule so it was totally unexpected.

3) Your system let me transfer my account, login and play from Thai IP. Furthermore, I did not get
any error message when I tried to deposit from Thai IP. Do you think your security checks were
sufficient? Are you going to fix anything?

4) I guess you are the only online casino which have that rule. Why is it so important to use that
rule for me - taking into account 1)-3). Do you really think it's fair? What difference would
it have made for you if I had played from Finland?

The fact that you're a regular customer, like ChuChu said, may turn out te be a crucial point of consideration. I would lodge a complaint with the LGA if I were you, good luck!

 

[mn001]

Casino could just block everything from Thailand. If they allow play from a thai ip the rule cant be so important.

I'm on the players side here. He didnt do a chargeback... he just played from another country.

Casino have the right to not pay you, but they will just lose other players (like me).

A warning for the player, next time no money and account closed, would be a better resolution here.

Thats my 2 cents

 

[Mouche12]

Casino could just block everything from Thailand. If they allow play from a thai ip the rule cant be so important.

I'm on the players side here. He didnt do a chargeback... he just played from another country.

Casino have the right to not pay you, but they will just lose other players (like me).

A warning for the player, next time no money and account closed, would be a better resolution here.

Thats my 2 cents

If I were a regular player and the casino would stick to their guns, I'd run away too!

 

[clees42]

Casino could just block everything from Thailand. If they allow play from a thai ip the rule cant be so important.

I'm on the players side here. He didnt do a chargeback... he just played from another country.

Casino have the right to not pay you, but they will just lose other players (like me).

A warning for the player, next time no money and account closed, would be a better resolution here.

Thats my 2 cents

I agree. If i had casino account there i would close it right about now.
Considering that the money moved from bank in finland to the casino, i dont see why there should be so strict rules.
Beside its pretty unfair to have the rule only at the registration terms, because people only look at those when they first create account,
And this could be years before taking any trips abroud.

This could have happened to me also.
I always just see the terms if my home country is eligible or not .
I have never checked again while playing during a trip to asia.

 

[Nifty29]

EuroSlots, if you confiscate my winnings, you should at least answer for the following questions:

1) You claim that I have knowingly breached your Terms & Conditions. Ok, I have to admit it might
have looked for you that I have tried to deposit from Thai IP and deposited anyway from other IP
(knowing that you tried to block it, I'm not that stupid...). But as I have told in other
messages, there was not any error message so I could have known you tried to block (I thought
my ISP was the problem). And you can check from the logs that I went to the chat to ask why I
couldn't withdraw. I really did not have any reason to think I had broken a rule. Do you still
think I knowingly breached your T&C?

2) "No play from Thailand" rule is in the "4.1. Account registration" section. As an old PlayCherry
customer I did not do the account registration process, so is it fair the use the rule for me?
PlayCherry did not have that rule so it was totally unexpected.

3) Your system let me transfer my account, login and play from Thai IP. Furthermore, I did not get
any error message when I tried to deposit from Thai IP. Do you think your security checks were
sufficient? Are you going to fix anything?

4) I guess you are the only online casino which have that rule. Why is it so important to use that
rule for me - taking into account 1)-3). Do you really think it's fair? What difference would
it have made for you if I had played from Finland?

When you create a casino account, you agree to abide by the terms and conditions, and that these may change at any time, and that it is your responsibility to keep abreast of them.

The casino is within its rights to take the action they did, and no complaint service is going to rule in your favour, as you have openly admitted playing from a country where PLAY is not allowed. What's more, you changed to a VPN when your deposit didn't go through from the Thai IP ( where the software was probably blocking it).

You may think it is unfair, and IMO it is short sighted on the casinos part as they have lost a legitimate customer from an allowed country. However, my opinion and anyone else's is immaterial, as you clearly broke the rules....not knowing the rules is not a defence.....just ask any judge.

If the rule was unclear or not posted on the website, then I agree you would have a case. Since they were posted and were explicit, then you do not.

The casino has made a commercially stupid but technically correct decision in this case.

Its a timely warning for all members travelling overseas to check with the casinos at which they wish to play whilst away, and get the go-ahead for that specific country/s IN WRITING before you leave....this way, if they try to stiff you, they can be called out in public and hung out to dry.

 

[EuroSlots]

EuroSlots, if you confiscate my winnings, you should at least answer for the following questions:

1) You claim that I have knowingly breached your Terms & Conditions. Ok, I have to admit it might
have looked for you that I have tried to deposit from Thai IP and deposited anyway from other IP
(knowing that you tried to block it, I'm not that stupid...). But as I have told in other
messages, there was not any error message so I could have known you tried to block (I thought
my ISP was the problem). And you can check from the logs that I went to the chat to ask why I
couldn't withdraw. I really did not have any reason to think I had broken a rule. Do you still
think I knowingly breached your T&C?

2) "No play from Thailand" rule is in the "4.1. Account registration" section. As an old PlayCherry
customer I did not do the account registration process, so is it fair the use the rule for me?
PlayCherry did not have that rule so it was totally unexpected.

3) Your system let me transfer my account, login and play from Thai IP. Furthermore, I did not get
any error message when I tried to deposit from Thai IP. Do you think your security checks were
sufficient? Are you going to fix anything?

4) I guess you are the only online casino which have that rule. Why is it so important to use that
rule for me - taking into account 1)-3). Do you really think it's fair? What difference would
it have made for you if I had played from Finland?

As previously stated, our security system had noticed failed deposit attempts from a Thai IP which were correctly blocked from our side. A deposit was then only successful due to the fact that a VPN was used that hid your current location.
Our rules are in the terms and conditions to be adhered to, if you would have contacted us immediately when the deposit/s failed instead of proceeding hiding your location behind a VPN, we would have been able to inform you why they had failed.

Once again I would like to emphasize the fact that if a VPN was never used, there would be no deposits = no gameplay.

As for the 4.1 Account registration section, we presented the new terms and conditions of EuroSlots, where it is clear that activity from Thailand is not allowed. Essentially it’s up to each and every player to make sure they are aware of the terms and conditions when playing at a site.
If a customer did not wish to proceed with the migration there was the option to opt out. By accepting the migration, customers also accepted to adhere to the new terms and conditions.

Your account was registered in Finland and not in Thailand, hence it was migrated. Then it’s up to each and every player to fully understand our terms and conditions.

Our rules are here to be followed, and while I do understand the frustration we need to apply the rules in the way they are stated.

This is our final decision and you do have the right to take it further to LGA if you deem it appropriate.
Should you require any further information, please contact us directly.

Fredrik

 

[palapaisti]

As previously stated, our security system had noticed failed deposit attempts from a Thai IP which were correctly blocked from our side. A deposit was then only successful due to the fact that a VPN was used that hid your current location.
Our rules are in the terms and conditions to be adhered to, if you would have contacted us immediately when the deposit/s failed instead of proceeding hiding your location behind a VPN, we would have been able to inform you why they had failed.
Once again I would like to emphasize the fact that if a VPN was never used, there would be no deposits = no gameplay.

Did I get any kind of message so I could have seen your system tried to block my deposit? Of course I would have contacted you if I had got. And your support was not able to tell why my withdrawal failed so I don't think it would have known about the deposit too.

As for the 4.1 Account registration section, we presented the new terms and conditions of EuroSlots, where it is clear that activity from Thailand is not allowed. Essentially it’s up to each and every player to make sure they are aware of the terms and conditions when playing at a site.
If a customer did not wish to proceed with the migration there was the option to opt out. By accepting the migration, customers also accepted to adhere to the new terms and conditions.

Hmm, is it clear for players who do not need to register? Why would they read about account registration process?

Our rules are here to be followed, and while I do understand the frustration we need to apply the rules in the way they are stated.

Please clarify this little bit. Why do you need to apply this kind of rule? The most important thing here for the fairness is what's the difference for you if I had played from Finland instead of Thailand?

This is our final decision and you do have the right to take it further to LGA if you deem it appropriate.
Should you require any further information, please contact us directly.

It's better for me to discuss about this publicly. Anyway, if you don't want to do it, you can answer me privately too. I'll wait for
your answers, but I'm pretty sure I'm complain to LGA too.

PS. You did not answer nearly any of my questions in my previous message. You might not understand what it looks like for other players when you don't want to discuss about the issue. (I'd hope you read all questions and answer to them separately)

"We have a rule, it does not have any meaning in this case, our security system did not work very well, but we do not pay anyway. Welcome to our casino!"

 

[EuroSlots]

Did I get any kind of message so I could have seen your system tried to block my deposit? Of course I would have contacted you if I had got. And your support was not able to tell why my withdrawal failed so I don't think it would have known about the deposit too.



Hmm, is it clear for players who do not need to register? Why would they read about account registration process?



Please clarify this little bit. Why do you need to apply this kind of rule? The most important thing here for the fairness is what's the difference for you if I had played from Finland instead of Thailand?



It's better for me to discuss about this publicly. Anyway, if you don't want to do it, you can answer me privately too. I'll wait for
your answers, but I'm pretty sure I'm complain to LGA too.

PS. You did not answer nearly any of my questions in my previous message. You might not understand what it looks like for other players when you don't want to discuss about the issue. (I'd hope you read all questions and answer to them separately)

"We have a rule, it does not have any meaning in this case, our security system did not work very well, but we do not pay anyway. Welcome to our casino!"

In previous communication you admitted that your deposits failed by payment provider, due to the use of Thai IP, then to get around this, you used a Swedish VPN.
However, it was not blocked by a specific payment provider; it was our system that stopped you from depositing from a restricted country.

Having this said, it would be a natural decision to contact us about the issue rather than finding a way to get around it (which we do not allow). If we pitch a scenario that a support agent could not answer it right away, it would be escalated internally and a satisfactory answer would have been provided to you.

As for the heading of the 4.1 Account registration section, I do refer to the following stated in our T&C’s:
1.1. Definitions
Clause headings are for ease of reference only and shall not affect the construction or interpretation of this Agreement.

I believe we have explained our reasoning clear enough and the decision is final.

Fredrik

 

[Casinomeister]

...So according to T&C they can confiscate my winnings...

There were no winnings - the play was voided. Sorry, you know just as well as I do that terms and conditions are there to be followed, and it is your responsibility to read them, heed them, and if there are any questions about anything, then contact their support. I don't see why you are making such a public fuss about this when it is obvious that you failed to read the terms - which are pretty crystal clear.

Quit badgering the casino rep. Thank you.

 

[chuchu59]

When you create a casino account, you agree to abide by the terms and conditions, and that these may change at any time, and that it is your responsibility to keep abreast of them.

The casino is within its rights to take the action they did, and no complaint service is going to rule in your favour, as you have openly admitted playing from a country where PLAY is not allowed. What's more, you changed to a VPN when your deposit didn't go through from the Thai IP ( where the software was probably blocking it).

You may think it is unfair, and IMO it is short sighted on the casinos part as they have lost a legitimate customer from an allowed country. However, my opinion and anyone else's is immaterial, as you clearly broke the rules....not knowing the rules is not a defence.....just ask any judge.

If the rule was unclear or not posted on the website, then I agree you would have a case. Since they were posted and were explicit, then you do not.

The casino has made a commercially stupid but technically correct decision in this case.Its a timely warning for all members travelling overseas to check with the casinos at which they wish to play whilst away, and get the go-ahead for that specific country/s IN WRITING before you leave....this way, if they try to stiff you, they can be called out in public and hung out to dry.

That basically sums it up. However, the casino, in continuously placing the blame on the OP for using a VPN, is ruling out any remote chance on a reconciliation with a regular customer in an attempt to retain the money. There is no advantage to be gained from playing in Thailand instead of Finland so the player is right to feel aggrieved by the decision though technically he is in the wrong. The continuous blame on a customer does nothing for customer relations and may put off any potential customers. The least the casino should have done is to forward the argumentin a more palatable way.

 

[clees42]

That basically sums it up. However, the casino, in continuously placing the blame on the OP for using a VPN, is ruling out any remote chance on a reconciliation with a regular customer in an attempt to retain the money. There is no advantage to be gained from playing in Thailand instead of Finland so the player is right to feel aggrieved by the decision though technically he is in the wrong. The continuous blame on a customer does nothing for customer relations and may put off any potential customers. The least the casino should have done is to forward the argumentin a more palatable way.

i agree. Its not that uncommon for some deposit options to fail for some mysterious reasons without any error message.
For example, the verified by visa doesnt work for me at 3dice, but i can deposit by any other method.
At jackpot party when i try to deposit by credit card the window simply disappiers with no explanation.
The obvious reason that anyone would think is that there is somekind of bug with the script and or combatibility issue.

I find it hard to believe that someone would knowingly bybass country ban in order to play.
That would be just stupid as its common sense that the winning would be voided.

 

[mimi26]

That basically sums it up. However, the casino, in continuously placing the blame on the OP for using a VPN, is ruling out any remote chance on a reconciliation with a regular customer in an attempt to retain the money. There is no advantage to be gained from playing in Thailand instead of Finland so the player is right to feel aggrieved by the decision though technically he is in the wrong. The continuous blame on a customer does nothing for customer relations and may put off any potential customers. The least the casino should have done is to forward the argumentin a more palatable way.

I fully agree with this, it just seems silly to lose a customer over such a pitiful amount. I for one would not deposit at this casino now but that is just my feelings on the issue

 

[palapaisti]

There were no winnings - the play was voided. Sorry, you know just as well as I do that terms and conditions are there to be followed, and it is your responsibility to read them, heed them, and if there are any questions about anything, then contact their support. I don't see why you are making such a public fuss about this when it is obvious that you failed to read the terms - which are pretty crystal clear.

Quit badgering the casino rep. Thank you.

WOW, this was something I did not expect. I thought without the VPN thing, it would have been rogue behavior from casino to confiscate winnings. I'm pretty sure that most online casinos would have paid me (no advantage playing from Thailand, no hint that I was breaking a rule).

As you are the site owner, I respect your words and quit writing to this thread. In fact, I would have quit anyway because I realized they won't change their mind. Let people vote with their money whether EuroSlots's decision was fair or not.

 

[smcinoz]

WOW, this was something I did not expect. I thought without the VPN thing, it would have been rogue behavior from casino to confiscate winnings. I'm pretty sure that most online casinos would have paid me (no advantage playing from Thailand, no hint that I was breaking a rule).

As you are the site owner, I respect your words and quit writing to this thread. In fact, I would have quit anyway because I realized they won't change their mind. Let people vote with their money whether EuroSlots's decision was fair or not.

downside to a black a white rule mate, fairness/kindness etc doesn't hold any weight

 

[vinylweatherman]

That basically sums it up. However, the casino, in continuously placing the blame on the OP for using a VPN, is ruling out any remote chance on a reconciliation with a regular customer in an attempt to retain the money. There is no advantage to be gained from playing in Thailand instead of Finland so the player is right to feel aggrieved by the decision though technically he is in the wrong. The continuous blame on a customer does nothing for customer relations and may put off any potential customers. The least the casino should have done is to forward the argumentin a more palatable way.

This should be a warning to players. NEVER just assume it is OK to play whilst on holiday.

Some casinos are the cause of this type of issue as they encourage their customers to play whilst "on the move". Many casinos now have a mobile phone version which is even easier to access than a laptop. Casinos that do this are more concerned at keeping their customers playing, rather than fully engaging with their annual holiday, business trip, etc.

To ram the point home, there should be an explicit mention of what the situation is for a player when outside their home country. It seems some casinos are happy for players to play whilst on holiday, but others not so.

Players want simple rules, so the safest simple rule is "don't play whilst abroad". If you are going to play abroad, you will need to waste loads of time checking the terms and conditions of every casino on the laptop before placing a bet - hardly worth it.

 

[Redbet-Andy]

the safest simple rule is "don't play whilst abroad".

Better still, play at any of the accredited casinos here and contact your rep before you go away to get it cleared with them.

 

[Nifty29]

WOW, this was something I did not expect. I thought without the VPN thing, it would have been rogue behavior from casino to confiscate winnings. I'm pretty sure that most online casinos would have paid me (no advantage playing from Thailand, no hint that I was breaking a rule).

As you are the site owner, I respect your words and quit writing to this thread. In fact, I would have quit anyway because I realized they won't change their mind. Let people vote with their money whether EuroSlots's decision was fair or not.

I'm off to play at Euroslots.

 

[kujis]

Odd. On their older T&C page Thailand is not listed in the disallowed countries. Not sure from what month it its, perhaps last month even. Seems almost like they added it afterwards. Odd, because it's not even a super big win that could drive a casino out of business.

 

[SirWegs]

Odd. On their older T&C page Thailand is not listed in the disallowed countries. Not sure from what month it its, perhaps last month even. Seems almost like they added it afterwards. Odd, because it's not even a super big win that could drive a casino out of business.

Out of business? The owner of Euroslots is/was the owners of Sverigeautomaten.com/norgeautomaten.com and more. They just sold all of these brands to Betsson for 289 million SEK ( 30 million euro ). So they should have some cash in their pockets

However, the casino is acting accordingly to its terms and conditions. So they have all right to do this. However I do think its strange they have this rule, why wouldnt you allow your players to play on your casino during your vacation. But in the end, you always need to follow the terms and conditions what ever they are. You dont have to agree with it, but if you sign up for it - you need to follow it.

Probably - this is an issue with the operators payment provider. They probably have a contract stating that your not allowed to have customers depositing from these countries. If they dont follow they might lose their business.

 

[akrus88]

Once again I would like to emphasize the fact that if a VPN was never used, there would be no deposits = no gameplay.

So if one would have had money in account allready and then played, it would have been allright?

 

[SirWegs]

So if one would have had money in account allready and then played, it would have been allright?

PLAYCHERRY does not accept Player registrations and / or deposits and / or play from the following countries: American Samoa, Bonaire, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, Guadeloupe, Guam, Martinique, New Caledonia, Reunion, Saint Barthelemy, Saint Martin (French), Saint Pierre and Miquelon, East Timor, United States of America, Wallis and Futuna, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Denmark, Israel, Belgium and Thailand.

 

[palapaisti]

PLAYCHERRY does not accept Player registrations and / or deposits and / or play from the following countries: American Samoa, Bonaire, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, Guadeloupe, Guam, Martinique, New Caledonia, Reunion, Saint Barthelemy, Saint Martin (French), Saint Pierre and Miquelon, East Timor, United States of America, Wallis and Futuna, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Denmark, Israel, Belgium and Thailand.

Yep, they would have let the player to play and if he had lost money, they would have kept it. If the player had won, they would have confiscated winnings. Easy and risk-free money... It would not be difficult for casino to lock account when player tries to login/play from a restricted country.

They say "PlayCherry does not accept". I interpret this so that their software do not let players to register/deposit/play from those countries. There is no penalty if player has been able to do it. I'm not native English speaker so maybe I'm wrong with this.

Most casinos have clear rules for this kind of situations. For example RedBet:

2.2 Residents of the USA, France and French territories, Denmark, Spain, Turkey, or residents in jurisdictions that prohibit online gambling cannot register as Players with Redbet.
2.4 In the event of a Player not respecting one or more of the rules as mentioned in 2.1,2.2 and 2.3, Redbet will close the account and may confiscate the available funds.

Well, this was my worst casino experience ever. As RedBet-Andy wrote to this thread, I remembered my best casino experience. On my last year's vacation in Thailand, I played at RedBet Casino and had my biggest slots win (more than 3000EUR). After I made withdrawal, they asked my documents. Documents were accepted and withdrawal received in the same day (I guess it didn't even take many hours). If I remember right, RedBet locked my account when I first time made login from Thai-IP. But after sending explanation to them, they unlocked my account fast. I can really recommend RedBet

 

[Jasminebed]

It would be best if the casino blocked all access to the casino if accessed from a disallowed country.

Although I've never tried, I understand I couldn't play 32Red while in the US, wouldn't matter if my account was funded before I went to visit.

I can't load a Rival Casino to even play in fun mode, or any of the WMS or IGT ones here at home, pretty sure Jackpot Party's customers couldn't spin away while visiting Canada.

I think it's a good idea to let a casino know if you are playing away from home base, even within the same country, and especially if out-of-country.

Palapasti, you do have my sympathy. 1700 is a pretty expensive lesson.

 

[SirWegs]

It would be best if the casino blocked all access to the casino if accessed from a disallowed country.

Although I've never tried, I understand I couldn't play 32Red while in the US, wouldn't matter if my account was funded before I went to visit.

I can't load a Rival Casino to even play in fun mode, or any of the WMS or IGT ones here at home, pretty sure Jackpot Party's customers couldn't spin away while visiting Canada.

I think it's a good idea to let a casino know if you are playing away from home base, even within the same country, and especially if out-of-country.

Palapasti, you do have my sympathy. 1700 is a pretty expensive lesson.

Well the OP has been using Virtual Tunnels to go around their system.