Is This Fair ?

[utanfu2]

I won at Inetbet.com a random jackpot of 17,000 ending with $14,000 cashout.

They denied my winnings and right after that went to change their terms to disallow my country Switzerland in the terms and condition.

When I played there Switzerland was not in the list, they added it after I win, is this fair not to pay ?

Max tried his best to help when I PAB but the casino claims they screw up in the terms and that they had a honest mistake and that by no means there is a way for them to pay my winnings although Bitcoin was used. They could though return my deposits - honest mistake in the terms , have you heard of such thing from a trusted casino ?

I thought terms and condition are terms and condition.

They told me I should have checked the law in my country before registering and it is my fault to register with them and win, are they police or a casino

Every country has laws against online gaming, so potentially they can avoid any player winnings, is that fair ?

I was a documents verified player there, they had plenty of time, they had my fax back form stating my country, they had even a photo holding the fax back form

All was ok as long as I lose, when I win all of a sudden they say sorry we can't pay you and run to change the terms.

Is this fair ?

 

[sufferinsilence]

Not fair. They should at the very least return your deposits then if they made a mistake.

But they're an RTG casino without license so they don't give a sh*t I guess.

 

[Cocochanel]

Do you take players from Denmark?

Yes



Ans maybe from Schwitserland also?

Yes

I won at Inetbet.com a random jackpot of 17,000 ending with $14,000 cashout.

They denied my winnings and right after that went to change their terms to disallow my country Switzerland in the terms and condition.

When I played there Switzerland was not in the list, they added it after I win, is this fair not to pay ?

Max tried his best to help when I PAB but the casino claims they screw up in the terms and that they had a honest mistake and that by no means there is a way for them to pay my winnings although Bitcoin was used. They could though return my deposits - honest mistake in the terms , have you heard of such thing from a trusted casino ?

I thought terms and condition are terms and condition.

They told me I should have checked the law in my country before registering and it is my fault to register with them and win, are they police or a casino

Every country has laws against online gaming, so potentially they can avoid any player winnings, is that fair ?

I was a documents verified player there, they had plenty of time, they had my fax back form stating my country, they had even a photo holding the fax back form

All was ok as long as I lose, when I win all of a sudden they say sorry we can't pay you and run to change the terms.

Is this fair ?

Funny, because I just asked Antonio from livechat and he said yes to players from Switzerland.......they should be on the blacklist here...

 

[Cocochanel]

Inetbet.eu do not have Switzerland in the list

• Can I play at iNetBet?
  If you are in one of the following countries you are not permitted to create a new account and play for real money: Azerbaijan, Costa Rica, Curacao, Djibouti, France, Germany, Iran, Iraq, Moldova, Montenegro, Myanmar, Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles, Pakistan, Russian Federation, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Zimbabwe. If it is determined that you have created a new player account from one of these excluded countries any initial deposits will be returned. It is your responsibility to determine the legality of online gaming in your local jurisdiction. If you are unsure you should seek legal council before playing for real money. Players can create accounts from any country and access the casino for fun play mode.

 

[utanfu2]

I think the live chat you did was with inetbet.eu but I played at inetbet.com. Anyway Swiss was an allowed country by the term and they admit my country was not in the list of countries that are banned and they also admit they added it right after.

They said I had to check if I am allowed to play by my country law, then why did you add it to the term if it is player responsibility ?

Anyway it is not relevany because every casino can claim on any player here sorry we wont pay you because of the law of your country

I believe such a thing to say to a player is a joke, every country has its laws against online gambling and non licensed gambling

The casino is not police and why the police casino accepted my fax back form and documents and the losses ? and why did they change the terms after I played, if it is responsibility of player dont add it at all

 

[maxd]

.... They should at the very least return your deposits then if they made a mistake.

This case was an active PAB up until recently so I know a bit about it. As I understand it the OP's deposits were returned and the casino apologized for the screw-up. The issue here is that the casino would be breaking the law if they paid the player their winnings. And yes that does matter because that could put their EU-facing operation in jeopardy.

Not saying this doesn't suck for the player -- it wasn't their fault, depending on how you look at it -- but it's not a simple "pay and be done with it" situation either.

@utanfu2 : As to the question of "why change the Terms if it is ultimately the player's responsibility?" the answer could be simple courtesy. Obviously a decent casino would want to inform their players as best they can. Yes, they made a mistake in not doing so in the first place but there you go. What's best to be done about it is really the question here.

"Every country has laws against online gaming ...". FWIW that's simply not true. Many countries do have such laws but many others don't. Your suggestion that any casino could and would use this as a dodge to avoid paying players is unrealistic.

Furthermore your implication is that that's what's happened here -- that the casino is just using a loophole to avoid paying you -- is not supported by our experience with these guys over the past 15 years. I've handled a good number of player cases with them in this time -- not unusual, it's the norm for pretty much any long-standing casino operation -- and I've never known them to cheat players or bend the rules to avoid paying. It's simply not how they operate. Yes, they can be strict in applying the Terms but not unfairly nor unreasonably IMO.

"I was a documents verified player there, they had plenty of time, they had my fax back form stating my country, they had even a photo holding the fax back form". Now there you have a good point. That's a lot of "oopsy!" on the casino's part and -- depending on the timeline of course -- not something that can or should be dismissed out of hand.

- Max

 

[LadyJelena]

@Steven Dawson

 

[maxd]

Steven has helped me with this from the beginning, but I'm not sure there's much more he can do at this point. I might be wrong but that's my current understanding of the situation.

- Max

 

[utanfu2]

@Steven Dawson

I have just sent Steven a private message. What they did to me is unreal. online casinos are based on trust and they breached the trust.

I played in many RTG without any issue, this casino is not even licensed and they accept US players but all of sudden with they are Mama Theressa

and crying they can't pay due to them not wanting to breach the lawys of my country - come on - they are laughing at me.

 

[maxd]

@utanfu2 : They aren't laughing at you, nor are they trying to avoid paying you. You are a Swiss citizen and the laws of your country say the only legal casinos for you to play at are those that are licensed in Switzerland which ends up being a very short list of casinos. You are responsible for respecting the laws of your country. It's not the casino's responsibility to make you do that.

Did the casino screw up? Yes they did. They should have caught your nationality on that fax-back form you sent in and for that mistake they have offered a modest but reasonable settlement. You rejected that and insist on being paid in relation to that jackpot you think you won. But you were never going to receive that jackpot because you played from a country where the casino had no legal right to offer you their services. Their Terms are very clear on this: "iNetBet.com is restricted to individuals of legal age of majority ("Players") who are residents of jurisdictions where the use of iNetBet and its games ("Games") is not prohibited by law. ..." In other words -- for all intents and purposes -- there is no jackpot.

The casino returned your deposits, apologized, and offered you a fair sum for the trouble they had caused you. You rejected that and that's fine, but you've said your piece, you had your chance and that's enough. If others have things to say about this that's fine. As I say the casino had offered you what we considered a fair settlement, we recommended you take it, and you said "no". So be it but you won't be permitted to hammer away at the casino in the hopes of pressuring them to pay you something you were never entitled to.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Forum Co-Moderator, Casinomeister.com

 

[maxd]

Thread temporarily locked while I do some housekeeping. I'll re-open it ASAP.
...
Job done, re-opened.

 

[Bettingsocks]

I won at Inetbet.com a random jackpot of 17,000 ending with $14,000 cashout.

They denied my winnings and right after that went to change their terms to disallow my country Switzerland in the terms and condition.

When I played there Switzerland was not in the list, they added it after I win, is this fair not to pay ?

Max tried his best to help when I PAB but the casino claims they screw up in the terms and that they had a honest mistake and that by no means there is a way for them to pay my winnings although Bitcoin was used. They could though return my deposits - honest mistake in the terms , have you heard of such thing from a trusted casino ?

I thought terms and condition are terms and condition.

They told me I should have checked the law in my country before registering and it is my fault to register with them and win, are they police or a casino

Every country has laws against online gaming, so potentially they can avoid any player winnings, is that fair ?

I was a documents verified player there, they had plenty of time, they had my fax back form stating my country, they had even a photo holding the fax back form

All was ok as long as I lose, when I win all of a sudden they say sorry we can't pay you and run to change the terms.

Is this fair ?

Thats not fair

 

[colly]

Interesting comments Max= While I would have agreed with you on inetbet previously they have gone downhill. I stopped playing there after an atrocious experience with there sisterc asino Kudos. Was one of their original players Premium player and Australian. While I have always been paid by Inetbet , after the Kudos experience I no longer have any confidence that I would be paid in full any more- and this thread only adds to my disquiet. If they are so cautious about the rules why are they sending me we haven't seen you please play again emails every month- I am AUstralian - I assume that if I did win a jackpot I would not get paid on the same grounds as the above player. It is a pity as they used to be one of the best but now they charge high fees on withdrawals, do NOT like players who win on bonuses but happy to supply bonuses if you lose on them and monitor the play win ration to the % point.

I am happy to gamble playing but not happy to gamble on getting paid- It seems that this "rule' makes payment more of a gamble than the games.

 

[toms596]

How does the casino justify not being able to pay him for legal reasons, but also offering a settlement?

 

[orion]

They aren't laughing at you, nor are they trying to avoid paying you. You are a Swiss citizen and the laws of your country say the only legal casinos for you to play at are those that are licensed in Switzerland which ends up being a very short list of casinos. You are responsible for respecting the laws of your country. It's not the casino's responsibility to make you do that.

This is a topic that perhaps deserves deeper reflection.

The sentence /law in question is adopted by ALL regulated markets. So an Italian, Swiss, Spanish, French, Belgian, Dutch player, etc. (the list is long) when playing at any ".com" casino runs the risk of not seeing his winnings paid, bacuse of this rule.

On the other hand, these ".com" casinos consistently offer their services to players residing in these countries. Directly or indirectly (through affiliates), also here on CM. Why ? because they know we are not happy players there.

This leads to a potential short circuit that can surely become a win-win situation for some unscrupulous casinos. I'm talking in general and not about this specific casino. But the risk is there.

End of the day, this will lead to an invite to just stay in your local jurisdiction casinos.
Are we 100% sure this is what we really want ?

 

[dunover]

Ok, the casino has offered settlement, but this reminds me of the old EMSEB (Every Matrix Self-Exclusion Bullshit). That meant that players who were excluded from ONE casino under their license would be able to play at others - of course, until they won! whereupon at that juncture they were informed they couldn't be paid as they were SE'd under another brand. If they complained enough they would be offered deposits back, meaning a win-win situation for the EM casinos. (EM were eventually ousted from the UK) This whole mess eventually ended when the UKGC imposed license-exclusion and forbade licensees to take money from SE players in all of their properties/white labels.

I hope I'm not being over-cynical here but 'act first then seek forgiveness later' often benefits casinos so I wonder how much money has been taken from other Swiss residents who haven't won jackpots and lost their deposits? Has this unlicensed money been refunded too?

 

[Deeplay]

Interesting comments Max= While I would have agreed with you on inetbet previously they have gone downhill. I stopped playing there after an atrocious experience with there sisterc asino Kudos. Was one of their original players Premium player and Australian. While I have always been paid by Inetbet , after the Kudos experience I no longer have any confidence that I would be paid in full any more- and this thread only adds to my disquiet. If they are so cautious about the rules why are they sending me we haven't seen you please play again emails every month- I am AUstralian - I assume that if I did win a jackpot I would not get paid on the same grounds as the above player. It is a pity as they used to be one of the best but now they charge high fees on withdrawals, do NOT like players who win on bonuses but happy to supply bonuses if you lose on them and monitor the play win ration to the % point.

I am happy to gamble playing but not happy to gamble on getting paid- It seems that this "rule' makes payment more of a gamble than the games.

Good point I still get yearly emails from "Emily"/ Inetbet on my birthday reminding me I have a bday ND bonus waiting for me. And a few times a year the "we have not seen you in a while" was registered their years ago / verified as UK player but stopped playing when all the changes started to kick in. So with all respect Max ... to say they made an error in the terms and cant pay - dont really cut it. And still begs the question why I am still getting emails yearly / twice yearly from Inetbet when in truth if I won they would not pay.

 

[weesie]

I remember years ago, INetBet was one of the best sites to play, very trustworthy. Shame this happens

 

[utanfu2]

1. Is it illegal for Swiss residents to play at internet casinos ? This may or may not be correct, I do not know. However, if it is right it would apply to the player, not to iNetBet, as they are licensed in Curacao, which has no such prohibition. This is why iNetBet is able to accept (and pay) players in the United States, where it is also against the law. As you were able to refund the $300 in deposits, you clearly have the ability to send money to Switzerland.

2. I told Casinomeister and Max that I disagree a casino can claim oops we screwed up with the terms.... but leave that - people here brought a huge risk to player by supporting the casino and I also raised it to Casinomeister and Max - the casino - almost every casino, has a way to avoid paying by telling the player you didn't comply with your country/county/city/family/area/nationality.... etc laws and avoid paying.

I told Casinomeister that as a online gambler you always check the terms of the casino and never the rules or laws of your country, if you start to consider the laws of your country before registerring you will end only with your country licensed casinos...leaving this option to casino to avoid paying by blaming the player not obeying the laws of his country and having any respected mediator supporting it risks the industry big time. I am not trying to look like I care about the industry now, I care about myself being paid but I can still respond to what brought above.

I remember there was a case here a casino accepted a 19 year old girl from Las Vegas while the casino accept 18+ but all of a sudden refused to pay her because the legal age is 21 in Vegas - another rediculous case that as far as I remember the casinomeister judged against the casino. It is the exact case here

3. I was asked many times by Max not to reveal the fact Inetbet offered me a deal and all of a sudden I see it here in public... well thank you Max for publishing it - it gives more power to my future complaints with them. I planned to obey what I promised and not reveal it although their offer was a joke and put them even in a more negative as they are now and when the offer is hmiliating I have the right to publish it but I decided not to do it.

4. The casinos are watching this thread I am sure, it gives them new ideas on how not to pay players and still get the option to run away from being blacklisted when they see this site let an accredited casino to behave like that.

5. I am offering all of you and myself to leave our job and open an online casino. When the player lose not a problem when she or he wins we tell them - are you crazy ? how can we pay you ? we want but we can't because online gambling is not allowed in your country and not only that - our casino will be an accredited casino in the world most famous site of gambling, I am joking of course but think about the risk it gives to industry and players.

 

[Avernite]

Surely something like this would be picked up during registration, then verification right? It's pretty convenient they spotted this only after a large win.

In saying that, given it's a jackpot win probably paid from a provider, I guess it's understandable they cannot pay the jackpot. You'd expect a rather healthy settlement amount as a gesture of goodwill which may or may not have been offered. Hope OP gets something out of it.

 

[maxd]

@utanfu2 , I've told you more than once that you are not free to keep hammering the casino on this issue. In our judgement you were offered a fair settlement for the casino's error and you rejected it. Fine, your choice, but that also closes the book on your freedom to bang on about this here at Casinomeister. Yet, as has been the case several times throughout this process, you have elected to ignore our advice and guidance. So be it: consider yourself thread-banned. If you persist by starting a new thread on this subject the ban will be extended site-wide.

For what it's worth I totally get the point that this "oops, you're from a restricted country" business could be abused to the advantage of any unscrupulous casino were it allowed to pass without remark or action taken. Two issues make that NOT applicable here:

1. Inetbet is not an unscrupulous casino. We've known these guys for many years, settled many player issues with them and have NEVER known them to behave in a predatory or manipulative manner. They do lean fairly heavily on the letter of their Terms but they also settle their issues with players fairly and quickly. Nothing about this case or the process involved deviates from what we've come to know and rely on from them.
2. this was not allowed to pass "without remark or action taken". We believed the player was not entirely at fault here, we debated the issue with the casino, came up with what we agreed was a reasonable settlement offer and presented that to the player. He rejected it outright, which of course is his prerogative. HOWEVER since that was a settlement offer we believed was fair and appropriate under the circumstances that also means that take it or leave it the issue -- for the OP at least -- ends there insofar as Casinomeister is concerned. IIRC this was made clear to the OP in previous discussions, it was stated again here (see above) and he's continued to ignore all that. Hence this post and the action taken.

Please note that none of the above applies to the general membership. This issue is not a trivial one and I fully agree debate on the subject in general is well justified.

That said I would ask readers to recognize that we did intervene, the casino did offer what we considered a reasonable settlement and while that process was not successful the effort was made to seek some compensation for the OP. I think it's fair for us to ask that this continue as a discussion of the problem in general terms, as applicable to the industry at large, and not as an ongoing attack against this particular casino.

 

[maxd]

... 3. I was asked many times by Max not to reveal the fact Inetbet offered me a deal and all of a sudden I see it here in public... well thank you Max for publishing it - it gives more power to my future complaints with them. ...

What I said in that discussion, twice, was this:

So we agree that this discussion and the details contained herein will remain private, yes?

As far as I'm concerned that was a reasonable request but does not preclude me mentioning that Inetbet wanted to settle the matter.

It is true that in the initial stages I was under the mistaken impression that Inetbet wanted their involvement in a possible settlement to remain "off the record" but they corrected me on that and the discussions proceeded from there.

 

[deleted20230517]

What they did to me is unreal. online casinos are based on trust and they breached the trust.

No dude. Welcome to the world of stinky, dirty casino's where everything is about money.

The less they payout after a winning, the more profit for the casino. Simple as that.

It's like an insurance agent trying to settle in between to pay less overall.

 

[The Dude]

1. Is it illegal for Swiss residents to play at internet casinos ? This may or may not be correct, I do not know. However, if it is right it would apply to the player, not to iNetBet, as they are licensed in Curacao, which has no such prohibition. This is why iNetBet is able to accept (and pay) players in the United States, where it is also against the law. As you were able to refund the $300 in deposits, you clearly have the ability to send money to Switzerland.

Wrong. It is a state by state issue. Some states like Washington, New Jersey, Kentucky, etc., prohibit their residents from playing. Again, this is for the player to ascertain - and this is stated in their terms and conditions.

5. I am offering all of you and myself to leave our job and open an online casino. When the player lose not a problem when she or he wins we tell them - are you crazy ? how can we pay you ? we want but we can't because online gambling is not allowed in your country and not only that - our casino will be an accredited casino in the world most famous site of gambling, I am joking of course but think about the risk it gives to industry and players.

Some thanks we get for negotiating a very fair deal IMO - which you turned down much to my surprise. You are out of pocket $0 since they closed your account and refunded your deposits. You could have had a decent Christmas. But that was your choice.

No dude. Welcome to the world of stinky, dirty casino's where everything is about money.

The less they payout after a winning, the more profit for the casino. Simple as that.

It's like an insurance agent trying to settle in between to pay less overall.

How are your comments helpful here? Please reread Max's explanation on what went down. You want to talk about how "everything is about money" - well why then did the OP turn down a generous offer only wanting more?