eldoradopalace thinks A,2,3,4,5 is NOT a straight!

[dogparkaddict]

I've been playing at eldoradopalace.com (only because they are one of the only casinos that take premium sms text message for deposit) and they recently added a slightly better jacks or better video poker game that pays "8 6" compared to their old one that pays "7 5".
anyways, on this new jacks or better, ive hit at least 3 straights of A,2,3,4,5 and one STRAIGHT FLUSH of A,2,3,4,5 (on that, i was betting $2.50 so they owe me $125 for the straight flush alone!)

they emailed me this
The complaint is currently under Tech Department's inspection, however, the primary resolution has been received with brief descriptions.


Please see below

You wrote: <<< I had a STRAIGHT A,2,3,4,5 and it didn't pay me for a STRAIGHT>>>,

Please see card range

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Individual cards are ranked A (highest), K, Q, J, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 (lowest).
It means that A,2,3,4,5 - IS NOT STRAIGHT


More detailed resolution is coming soon.


We hope for your understanding and patience.




Best Regards,


Sean
Customer Relations Manager
www.eldoradopalace.com

THEY THINK A,2,3,4,5 is NOT a straight!
what can i do to convince them it is???

 

[butterflyboogie]

straight

This is a casino, surely they know a straight can be either way. Find material from other casinos, both online and brick and mortar regarding straights and send it to them. Hope you get it resolved.

 

[IanO]

Please see card range

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

are you saying they actually quoted that wiki page to say A-5 is not a straight? The sentence that was quoted continues....

From wiki, the full quote: ''Individual cards are ranked A (highest), K, Q, J, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 (lowest). Aces can appear low (as if having a value of "1") when part of an A-2-3-4-5 straight or straight flush.''

Even one of their CS reps confirmed ace-five is a straight. Have you got game logs or screen shots showing the unpaid hands?

 

[LaHutti]

That is amazing.
Hope you have some screenshots.

 

[SlotMonster]

OMG!!!

We need to check, maybe they think that five cards of the same color is actually a flush!

 

[Mousey]

I've been playing at eldoradopalace.com (only because they are one of the only casinos that take premium sms text message for deposit) and they recently added a slightly better jacks or better video poker game that pays "8 6" compared to their old one that pays "7 5".
anyways, on this new jacks or better, ive hit at least 3 straights of A,2,3,4,5 and one STRAIGHT FLUSH of A,2,3,4,5 (on that, i was betting $2.50 so they owe me $125 for the straight flush alone!)

they emailed me this
The complaint is currently under Tech Department's inspection, however, the primary resolution has been received with brief descriptions.


Please see below

You wrote: <<< I had a STRAIGHT A,2,3,4,5 and it didn't pay me for a STRAIGHT>>>,

Please see card range

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Individual cards are ranked A (highest), K, Q, J, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 (lowest).
It means that A,2,3,4,5 - IS NOT STRAIGHT


More detailed resolution is coming soon.


We hope for your understanding and patience.




Best Regards,


Sean
Customer Relations Manager
www.eldoradopalace.com

THEY THINK A,2,3,4,5 is NOT a straight!
what can i do to convince them it is???

Someone humor me... what software is this? And OP, we need to know exactly which game you were playing (saying 'new Jacks or Better' isn't specific enough), and a screenshot. With those bits of info members here can at least have a look to see what's what.

 

[bpb]

It's cute that a company can operate an online casino without knowing one of the most fundamental aspects of poker hand rankings.

I could understand if a newer company made the mistake of not realizing that A2345 is the 2nd highest straight in pai gow poker, while being the lowest possible straight in traditional poker hand ranking. That one's a bit strange and I've personally witnessed some issues at live pai gow poker.

 

[mattsgame]

Stop playing here now!!

I know you said you like them because they offer premium sms text deposits (first i have heard of this option before) and I dare say the reason they accept this method is so they can make a killing. These guys do not pay and have been very suss since they first opened, Even some of the less (how do I put this) ethical websites have a warning about these guys for non payments, rigged casino games etc.

The fact that the CSR don't know what a straight is and then redirects you to a wiki that proves your point is mind boggling.

If I was you I would walk away from this casino ASAP and have a look at some of the better casinos that accept U.S players, plenty of U.S players here on CM that would be willing to help you out with where to play and how to deposit.

Good Luck
Matt

P.S Mousey: They use Connective Games (Which I think is their own software)

 

[Mousey]

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Well, my googling hasn't turned up anything as to other accusations of rigged software (so far), but from what I have found... jeez.... it's not a good idea to play there??

 

[mattsgame]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Well, my googling hasn't turned up anything as to other accusations of rigged software (so far), but from what I have found... jeez.... it's not a good idea to play there??

I am trying to pin point where I had seen the complaint/s about rigged software before I have a feeling it was on VP but not 100% sure. Connective Games is based in Russia (first warning sign usually). From what I can find their last TST testing was back in 2009.

Connective games is also merged with xxhttp://www.onecybertech.com/

It also seems they have a link to xxxhttp://www.intrice.com/casino-gaming-software-developers.html Who I have never even heard mentioned before but "which makes us the most popular online gaming software providers in the industry."


Eldorado is also on CM's Rogue list.

 

[chuchu59]

I learned somewhere that in poker A,2,3,4,5 is called a wheel and is the lowest form of a straight and even lower than 2,3,4,5, 6 but to say its not a straight is uttely unbelievable and ridiculous.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Stop playing here now!!

I know you said you like them because they offer premium sms text deposits (first i have heard of this option before) and I dare say the reason they accept this method is so they can make a killing. These guys do not pay and have been very suss since they first opened, Even some of the less (how do I put this) ethical websites have a warning about these guys for non payments, rigged casino games etc.

The fact that the CSR don't know what a straight is and then redirects you to a wiki that proves your point is mind boggling.

If I was you I would walk away from this casino ASAP and have a look at some of the better casinos that accept U.S players, plenty of U.S players here on CM that would be willing to help you out with where to play and how to deposit.

Good Luck
Matt

P.S Mousey: They use Connective Games (Which I think is their own software)

.....except it doesn't. It goes on to say that in Poker it IS a straight because the A can be either high or low.

I suspect what they have done is to implement this "trick" to make up for "new Jacks or Better" having a better paytable than the old, and may have prepared this "Wiki proves it" in advance knowing that players are bound to notice and question the payouts.

 

[Seventh777]

.....except it doesn't. It goes on to say that in Poker it IS a straight because the A can be either high or low.

Matt was stating that wiki does state it is a straight and thus proving the OP`s point. So it does. ner ner .

 

[BingoT]

In my World 1,2,3,4,5 is a straight

 

[vinylweatherman]

Matt was stating that wiki does state it is a straight and thus proving the OP`s point. So it does. ner ner .

ner ner yourself. That is what I said. The Wiki link says it IS a straight, so it does NOT prove the CSR's point.

 

[herpiderp]

I wouldn't want to play a game of hi-lo anything with the guys who wrote this software.

 

[Seventh777]

ner ner yourself. That is what I said. The Wiki link says it IS a straight, so it does NOT prove the CSR's point.

My bad it was your wording, ner ner nikki ner ner .

 

[vinylweatherman]

My bad it was your wording, ner ner nikki ner ner .

Maybe my wording is just too complicated for someone from Essex.

ner ner nikki nikki knickers ner ner with brass knobs on - no returns

 

[Mousey]

Boy, boys! Back to this mysterious VP game.

Does anyone already have the software loaded so you can check the paytable for us? I won't download rogue... It may be something that Jacobsen would be interested in, but we need info.

 

[skiny]

Well, I think your best bet is to forget about trying to collect the money you won with their software and offer to sit down at a table and play some real poker.

They're obviously not very well versed on what constitutes a poker hand so the odds would really be in your favor.

Here are some suggestions.



Go clean house.

 

[IanO]

Not a real straight

They're obviously not very well versed on what constitutes a poker hand so the odds would really be in your favor.
)

It's very naughty of you to mislead the readership here. Clearly the bottom left poker hand in your image was not a real straight. To make it clear, I added a blue line to the image below. The hand you had displayed was clearly a 'Bendy', with an actual staight beside it.

Sheesh

Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[skiny]

Bendy straights pay double.

 

[Mousey]

Bendy straights pay double.

ok... that's it... just spewed my monitor and cat and keyboard with coffee.... :notworthy

 

[jstrike]

This made me curious about accepting SMS payments, so I did a little research.

From what I can tell, most SMS payments are specific to each phone company in each country, and operate under the law of that country, so it's a really confusing and messy landscape. Then there are these companies like ImpulsePay in the UK that tie together all the phone company protocols in one country into one aggregate payment provider, and then there are some companies like Aonebill that tie together tons of different phone company payments in dozens of countries. They don't, generally, accept premium SMS for gambling...at least not in most countries.

I found one that's a Russian provider and tied into WebMoney, which I'm guessing does accept SMS for gambling. But they only make payouts to casinos once a month, and sound pretty sketchy.

I'm guessing this is why most casinos wouldn't bother to accept it. I'm curious, OP, what country are you using this service from?

 

[rockycatt]

this would put him in the usa-->Join Date: Dec 2011Location: pittsburgh, pa Posts: 1Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 PostsRep Power:0 Reputation Points: 10

 

[jstrike]

this would put him in the usa-->Join Date: Dec 2011Location: pittsburgh, pa Posts: 1Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 PostsRep Power:0 Reputation Points: 10

I know, but I thought maybe they were going from the UK or somewhere else. Being able to do that with an SMS from the US would be so sketchy and illegal on so many levels it's hard to know where to even start.

 

[jstrike]

Update to this... I just spent awhile talking to a payment processing rep with a company that specializes in SMS transactions. The first company I tried in Sweden turned me down flat. Here's what I found out... first of all, this is highly regulated by country, including what you can do with the money and what the maximum amount you can deposit is. Second, there's a serious risk of "SMS fraud" which I didn't know anything about, basically he called it "SIM stuffing" where someone gets a stolen credit card, buys a bunch of prepaid phone cards and then uses them to make lots of deposits. The chargebacks from the stolen card don't show up to the SMS provider for months, and then they get passed on to the casino. Thirdly there is no way on the planet that this can be done as a gambling payment method inside the US, and I didn't ask him like, how does ElDoradoPlace do it then, since it didn't seem worth asking. Fourth, the fees are ridiculous. Basically it's at least $5 in fees no matter how much or how little gets sent, so as a casino there's not much point in doing it unless you're using it for pretty substantial deposits, but the actual amount you can accept turns out to be regulated on a country-by-country basis, and obviously the bigger the deposit is the more fraud risk you're facing. All in all it doesn't sound like something most legit casinos would do. He did say one interesting thing which was that SMS really isn't made for large payments because of the security issues, but if there was a business it can work in, it's gaming, because we're not shipping physical products and we can keep an eye on the player before they withdraw to spot any kinds of issues. So I can see how that would work if you're real hands-on about it, and I'm still chipping away at it, maybe I can find something that works for us. I like the fact that it's instant, everyone's got a phone so players don't have to sign up for any kind of wallet, and if we could figure a way to do it for $50-100 deposits in a couple countries where that would be okay, then the $5 fee each time wouldn't be so bad. But what I know right now is that the US, Australia, UK and France are definitely out of the picture.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Update to this... I just spent awhile talking to a payment processing rep with a company that specializes in SMS transactions. The first company I tried in Sweden turned me down flat. Here's what I found out... first of all, this is highly regulated by country, including what you can do with the money and what the maximum amount you can deposit is. Second, there's a serious risk of "SMS fraud" which I didn't know anything about, basically he called it "SIM stuffing" where someone gets a stolen credit card, buys a bunch of prepaid phone cards and then uses them to make lots of deposits. The chargebacks from the stolen card don't show up to the SMS provider for months, and then they get passed on to the casino. Thirdly there is no way on the planet that this can be done as a gambling payment method inside the US, and I didn't ask him like, how does ElDoradoPlace do it then, since it didn't seem worth asking. Fourth, the fees are ridiculous. Basically it's at least $5 in fees no matter how much or how little gets sent, so as a casino there's not much point in doing it unless you're using it for pretty substantial deposits, but the actual amount you can accept turns out to be regulated on a country-by-country basis, and obviously the bigger the deposit is the more fraud risk you're facing. All in all it doesn't sound like something most legit casinos would do. He did say one interesting thing which was that SMS really isn't made for large payments because of the security issues, but if there was a business it can work in, it's gaming, because we're not shipping physical products and we can keep an eye on the player before they withdraw to spot any kinds of issues. So I can see how that would work if you're real hands-on about it, and I'm still chipping away at it, maybe I can find something that works for us. I like the fact that it's instant, everyone's got a phone so players don't have to sign up for any kind of wallet, and if we could figure a way to do it for $50-100 deposits in a couple countries where that would be okay, then the $5 fee each time wouldn't be so bad. But what I know right now is that the US, Australia, UK and France are definitely out of the picture.

You need not worry about the UK, as we don't need this kind of convoluted way of depositing as it is legal here, and you can take direct deposits from pretty much any method except Mastercard. All premium phone products are tightly regulated because in the past bogus companies have been set up to rip people off over premium rate calls and texts for services that are never given, or are advertised in a highly misleading way.

El Dorado Palace are probably doing the SMS equivalent of "miscoding" the transactions so that they look like the usual types of premium SMS service. they may also be using international SMS, where the regulation of the service is not in the same country as the customer. It is, of course, high risk, because their exposure to fraud is even higher because they would not be entirely honest about the nature of the services. To counter the risk, they have to be clawing back money from players somehow, and one way is operating a misleading game that has a much higher RTP than it should. They could also be using every excuse they can think of to void winnings or delay withdrawals, especially for players that have won overall.

As you have found, there is "no way on the planet" to do this LEGIT.

A further possibilty is one that came from findings in the UK, and that is the "middleman" company, or the Telco, that interfaces the user to the receiver of the premium SMS might itself be "bent", and be manipulating the regulations so that the SMS charges go through despite it not being legal for that particular country's players.

 

[TheLastCylon]

It's cute that a company can operate an online casino without knowing one of the most fundamental aspects of poker hand rankings.

I could understand if a newer company made the mistake of not realizing that A2345 is the 2nd highest straight in pai gow poker, while being the lowest possible straight in traditional poker hand ranking. That one's a bit strange and I've personally witnessed some issues at live pai gow poker.

I'm led to believe that the casino developer is who knows how things work. Afterall, they made the game. The operators, who only need to know how to set up a server, seem to frequently be stupid.

 

[dogparkaddict]

still battling them ugh

here is their latest email to me

We understand your concerns but considering the descriptions posted in
detail at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

one can notice
that A 2 3 4 5 is not Straight.

We are expecting additional information to satisfy your arguments.

Best Regards,


Sean
Customer Relations Manager
www.eldoradopalace.com

i email them back this
Hi Sean
at that site u mention

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

PLEASE READ THE SECTION UNDER "STRAIGHT FLUSH"
I have posted a section from it below
PLEASE READ THE PART THAT SAYS "ACES CAN PLAY LOW IN STRAIGHTS"!
and it shows a STRAIGHT IN RED 5,4,3,2,A
NOW do u see im correct??

A straight flush is a hand that contains five cards in sequence, all of the same suit, such as Q♣ J♣ 10♣ 9♣ 8♣(a hand that meets the requirement of both a straight and a flush). Two such hands are compared by their card that is ranked highest. Aces can play low in straights and straight flushes: 5♦ 4♦ 3♦ 2♦ A♦ is a 5-high straight flush, also known as a "steel wheel

my account is owed at least 3 regular STRAIGHT PAYOFFS and ONE STRAIGHT FLUSH PAYOUT for
$125 when i bet $2.50 for the hand!

by the way, if anyone wants to see that they really dont pay for an a,2,3,4,5 straight or straight flush with that,
u DONT have to download anything, its flash or whatever, andjust click PLAY FOR FREE ( u mght have to register though)

their "new" jacks or better is in their "crystal palace" hall and its called Magic World (single line is what i played )
if anyone wants to play till they get A,2,3,4,5 as a a straight, go ahead and ull see no payout. it REALLY hurt when i got a straight flush with that and NOPAY ugh.

 

[GrandMaster]

Since they are using wikipedia as an authoritative source, I am tempted to edit that page to say that A, 2, 3, 4, 5 is the most valuable straight, in video poker it pays twice as much as any other straight.

 

[Mousey]

here is their latest email to me

We understand your concerns but considering the descriptions posted in
detail at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

one can notice
that A 2 3 4 5 is not Straight.

We are expecting additional information to satisfy your arguments.

Best Regards,


Sean
Customer Relations Manager
www.eldoradopalace.com

i email them back this
Hi Sean
at that site u mention

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

PLEASE READ THE SECTION UNDER "STRAIGHT FLUSH"
I have posted a section from it below
PLEASE READ THE PART THAT SAYS "ACES CAN PLAY LOW IN STRAIGHTS"!
and it shows a STRAIGHT IN RED 5,4,3,2,A
NOW do u see im correct??

A straight flush is a hand that contains five cards in sequence, all of the same suit, such as Q♣ J♣ 10♣ 9♣ 8♣(a hand that meets the requirement of both a straight and a flush). Two such hands are compared by their card that is ranked highest. Aces can play low in straights and straight flushes: 5♦ 4♦ 3♦ 2♦ A♦ is a 5-high straight flush, also known as a "steel wheel

my account is owed at least 3 regular STRAIGHT PAYOFFS and ONE STRAIGHT FLUSH PAYOUT for
$125 when i bet $2.50 for the hand!

by the way, if anyone wants to see that they really dont pay for an a,2,3,4,5 straight or straight flush with that,
u DONT have to download anything, its flash or whatever, andjust click PLAY FOR FREE ( u mght have to register though)

their "new" jacks or better is in their "crystal palace" hall and its called Magic World (single line is what i played )
if anyone wants to play till they get A,2,3,4,5 as a a straight, go ahead and ull see no payout. it REALLY hurt when i got a straight flush with that and NOPAY ugh.

Not doubting that they don't pay out for a wheel straight.... I just wanted to see pay tables and games rules to see if we could tell if it's a weird slot machine (anyone remember Slotland's VP?) or carni game rather than true video poker.

At any rate.... please don't anyone play at this bunch of casinos.... they're already rogue here and their software is suspect.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ask them to provide evidence of ONE poker game variant (other than their own) where A,2,3,4,5 is NOT a straight.

I have never seen one, and even the Slotland ones pay out on A,2,3,4,5 as a straight.

It would appear they have an almost unlimited abilty to mess with the mechanics of the games, beyond altering the paytables. Remember, this curiosity is being reported AFTER they increased the paytables of their standard Jacks or Better to make a "more generous" version.

RTG operators can select different sets of paytables for VP, but they CANNOT start knocking out certain types of standard hands so as to make them no longer payable.

This is easily spotted because it is a poker game, and has a recognisable set of expected norms as well as the paytable. They could mess around much more with the slots, and it would be very hard to spot.

Maybe they will announce a new improved version of one of their slots with some increases in the paytable, but it will turn out to have been tweaked so that the odds of each pay occurring is reduced, making a WORSE paying game than the original.

 

[Nate]

Sean the VIP Manager from EldoradoPalace is DUMB.... He shouldn't even attempt to be a VIP Manager when he can't read a Wiki page properly.

I am tempted to point him to this thread.... but then again, he may read another and claim it does not exist. Dumbest VIP Manager award on its way...

Nate

 

[dogparkaddict]

now im satisfied with Eldorado Palace

I got this resolved with Eldorado Palace Casino
they are going to pay my winnings of $130.80 and process my other withdrawal
this board has been a good help and Eldorado Palace has done the right thing