ECOGRA- my complaint case

[silentryan7]

Hello all,
I was wondering if you could give me some advice, I recently won £7050 online and got the money the next day, around 2 days later I got an email from the company saying congrats on your big win of £121,000, naturally I was in shock as the money never landed in my balance, so I contacted the live chat team and I asked SEVERAL people if I had really won 121k and I was told, there was no doubt, YES I had won the money, and I would get a phone call and all would be explained to me then. So about 4 days later I get the phone call, they tell me the email was sent out in "error" and it's the amount I had wagered, not winnings, as a result of this I had spent all of that £7050 plus another £12,000, so as a result of this I'm 19k worse off, I have the screenshot of the live chat telling me I have definitely won this 121k and a copy of the email. The company is refusing to pay me a dime. I have taken the case to ECOGRA and I was wondering if all of you could tell me my chances of winning my case, as this is just ridiculous from the company telling me I have won 6 figures when I didn't, its not right.

What are my chances of this going in my favour?

 

[The Dude]

If this was a general cock-up. I would wait for eCOGRA to at least give you an answer on this. And speaking from experience, if it truly is a total screwup - casinos usually want to keep this on the down low so at least they can make amends to the player. So I would hold off on naming shaming before you have an answer.

That's just a caveat

 

[silentryan7]

Yeah I'm waiting for their response now, it's been roughly 3 weeks since the complete case file, I haven't reported them to the UKGC yet I'm waiting on ecogra to get back to me, thanks for your input. Much appreciated

 

[The Dude]

No worries - and thanks for joining us here. Please let us know how it goes. We have pretty close ties with eGOGRA.

Not so much the UKGC

 

[silentryan7]

Yeah I'm praying this goes in my favour, I'd rather not take this to court. I will keep you all updated with the outcome, hopefully hear back by February 27th 2024, as that's the 90 day mark.

 

[interlog]

Maybe it is just me that is confused, but how did the OP believe he won that £121k on?

 

[silentryan7]

I have no idea, I asked them how did I win that very large amount of money, they told me all would be explained in a phone call. Got said phone call, they said was sent in error. It's a major screw up!

 

[L&L-Jan]

Maybe it is just me that is confused, but how did the OP believe he won that £121k on?

This is applicable, you can see on screen what's happening. Anything around that you can never take for granted, no matter what.

The chances of winning are minimal as the gaming history will be provided where it clearly states:
- total bets/wagers
- total wins
- Gross result

if there is no trace of any £121k win, the case is solved.

All casinos are required to provide gaming history on site, so you could have verified it on site.

 

[silentryan7]

That is a fair point but the members of staff also have access to that information too so why didn't they check this first and tell me the truth? I asked them are you ? sure I have won this, not just one person, about 4 or 5 people I spoke too all confirmed I had won this money, so who's in the wrong here?

 

[L&L-Jan]

It doesn't matter who's wrong, you never won the amount. That's it.

It sounds to me that you might have played at a unregulated casino.

 

[silentryan7]

It's a pretty well known casino. Not naming. Thank you for your opinion. Will update you when I know more!

 

[L&L-Jan]

Its not my casinos i work for, thats for sure

 

[silentryan7]

Yeah I know I'm not entitled to the full 121k but I reckon I'm due some compensation at least. For damages

 

[L&L-Jan]

Yeah, I would have given 10% of the damage due to human error from our end, which is imo more than fair.

 

[silentryan7]

That was the figure I was thinking, you think my chances of getting compensation are good then?

 

[Webzcas]

Sounds like a 'cock-up' by the Live Chat person you were chatting with. That obviously does not help your situation, especially as you played back your £7k plus extra :-(

But if your gaming history doesn't show the win, nor did you actually encounter the win, then I am afraid your luck is out...

 

[silentryan7]

It was about 5 people I spoke to, cause I still couldn't believe it, so I kept on contacting them asking more than one advisor if this was true and everyone said yes I have won it. So that's beyond a simple mistake

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

Yeah, I would have given 10% of the damage due to human error from our end, which is imo more than fair.

Whaaaaat? 10% of the misquoted “win” or 10% of what the player lost after receiving an email with erroneous info? Either way that sounds pretty generous.

Apologies if I offend the OP here but I personally don’t believe the loss incurred is related to the error on informing the win incorrectly and I suspect (obviously can’t prove) that it would have happened regardless.

I genuinely wish you the best of luck in getting it back though, regardless. Sounds like a bit of a mess.

 

[lnspin]

reminds me of an old childhood saying, "Dont count your chickens before they hatch"

 

[andysbetting1187]

Whaaaaat? 10% of the misquoted “win” or 10% of what the player lost after receiving an email with erroneous info? Either way that sounds pretty generous.

Apologies if I offend the OP here but I personally don’t believe the loss incurred is related to the error on informing the win incorrectly and I suspect (obviously can’t prove) that it would have happened regardless.

I genuinely wish you the best of luck in getting it back though, regardless. Sounds like a bit of a mess.

Even if they said it was 10% of the win, it would only be £12k going back to the OP when he has spent £19k.

OP - whatever you have spent the additional 12k on (plus the 7k, if not gambled it) make sure you keep any receipts/transaction details for it just in case the casino asks for them to prove how you are out of pocket (or you take the matter to court)

To be honest though, I would be surprised if they gave you £12k (or more) - hope they do though.

 

[paul7388]

Maybe it is just me.

But if I got an email saying I had won that amount from a casino I would take it as a mistake.

Then if I was told it was genuine I would want to know how right away. You must know yourselves from your bets that you never won it. And if you have it would have showed in your balance.

And if it was somehow a win you never knew about then pretty sure they would have been in contact right away not people on chat saying it will get explained in a phone call at some point.

One things for sure . If I was told I had won that amount and I did not know how
I certainly would not have been spending a penny of it until it was explained how I had managed to win a fortune and i actually had the funds.

As for the legal route. Sorry but don't think you have a chance in hell of winning. Places make mistakes all the time. Banks put wrong amounts In peoples accounts. Bookies wrongly settle bets. Soon as it is noticed they remove the amount as it wasn't yours.

Any good casino will simply argue that an email was sent in mistake. That you as the customer knew you had not won that amount and your account shows that. And that they can hardly be responsible for you blowing a fortune you had never received.

 

[paul7388]

The more I think of it.

Don't think anyone out or any.member on here would do what you have done.

Common sense tells anyone that if they haven't won a huge amount while playing that an email saying they had a huge win must be a mistake. Certainly can't think of anyone that would go wow I'm rich. Casino says I have won this amount but won't tell me how and why but what the hell even tho its not in balance I will go blow 20k.

Could.maybe understand someone spending money if there had been a mistake and a slot had.paid out wrong amount and it showed in players account. But no one out would spend that sort of money till they found out how it was theirs and actually received it

 

[nfehily]

Not a prayer you're receiving a bean im afraid.
Don't believe ANYTHING until you can see, feel, touch, taste AND spend it.

 

[dealer wins]

Hate to say it, but I doubt you will get a penny from the casino or get anywhere with eCOGRA.

At the end of the day errors occur both with humans and the slots.

Remember the sign on the physical slots "malfunction voids all pays and plays"

 

[satchnz]

The casino in question wouldn’t be called “Nigerian Prince”, would it? ?

 

[maxd]

That was the figure I was thinking, you think my chances of getting compensation are good then?

No one can properly answer that question without knowing what casino you are talking about. If it's a legitimate, properly licensed casino with reasonably benevolent management -- like Jan's for instance -- then sure, they might be willing to make amends for their bungle. Remove the "benevolent" bit from that description though and your chances plummet.

But if you're talking about some offshore place with flaccid (or non-existent) licensing then it's wishful thinking to expect there's even a remote chance of getting what Jan, for example, has suggested. From my work on player complaints I would guess that 90% of the casinos I deal with would either ignore your claim entirely or just tell you to go to their ADR.

JMO, YMMV.

- Max

 

[silentryan7]

I don't want to ruin my chances of getting anything by revealing the casino, I'm not naming and shaming yet. Once I know the outcome I will reveal what casino it is, its a very well known casino and tbf it would even come as a shock that the company has even done this. Iv given you EVERY DETAIL about this case, you don't need to know what casino it is

 

[silentryan7]

Thank you all for your input, I will keep you all updated soon as I know more

 

[maxd]

... I'm not naming and shaming yet ...

I don't recall anyone asking you to, but thanks for letting us know your intentions.

- Max

 

[silentryan7]

Just said its hard to tell if I'm going to get compensation without knowing what casino it is.... when iv given every detail about this case, so far very mixed opinions so its interesting.... its a waiting game now

 

[Webzcas]

When I was an affiliate, one of the programs I had an account with, had a bit of a reporting issue. Back then I was earning every month north of $5,000. This one particular month my earnings were being reported at over $50k, right until the end of the month.

Whilst a big spike, not necessarily a shocking one, as all it takes is catching a whale or two.

But alas was a reporting error and the amount when resolved was around $5k.

It happens unfortunately. The program in question, I have no doubts was also acting on the level. Still friends to this day with main person I worked with there. The program was swallowed up by a competitor several years ago in an acquisition.

Moral of the story, don't spend anything until you have it in your bank account...

 

[silentryan7]

Gee thanks like I hadn't thought of that before, you think I wanted to be in this position? You think every member of staff that I spoke to told me I might "not" get the money, no they never. Everyone said there was no doubt I was getting the money, one person saying it, maybe its a mistake, but 4 or 5 peoople all saying iv won it? Its not on.

 

[L&L-Jan]

10% of what the player lost after receiving an email with erroneous info?

This part mate, just 10% of the "losses" which comes down to our cashback. And if customer would be activate abc or nbc, it comes down to 20%.

 

[silentryan7]

Say for example I was in Las Vegas gambling a fortune, then the casino manager walks up says iv won the jackpot in a competition and it will be paid soon, would you believe him? That's how I thought I'd. Won the money, in a competition of some sort hence why it never. Dropped into my balance

 

[silentryan7]

This part mate, just 10% of the "losses" which comes down to our cashback. And if customer would be activate abc or nbc, it comes down to 20%.

Jan, I know you! I have an account with allbritish casino, I gamble with you often, I believe you have credited my account with several cash bonuses, did you see a customer was due a £10 drop & win which went to your spam folder, so you credited my account with the £10 and an additional £100 cash for the delay, do you remember this?

 

[L&L-Jan]

Jan, I know you! I have an account with allbritish casino, I gamble with you often, I believe you have credited my account with several cash bonuses, did you see a customer was due a £10 drop & win which went to your spam folder, so you credited my account with the £10 and an additional £100 cash for the delay, do you remember this?

Ow yes, that was about 2 weeks ago i believe. The notifications from Prag hit my inbox now

So you do know quality casinos

 

[silentryan7]

Ow yes, that was about 2 weeks ago i believe. The notifications from Prag hit my inbox now

So you do know quality casinos

I will private message you Jan I trust to tell you what casino it is

 

[The Dude]

It doesn't matter who's wrong, you never won the amount. That's it.

It sounds to me that you might have played at a unregulated casino.

If he's gone through eCogra, it's more than likely a UKGC casino.

I'm not going to say who I think it is, but I have my suspicions.

 

[L&L-Jan]

@Casinomeister yeah, just been informed by PM and actually not surprised. Hope OP gets a compensation as that's what he earns imo.

Funny that OP won during a pragmatic drops and wins draw, notification hit my inbox and for a week delay of crediting the prize, I gave him 100 extra. Some casinos are generous, others not

 

[silentryan7]

Thank you Jan, it is a mad coincidence I'll tell you that!

 

[maxd]

... just been informed by PM and actually not surprised. ...

+1.

 

[satchnz]

No one can properly answer that question without knowing what casino you are talking about. If it's a legitimate, properly licensed casino with reasonably benevolent management -- like Jan's for instance -- then sure, they might be willing to make amends for their bungle. Remove the "benevolent" bit from that description though and your chances plummet.

But if you're talking about some offshore place with flaccid (or non-existent) licensing then it's wishful thinking to expect there's even a remote chance of getting what Jan, for example, has suggested. From my work on player complaints I would guess that 90% of the casinos I deal with would either ignore your claim entirely or just tell you to go to their ADR.

JMO, YMMV.

- Max

I’m baffled as to why anyone is even hinting there could be a chance this person gets any form of compensation whatsoever. Is there a precedent in the industry for this kind of issue where compensation was paid?

If it were me, I would either know straight up that I didn’t win that kind of money, or I’d at least find out what the win was a result of. I’d even probably argue with the casino for a bit, but I certainly wouldn’t try to take further action. I would cease to play at the casino and move on.

Am I missing something?

 

[maxd]

I’m baffled as to why anyone is even hinting there could be a chance this person gets any form of compensation whatsoever. Is there a precedent in the industry for this kind of issue where compensation was paid?

Absolutely! I wasn't kidding when I said a good casino with benevolent management could very well offer respectable compensation. I've handled a good many cases where the casino just says "piss off" but the good guys do come through. I remember one for $10k for instance, couple years ago: can't share details but they're people we've worked with for ages. It's not just hype and lip-service when we talk about "good" casinos, they really are well above the pack in terms of how they treat and deal with player issues.

Basically it's a question of whether the casino management behave as if their Support people are valued staff -- and thus make some effort to compensate for their mistake -- or just drones that they fob their Support off onto and then take no responsibility for.

Admittedly the chances of a five-figure settlement are slim, but the chance of decent compensation is not zero. I think that's where all this is coming from.

- Max

 

[Guntis]

If it was me, first i'd think that i won a raffle or something where some money was randomly placed in player accounts. Some years ago such did exist. Other than that, i'd think Adetokunbo Ademola is taking a piss out of me.

 

[satchnz]

Absolutely! I wasn't kidding when I said a good casino with benevolent management could very well offer respectable compensation. I've handled a good many cases where the casino just says "piss off" but the good guys do come through. I remember one for $10k for instance, couple years ago: can't share details but they're people we've worked with for ages. It's not just hype and lip-service when we talk about "good" casinos, they really are well above the pack in terms of how they treat and deal with player issues.

Basically it's a question of whether the casino management behave as if their Support people are valued staff -- and thus make some effort to compensate for their mistake -- or just drones that they fob their Support off onto and then take no responsibility for.

Admittedly the chances of a five-figure settlement are slim, but the chances of decent compensation is not zero. I think that's where all this is coming from.

- Max

Ok fair enough. Thanks for explaining.

 

[silentryan7]

I have ceased play at the said casino and found another great one to use! At allbritish. Doesn't mean I'm going to just give up!

 

[silentryan7]

If it was me, first i'd think that i won a raffle or something where some money was randomly placed in player accounts. Some years ago such did exist. Other than that, i'd think Adetokunbo Ademola is taking a piss out of me.

That's what I thought, a competition of some sort, I asked if it was a competition and all they said was they would provide me with clarity in a phone call. All the evidence I have is beyond believe, I will post all the evidence over once I have resolved this issue

 

[disgruntled_punter]

In the casinos terms what is the governing law?

There is usually a section of the casinos terms which says something like "governing law and jurisdiction". This would indicate where the casino expects you to sue them in the event of a dispute.

 

[silentryan7]

In the casinos terms what is the governing law?

There is usually a section of the casinos terms which says something like "governing law and jurisdiction". This would indicate where the casino expects you to sue them in the event of a dispute.

The company is based in Malta but is very well known in the United Kingdom, ecogra is the official ADR

 

[disgruntled_punter]

The company is based in Malta but is very well known in the United Kingdom, ecogra is the official ADR

Companies in Malta often have their contracts subject to English law.

It will be in their terms and conditions (usually near the bottom). Can you check are revert back?