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Double Up in Video Poker - do you do it?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Casinomeister, Apr 7, 2011.

?

Do you use the "Double or Nothing" option in Video Poker?

  1. Yes, often.

    20 vote(s)
    30.3%
  2. Yes, but seldom.

    21 vote(s)
    31.8%
  3. No. Me no like.

    22 vote(s)
    33.3%
  4. No opinion.

    3 vote(s)
    4.5%
    Apr 7, 2011
  1. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    ATTENTION VIDEO POKER PLAYERS

    When playing VP, do you play the "double or nothing" option at the end of a hand. If so, how often? And if so, why?

    Do any players here have any tactics they'd like to share? (always black; or if the month has a "y" in it, pick red, etc.)

    I always considered it a ploy to lose your winnings, but I was reminded that it has no house edge, so maybe it's not so bad after all.

    Please take the poll. :thumbsup:
     
  2. Apr 7, 2011
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    And maybe some of the math heads can explain the advantages/disadvantages using this option.
     
  4. Apr 7, 2011
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have played it on the odd occasion, but not to double a BIG win.

    I also use it on slots when I have almost bust out, and want to get rid of a few last pennies to zero out a bonus balance.

    Although it has no house edge, it does not contribute to WR either, and many casinos view doubling as "bonus abuse", giving another reason to avoid it.

    Double a Royal Flush:eek: - no chance.
     
  6. Apr 7, 2011
  7. baldidiot

    baldidiot Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    London
    In theory (disregarding bonus WR) it's one of the best bets you can make in a casino, right? But I just can't bring myself to do it - it just feels like a scam :p

    There was a guy a few yeas ago would doubled up on VP until he made it into the millions (2, I think). I'll try and find the article...
     
  8. Apr 7, 2011
  9. GamblersDen

    GamblersDen Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Webmaster, Internet Marketing
    Location:
    Cyprus
    I'm a huge fan of Doubling Up. It is a bet that has no house edge in most casinos - I came across an online casino years ago that offered this feature but you lose if you tie the upcard... now that was a scam! I am a pretty conservative player and will usually double up the smaller wins once or twice, and on occassion a bigger bet. I once had 4 Aces on a Double Bonus Machine (5 coins pays out 800 coins) and was debating whether or not to double up for a good 30 seconds before wisely collecting my winnings :)

    In truth, doubling up really depends on your playstyle - it overall reduces the house edge but significantly increases variance; you may not win as often if you double up aggresively but when you do it will be a nice payout. If you manage to double up five times in a row you can turn a 1:1 payout into a 32:1 payout which is fantastic, but you only have a little over 3% chance of succeeding in doing so :)
     
  10. Apr 7, 2011
  11. BoyleCasino.com

    BoyleCasino.com Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Operations Manager
    Location:
    Ireland
    I'm by no means a maths whizz but I do understand why it's a good bet. You're effectively only ever risking your initial stake to win a large amount of cash. Most of us would have a big win and want to bank it, but there are some hardcore gamblers out there that want more, so go for the double up.

    It comes down to what you're happy with I suppose. If you could double your life savings on the flip of a coin, would you take the gamble?
     
  12. Apr 7, 2011
  13. GamblersDen

    GamblersDen Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Webmaster, Internet Marketing
    Location:
    Cyprus
    I don't think that Bryan was asking if we double up our big wins, but in general if we do it :D. I agree that big wins only the lucky (or foolish) people take the risk, but if it comes down to it I would rather gamble my life savings on a 50/50 bet than on a bet with a house egde ;)
     
  14. Apr 7, 2011
  15. baldidiot

    baldidiot Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    London
    Heck no!

    Does anyone remember the idiot that sold everything (totalled about £75k) and went to vegas to put it on one spin on a roulette wheel:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Sky also made a tv show about it.
     
  16. Apr 7, 2011
  17. GamblersDen

    GamblersDen Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Webmaster, Internet Marketing
    Location:
    Cyprus
    Ha!

    I remember that... Must of had a mid-life crisis of sorts (at 32?!) that pushed him to do such a stupid thing.
     
  18. Apr 7, 2011
  19. baldidiot

    baldidiot Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    London
    Turns out he got his income from poker - you'd think he'd know better! Such poor bankroll management skills! :D
     
  20. Apr 7, 2011
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I always use the Double Up feature when playing VP - but not on every win!

    Bearing in mind that I usually play 50-hand power poker; If I win less than half my total bet I always try to double it to near my original stake. I don't double up if my win is higher than my stake.

    My "System" is to always pick the Right-most card for the first double up, and in the next double, the position where the lowest card was in the previous one. If I have a bad run, I switch my first pick the the left-hand end.
    All nonsense of course, because it's totally random... at least, I hope it is! :eek2:

    KK
     
  22. Apr 7, 2011
  23. Stovetopp

    Stovetopp Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    On the Beach
    The above statements makes absolutely no sense to me. LOL
    You ALWAYS use the dble up but not on every win.. so you don't always, do you?
    Nothing personal KK, I am a fan of yours. BUT I found it amusing and pondered it for a while . Maybe besides. I just woke up

    At a live casino, I have seen guys dble up to nine times and have seen dbling $4000 RF twice Saw him win 22k one day and lost it all [plus another few grand the next day then wanted a loan from me lol
     
  24. Apr 7, 2011
  25. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I'm a chicken and don't double the big wins. I routinely double a 1x payout, usually twice, and 2x payouts once.

    Playtech offers a "gamble half" on wins, so I will gamble midsized wins there.
     
  26. Apr 7, 2011
  27. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    This is a topic that I am currently looking into myself.
    I have managed to find out that it is very much to the player’s advantage to double up in particular scenarios.
    It is essentially a side bet with a return of 100% so you’re not losing anything or gaining anything.

    *If* you can accrue comps with the double up feature it means on those double up bets, it is essentially free comps.
    *If* the double up feature can be used to meet the play through of a bonus, essentially you are meeting the play through at no cost.
    Unfortunately, at most casinos you cannot accrue comps or meet play through with the double up feature.

    If you base the games return on the total amount wagered compared to total amount won it *will* increase the return of any game that has a return lower than 100%.

    For instance doubling up always on a 9/6 Jacks or Better will yield a return somewhere between 99.54%-100%.
    But I am told it does not affect the expected loss. (This is where I become confused.)

    The only real drawback is that it raises the games variance.
     
  28. Apr 7, 2011
  29. GamblersDen

    GamblersDen Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Webmaster, Internet Marketing
    Location:
    Cyprus
    You seem to be spot on so I'm not sure what you're confused about :D

    Disregarding whether or not doubling down counts for wagering or comp points, mathematically it makes sense to double up after each win. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Odds Bet in Craps, but it works similarly to the Double Up feature in VP. Let's say you have $15 you want to bet with in Craps. You can bet $15 on a Pass Line bert (1.41% house edge), or bet $5 on a Pass Line Bet(1.41% house edge) and $10 on an Odds Bet (0% house edge). Taking advantage of the 0% house edge bet you reduce the overall house edge to 0.61%. Now back to Video Poker:

    Looking at that, it makes sense that Doubling Up does change expected loss - in the long run expected loss will go down because instead of playing with a 99.51% expected return it will be somewhere between 99.51% and 100% (the more you double down the closer it will be to 100%).
     
  30. Apr 7, 2011
  31. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    If you are looking at expected loss as a percentage of the amount wagered, that’s true.
    But that is not what ‘expected loss’ means.
    Expected loss is from a static view point e.g. $100. This is what does not change.
    At least, thats how it was explained to me.
     
  32. Apr 7, 2011
  33. FourTeller

    FourTeller Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Here
  34. Apr 7, 2011
  35. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    It does not affect the expected loss because a 100% bet doesn't increase expected loss. If you could ONLY play the double up game in video poker without having to play the base game, your expected loss would always remain unchanged at zero.

    Increased variance is not a drawback in negative expectation games. In fact variance is the only thing that makes it possible for you to get ahead. Imagine a game with zero variance which returns EXACTLY $0.99 on EVERY $1 spin. A decent return percentage (99%) but a zero chance to get ahead.
     
  36. Apr 7, 2011
  37. H1_Roller

    H1_Roller Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    ...
    Location:
    ...
    I used to do it all the time at Casino On Net where, ironically (considering my luck there), their double or nothing on VP seemed totally fair and random.

    It's the "select a higher card than the dealer" double or nothing gamble. I've doubled 40 and 80 coin wins all the way up to 640 and once I even got one to 1280.

    If anything, it seemed to have an edge toward me rather than equal/toward the house.

    Nowadays, on MG casinos, I will try the odd one. I say to myself (for example) I will "hit every gamble that involves 3 queens" meaning 3 of a kind, full house, and four of a kind. It's definitely a case of you win some, you lose some.
     
  38. Apr 7, 2011
  39. Markus

    Markus Banned User - Violation of forum rule 1.10 - playe PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Berlin
    I use the Double Up feature very often because it is one of the few casino bets with no house edge or even a small player edge if comp points are credited for this bet.
    It is also very usefull for bonus play to reach the targeted balance, unfortunately often times it is not allowed if bonus is in use.
     

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