New Slot Announcement Donuts by Big Time Gaming

[goatwack]

It's a genius formula really, make game, state possible wins on it yet fully knowing statistically it is quite unlikely, promote the game to high heaven and watch people line up like lemmings to throw their money at it.

Sure, there may be a 10,000x at some point given its player base, but basically BTG have hoodwinked everyone (again) with their jackpot-esque bollocks.

But by all means people, keep playing. You've only had the three warnings before this

 

[mcgameboy]

"So it might well be that 100,000x is actually achievable."

yeah if its on the reels its just a matter of time before someone hits it. I give it about 3 months before we have screenies of that hit. Just like its with other btg games, their max potential hits dont come often, but. Well there is no but.

seriously now, why are we discussing max hit potential in slots where we know its just not going to happen?

speaking of which, it still doesnt really match bonanza with its potentially billion x hits that you could get on x51 multi and 128 ways of diamonds.

btg is really good at setting up seemingly unlimited potential for their slots so people go crazy about it. I mean it works for them so fair play to btg but discussing max potential win on btg slot is kinda pointless isnt it?

Because we can.

 

[nikantw]

"We’re talking the highest potential of any slot Big Time have done to date"

I am confused. Isn't the multiplier on Bonanza supposed to be unlimited? Doesn't that mean unlimited potential? Nothing is bigger than unlimited.
Didn't we ask BTG many times about Bonanza's true potential? Is he finally prepared to say it is limited to 20000x or 15000x or something?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

More Donuts slot play (several bonus rounds in this one).

SPECIAL GUEST STARS. Better slots than Donuts.

 

[greylady]

I watched someone throw £1400 at this today and I have to say it was mind numbing bloomin boring to watch, I think I would rather watch paint dry or watch the grass grow

 

[slotmaster]

Donuts the food is good, Donuts the slot is bad. slotmaster tip of the week.

 

[dunover]

Well in that same article I read it said the following - on the very next paragraph...

I’m super exited to see more and more players winning big from Donuts network-wide launch on the 4th of July. The pay table spells out the potential, with a base game hit that can deliver 7 boxes, four of which will open up the same Donuts. The other 3 could hold up to x4 Wilds, you can do the math and that’s just the base game! The feature is another thing altogether but be warned – the game is as highly volatile as games can get (to date)!

So I'm assuming (I might well be wrong though) that the 7 boxes would be distributed as follows: One box on reel 1, two boxes each on reels 2, 3 and 4.

If that is the case, then would that make the potential max base game win 4 (box of 4 donuts) x8 (box of 4 donuts plus 4x wild) x8 (same as reel 2) x8 (same as reel 2) = 2048 ways of 4 purple donuts @ 15x = 30,720x?

The thing is though it says it is up to 2,401 ways to win (ie 7x7x7x7=2401). So I'm wondering how you can get 8 ways per reel on reels 2, 3 and 4?
Perhaps the maths in the game means that you can't have a box of 4 donuts and a 4x wild on the same reel,
but you can have a box of 3 donuts and 4x wild or a box of 4 donuts and a 3x wild?
Who knows, I certainly don't, because I've just not played it long enough.

Even in freeplay mode, I've yet to see a reel put out a combo of anything better than a box of 4 donuts and a 2x wild (or a 3x wild and a box of 3).

As for the bonus, the boxes are removed. And I'm not sure about this, but I haven't seen any 2x, 3x or 4x wilds during the feature.
So maybe all wilds in the bonus are 1x wilds.
But even if that is the case, the loss of those boxes and 2x - 4x wilds would be offset somewhat by the huge multiplier potential.

For the record Mr. D, I have seen the purple donuts fully stacked on reel 4 during the feature, so that means you can get at least 4x2x2x4 of purples in the feature, which makes it 64 ways @ 15x = 960x before you even apply the multiplier.

So it might well be that 100,000x is actually achievable.

Yes, I said at LEAST 48 ways is possible. In the base game you are correct, you cannot get 4x donuts with a 4x Wild on the same reel, that was amended in the final version IIRC but wasn't in the first version I saw. I know this as the first version I saw before the approved final release had the ways listed differently to 2401, it was 4096 but because during testing it produced some insane casino-busting spins (over millions and millions of spins) Nik did tell me when approving me to make a final video that the maths had to be looked at again. This is not unusual at all when developers test a game over billions of spins and need to tweak things slightly. Simmo's AI was tweaked a few times to make the bonus rounds better for example, more volatile to give the chance of better hits commensurate with a HV game. P.S. Yes, I can confirm looking at the rules from the initial version I saw (not the final audited licensed one you play now) there were over 4,000 ways listed.

 

[Jd666]

Eleven gold donuts filled up on the spinny thing.
Still only ended up with 24x multiplier.
Won 48x on the bonus

 

[mack341]

The retrigger in the bonus round is very good, just 2 donuts required and you get another chance on the multiplier screen and 12 more free spins in the bonus. White rabbit occasionally retriggers but you can get between 1-12 extra spins, bonanza only gives you another 5 etc...

Watching chopley's latest vid I realised this is wrong , its 10 spins for the retrigger, still not a bad amount.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It's a genius formula really, make game, state possible wins on it yet fully knowing statistically it is quite unlikely, promote the game to high heaven and watch people line up like lemmings to throw their money at it.

Sure, there may be a 10,000x at some point given its player base, but basically BTG have hoodwinked everyone (again) with their jackpot-esque bollocks.

But by all means people, keep playing. You've only had the three warnings before this

This is entirely the point and one that folks really need to remember before getting involved with this slot.

Thanks to some excellent numbers from the Donuts Sim site - Old / Expired Link

We can see that in OVER 27000 RECORDED FEATURES, it's hit over 6000x stake twice, there are then two features at 3000x plus, and thereafter it's all under 3000x stake.

In over 27000 recorded features.

And as players we'd expected to wade through the world's dullest base game with appalling RTP, suffering an average feature hit frequency of 1/400, to gain access to the promised lands of the BIGGEST HIT EVER, that hasn't been seen once (or indeed anything close to it) in over 27000 recorded features.

You'd be better off just playing a progressive, as then if you hit the jackpot you're genuinely going to be winning a life-changing amount of money, instead of a couple of thousand pounds, or whatever it works out to, depending on your stake.

 

[slotter999]

You'd be better off just playing a progressive, as then if you hit the jackpot you're genuinely going to be winning a life-changing amount of money, instead of a couple of thousand pounds, or whatever it works out to, depending on your stake.

I was going to make this same point myself but couldn't be arsed in the end as I'm not sure the BTG fan club really care.

But yeah. If massively long odds of hitting the 'stuff of dreams' is your thing then jump on the progressives.

 

[nikantw]

I said it before. UKGC should get serious about this (MGA also). How are players supposed to make an informative decision to play without knowing the odds?
Feature odds, 10x, 100x, 1000x, 5000x and more odds should all be in the info pages of the slot.

 

[mack341]

I said it before. UKGC should get serious about this (MGA also). How are players supposed to make an informative decision to play without knowing the odds?
Feature odds, 10x, 100x, 1000x, 5000x and more odds should all be in the info pages of the slot.

yes I've been thinking this too, they continuously preach responsible gambling but have deliberately decided the gambler does not need to know the main odds of a game, the national lottery publish the odds of their prizes for the various games and people can decide which ones they want to play, so why shouldn't slot providers do the same?

 

[Reelsoffun]

I said it before. UKGC should get serious about this (MGA also). How are players supposed to make an informative decision to play without knowing the odds?
Feature odds, 10x, 100x, 1000x, 5000x and more odds should all be in the info pages of the slot.

I agree that we should be told where the RTP is on a game eg base, feature, bonus features etc but at the moment, they only tell us overall and what any progressive contribution is.

As you say this would give players an informed decision on the games to play and to avoid if you dont like the odds.

I cant see that ever happening however, as the math is usually a closely guarded secret, even though I dont really see the point with enough data you can get close to finding key points, and providers copy games and math models all the time.

But maybe a compromise would be for the slot providers to come up with a standardized volatility scale of say 1 - 5 although with BTG pushing higher and higher maybe 1 -10 is needed

Bonanza 9
Donus 10
Immortal romance 7
Phantoms curse 3

sort of thing

at least that way you would have some clue to what the slot really is before you commit loads of cash to it.

 

[goatwack]

I think designers should go the other way, so instead of volatility and odds, just be honest with chances of getting above your starting balance. Or just winning.

Bonanza- 2/ 10

Donuts- 1.5/ 10

Most other slots, even Quickspin, 5/ 10

 

[nikantw]

....as the math is usually a closely guarded secret, even though I dont really see the point with enough data you can get close to finding key points, and providers copy games and math models all the time.

Exactly. The claim that they can't say a few odds because it is part of Intellectual Property (IP) is ridiculous (any company can get the odds we need in a day or two by testing the slot).
The only reason they don't say a few odds is because they don't want the players to know.

 

[paul7388]

Exactly. The claim that they can't say a few odds because it is part of Intellectual Property (IP) is ridiculous (any company can get the odds we need in a day or two by testing the slot).
The only reason they don't say a few odds is because they don't want the players to know.

They would rather treat players like idiots.

They bang on about infinite number of free spins and multipliers which is impossible. There is no way on earth a slot can repeat indefinitely . Imagine hitting a free spins round that was still playing a week later. Exactly it is impossible.

But unfortunately there are players that still seem to believe that Bonanza etc. is capable of this 100,000 x stake win or even more. This multiple ways of diamonds with extremely high multiplier will never happen the slot will be programmed to make sure it cannot.

But if they were to turn around and say max win is 15000x stake and it is millions to 1 to hit it then that would end the dream of these people that seem to think this once in a lifetime hit is just waiting for them. Many slots can pay 10000x stake same as BTG slots. Just people seem to believe BTG slots can pay basically unlimited amounts.

 

[goatwack]

Netent: Better Gaming

BTG: The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing the World He Didn’t Exist

 

[paul7388]

Netent: Better Gaming

BTG: The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing the World He Didn’t Exist

And does he exist

 

[goatwack]

And does he exist

No! Of course not!

 

[Cyclops]

Capable of insane hits in the base game and bonus, a mighty game packed into 4 reels while still having a decent base game return. Are you sitting comfortably, as I personally love this slot and I think it will be a great success - wanna start your free spins with a 50x plus multiplier?

If in any doubt of the innovation constipation currently being suffered by the 'big' developers, just look at the thinking outside of the box here!

Looks good mate will try this one

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just a quick example of what this slot is capable of, I've had it churning away in demo play whilst enjoying some lovely golf on the splendid PS4 game 'EVERYBODY'S GOLF'.

From a starting balance of £1000, playing on £1 spins.....

My balance went down 456x stake before triggering a bonus round. (Must have been the best part of 1000 spins to trigger it, and I'll bet this slot can and will do worse than that.)

The bonus round then didn't add a single extra multiplier in the pre-spins round, so I went into the free spins with 12 spins at a x7 multiplier.

The bonus round paid 2.8x stake.

The design of this slot is absolutely filthy IMO. It makes Bonanza look like a pleasant Sunday afternoon picnic.

One of two things have happened, either BTG have moved a lot of RTP into the bonus round so there's less in the base game, or they've weighted the base game RTP more towards the big hits. (Or in fact, both of those things could have happened.)

Add in that 1/400 average feature trigger frequency, and I don't think I've ever seen a slot with such ruinous potential for a player's bankroll.

Agree entirely with the comments above, slot providers should be compelled by legislation to reveal the odds of events occurring on their slots, especially if BTG are going to explicitly pimp out their slots based on their INSANE WIN POTENTIAL, but with no requirement to inform players what their chances of hitting those wins actually are.

I think this slot should be rebranded DOCNUTS. Rearrange the letters to suit......

BONUS ROUND TRIGGER COSTING 456x STAKE.

BONUS ROUND PAYS 2.8x STAKE FROM A BASIC x7 TRIGGER, NO EXTRA GOLD DONUTS LANDED.

 

[goatwack]

I think a rebranding is in order, given these sorry stats.

"Presenting NoNuts by BTG, because before long you'll be left hanging, unlike them"

 

[slotter999]

I said it before. UKGC should get serious about this (MGA also). How are players supposed to make an informative decision to play without knowing the odds?
Feature odds, 10x, 100x, 1000x, 5000x and more odds should all be in the info pages of the slot.

The history behind this actually goes way back to when virtual reel stops were invented. The Nevada gaming commission basically took the arguments from the gaming companies that players didn't really want to know the odds and that the mystery of it all somehow made the overall experience more interesting to the customer. RTP was considered sufficient and so it was thus ever since.

Interesting thought : slot machines are the only form of fixed odds gambling where players have no idea what the odds are of a particular event happening are.

I suspect the real reason they don't want you to know the odds is because in many cases the odds are so long as to be completely unachievable (or at least seemingly) and would put people off.

But we can shine a light on these things if we collectively put our minds to it. Slot tracker was a fantastic tool but sadly was bought up by a casino affiliate business. I also think the uptake wasn't what it could have been but that is probably due to some decisions they took about how the tool would operate. Following on from that Torors has produced some excellent tools which have been made available to all wgich shine a light on bonanza and donuts yet there is very little interest from this forum around taking it further or it doesn't seem like it.

My recommendation would be to not rely on the regulators and take matters into your own hands. If those stats are important then do something about it because it's already been proven to be technically possible to extract the required information.

 

[mcgameboy]

I think designers should go the other way, so instead of volatility and odds, just be honest with chances of getting above your starting balance. Or just winning.

Bonanza- 2/ 10

Donuts- 1.5/ 10

Most other slots, even Quickspin, 5/ 10

You forgot the obvious ones my friend

Netent - 0.5/10

Yggdrasil - 0.1/10

 

[sufferinsilence]

Had a free fiver and decided to have a go at this one at 5 cents a spin. Absolutely nothing happened, the best win was 10x and no feature in sight before busting out after about 175 spins. Don't think I'll be returning with my own funds...

There must be a market for these brutal high variance slots but I think it's a bit too much for me. If you don't get that big hit very soon after starting playing you're never going to catch up and, in my case, you'll just give up on it.

 

[dunover]

This is entirely the point and one that folks really need to remember before getting involved with this slot.

Thanks to some excellent numbers from the Donuts Sim site - Old / Expired Link

We can see that in OVER 27000 RECORDED FEATURES, it's hit over 6000x stake twice, there are then two features at 3000x plus, and thereafter it's all under 3000x stake.

In over 27000 recorded features.

And as players we'd expected to wade through the world's dullest base game with appalling RTP, suffering an average feature hit frequency of 1/400, to gain access to the promised lands of the BIGGEST HIT EVER, that hasn't been seen once (or indeed anything close to it) in over 27000 recorded features.

You'd be better off just playing a progressive, as then if you hit the jackpot you're genuinely going to be winning a life-changing amount of money, instead of a couple of thousand pounds, or whatever it works out to, depending on your stake.

View attachment 92753

So, 4/27000 will pay over 3000x bet. Therefore about 1/7000 features. At a frequency of 1/400 spins that's a 1/2,800,000 chance of hitting a 3k+ result on any given spin. Assuming 1000 spins in a session that means in 2,800 sessions it would happen once. That is pretty typical for a HV game, that's how they work. If you're after a pooled progressive the odds against are astronomical compared to this. With a 0.99% RTP contribution say and seeding at £1m it would take £100million's worth of spins to raise that JP to £2m. Your odds would be around 100x to 1000x WORSE going for a progressive.

Then you forget that due to the HV nature of these games the reels maps are very large and complex so even with a true random stop on each (as opposed to selected 'full reels' results on the RNG's pool values) you could be looking at even on a 4-reeler like Do-your-nuts a 1000x base game hit could be something like 50x50x50x50 or 6,250,000/1. Even more in Bonanza.

I'm still seeing that people aren't grasping the true nature of how HV games are constructed and how their parse sheets are planned in order to provide both huge hit potential and some degree of playability.

TO REMIND YOU ALL - BONANZA AND DO-YOUR-NUTS ARE VERY VOLATILE GAMES!

 

[goatwack]

One thing quite noticeable with BTG in general is their aversion to bankroll- building. And one thing you'll never be able to accomplish is incremental betting, starting off fairly low and increasing bets with each passing win

Bonanza, and more so this slot, is aimed purely at the fly-by-night punters who aim to hope for a quick win, due to the AWP, jackpot-like nature of their math(s).

Basically get f***ed if you think you can have a long, satisfying, value for money session on them

Low variance> medium variance> high variance> really really high variance> intergalactic variance> BTG variance

 

[mcgameboy]

Had a free fiver and decided to have a go at this one at 5 cents a spin. Absolutely nothing happened, the best win was 10x and no feature in sight before busting out after about 175 spins. Don't think I'll be returning with my own funds...

There must be a market for these brutal high variance slots but I think it's a bit too much for me. If you don't get that big hit very soon after starting playing you're never going to catch up and, in my case, you'll just give up on it.

There clearly is a market for them. You only have to see the number of casinos literally queueing up to take their slots.
Rizk, GUTS, Cashmio, Casumo, Slotsmillion, VS, LeoVegas, Royal Panda to name but a handful. Bet365 and Sky Vegas also have a couple of BTG titles, but not all of them (Sky Vegas doesn't have DHV yet for some reason )

And it looks like Trada and 32Red are going to be the next to take BTG titles on.

And if 32Red are going to do that, then does that mean the likes of Fortune Lounge and Casino Rewards will follow suit?

Even Blueprint (which has a reputation for making games that deliver fairly weak payouts) have already created a Bonanza clone.
Clearly, they want a cut of the Megaways action.

Admittedly, I think BTG's variance is a little bit on the hot side for me to handle on a regular basis. I'm a hell of a lot more comfortable playing games like IR and Finer Reels, even though they are games that are every bit as capable of shredding a bankroll.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So, 4/27000 will pay over 3000x bet. Therefore about 1/7000 features. At a frequency of 1/400 spins that's a 1/2,800,000 chance of hitting a 3k+ result on any given spin. Assuming 1000 spins in a session that means in 2,800 sessions it would happen once. That is pretty typical for a HV game, that's how they work. If you're after a pooled progressive the odds against are astronomical compared to this. With a 0.99% RTP contribution say and seeding at £1m it would take £100million's worth of spins to raise that JP to £2m. Your odds would be around 100x to 1000x WORSE going for a progressive.

So in effect, the odds are so astronomically long when it comes to each of us an individual players, and the risk vector is about the same as a progressive (i.e. you're going to lose your money most of the time should you get involved), that you may as well play a slot where the 'incredibly long odds coming in' actually results in a meaningful pay.

2800 sessions, on average, to get a 3000x plus or better win. Sheesh!

BTG are creating these slots almost as 'pseudo-progressives', except should your number actually come up, you win a few grand instead of a few million.

Thanks for presenting the numbers as you have there dunover. Makes me realise how insane the entire venture is with batshit crazy slots like BTG are producing.

 

[sufferinsilence]

There clearly is a market for them. You only have to see the number of casinos literally queueing up to take their slots.
Rizk, GUTS, Cashmio, Casumo, Slotsmillion, VS, LeoVegas, Royal Panda to name but a handful. Bet365 and Sky Vegas also have a couple of BTG titles, but not all of them (Sky Vegas doesn't have DHV yet for some reason )

And it looks like Trada and 32Red are going to be the next to take BTG titles on.

And if 32Red are going to do that, then does that mean the likes of Fortune Lounge and Casino Rewards will follow suit?

Even Blueprint (which has a reputation for making games that deliver fairly weak payouts) have already created a Bonanza clone.
Clearly, they want a cut of the Megaways action.

Admittedly, I think BTG's variance is a little bit on the hot side for me to handle on a regular basis. I'm a hell of a lot more comfortable playing games like IR and Finer Reels, even though they are games that are every bit as capable of shredding a bankroll.

Donuts even was exclusive on Pokerstars casino for a while, they must've paid quite a bit for this and had a decent influx of slot players simply because of BTG's popularity.

Blueprint has made a deal with BTG to use the Megaways engine. They've made 2 slots so far based on Bonanza: Diamond Mine and Irish Riches. I've only been able to play Diamond Mine but so far I like it much better than Bonanza. Not only is the RTP slightly higher but they have the TNT feature and it seems to me the feature frequency is a bit better. Basegame is also on par with Bonanza. But bare in mind this might also be slightly biased as I've had more luck on Diamond Mine than Bonanza

I have given Bonanza a whole lot of spins when I was still playing it on a daily basis but these days I might give it 25 or 50 spins when I'm up on a deposit. Donuts might be the same for me. It's one of those slots you might want to try when you think your luck is in

 

[dunover]

So in effect, the odds are so astronomically long when it comes to each of us an individual players, and the risk vector is about the same as a progressive (i.e. you're going to lose your money most of the time should you get involved), that you may as well play a slot where the 'incredibly long odds coming in' actually results in a meaningful pay.

2800 sessions, on average, to get a 3000x plus or better win. Sheesh!

BTG are creating these slots almost as 'pseudo-progressives', except should your number actually come up, you win a few grand instead of a few million.

Thanks for presenting the numbers as you have there dunover. Makes me realise how insane the entire venture is with batshit crazy slots like BTG are producing.

I was actually going to do a video, informative, on this subject progressives vs. HV. OK, take a progressive with a mega jackpot. Imagine a bag with about 5 billion dried peas, one of which is gold. You get a 'pick' each spin for the base unit of the game, i.e. on a 25-liner you would get 25 picks per spin playing minimum stake. Paying 2.50 a spin you'd get 250 picks per spin and so-on, hence the chances increasing with higher stakes of pulling the golden pea out (OK, mentioning golden pea will no doubt entice Goatie here) and winning the progressive. This though is a SEPARATE entity in the slot maths paid for via a 0.99% fixed RTP contribution and doesn't affect features or base game events.

This where Chopley's comparison comes in, as the effect can be the same although the mechanic is very different.

So when constructing a HV game that provides THEORETICAL reel-map hits of say 50,000x bet it must be paid for, but not out of a fixed RTP shaving but in the pay tables. The games will have complex reel maps and a huge number of possible spins and outcomes and due to this they are tested for BILLIONS of spins and thoroughly checked for anomalous results, or results which could have too much of a negative effect on either players generally or the casino. In context of this fact, the Donuts test Chopley provided the link to is a very small sample and in testing you'd find a few million features would have been triggered. If say the biggest was 60,000x bet or in the base game 48,000x bet then a decision would be made on whether these are acceptable parameters for casinos and players alike, even though hellishly rare. The possibility of those wins WILL have a fractional result on the RTP for players generally in the base game/features, but you are talking around 0.0025% or something, far less than you would contribute to somebody else's progressive because obviously the amounts are far less.

So I can see the analogy using progressives, but the two things work very differently....

 

[Reelsoffun]

The history behind this actually goes way back to when virtual reel stops were invented. The Nevada gaming commission basically took the arguments from the gaming companies that players didn't really want to know the odds and that the mystery of it all somehow made the overall experience more interesting to the customer. RTP was considered sufficient and so it was thus ever since.

Following on from that Torors has produced some excellent tools which have been made available to all wgich shine a light on bonanza and donuts yet there is very little interest from this forum around taking it further or it doesn't seem like it.

My recommendation would be to not rely on the regulators and take matters into your own hands. If those stats are important then do something about it because it's already been proven to be technically possible to extract the required information.

The history behind virtual reels I believe was purely to increase the combinations possible to allow for bigger jackpots as a physical reel can not really accommodate more than 25 symbols on a reasonable size reel, so one of us will be right on that lol

There has been a bit of interest on @torors findings etc and I even PMed him about the donuts, but not heard back yet, the problem is you need more than just the reel strips to know whats going on with a slot.....


I think im probably one of only a few that like donuts, but thats because I have had some wins on it and the fact i love it that you can low roll on 5p If they made a bonanza go to that stake they would have a new lamb to the slaughter erm I mean player LOL

 

[torors]

Reel sets can be found here: Old / Expired Link

RST_0 is basegame, 1 is feature.

12 is scatter, 11 is box, 10 is purple donut, 1 is nine, 0 is wild.

I can't really see how seven boxes in one base game hit is possible. Maybe @Big Time Gaming can shed some light?

 

[GoldenGhoul]

Good data in this thread, I suppose this seems like a perfect slot to go for a few spins on 5 cents when the balance is nearing zero and hope for that mythical hit, I'm probably not going to touch it on higher stakes much but it's nice to have something to play 5 cents a spin apart from Book of Dead with 5 active lines.

 

[mcgameboy]

Reel sets can be found here: Old / Expired Link

RST_0 is basegame, 1 is feature.

12 is scatter, 11 is box, 10 is purple donut, 1 is nine, 0 is wild.

I can't really see how seven boxes in one base game hit is possible. Maybe @Big Time Gaming can shed some light?

Some of the 0s have to be "box wilds" then. There are instances where both a 0 and an 11 are able to land on the reels. The screenshots below are the "before and after" for the box on bottom of reel 3.

If you look at the base game reel set for reel 3, there is a section of 4 "spots" where the sequence is 8,4,11,0.

Which would suggest* that the symbols (on the base game reel set only) are actually....

12 - scatter
11 - box
10 - nine
9 - ten
8 - J
7 - Q
6 - K
5 - A
4 - green donut
3 - blue donut (why is it not 3 for green donut and 4 for blue? )
2 - red donut
1 - purple donut

I also noticed a few "13s" on the feature reel sets (I don't see any 13s on the base game reel sets). So what symbol is 13 supposed to represent?

I am getting the very odd notion that the symbols coding (on the feature only) is what you said it was ie 10 for purple donut, 0 for wild, 11 for box (there are no 11s anywhere on the feature reel sets)

I'm a bit confused by this to be honest.

* ONLY my opinion, I'm not prepared to state it as fact.

 

[slotter999]

The history behind virtual reels I believe was purely to increase the combinations possible to allow for bigger jackpots as a physical reel can not really accommodate more than 25 symbols on a reasonable size reel, so one of us will be right on that lol

Yes that is why virtual reels were invented, however, prior to that it was possible to look at the physical reels and calculate the odds or at least be somewhat more informed. For example the use of virtual reels which are also asymmetric means you'll experience behaviour consistent with 'nearly' hitting the bonus when in actual fact you're not really close at all. With mechanical reels you could at least peer at the reels and you could figure out that reel 1 and reel 2 have loads of scatters but reel 3 has only 1. Once that moved to virtual reels it became almost impossible for the average person to figure out. I can't (re) find the history story behind it but there was definitely a moment when the gaming commission considered making the odds mandatory but the providers managed to convince them otherwise.

 

[SpinUk]

So, 4/27000 will pay over 3000x bet. Therefore about 1/7000 features. At a frequency of 1/400 spins that's a 1/2,800,000 chance of hitting a 3k+ result on any given spin. Assuming 1000 spins in a session that means in 2,800 sessions it would happen once. That is pretty typical for a HV game, that's how they work. If you're after a pooled progressive the odds against are astronomical compared to this. With a 0.99% RTP contribution say and seeding at £1m it would take £100million's worth of spins to raise that JP to £2m. Your odds would be around 100x to 1000x WORSE going for a progressive.

Then you forget that due to the HV nature of these games the reels maps are very large and complex so even with a true random stop on each (as opposed to selected 'full reels' results on the RNG's pool values) you could be looking at even on a 4-reeler like Do-your-nuts a 1000x base game hit could be something like 50x50x50x50 or 6,250,000/1. Even more in Bonanza.

I'm still seeing that people aren't grasping the true nature of how HV games are constructed and how their parse sheets are planned in order to provide both huge hit potential and some degree of playability.

TO REMIND YOU ALL - BONANZA AND DO-YOUR-NUTS ARE VERY VOLATILE GAMES!

Those megawins do impact the lesser wins massively, and as I have mentioned, I do not think they are needed apart from a PR exercise from the providers.

Putting the above numbers in context of 1 in 2.8 million for anything above 3000x, immortal romance chances of a 4 reeler paying on average circa 2000x is something approaching 1 in 300,000. I personally have had 3 and play this game almost daily. So the chances of getting something marginally larger for almost 10x the amount of spins isnt really a big pull. Before video captures and streaming were common there is no way this slot would have been made the way it has been.

 

[torors]

Some of the 0s have to be "box wilds" then. There are instances where both a 0 and an 11 are able to land on the reels. The screenshots below are the "before and after" for the box on bottom of reel 3.

View attachment 92773

View attachment 92774

If you look at the base game reel set for reel 3, there is a section of 4 "spots" where the sequence is 8,4,11,0.

Which would suggest* that the symbols (on the base game reel set only) are actually....

12 - scatter
11 - box
10 - nine
9 - ten
8 - J
7 - Q
6 - K
5 - A
4 - green donut
3 - blue donut (why is it not 3 for green donut and 4 for blue? )
2 - red donut
1 - purple donut

I also noticed a few "13s" on the feature reel sets (I don't see any 13s on the base game reel sets). So what symbol is 13 supposed to represent?

I am getting the very odd notion that the symbols coding (on the feature only) is what you said it was ie 10 for purple donut, 0 for wild, 11 for box (there are no 11s anywhere on the feature reel sets)

I'm a bit confused by this to be honest.

* ONLY my opinion, I'm not prepared to state it as fact.

You're right. I had them mixed up.

The reel stops for the spin in the screenshot were 154, 60, 59, 84.

 

[steveh35]

It had to happen at some points I had 45p left from £11.00

 

[snorky510238]

I thought I will give it a whirl tonight. On 30p spins ( thought even that could be risky). Couldn’t believe it gives me the bonus first spin and x61 multiplier. Paid x330. 5 spins later it comes again on x74 multiplier and retriggers. Paid x180.A bit disappointing to be fair ( given high multiplier and retrigger)but still for what it cost me not a bad result. On the second bonus I had 15 dead spins in a row which is a killer to watch and I am not keen on the slow spin when a win is coming because if it doesn’t do it you know it’s a miss straight away which removes the fun. It would have been better if they had only done the slow spin if the win was going to be say x50 or higher. Just my opinion.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Some of the 0s have to be "box wilds" then. There are instances where both a 0 and an 11 are able to land on the reels. The screenshots below are the "before and after" for the box on bottom of reel 3.

View attachment 92773

View attachment 92774

If you look at the base game reel set for reel 3, there is a section of 4 "spots" where the sequence is 8,4,11,0.

Which would suggest* that the symbols (on the base game reel set only) are actually....

12 - scatter
11 - box
10 - nine
9 - ten
8 - J
7 - Q
6 - K
5 - A
4 - green donut
3 - blue donut (why is it not 3 for green donut and 4 for blue? )
2 - red donut
1 - purple donut

I also noticed a few "13s" on the feature reel sets (I don't see any 13s on the base game reel sets). So what symbol is 13 supposed to represent?

I am getting the very odd notion that the symbols coding (on the feature only) is what you said it was ie 10 for purple donut, 0 for wild, 11 for box (there are no 11s anywhere on the feature reel sets)

I'm a bit confused by this to be honest.

* ONLY my opinion, I'm not prepared to state it as fact.

13 on bonus reel set? golden donut? ( scatter )

 

[mcgameboy]

13 on bonus reel set? golden donut? ( scatter )

It must be that. There are no "12s" on the bonus reel set.

 

[curremon]

now i have played over 2000 spins and rtp is 54% ... this is my last feature... NEVER AGAIN

 

[shadow123]

Think there is something not right with this game,6000 plays 79%,no other BGT is that bad.
All we hear is what great potential it has but does not seem to be delivering.
Think this is one game that actually does need the feature buy,as the base game is really
brain destroying and any massive wins if they exist are going to happen in the free spins.
Only using it for battle wins on min stake now,I have no confidence in it

 

[curremon]

Or atleast they should have put chance of golden donut in boxes...

 

[nikantw]

My "Donuts" so far....... waiting for an "RTP correction" that may never come

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You're in the same sort of place I was with Afterlife Inferno, technically speaking you're only one big hit from getting back to expected RTP, but considering the profile of Donuts things could stay the same or get worse for an awfully long time before you hit anything like the kind of feature that'd get you back to the expected place.

(On my second Donuts session I actually had a pretty good run of features, but even that only managed to take my RTP fro 68% to 80%)

It's up to you really, keep on chasing it, which of course comes with financial risks - or do what I did with Afterlife Inferno, write the money off and give up on the slot as a lost cause. (Which is what I've decided to do with Donuts as well.)

 

[nikantw]

My "Donuts" so far....... waiting for an "RTP correction" that may never come

View attachment 92892

Forgot the rule "weekend booster comes with 42% RTP"

 

[nikantw]

And today....

Going like this I am going to need a 30,000x win for my "RTP correction"