Deleted member 57619 vs King Billy Casino

[colinsunderland]

again I apologize, it was so strange because colinsunderland last reply of what he claimed I said in the AskGamblers forum thread before I posted the pm, was the total opposite of what he now pm'ed me!!! and it just made me wonder about certain members here!!! I guess I did it in haste without thinking!

I have read all the forum rules now, and apologize sincerely!!!!!

no it wasn't the exact opposite.
I told you it was hard to understand the rules, and that I understood that it wasn't your fault, but I also told you your calculations were wrong, and that the rep made it clear you weren't getting paid, so I would find another casino to play at, then offered to let you know of others I know are trustworth if you let me know where you are and what you like playing.

Nothing what I said was the opposite of what my last post before you sent me a PM stated.

Don't make me out to be a liar again or I will destroy you.

 

[thr0b]

Don't make me out to be a liar again or I will destroy you.

 

[Gaz237]

no it wasn't the exact opposite.
I told you it was hard to understand the rules, and that I understood that it wasn't your fault, but I also told you your calculations were wrong, and that the rep made it clear you weren't getting paid, so I would find another casino to play at, then offered to let you know of others I know are trustworth if you let me know where you are and what you like playing.

Nothing what I said was the opposite of what my last post before you sent me a PM stated.

Don't make me out to be a liar again or I will destroy you.

Love it .

The OP is so full of it and not the sharpest tool in the box.

Thinking he can copy and past, only the part of a PM which suits his agenda, was never going to end well.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

well in the end all that matters is that colinsunderland said that king billy is not trustworthy and the cashback scheme is ambiguous, and that it wasn't my fault. and again the math is not right because ruslan is adding in gross wins not net wins in the equation. like what Paul said if I bet 150 I win 150, not 300!! thanks for all your input but I will wait on The Pogg for their response!!

 

[colinsunderland]

well in the end all that matters is that colinsunderland said that king billy is not trustworthy and the cashback scheme is ambiguous, and that it wasn't my fault. and again the math is not right because ruslan is adding in gross wins not net wins in the equation. like what Paul said if I bet 150 I win 150, not 300!! thanks for all your input but I will wait on The Pogg for their response!!

What did I say about calling me a liar? I posted what I said in my PM reply to your unsolicited PM. I didn't say kingbilly were 'not trustworthy' at all. The lies you are telling on here, no wonder you are having problems getting paid.

Still don't see anything relating to you on the Pogg

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Slottery]

I'm confused for many different way about this thread, just have to post something to stay tuned if there finally is place who gives you more cashback than you deposit (thought arbs only exist in betting/exchange world).

Even more wondering why to spend so much time and energy to fights against windmills, even though OP would be 100% right, why casino who operate under Curacao license would change their opinion, especially when they in their honest opinion are right (and in this case so far it seems one person who disagrees in this thread)? Even they would be wrong, there's no really legislation to make them change their mind or at least don't hear many stories about people and successful Curacao court cases.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

 

[The Dude]

Even more wondering why to spend so much time and energy to fights against windmills, even though OP would be 100% right, why casino who operate under Curacao license would change their opinion, especially when they in their honest opinion are right (and in this case so far it seems one person who disagrees in this thread)? Even they would be wrong, there's no really legislation to make them change their mind or at least don't hear many stories about people and successful Curacao court cases.

I get where you are coming from, but even though they may be licensed in a flaccid gambling licensing jurisdiction, it doesn't mean they won't do the right thing. There are a number of casinos licensed there that have been in business for decades and rely on proper ethical casino managerial behavior. So I would not tarnish them with the same brush.

 

[The Dude]

@nirankali what is your point in posting all of this? Can't you just wait until thepogg finishes what he has started? I mean, if he rules in favor of the casino, you're going to have a lot of egg on your face.

 

[Slottery]

I get where you are coming from, but even though they may be licensed in a flaccid gambling licensing jurisdiction, it doesn't mean they won't do the right thing. There are a number of casinos licensed there that have been in business for decades and rely on proper ethical casino managerial behavior. So I would not tarnish them with the same brush.

Badly phrased, meant more that if casino have already replied to OP:s official complaint, there is not many ways left to casino change their mind after they have reviewed it for that complaint and nothing new have appear. Feels just really final decision for me, would license be whichever (for MGA there is working complaint channel but to Curacao not that much).

 

[The Dude]

Badly phrased, meant more that if casino have already replied to OP:s official complaint, there is not many ways left to casino change their mind after they have reviewed it for that complaint and nothing new have appear. Feels just really final decision for me, would license be whichever (for MGA there is working complaint channel but to Curacao not that much).

Oh - I meant that too, but was using telepathy. Yes, if a casino is licensed there, you can only hope that they will do the right thing.

And just to add - we have had a number of casinos change their minds after they have listened to us during the PAB process. They don't always get it right the first time 'round. This is the importance for having good relationships with casino operators, and who are willing to listen to the voice of reason.

 

[maxd]

And just to add - we have had a number of casinos change their minds after they have listened to us during the PAB process. They don't always get it right the first time 'round. This is the importance for having good relationships with casino operators, and who are willing to listen to the voice of reason.

Just jumping in here to add that there's another aspect to this that tends to skew things toward casinos cleaning off their glasses and taking a second look: internally complaints are often handled by junior (and all too often poorly trained) staff. When we come to the casino with the case the warning flag often gets run a lot further up the pole, meaning that if they give a damn it's often someone more senior making the call, exactly because it's us (or another respected ADR for that matter).

Casumo is (was) a great example, I've been dealing directly with senior staff for years. That's changed recently but the point is that there have been a good many cases that got looked into a lot deeper exactly because of that relationship.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

So that would make you guys (The Pogg, Casinomeister) super hero's trying to protect civilians from casinos that are doing injustice, in a city (curaçao) that's not policed well! Kind of like the Avengers!!

 

[Deleted member 57619]

no response from The Pogg, but my vip rep said that The Pogg escalated the complaint to their service provider soft Swiss and none of the managers would be in on the investigation. I'm confused bc I'm a newbie and asking what this means??

 

[Fredos386]

And i thought i was the crazy one... lol at least when i complain i don't expect casinos to give me more money from a cashback than my deposit or whatever it is. I just read the thread and wonder if it's trolling or not lol. Some guy got insanely lucky from a casino mistake... if it was me i wouldve shadap and hide somewhere not go crazy after the casino for correcting the mistake lol. What were you thinking? That you would make millions in profits from a promo? I mean common sense says no casino in the world would run a promo where they give you every week more than your deposits. Jeez... time for me to go back do some voodoo with my dolls i think i saw enough...

p.s.: I'm probably one, if not the biggest ally you could've found in here to fight casinos for issues of whatever kind. But what i see here is mass delusion at such a level... Really, complain and want to sue the whole world after the thousands you got paid by mistake already? Jeez that's people like you that give the casinos so much tools to fak up the real victims.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

go look up on google total bet - winning amount for cashback and you will see what that is, your accusing a newbie who just want answers from a adr nothing more and to speak about this publicly! everyone has their opinions and have a right to it, doesn't mean their right! Anyways google cashback on total bets, and you'll get the answers!! my question has always remained the same, is it based on net wins or gross wins? UKGC website also speaks about how total bet cashbacks are calculated as well. Dude isn't this how newbies get answers by going to authority and filing a claim? like how would it work if I police officers arrested and charged people then found them guilty without taking them to court? lol!! I haven't provided all the info because honestly The Pogg investigation is pending so I don't need to! and if The Pogg says that I was wrong and then I'll take all of those eggs on my face, cook it up scrambled, with lots of ketchup! But hey I guess I would have learned something, and thats how you do it by asking questions!!!

P.S... I still play at King Billy Casino, like yesterday night all night, because I have never once had a problem with them cashing out!!!

 

[Gaz237]

go look up on google total bet - winning amount for cashback and you will see what that is, your accusing a newbie who just want answers from a adr nothing more and to speak about this publicly! everyone has their opinions and have a right to it, doesn't mean their right! Anyways google cashback on total bets, and you'll get the answers!! my question has always remained the same, is it based on net wins or gross wins? UKGC website also speaks about how total bet cashbacks are calculated as well. Dude isn't this how newbies get answers by going to authority and filing a claim? like how would it work if I police officers arrested and charged people then found them guilty without taking them to court? lol!! I haven't provided all the info because honestly The Pogg investigation is pending so I don't need to! and if The Pogg says that I was wrong and then I'll take all of those eggs on my face, cook it up scrambled, with lots of ketchup! But hey I guess I would have learned something, and thats how you do it by asking questions!!!

P.S... I still play at King Billy Casino, like yesterday night all night, because I have never once had a problem with cashing out!!!

I can only presume someone made a complete balls up with your first payment.

If you sat down and thought this through properly, no casino would be able to stay in business with this kind of cash back.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

I can only presume someone made a complete balls up with your first payment.

If you sat down and thought this through properly, no casino would be able to stay in business with this kind of cash back.

and if you looked online and researched this, maybe you can could give a better explanation, but all I see from you is picking sides and without no evidence to prove your claims and fail to show me that I was incorrect in my calculations! so honestly your opinions go way over my head!

 

[neon claws]

Show me one site paying cashback on wagering losses instead of net loss and I'll join up there instantly and be a millionaire within a week.

The only interesting thing here is how the casino rep said it was calculated automatically, I can't see how this guy got such a big payout initially if that were the case.

Unless he'd complained and had them manually adjust for their "error".

E: although his numbers don't add up with the casino saying he only lost $250.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

 

[paul7388]

View attachment 145969View attachment 145970View attachment 145972View attachment 145974View attachment 145975

All the damned bits you keep showing underlined are actually proving why you are wrong.

Everyone has explained to you how it works but you seem either unwilling or unable to grasp the way cashback works.

Now 4 pages of you still trying to prove you are right.

Good luck to you on your continued quest . But like everyone has told you no casino could afford to operate the way you think it should.

Will leave you to it as no point anyone wasting anymore time trying to explain it.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

All the damned bits you keep showing underlined are actually proving why you are wrong.

Everyone has explained to you how it works but you seem either unwilling or unable to grasp the way cashback works.

Now 4 pages of you still trying to prove you are right.

Good luck to you on your continued quest . But like everyone has told you no casino could afford to operate the way you think it should.

Will leave you to it as no point anyone wasting anymore time trying to explain it.

again another person giving their opinion about how I'm wrong and can't prove it with factual evidence! it seems like your just picking sides bud!! wouldn't be helpful in a forum discussion to provide me with evidence to support your theory?

 

[paul7388]

again another person giving their opinion about how I'm wrong and can't prove it with factual evidence! it seems like your just picking sides bud!! wouldn't be helpful in a forum discussion to provide me with evidence to support your theory?

Are you for real. You just posted a bit that says total bets - total winnings - withdrawals . That explains why you are wrong.

You know what you have had pages of people telling you how it works and explaining it with facts. You are either trolling and taking the piss or you really cannot understand basic things you are told.

Either way i am not picking sides as if you look back i was one of the first to tell you you were wrong. But guess you probably unable to realize that.

Lol will let you waste your life posting same crap every day. Sad thing is i think you actually believe you are right.

 

[neon claws]

Wait a minute... I think I actually agree with the op.

Reading back over it I think he's right?

He's been playing games with very low RTP apparently near 50% in his first example.
This means his total wagers vs total winnings has a huge disparity, and if it is indeed meant to be calculated as he says.. I think he's right?

It doesn't say "total deposits", it says "total bets".

E: although his numbers don't jive with the casino saying he only lost $250

 

[paul7388]

Wait a minute... I think I actually agree with the op.

Reading back over it I think he's right?

He's been playing games with very low RTP apparently near 50% in his first example.
This means his total wagers vs total winnings has a huge disparity, and if it is indeed meant to be calculated as he says.. I think he's right?

It doesn't say "total deposits", it says "total bets".

E: although his numbers don't jive with the casino saying he only lost $250

Deposits are irrelevant so is the RTP of games.

No matter what way you look at it if the cashback is say 10% of all bets - winnings then no matter how long you play and whatever you play if your starting balance was 1000 the most you can lose would be 1000 and cashback would be max 100.

 

[neon claws]

Oh wait...

Are you halving your "winnings" because of this logic?

"Well if I'm gambling on live baccarat and I bet $1500, and I win, I get back $3000. Because when I made that initial bet of $1500, it was withdrawn out of my balance and then when I won I got $3000, but in reality I only won $1500."

Because that'd explain why you think you're getting <50% RTP which over such a large amount shouldn't be possible.

Yeah I think that's the rub- you've miscalculated your wagered losses.

 

[neon claws]

Deposits are irrelevant so is the RTP of games.

No matter what way you look at it if the cashback is say 10% of all bets - winnings then no matter how long you play and whatever you play if your starting balance was 1000 the most you can lose would be 1000 and cashback would be max 100.

Yeah my bad, looks like he's doubled his total wagered bets in his calculations.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

no I haven't I have all the bet logs that kingbilly sent me I can forward you the email! the dispute is not over the wager losses thats proven on another forum, it over the winning amount!

 

[neon claws]

@nirankali here is where you're wrong:

deposit=16k
($641,961-$290,712.7-0)*0.1= $35,124.9

If you deposited 16,000, bet 641,961 and won 290,712 your balance would be -$340,000CAD or so.

 

[vorcirion]

Wait a minute... I think I actually agree with the op.

Reading back over it I think he's right?

He's been playing games with very low RTP apparently near 50% in his first example.
This means his total wagers vs total winnings has a huge disparity, and if it is indeed meant to be calculated as he says.. I think he's right?

It doesn't say "total deposits", it says "total bets".

E: although his numbers don't jive with the casino saying he only lost $250

With his calculations he lost 350k. But how can you lose 350k with 16k deposit?
If he indeed deposited 16k in total and lost it. He should get 1,6k as a cashback with that 10%. Numbers are way off in this case.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

this is what ruslan posted on another forum and I'm quoting him this is not me and he has the exact wager losses as I do!
had to edit it bc I didn't have the same total bets as on page one but lets go with his number
and for Oct 28 - Nov 02, 2020
deposit=8k
($780,755-$333,435.25-$483)*0.1=$44,683.68
since I can only get $7500 max for cashback
667.09-7500=$6,832.91 CAD

"
Dear Forum, dear Prince,First of all, let us point out something about cashback calculations. Obviously, all the basic calculations in an online casino are done by special software automatically, without intervention of human agent – it would be impossible with 600.000+ King Billy Casino Citizens to do otherwise. What does this mean? That cashbacks are by default, calculated correctly, disputing them is like arguing with a calculator.However, still, rare errors may occur, usually on the positive side for customers. Because of a player’s VIP status and value for a casino, sometimes players get extra cashback, on top of what they are entitled to, which is actually added by human agents (based on this principle, the Prince actually got 117 CAD more in his cashback for the last week).Now, regarding the period of Cashback from October 29, 2020 to November 04, 2020 (we would like to stress these dates, so that all of us understand the same things):• Period of Cashback 29.10 - 04.11.2020
• Total bet sum: 780 755 CAD
• Winning total amount: 774 670 CAD
• Net loss amount: 6084 CAD
• Bonus amount issued within the period: 483 CAD (very important, always calculated in cashbacks)
• Prince Cashback Formula: Total bet sum (780 755 CAD) – Winning total Amount (774 670 CAD) – Issued Bonuses (483 CAD) *0,1
• Final Cashback according to the above official King Billy formula: 560 CAD
• The Prince got 677 CAD from us during this period (117 CAD more as we said before), but you know, Princes do have their special privileges.

APPENDIX TO THE ABOVE:
• For the period of Oct 29 to Nov 4, the Prince also got 4266 CAD as Cashback for the previous week of Oct 22 to October 28 (by our T&C’s, this amount is not calculated into cashback)
• For the period of Oct 29 to Nov 4, the Prince also got 1092 CAD from our King’s Points program (by our T&C’s, this amount is not calculated into cashback)

We hope the situation is now clear,



The King Billy Team"

 

[Deleted member 57619]

because to qualify for the weekly cashback you need to deposit a min of 750 cad. I did that
now they do a tally of your weekly total bets that week - your weekly wins that week - bonus

 

[Deleted member 57619]

but what ruslan posted in the total winning that week was gross wins not net wins and this is the argument. he is saying that

if I'm gambling on live baccarat and I bet $1500, and I win, I get back $3000. Because when I made that initial bet of $1500, it was withdrawn out of my balance and then when I won I got $3000, but in reality I only won $1500.

hes calculating 3000 for each bet which is gross wins not 1500 which is net wins

 

[Deleted member 57619]

and when he talks about I got paid more than what I was supposed to get he's talking about the 2nd week where I got 100 more dollars not the 4200, he says clearly states that the system automatically updated everything! and never mentions that 4200 was overpaid at all.

 

[vorcirion]

and when he talks about I got paid more than what I was supposed to get he's talking about the 2nd week where I got 100 more dollars not the 4200, he says clearly states that the system automatically updated everything! and never mentions that 4200 was overpaid at all.

If you deposited 16k (and lost it) that week when you got 4200 as a cashback...that would be about 26% cashback. You were supposed to get around 10% right? You should be happy that you got that much or there are some completely wrong numbers going on.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

With his calculations he lost 350k. But how can you lose 350k with 16k deposit?

first of all remember guys I'm playing live baccarat so when there is a tie no one wins there were numerous times that this happened to me and it happens a lot.
again that week was an up and down week, like I would bet 1500 lose then 1500 and win so that counts as 1500 for net winning amount but 3000 for total bets that happend a lot it was an up and down week as goes with baccarat.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

If you deposited 16k (and lost it) that week when you got 4200 as a cashback...that would be about 26% cashback. You were supposed to get around 10% right? You should be happy that you got that much or there are some completely wrong numbers going on.

no because thats not how weekly cashbacks on total bet wagered is based on, what your talking about is a deposit cashback.

 

[vorcirion]

first of all remember guys I'm playing live baccarat so when there is a tie no one wins there were numerous times that this happened to me and it happens a lot.
again that week was an up and down week, like I would bet 1500 lose then 1500 and win so that counts as 0 for winning amount but that 3000 for total bets
that happend a lot it was an up and down week as goes with baccarat.

Yeah you bet 1500 and lose ---> 0 to winnings. Then you bet 1500 and win ---> 3000 to winnings. That's 3000 total bets and 3000 total winnings. You should be where you started and haven't lost a single dollar. Dunno what's the problem here.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

I edited it so I if bet 1500 and won then bet 1500 and lost, that would be total bet 3000 and net wins 1500, see thats why I was asking is it calculated net wins or gross wins. again there is nothing in the promotion that had total winning or total winning bet. thats where the confusion is. all it had was winning amount!

 

[vorcirion]

I edited it so I if bet 1500 and won then bet 1500 and lost, that would be total bet 3000 and net wins 1500, see thats why I was asking is it calculated net wins or gross wins

Of course it should be calculated as gross wins. Otherwise the system wouldn't work at all. (total bet amount - winning amount - bonus) * 0.1.
Let's say if you bet 5k and it's a push...you get 5k back. So your net win is 0. Then you're suddenly getting cashback for that (5k (total bet amount) - 0 (winning amount)) * 0.1 = 500. Why should you get that 500 as a cashback when you haven't lost anything?

 

[Deleted member 57619]

sorry I was wrong about the the tie bet! and what you said just proved my point exact, wow I can't believe I never thought about this. I never checked the logs for the tie bet because what your saying is exactly how it should be!! your a genius!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 57619]

so if I bet 500 and its a tie on the gaming logs it shows gross wins 0, but on the net wins 500

 

[vorcirion]

so if I bet 500 and its a tie on the gaming logs it shows gross wins 0, but on the net wins 500

Nope...gross win there is 500 and net win is 0.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

ok on the gaming logs there is column that says payoff sum which they claim on there calculations as gross wins from ruslan above calculations

and a column of profit which is net wins

so when I get a tie the payoff sum is 0
and the profit is 500

 

[vorcirion]

ok on the gaming logs there is column that says payoff sum which they claim on there calculations as gross wins from ruslan above calculations

and a column of profit which is net wins

so when I get a tie the payoff sum is 0
and the profit is 500

I don't know what it looks like there but! You deposited 16k and got over 4k as a cashback. That's still 26% cashback instead of 10% that it should've been. You should be happy and move on.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

wow! now your changing your argument instead of aggreeing with your original argument. you try to make a point and then change it up

 

[Gaz237]

and if you looked online and researched this, maybe you can could give a better explanation, but all I see from you is picking sides and without no evidence to prove your claims and fail to show me that I was incorrect in my calculations! so honestly your opinions go way over my head!

There is a multitude of members on this forum, who have years and years of experience, plus Casino mangers, some who have commented on this thread.

Now, not a single person has agreed with you, or your figures.

You are posting pictures which prove your figures are wrong.

You keep saying that anyone who disagrees with you are taking sides with the Casino.

So either the collective group of this forum, plus other forums are wrong, or you are wrong?.

Now i like a bet but the odds are way to short on us, and your horse only has 3 legs.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

vorcirion proved I'm right what are you talking about, exactly what he argued for is exactly how the gaming logs suggest!!!!!

 

[vorcirion]

vorcirion proved I'm right what are you talking about, exactly what he argued for is exactly how the gaming logs suggest!!!!!

If casino is using those numbers I gave...from push situations adding 0 to gross wins. And using gross wins to calculate the cashback then casino is giving too much to players and they should check their coding.
And you still should be happy since you're getting much more than you should.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

they are using Soft Swiss platform which provides over 50 casinos worldwide, so your telling me that Soft Swiss is wrong???