Deleted member 57619 vs King Billy Casino

[vorcirion]

they are using Soft Swiss platform which provides over 50 casinos worldwide, so your telling me that Soft Swiss is wrong???

I don't know what they are using to calculate cashbacks. But to me it seems that they are giving much more to players than they should according to their own rules.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

what are you talking about, it clearly states total bets - winning amount, like now I know that your again one sided like, first you come to me with facts to prove your point. then the ironic part was that It proved my point exactly now your going on a red herring tangent that they are giving more then they should. like you don't even make any sense bruh, at all. when you apply for a cashback credit card, everything is in the terms and conditions down to the decimal. it clearly states in every regulation from ukgc to mga that the terms and conditions cannot be ambiguous, and if it is then the outcome is rewarded to the player!!

 

[Halvor]

what are you talking about, it clearly states total bets - winning amount, like now I know that your again one sided like, first you come to me with facts to prove your point. then the ironic part was that It proved my point exactly now your going on a red herring tangent that they are giving more then they should. like you don't even make any sense bruh, at all. when you apply for a cashback credit card, everything is in the terms and conditions down to the decimal. it clearly states in every regulation from ukgc to mga that the terms and conditions cannot be ambiguous, and if it is then the outcome is rewarded to the player!!

If we for one second look past the insanity of thinking a casino will ever offer cashback deals that will put them out of business... What relevance does regulations that do not apply for you have to do with anything here?

And can you stop accusing everyone that disagrees with you of being somewhat bought and paid for by the casino? Doubt you'll get any more support with that attitude...

 

[mina1929]

This is a very interesting and confusing thread.

 

[neon claws]

With his calculations he lost 350k. But how can you lose 350k with 16k deposit?
If he indeed deposited 16k in total and lost it. He should get 1,6k as a cashback with that 10%. Numbers are way off in this case.

yep I got there in the end, see post above yours

 

[Gaz237]

vorcirion proved I'm right what are you talking about, exactly what he argued for is exactly how the gaming logs suggest!!!!!

Err, no he didn't. He agrees with the rest of us.

 

[neon claws]

The crux of the matter is this:

deposit=16k
($641,961-$290,712.7-0)*0.1= $35,124.9

@nirankali - where are you getting these figures?
How do you account for a $350,000 discrepancy between your total bets, total winnings and deposit amount?

Because it looks very much to me like you've doubled the "total bets" figure based on a misunderstanding of how a wagers net position is calculated.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

who did I email my betting logs to

 

[neon claws]

who did I email my betting logs to

What? I don't know dude...

So what I'm guessing has happened here is you've got logs from somewhere that maybe has a mislabeled column showing the word gross instead of net or vice versa, you've taken this literally and taken it to mean that your total bets are twice what they actually are.
You've used this to argue a higher cashback from the casino.
You've realized you can cash in on this and so made some big deposits.
It's not working anymore so you're frantically trying to argue that your figures somehow make sense.

Again, simply answer this:
You said:
"deposit=16k
$641,961-$290,712.7"

How would your balance not be -$335,248.30 after losing that much?

 

[Deleted member 57619]

dude I can forward the emails to you from the support department, literally

 

[Deleted member 57619]

lol, I don't need to lie about this. lol. not stressing about it either, trust me!! I have all the evidence in the gaming logs who do I forward the emails that were sent to me by the support dept. what's your email, bruh?? pm me!

 

[neon claws]

dude I can forward the emails to you from the support department, literally

Just post the part where you're getting those figures, because they do not add up, and if they do please explain to me how- without putting you in debt $335,000.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

I rather forward the email to you because then you can't say I did this or did that, if not maybe there can be another way, I will try and figure that out for full transparency

 

[sandman748]

His numbers are off because he is using net winnings in his calculation which I think most people understand is not how cashback is expected to work. The deposit may or may not be irrelevant as the bonus calculation is based on weekly revenue by the casino, and not necessarily on how much he deposited (he may have had a balance to begin the week)

If you take a simple coin flip wager and bet $1000 each time and you won 4 times the calculation used by the casino is as follows.

Wager - 10x $1000 = $10000
4 wins x $2000 = $8000
6 losses x $0 = $0

(Total Wagers - Return to Player) x .1 = $Cashback
(10000 - 8000) x .1 = $Cashback
2000 x .1 = $200

OP is arguing that each time he wins, he didnt actually win $2000 because $1000 of that was his own wager and therefore his winnings on that bet are $1000. Its certainly an understandable view on it, as we generally dont think of the $2000 given back to us by the casino as having won $2000. We think of it as having won $1000. Whereas the casino sees it as $1000 in, $2000 out.

His take on it changes the calculation to

(10000 - 4000) x .1
6000 x .1 = $600 cashback

So in his calculation the number for his "total wagers" is likely accurate but the "total winnings" is at less than half that of what was actually returned to him on his bets. This is further complicated by break even bets where his total wager amount is increasing, but his "total wins" is not because he does not see this as a net win.

Seems to me that in a way both sides are incorrect. Most people would understand the intent of the promotion, especially someone betting at this level. At the same time, the wording of the promotion could be interpreted as he did and this whole thing could have been avoided with some legalese that defines "total winnings" . I can see how an inexperienced player could interpret total winning as OP has done.

I do have a hard time believing that there is any reputable source on the internet that claims net winnings rather than gross winnings should be used in the calculation

 

[Deleted member 57619]

I totally agree with what sandman has said in his post and thats how I've been trying to explain it, but came across with less informative facts as he presented!

I would like to apologize to all the forum members that I have disrespected and apologize formally if I was being a little to aggressive and emo about this whole situation! I'm not looking to make enemies here and found this forum very helpful and actually it has helped me out In numerous ways!

but I would like to post this chat transcript I had with one of the support members at King Billy casino that should shed more light on what is calculated in the formula! I asked the support agent how the cashback formula was calculated and gave her an ex. of black jack. if I bet 300 and won 300 what would you put into the formula for the cashback. She replied total bet 300 - total winning bet amount 300 = 0. I also have another chat transcript of another employee telling me that the winning amount is net!

 

[ESCJAMIE]

Im just still trying to work out if that is you in your profile pic or if its a stock photo, cause that is one cute guy

"If this offends you are anyone then sorry "

 

[irish-ranger]

What came first the chicken? or the egg???

 

[ESCJAMIE]

What came first the chicken? or the egg???

The Egg. chicken was made from another species of animal

 

[mina1929]

Im just still trying to work out if that is you in your profile pic or if its a stock photo, cause that is one cute guy

"If this offends you are anyone then sorry "

Yes he does look cute but you know what they say about cute guys

 

[ESCJAMIE]

Yes he does look cute but you know what they say about cute guys

Oh I sure do

 

[mina1929]

Oh I sure do

I don't really know, I just said that

 

[ESCJAMIE]

I don't really know, I just said that

They have big socks silly

 

[Deleted member 57619]

you guys are hiiii lariiiousssssss!!!!!

 

[ESCJAMIE]

you guys are hiiii lariiiousssssss!!!!!

Ive always wanted to move to canada

 

[mina1929]

Sorry @nirankali as you were

 

[Deleted member 57619]

your always welcome to visit!!

 

[mina1929]

Ive always wanted to move to canada

This is not a dating site Mr or is it

 

[ESCJAMIE]

your always welcome to visit!!

Oh is that a personal invitation, Im interested slip in my dms

 

[Deleted member 57619]

lol, I don't swing that way, but hey I can't stop a guy from trying can I!!

 

[ESCJAMIE]

This is not a dating site Mr or is it

Ive tried everything else Mina, this is how desperate im getting

 

[ESCJAMIE]

lol, I don't swing that way, but hey I can't stop a guy from trying can I!!

@mina1929 never mind the whole thing is over, Ill leave this thread now good luck to you @nirankali

 

[Deleted member 57619]

@ESCJAMIE thank you!! means a lot!!!

 

[ESCJAMIE]

@mina1929 I feel stupid now ive been fooled it was just an google image
Ive been flirting with a catfish

 

[Deleted member 57619]

there now here is the real me!!!

 

[ESCJAMIE]

there now here is the real me!!!

You've improved Niran

 

[Deleted member 57619]

@ESCJAMIE you know why I can't blame you for trying, because If I was to hit on a female and she told me that she's gay, I'm not taking it as, she's not interested I'm taking it as, "hey maybe she'll have a threesome!". lol.

so what I'm saying is that men never stop chasing, I guess thats just how we are!!

 

[ESCJAMIE]

@ESCJAMIE you know why I can't blame you for trying, because If I was to hit on a female and she told me that she's gay, I'm not taking it as, she's not interested I'm taking it as, "hey maybe she'll have a threesome!". lol.

so what I'm saying is that men never stop chasing, I guess thats just how we are!!

When your gay its normal to hit on a guy and for them to be straight, so Im use to it, Its blooming hard work flirting when your gay cause you never know by looking if someone is your way or not so you just got to hope that this time its 5% time they are interested

 

[The Dude]

GrindrMeister?

Sorry guys - lets not get derailed here. It's about this King Billy thing.

 

[ESCJAMIE]

GrindrMeister?

Sorry guys - lets not get derailed here. It's about this King Billy thing.

My bad

 

[Deleted member 57619]

sorry the discussion got off topic and wanted the last two relevant posts to be added here so there is no misunderstanding of what this thread is about!

His numbers are off because he is using net winnings in his calculation which I think most people understand is not how cashback is expected to work. The deposit may or may not be irrelevant as the bonus calculation is based on weekly revenue by the casino, and not necessarily on how much he deposited (he may have had a balance to begin the week)

If you take a simple coin flip wager and bet $1000 each time and you won 4 times the calculation used by the casino is as follows.

Wager - 10x $1000 = $10000
4 wins x $2000 = $8000
6 losses x $0 = $0

(Total Wagers - Return to Player) x .1 = $Cashback
(10000 - 8000) x .1 = $Cashback
2000 x .1 = $200

OP is arguing that each time he wins, he didnt actually win $2000 because $1000 of that was his own wager and therefore his winnings on that bet are $1000. Its certainly an understandable view on it, as we generally dont think of the $2000 given back to us by the casino as having won $2000. We think of it as having won $1000. Whereas the casino sees it as $1000 in, $2000 out.

His take on it changes the calculation to

(10000 - 4000) x .1
6000 x .1 = $600 cashback

So in his calculation the number for his "total wagers" is likely accurate but the "total winnings" is at less than half that of what was actually returned to him on his bets. This is further complicated by break even bets where his total wager amount is increasing, but his "total wins" is not because he does not see this as a net win.

Seems to me that in a way both sides are incorrect. Most people would understand the intent of the promotion, especially someone betting at this level. At the same time, the wording of the promotion could be interpreted as he did and this whole thing could have been avoided with some legalese that defines "total winnings" . I can see how an inexperienced player could interpret total winning as OP has done.

I do have a hard time believing that there is any reputable source on the internet that claims net winnings rather than gross winnings should be used in the calculation

I totally agree with what sandman has said in his post and thats how I've been trying to explain it, but came across with less informative facts as he presented!

I would like to apologize to all the forum members that I have disrespected and apologize formally if I was being a little to aggressive and emo about this whole situation! I'm not looking to make enemies here and found this forum very helpful and actually it has helped me out In numerous ways!

but I would like to post this chat transcript I had with one of the support members at King Billy casino that should shed more light on what is calculated in the formula! I asked the support agent how the cashback formula was calculated and gave her an ex. of black jack. if I bet 300 and won 300 what would you put into the formula for the cashback. She replied total bet 300 - total winning bet amount 300 = 0. I also have another chat transcript of another employee telling me that the winning amount is net!

 

[neon claws]

Well that was an interesting derail.

You can never ever, ever take what live chat says as gospel. I've been given wrong info by them almost more often than not.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

I have looked up cases on The Pogg and anything a casino claims through email, or chat is deemed accurate, full stop. they have the tools and information infront of them to inform me of anything that's not true, or anything that they don't know they then would have to speak to the managers about. All support staff is trained in the knowledge of the terms and conditions, and they must be bc, if a prospective client asked them a question they would have to give the answer about the terms or relay a email to a senior support staff so I can get the answer! so I would have to disagree!

I have spoken to numerous amounts of support chat staff from diff casino over the past month looking to sign up. They all tell me the same thing about the Cashback Bonus, that they first have to look up the terms and conditions, then if I ask a question they're not sure of they relay me a email to contact someone who will give me an answer.

Again, this is physical evidence not hearsay, and its binding bc she represents the casino, and again I have reviewed other Pogg investigations where anything said over a chat or email of a promo is binding. She's not allowed to just say anything she wants to say, and again thats not the only one I have I have another one from another support staff!

Like come on man, you asked for proof and I provided it to you, again my investigation is now at a higher level. And, that was emailed to me by my vip rep, from King Billy casino. The complaint is now at Soft Swiss, the parent company of the casino, and she explained that none of the mangers are involved in the investigation at this point!! I wonder why????

I think I'm done proving my point!

 

[TamingTheBeast]

This is thread is a goldmine. The derail is the cherry on top of ice cream.

 

[Gaz237]

I have looked up cases on The Pogg and anything a casino claims through email, or chat is deemed accurate, full stop. they have the tools and information infront of them to inform me of anything that's not true, or anything that they don't know they then would have to speak to the managers about. All support staff is trained in the knowledge of the terms and conditions, and they must be bc, if a prospective client asked them a question and would have to give the answer about the terms or relay a email to a senior support staff so I can get the answer! so I would have to disagree!

I have spoken to numerous amounts of support chat staff from diff casino over the past month looking to sign up. They all tell me the same thing about the Cashback Bonus, that they first have to look up the terms and conditions, then if I ask a question they're not sure of they relay me a email to contact someone who will give me an answer.

Again, this is physical evidence not hearsay, and its binding bc she represents the casino, and again I have reviewed other Pogg investigations where anything said over a chat or email of a promo is binding. She's not allowed to just say anything she wants to say, and again thats not the only one I have I have another one from another support staff!


like come on man, you ask for proof I give it to you, again my investigation is now at higher level and that was emailed to me by my vip rep, from King Billy casino, its now at Soft Swiss, and that none of the mangers are involved in the investigation at this point, and I wonder why????

I think I'm done here proving my point!

I'm still LOLOLOLOLOLing at the first part.

The 2nd. You have proved no point what so ever.

The only thing you achieved on this thread was to be chatted up.

I hope he wasn't just interested in you for your money.

Because you ain't getting any from this complaint.

I'm waiting for the fall out, when the result comes in.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

Well, I guess we're just going to have to wait on the results then!!

 

[Borgie]

No progress as yet?

 

[chuchu59]

Dear Niran,

You got way more Cashback that you deserved, we gave all details you already, if you insist I can repost our last reply here. Casback is calculated automatically and everyone is getting it in a proper way, and, you are the one, who wants on loss of $250 - around 7k Cashback. It doesn't make any sense.
We have already stated in our previous reply about calculation: Prince Cashback Formula: Total bet sum – Winning total Amount – Issued Bonuses *0,1. The "winning total amount" is way more than our Prince states.

Is cashback automatic? I do not recall getting any so maybe I need to register for the cashback.

 

[sandman748]

Is cashback automatic? I do not recall getting any so maybe I need to register for the cashback.

You have to lose a minimum of 500 USD equivalent within one week in order to meet the bare minimum requirements for their cash back.

 

[chuchu59]

You have to lose a minimum of 500 USD equivalent within one week in order to meet the bare minimum requirements for their cash back.

Thanks. I would have liked the casino rep to answer me in this manner.

 

[Deleted member 57619]

they say its automatic but remember if I never threatened them about posting there cashback policy on forums bc, I was a newbie and wanted no one to go through what I went through they would of never given me the cashback for the second week that I am claiming for!! which they gave me 667 based on ruslans 250 dollar loss, which no-one on the forum even understands when he says that, was way less than the 7500 that I am owed.

So the answer is if you don't ask them they won't pay you, and thats how they have been doing it!!!