Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[Kroffe]

What is the point you are trying to make?

I was just wondering where you had seen that a comorbidity had to be something you could die from, but i didnt find anything saying that on the link you posted.

But the point was that excluding people with comorbidities from the stats would produce a very misleading number.
And if inflating a number to make it look more scary is bad, surely doing the same thing but in the opposite direction is also bad.

Having a comorbidity of some sort is very common, so imo it makes no sense to just exclude all those people from the stats.

 

[geordiecolin]

I was just wondering where you had seen that a comorbidity had to be something you could die from, but i didnt find anything saying that on the link you posted.

But the point was that excluding people with comorbidities from the stats would produce a very misleading number.
And if inflating a number to make it look more scary is bad, surely doing the same thing but in the opposite direction is also bad.

Having a comorbidity of some sort is super common, so it makes no sense to just exclude all those people from the stats.

They could supply both as stating that 150,000 had died from covid is clearly deceptive reporting- fear porn.

 

[Kroffe]

They could supply both as stating that 150,000 had died from covid is clearly deceptive reporting- fear porn.

Media will always go with the biggest number they can find.
And with the way covid deaths have been recorded in the uk (same method in Sweden) that number is very inflated.

They use such a wide net that they catch alot of deaths that are not related to covid, but i think excluding everyone with a comorbidity have the opposite problem, that net is too small and would miss alot of deaths that were caused by covid.

To settle this i did some research and was able to find the true number, and it is: 40 487

The method i used to get that number was pretty advanced and highly scientific, so im afraid i cant explain how i found it.

 

[geordiecolin]

Media will always go with the biggest number they can find.
And with the way covid deaths have been recorded in the uk (same method in Sweden) that number is very inflated.

They use such a wide net that they catch alot of deaths that are not related to covid, but i think excluding everyone with a comorbidity have the opposite problem, that net is too small and would miss alot of deaths that were caused by covid.

To settle this i did some research and was able to find the true number, and it is: 40 487

The method i used to get that number was pretty advanced and highly scientific, so im afraid i cant explain how i found it.

View attachment 163623

Do the 140,000 get 10 free spins?

 

[Kroffe]

Do the 140,000 get 10 free spins?

I would need to do more calculations to figure that out.
But im guessing no. (Could be different for UK folks, but Swedes are not allowed bonuses)

 

[slotplayer]

They could supply both as stating that 150,000 had died from covid is clearly deceptive reporting- fear porn.

How do they count flu related deaths? Surely those people may have had comorbidities? We accept that figure at face value without question, don't we?

 

[TheAddict]

How do they count flu related deaths? Surely those people may have had comorbidities? We accept that figure at face value without question, don't we?

But nobody was ever told their lives will be restricted/destroyed, they'll lose their job, or perhaps be kicked out of uni/college and left in debt, or not be allowed to see their own family members.
Nobody was made to feel socially outcasted by friends or sometimes family members due to many of them buying into the 24/7 horseshit spewed from governments and media across the globe, which essentially turned such people into useful idiots/pawns, therefor literally doing the dirtiest part of the work for them; saying refusers are selfish or going so far as to directly blame/hate those who refused to take it because the fuming hater has now been told by his or her government they can no longer go sit on a beach in Spain and sip (real) Estrella Damm, while at the same time being pointed in the other direction as to who they should direct his or her anger towards. There wasn't 24/7 relentless media pressure/fear, or bribery. Neither was there any push to make it mandatory.

With that in mind, I think you'd have to be absolutely f***ing insane to accept (without question) anything presented to the masses regarding the corona situation.
But then, we do live in Clown World

 

[geordiecolin]

But nobody was ever told their lives will be restricted/destroyed, they'll lose their job, or perhaps be kicked out of uni/college and left in debt, or not be allowed to see their own family members.
Nobody was made to feel socially outcasted by friends or sometimes family members due to many of them buying into the 24/7 horseshit spewed from governments and media across the globe, which essentially turned such people into useful idiots/pawns, therefor literally doing the dirtiest part of the work for them; saying refusers are selfish or going so far as to directly blame/hate those who refused to take it because the fuming hater has now been told by his or her government they can no longer go sit on a beach in Spain and sip (real) Estrella Damm, while at the same time being pointed in the other direction as to who they should direct his or her anger towards. There wasn't 24/7 relentless media pressure/fear, or bribery. Neither was there any push to make it mandatory.

With that in mind, I think you'd have to be absolutely f***ing insane to accept (without question) anything presented to the masses regarding the corona situation.
But then, we do live in Clown World

 

[paul7388]

Had wondered where the 17,000 figure mentioned over last 2 days had been picked from.

Then noticed all this fact was from 1 old guy in a video. Must be true then.

I am first to say the figures in this country are well inflated.

Does not change the fact that the 17,000 figure is no proof of anything.

Simple fact that hard to just have covid on death certificate.
You are healthy catch covid end up in hospital. Covid leads to heart attack or severe pneumonia. Death certificate will mention both covid and heart attack or pneumonia. Any fool knows that.

 

[geordiecolin]

Had wondered where the 17,000 figure mentioned over last 2 days had been picked from.

Then noticed all this fact was from 1 old guy in a video. Must be true then.

I am first to say the figures in this country are well inflated.

Does not change the fact that the 17,000 figure is no proof of anything.

Simple fact that hard to just have covid on death certificate.
You are healthy catch covid end up in hospital. Covid leads to heart attack or severe pneumonia. Death certificate will mention both covid and heart attack or pneumonia. Any fool knows that.

The "old guy in a video" did not make it up and you do not have to believe him. Try struggle to get your head around the governments own statistics then you may want to reconsider the old man in a video.

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He will helpfully go through it again for you here

 

[paul7388]

The "old guy in a video" did not make it up and you do not have to believe him. Try struggle to get your head around the governments own statistics then you may want to reconsider the old man in a video.

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He will helpfully go through it again for you here

Do not need to get my head around the government's own statistics.

I know already they are vastly inflated and inaccurate.

Just the same as the figures in your video are inaccurate and used in a way to suit his agenda in same way as government is.

But waste of time as you have shown if someone says something that fits your narrative it must be true.

Thats the difference between me and you. I look at both sides and say really what a lot of crap. Government lies and inflates figures. Others do same to make everything look like lies. Whereas you post videos that are not accurate and go look the truth has finally been revealed lol.

 

[geordiecolin]

Do not need to get my head around the government's own statistics.

I know already they are vastly inflated and inaccurate.

Just the same as the figures in your video are inaccurate and used in a way to suit his agenda in same way as government is.

But waste of time as you have shown if someone says something that fits your narrative it must be true.

Thats the difference between me and you. I look at both sides and say really what a lot of crap. Government lies and inflates figures. Others do same to make everything look like lies. Whereas you post videos that are not accurate and go look the truth has finally been revealed lol.

Are you saying the government could have lied and the 17500 figure could be much lower?

 

[paul7388]

Are you saying the government could have lied and the 17500 figure could be much lower?

The government have lied. The figure will be much higher than 17,500 tho but if you want to believe that accurate thanks to 1 guy then so be it.

Reason it will be much higher as at beginning it was deadlier and really got into lungs and affected breathing.

Nowadays it is nothing more than a cold or flu and not a massive killer compared to early stages.

But you already know this. And you will already know that from previous posts I do not believe in lockdowns and damage done. I also stay in a country where every days daily figures are represented in way to scare people most.

Yes daily death lists are crap as no matter how mild the virus the more cases the more deaths as it 28 days from testing positive. You can now get 300 daily deaths listed where none are actually due to covid.

Does not change the fact on the first 6 months there were a lot of deaths from Covid.

But like I said if you can not believe that because of 1 old man entirely your choice to believe what u wish .

Same as the few around that believe aliens sent the virus and many others to earth to wipe out most of population for them to take over world are free to believe that.

 

[geordiecolin]

The government have lied. The figure will be much higher than 17,500 tho but if you want to believe that accurate thanks to 1 guy then so be it.

Reason it will be much higher as at beginning it was deadlier and really got into lungs and affected breathing.

Nowadays it is nothing more than a cold or flu and not a massive killer compared to early stages.

But you already know this. And you will already know that from previous posts I do not believe in lockdowns and damage done. I also stay in a country where every days daily figures are represented in way to scare people most.

Yes daily death lists are crap as no matter how mild the virus the more cases the more deaths as it 28 days from testing positive. You can now get 300 daily deaths listed where none are actually due to covid.

Does not change the fact on the first 6 months there were a lot of deaths from Covid.

But like I said if you can not believe that because of 1 old man entirely your choice to believe what u wish .

Same as the few around that believe aliens sent the virus and many others to earth to wipe out most of population for them to take over world are free to believe that.

Nothing to do with hospital protocols,the use of DNR orders and nil by mouth,the use of end of life sedatives and having their lungs invaded by a mechanical device? Or elderly being mixed with covid patients?
Would you agree then that open debate should be introduced where medical experts come together to discuss their findings?

 

[bamberfishcake]

For me, the issue is that flu kills the same amount as Covid each year.

But previously, when a new strain has emerged, killing comparable numbers as before, we have not been locked down, made to feel segregated from our friends and family by the media as pro or anti. Had the government waste billions of our money whilst fattening their own wallets, medical experts shut down and opinions quashed, freedom of speech stemmed and character assassinations of people trying to have an open convo, the prospect of being restricted in our movements and vaccine passports etc, etc, etc.

Not sure if anyone has bothered to watch the 'old guy in the video' - have to admit that made me chuckle

No need to be so divisive in all of this. Hopefully, the next strain of Sars, Covid, Rhinovirus etc, etc, won't come with the same fiasco, profiteering and restrictions.

p.s. not sure if the old guy in the video really has an agenda, he has been very objective and neutral in his approach.

p.p.s. when the government were manipulating the media with the narrative that Omicron from S.Africa was lethal, old guy presented facts not being reported from S.A. that said it was not as bad as portrayed and we were entering the endemic phase, which is what actually happened

 

[paul7388]

For me, the issue is that flu kills the same amount as Covid each year.

But previously, when a new strain has emerged, killing comparable numbers as before, we have not been locked down, made to feel segregated from our friends and family by the media as pro or anti. Had the government waste billions of our money whilst fattening their own wallets, medical experts shut down and opinions quashed, freedom of speech stemmed and character assassinations of people trying to have an open convo, the prospect of being restricted in our movements and vaccine passports etc, etc, etc.

Not sure if anyone has bothered to watch the 'old guy in the video' - have to admit that made me chuckle

No need to be so divisive in all of this. Hopefully, the next strain of Sars, Covid, Rhinovirus etc, etc, won't come with the same fiasco, profiteering and restrictions.

p.s. not sure if the old guy in the video really has an agenda, he has been very objective and neutral in his approach.

I watched the old guy in video.

As already stated all figures are there to be interpreted as those who use them see fit.

But to say because he says only 17,000 deaths say covid only does not mean covid only killed 17,000.

Even a healthy person going into hospital solely because of covid and then covid caused say a stroke that killed them would be a covid death I am sure you would agree as covid was responsible and could be proved responsible.

But they would not be a purely covid death on certificate as the stroke would also be listed. See using figures in a way to suit your reasoning.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I watched the old guy in video.

As already stated all figures are there to be interpreted as those who use them see fit.

But to say because he says only 17,000 deaths say covid only does not mean covid only killed 17,000.

Even a healthy person going into hospital solely because of covid and then covid caused say a stroke that killed them would be a covid death I am sure you would agree as covid was responsible and could be proved responsible.

But they would not be a purely covid death on certificate as the stroke would also be listed. See using figures in a way to suit your reasoning.

Completely agree, aside from the fact he used it for his reasoning, he just presented the facts in my opinion but we can agree to differ.

But where are all the deaths from flu and pneumonia over the last two years? It's not the figures so much that concerns me, It's the unprecedented approach that is out of context for a new cold/flu virus, to which covid-19 belongs as a strain. Not playing down how lethal it is, just not convinced the approach was the right one and all of the restrictions were necessary, nor the money-making that goes with it.

Until a few months ago, I was one of the first to state wearing masks and lockdowns worked and were essential. Now, I see nothing but an illusion created to scare us, divide us and get us all on jabs for the profit of a few. Thankfully, many around the world have now united against the mandates and boosters needed every few months. Also, vaccines have never been approved so quickly, all based on the illusion this is a pandemic as bad as the Spanish Flu.

I guess time will tell if they try and pull this on us again. maybe next time it will be something more deadly. Then I will really be up the creek without a paddle because I won't believe them.

 

[dionysus]

oh dear, another mob scene here in Canada protesting covid restrictions

Frigid weather didn’t deter a few dozen people from protesting in Bradford on Sunday.

More than 30 people waved signs and placards at the corner of West Park Avenue and Holland Street, yesterday afternoon.

 

[sufferinsilence]

 

[justdoit]

 

[electronictonic]

Sen Johnson roundtable part 2, a follow on from the first one which had parent's of the child victims of the death juice.
Starts at the 40 minute mark.

 

[geordiecolin]

The Truckers in Canada are mobilizing

 

[dionysus]

 

[geordiecolin]

The nasty bastards

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[dionysus]

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However, as of Tuesday afternoon, new donations continue to pour in, ranging from a few dollars to several hundred.

Not sure what's nasty about it

We require that fundraisers be transparent about the flow of funds and have a clear plan for how those funds will be spent. In this case, we are in touch with the organizer to verify that information,” Rachel Hollis, a spokeswoman for the crowdfunding platform, said in an email. “Funds will be safely held until the organizer is able to provide the documentation to our team about how funds will be properly distributed.”

​

 

[bamberfishcake]

I suppose it depends on how much they look into all of their fundraising projects.

If all projects going through the site are subject to the same critique then there is no nastiness. If it's being singled out because of the controversy around Covid, then it's just plain nasty.

 

[dionysus]

I imagine it's much the same as say, a casino - when millions of dollars (pushing 5) are flowing through their platform in a single endeavour, powers-that-be are going to sit up and notice and cross every T and dot every I

 

[bamberfishcake]

Imagine it's much the same as say, a casino - when millions of dollars (pushing 5) are flowing through in a single endeavour, powers-that-be are going to sit up and notice and cross every T and dot every I

Is that a fact, or are you just guessing

 

[dionysus]

Is that a fact, or are you just guessing

well, the whole freedom convoy here is on every news outlet nationwide (not much happens here so this is popular news) - I cant fault them for being ultra cautious with everyone looking in

 

[bamberfishcake]

It raises some questions though, if, other gofundme projects are not subject to the same scrutiny.

The site should remain neutral unless they have received pressure from elsewhere, the powers that be maybe, which raises even more questions.

With six million raised, it clearly has some support. And the whole point of gofundme is to give those that are less fortunate access to funds for getting projects off the ground.

Is it another example of people being told what to do with their money? If people want to fund it, why stop it, unless you have a political agenda.

I cant see how it could tarnish gofundme's reputation, to be honest. They are just a platform, a middle man if you like, to raise cash for causes that people advertise.

 

[sufferinsilence]

It raises some questions though, if, other gofundme projects are not subject to the same scrutiny.

The site should remain neutral unless they have received pressure from elsewhere, the powers that be maybe, which raises even more questions.

With six million raised, it clearly has some support. And the whole point of gofundme is to give those that are less fortunate access to funds for getting projects off the ground.

Is it another example of people being told what to do with their money? If people want to fund it, why stop it, unless you have a political agenda.

I cant see how it could tarnish gofundme's reputation, to be honest. They are just a platform, a middle man if you like, to raise cash for causes that people advertise.

Don't worry, GoFundMe has scrapped fundraisers to bail out anarchists from jail

 

[dionysus]

Well, when I say powers-that-be, I mean the upper heads at GoFundMe
Myabe there's some politicality to this, but again, it's a LOT of money they are mediating.
You could say they are just middlemen - but it's their platform and this has garnered much attention

From what I see there's other factors >

“We require that fundraisers be transparent about the flow of funds and have a clear plan for how those funds will be spent. In this case, we are in touch with the organizer to verify that information,” Rachel Hollis, a spokeswoman for the crowdfunding platform, said in an email.

“Once a withdrawal plan is provided by the organizer, our team is on standby to safely and quickly deliver the funds,” the company said.


The campaign’s description originally claimed the funds would be disbursed to truckers to cover the cost of fuel for truck drivers taking part in the convoy, but on Sunday that was changed to state an arrangement was made with GoFundMe to send the money directly to a bulk fuel supplier and not the organizers, and that excess funds would be donated to a veteran’s organization.

Makes sense they are being cautious and diligent

 

[goatwack]

Much the same as Paypal blocking Vax Control Group and its ilk on the premise of being ethical custodians of donors' monies.

Short of actual criminal activities and the likes of suspected terrorist funding, money laundering and all the other fun things, it becomes a problem when 'money middlemen' and financial institutions act as moral crusaders by interjecting with their censuring bollocks

 

[bamberfishcake]

Oh, so they are anarchists now, not conspiracy theorists anymore.

Not sure if it was a post on here or not, something I saw said conspiracy theories are now also known as spoiler alerts

It's a fair point though, bailing anarchists out of jail would tarnish the reputation of such a site, would anarchists raise as much money though without the support from many? I doubt the funds would come from one or two rich supporters, they would just provide the bail money directly.

I guess six million raised in this case demonstrates some serious support.

@dionysus yes, I can see how they would be cautious with the funds going to a single fuel supplier and the rest to a veterans funds. Those veterans get too much help

 

[sufferinsilence]

Stumbled upon this, how come I haven't read about it yet from the open minds that wander around here? ?

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[bamberfishcake]

Stumbled upon this, how come I haven't read about it yet from the open minds that wander around here? ?

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Wow, only scanned it but lots of potential issues with that one. Caused lung problems in the mice it was tested on, no cause for concern there.

It's a good job the vaccines are scrutinised and trialled over long periods of time before being approved by impartial and unbiased people in the pharmaceutical industry with no monetary ties or stocks in the companies they deal with.

 

[dionysus]

The convoy is still a few days yet from Ottawa so I imagine more news to follow in coming days

 

[dionysus]

We're about as divisive as the US' politics - polls show roughly a 50/50 split regarding vaccines and mandates (slight edge in favour of) though, we might get a bit up in arms, more peaceful protesting than, say, setting buildings on fire

 

[sufferinsilence]

Wow, only scanned it but lots of potential issues with that one. Caused lung problems in the mice it was tested on, no cause for concern there.

It's a good job the vaccines are scrutinised and trialled over long periods of time before being approved by impartial and unbiased people in the pharmaceutical industry with no monetary ties or stocks in the companies they deal with.

Dr. Malone scrutinised other vaccines just like Dr. Vanden Bossche is, or was, working on his own vaccine whilst heavily criticising other vaccines.

Basically can't take much of what they said serious because of conflict of interest. Yet both are, or were, seen as heroes by anti-vaxxers and the like. Why?

 

[bamberfishcake]

Dr. Malone scrutinised other vaccines just like Dr. Vanden Bossche is, or was, working on his own vaccine whilst heavily criticising other vaccines.

Basically can't take much of what they said serious because of conflict of interest. Yet both are, or were, seen as heroes by anti-vaxxers and the like. Why?

Have to admit I don't know enough about either of those doctors nor the vaccines they push. For the record, I'm not an anti-vaxxer as such, I'm definitely an anti-covid-19 vaxxer though. Not from the start, I sat on the fence somewhere through most of it.

I think the system is so badly tainted with conflicts of interest left right and centre, I'm not sure I trust any of them at the minute.

I wish I could, living through the fear of a pandemic would be so much simpler and so would my decision to get jabbed up.

p.s. I think part of the problem is that the media try and push us into groups and often when you're aligned with a particular group or way of thinking, you look for evidence or stories to validate your belonging and reasoning. Not much from what I have seen to support any side. I sit in the 'wtf is going on group'

 

[geordiecolin]

It raises some questions though, if, other gofundme projects are not subject to the same scrutiny.

The site should remain neutral unless they have received pressure from elsewhere, the powers that be maybe, which raises even more questions.

With six million raised, it clearly has some support. And the whole point of gofundme is to give those that are less fortunate access to funds for getting projects off the ground.

Is it another example of people being told what to do with their money? If people want to fund it, why stop it, unless you have a political agenda.

I cant see how it could tarnish gofundme's reputation, to be honest. They are just a platform, a middle man if you like, to raise cash for causes that people advertise.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Have to admit I don't know enough about either of those doctors nor the vaccines they push. For the record, I'm not an anti-vaxxer as such, I'm definitely an anti-covid-19 vaxxer though. Not from the start, I sat on the fence somewhere through most of it.

I think the system is so badly tainted with conflicts of interest left right and centre, I'm not sure I trust any of them at the minute.

I wish I could, living through the fear of a pandemic would be so much simpler and so would my decision to get jabbed up.

p.s. I think part of the problem is that the media try and push us into groups and often when you're aligned with a particular group or way of thinking, you look for evidence or stories to validate your belonging and reasoning. Not much from what I have seen to support any side. I sit in the 'wtf is going on group'

I try to look at it from both sides sometimes but then I see one of the heroes of the sceptical side comparing a pandemic to the Holocaust and I just can't...

 

[mack341]

Dr. Malone scrutinised other vaccines just like Dr. Vanden Bossche is, or was, working on his own vaccine whilst heavily criticising other vaccines.

Basically can't take much of what they said serious because of conflict of interest. Yet both are, or were, seen as heroes by anti-vaxxers and the like. Why?

Doesn't bother me at all if Malone is lending his expertise to make a new vaccine, it'll face the same scrutiny from sceptics/natural immunity advocates like myself, but it might be safer and provide better protection than the current ones available, the proof will be in the pudding. What I would be disappointed is if he wouldn't answer or reply to questions about the ingredients or other concerns.

That's been part of the problem with the existing ones, hiding the data, and just repeating that they are safe and effective while censoring anyone who tries to question or disagree - including scientists e.g. Peter Mccullough.

Geert afaik would like to create vaccines based on boosting innate immunity, something like that, a totally different approach rather than creating specific antibodies, which has always been the focus. Don't know if it would work but science develops with changes of direction and new ways of attempting things. His criticisms of the vaccinating program won't make him a millionaire and will probably cost him career opportunities and reputational damage in the mainstream big pharma world etc..

 

[sufferinsilence]

Doesn't bother me at all if Malone is lending his expertise to make a new vaccine, it'll face the same scrutiny from sceptics/natural immunity advocates like myself, but it might be safer and provide better protection than the current ones available, the proof will be in the pudding. What I would be disappointed is if he wouldn't answer or reply to questions about the ingredients or other concerns.

That's been part of the problem with the existing ones, hiding the data, and just repeating that they are safe and effective while censoring anyone who tries to question or disagree - including scientists e.g. Peter Mccullough.

Geert afaik would like to create vaccines based on boosting innate immunity, something like that, a totally different approach rather than creating specific antibodies, which has always been the focus. Don't know if it would work but science develops with changes of direction and new ways of attempting things. His criticisms of the vaccinating program won't make him a millionaire and will probably cost him career opportunities and reputational damage in the mainstream big pharma world etc..

From what I gathered Dr. Vanden Bossche got angry when his idea was shot down by "big pharma" and then started criticising others.

 

[geordiecolin]

Triple jabbed just in case his site caught the virus

 

[interlog]

Triple jabbed just in case his site caught the virus

View attachment 163763

Well he had heart problems before Covid even existed.

My Doctors surgery is useless too, even before the pandamic.

I really don't see the relevance of this in this topic.

 

[geordiecolin]

Well he had heart problems before Covid even existed.

My Doctors surgery is useless too, even before the pandamic.

I really don't see the relevance of this in this topic.

I wish him well.
Australians are mobilizing

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[mack341]

From what I gathered Dr. Vanden Bossche got angry when his idea was shot down by "big pharma" and then started criticising others.

yeah I had a brief thought while typing that, a vaccine that boosted innate immunity would possibly be a kind of be a universal one, which would then cut their money stream. I'm convinced they would put that in front of 'science', I think we will have to rely on university research etc to make breakthroughs, not researchers only considering maximising profit.

 

[pinnit2014]

Gp's were shite before CV-19, they are shite during, and after, CV-19

Lesson?

Get private healthcare and stop crying.

 

[geordiecolin]

yeah I had a brief thought while typing that, a vaccine that boosted innate immunity would possibly be a kind of be a universal one, which would then cut their money stream. I'm convinced they would put that in front of 'science', I think we will have to rely on university research etc to make breakthroughs, not researchers only considering maximising profit.

Although a lot of uni labs are reliant on funding by pharma and Gates

It seems that the Canadian leader will be unavailable to engage with the truckers until it is all over because he has to stay in his bunker because he and much of his ministers have been exposed to coof

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