Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[pinnit2014]

Pretty pitiful conference from Johnson; who will probably come under more pressure once the dissection of the governments response to this takes place.

No doubt the snake Hancock will be sharpening his kitchen utensils in the background.

Saw a few articles about a leadership challenge around Xmas time but didn’t take much heed of it but this, coupled with a lot of ineptitude on the governments part during this whole thing, might make that a bit more realistic.

 

[mack341]

I told you already weeks or months ago. The WHO has no legal mandate the enter any country or send people from their regional offices to a location within a country. That is how it was set-up decades ago.

I don't remember that, my recall power is about 24hrs atm

I know they are waiting for China's communist govt to give them permission, most countries would probably have given it as early as possible, to enable the scientists to research the origin, having more scientists from around the world study things on the ground. Any traces will be harder to detect now to make sure they have found the correct patient zero/ site of outbreak.

[I mention communist as they may not be the govt of choice for the chinese people if they had a vote]

 

[sufferinsilence]

Coronavirus is 'uniquely adapted to infect humans': Top vaccine scientist says it could only have come from an animal through a 'freak of nature' - and the possibility it leaked from Wuhan lab MUST be investigated

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A team of scientists has produced evidence that the pandemic virus is ‘uniquely adapted to infect humans’, raising fresh questions over whether its origins were natural or could have occurred in a laboratory.

Professor Nikolai Petrovsky, a top vaccine researcher who headed the Australian team, said the virus was ‘not typical of a normal zoonotic [animal to human] infection’ since it appeared with the ‘exceptional’ ability to enter human bodies from day one.

He said the virus should have emerged from an animal through ‘a freak event of nature’ but the possibility that it had leaked from a laboratory could not be ruled out.

"I haven’t seen a zoonotic virus that has behaved in this way before,’ he said

He told The Mail on Sunday that new viruses crossing over from animals normally strengthen as they adapt to human hosts, but for unexplained reasons, this new coronavirus seems perfectly adapted to infect humans without the need to evolve.

He pointed to the ‘coincidence’ that the most closely related known viruses were being studied in a laboratory in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the pandemic erupted, and insisted that the possibility of a leak, however remote, should not be ignored in the search for its origin.

‘The implications may not be good for scientists or global politics, but just because the answers might cause problems, we can’t run away from them,’ he added. ‘There is currently no evidence of a leak but enough circumstantial data to concern us. It remains a possibility until it is ruled out.’

Richard Ebright, one of the world’s top biosecurity experts, also told this newspaper that the odds of this new virus containing such unusual features and occurring naturally were ‘possible – but improbable’.

Ebright, professor of chemical biology at Rutgers University, in New Jersey, said scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology were creating chimeric coronaviruses (new hybrid micro-organisms) and seeking funding to test their ability to infect human cells while using procedures that leave no sign of human manipulation.

He also highlighted the ‘furin cleavage site’, which allows the spike protein to bind to cells in human tissues including the lungs, liver and small intestines.

Previous studies have noted the efficiency of this cleavage method, which does not exist in the most similar coronaviruses – although researchers in 2009 modified the SARS virus to introduce a furin cleavage site in a similar position to Sars-CoV-2 and found this increased the infectivity of the virus.

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^ food for thought ... I have added a few members to my ignore list so I will not see any of their replies, a shame in a forum but will be a better way of avoiding unpleasant rows. I don't mind serious debate, or leg pulling and banter but posts with the sole intention to demean and deride go too far, engaging in character assassination and gaslighting etc...

Welcome back, hope I didn't make the list. We might disagree but I try to point that out in the politest way possible

On topic of the article, it wouldn't be the first time a virus "escapes" from a lab. Usually they're quick on the ball to stop an outbreak but if this one is a lab escape they royally fucked up.

 

[colinsunderland]

Regardless of what happens from now on ( but I truly hope there's more to come on Cummings and Boris is forced to sack him) due to the sheer hypocrisy of Boris and Cummings along with the arrogance and utter contempt from them both, in regards towards Cummings actions. I think the Tory party and especially Boris have done irreparable damage long term.

I actually feel personally angry at Boris as it feels like he is genuinely taking the piss out of us.

Its rumoured Sky News have confirmed the car that was seen in Barnard Castle was Cumming's.
There are also numerous tweets by people from around the 10th May asking why Cummings was in Durham, not reporters or anything, just normal people's accounts asking.

I think that was the start of the end for Bojo, and most likely this government. Labour must be loving this.

 

[colinsunderland]

 

[mack341]

Welcome back, hope I didn't make the list. We might disagree but I try to point that out in the politest way possible

On topic of the article, it wouldn't be the first time a virus "escapes" from a lab. Usually they're quick on the ball to stop an outbreak but if this one is a lab escape they royally fucked up.

No I'm afraid you haven't made the cut and the list is top secret I'm sure I piss people off from time to time, and I do generally have a high tolerance to a bit of tough debating, strong difference of opinion. But in truth it was the only way to stop more rows. It's working quite well actually, I'm enjoying myself a bit more today.

I was intending to take a 7 day break but wanted to reply to a PM, and then I saw that mail article and thought it's worth posting, I don't mind if some people truly think it's crap or not credible. They may believe it or not, but I am helped if they find a flaw or some other issue with it, but in a constructive way. I have little scientific knowledge, so If I can get a shortcut to understanding something of that nature I'm all for it.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I don't remember that, my recall power is about 24hrs atm

I know they are waiting for China's communist govt to give them permission, most countries would probably have given it as early as possible, to enable the scientists to research the origin, having more scientists from around the world study things on the ground. Any traces will be harder to detect now to make sure they have found the correct patient zero/ site of outbreak.

[I mention communist as they may not be the govt of choice for the chinese people if they had a vote]

How do you know that most countries would have given permission? There is no proof of that.

And if they needed to clean up something, they would have done it in the first week of January or maybe already in December 2019. Geez mack.

Ask the US to let somebody into their country to check or investigate maybe some war crimes. They don't even recognize The Hague as an international tribunal.

Fact is, EVERYONE knew on 22nd Jan that human-to-human transmission is happening, by 20th Feb or thereabouts EVERYONE knew that asymptomatic transmission is happening.

Now go back and look at what the countries did to prepare once that was known? I would venture to say that most did NADA, ZILCH, ZIP until mid to end-March.

In essence, it doesn't matter a single damn' from where it came from. What matters is the piss-poor response of most countries in the first weeks after the two main facts were clear to EVERYONE!!!!

With an R0 value of 1.5 - 3.5 which is the range that has been calculated for COVID-19, one or two weeks would have made all the difference. But e.g. in Germany, they foolishly held their mass carnival parties without a bother. Tens of millions crisscrossed the planet on planes from Europe to the US, from the US to Asia, from Asia to Africa etc etc. Billions travelled on metros, buses etc.

 

[mack341]

How do you know that most countries would have given permission? There is no proof of that.

And if they needed to clean up something, they would have done it in the first week of January or maybe already in December 2019. Geez mack.

Ask the US to let somebody into their country to check or investigate maybe some war crimes. They don't even recognize The Hague as an international tribunal.

Fact is, EVERYONE knew on 22nd Jan that human-to-human transmission is happening, by 20th Feb or thereabouts EVERYONE knew that asymptomatic transmission is happening.

Now go back and look at what the countries did to prepare once that was known? I would venture to say that most did NADA, ZILCH, ZIP until mid to end-March.

In essence, it doesn't matter a single damn' from where it came from. What matters is the piss-poor response of most countries in the first weeks after the two main facts were clear to EVERYONE!!!!

With an R0 value of 1.5 - 3.5 which is the range that has been calculated for COVID-19, one or two weeks would have made all the difference. But e.g. in Germany, they foolishly held their mass carnival parties without a bother. Tens of millions crisscrossed the planet on planes from Europe to the US, from the US to Asia, from Asia to Africa etc etc. Billions travelled on metros, buses etc.

I agree the response of countries was piss poor, which is probably why I never got worked up about the 5 delay or whatever it was, we sat here in the uk watching the outbreak and shutdown in wuhan, at which point we had no cases and did fuck all for weeks until it was too late.

air passengers should have been blood tested and quarantined, yes it would have taken a bit of effort and disruption, but they are talking about doing it now after the horse has bolted. only returning citizens too not tourists. That would have made a difference I'm sure to the uk, an island, bought us some time to prepare [care home residents, ppe etc..]

 

[sufferinsilence]

No I'm afraid you haven't made the cut and the list is top secret I'm sure I piss people off from time to time, and I do generally have a high tolerance to a bit of tough debating, strong difference of opinion. But in truth it was the only way to stop more rows. It's working quite well actually, I'm enjoying myself a bit more today.

I was intending to take a 7 day break but wanted to reply to a PM, and then I saw that mail article and thought it's worth posting, I don't mind if some people truly think it's crap or not credible. They may believe it or not, but I am helped if they find a flaw or some other issue with it, but in a constructive way. I have little scientific knowledge, so If I can get a shortcut to understanding something of that nature I'm all for it.

You might like this interview, I haven't posted it yet because it's a different view but I found it very interesting even tho it's tough to get through. If you don't have 30 minutes of spare time or a short attention span the bullet points of the interview are in the video description. I quite like this interviewer and he gives a voice to different opinions without going too deep into the rabbit hole so to speak.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I agree the response of countries was piss poor, which is probably why I never got worked up about the 5 delay or whatever it was, we sat here in the uk watching the outbreak and shutdown in wuhan, at which point we had no cases and did fuck all for weeks until it was too late.

air passengers should have been blood tested and quarantined, yes it would have taken a bit of effort and disruption, but they are talking about doing it now after the horse has bolted. only returning citizens too not tourists. That would have made a difference I'm sure to the uk, an island, bought us some time to prepare [care home residents, ppe etc..]

My opinion is that we were lucky with SARS and MERS, even Ebola. People were only infectious when they were showing symptoms, so with SARS measuring temperature was an easy way to keep control. Less than 10K were infected, although China held information back for 2-3 months. Has anyone done something to increase preparedness? NOPE except a few countries like Taiwan or Singapore.

This time we were not so lucky and the virus has mutated in a way that first it has asymptomatic people being infectious and second it attacks the body in a way that from the thousands of drugs that exist none is really helping, let alone curing it.

Singapore did a stellar job but made a single small but grave mistake. They didn't think of the worker dormitories and the cases jumped within a couple of weeks from less than 1,000 to over 30,000. And this is a small city-state, plus they have not tested all 200K workers yet. Now amplify that to the world population.

It should be clear to everyone that one day humanity might hit its limits, we do not have a natural right to dominate this planet. And nature will not bother about that one single iota.

 

[mack341]

You might like this interview, I haven't posted it yet because it's a different view but I found it very interesting even tho it's tough to get through. If you don't have 30 minutes of spare time or a short attention span the bullet points of the interview are in the video description. I quite like this interviewer and he gives a voice to different opinions without going too deep into the rabbit hole so to speak.

yes I've watched one of his vids before, he allows the subjects to talk freely on the topic, it would be much better if tv was more like this. let the audience decide rather than having an aggressive interviewer trying to hijack them and score points.

I don't always want to go down the rabbit hole, as it would just become too much supposition; I would love to go back to having a media I could trust more, it was never perfect but it was better and treated people as adults. maybe it's the internet that has caused the media to change and be more opinionated on issues, almost as if they are trying too hard to drown out any possible alternative viewpoints.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Its rumoured Sky News have confirmed the car that was seen in Barnard Castle was Cumming's.
There are also numerous tweets by people from around the 10th May asking why Cummings was in Durham, not reporters or anything, just normal people's accounts asking.

I think that was the start of the end for Bojo, and most likely this government. Labour must be loving this.

This government has 4 years left to run. His own party will not turn on him in sufficient numbers to force him out.

A week is a long time in politics, let alone 4 years...Boris is going nowhere.

 

[colinsunderland]

This government has 4 years left to run. His own party will not turn on him in sufficient numbers to force him out.

A week is a long time in politics, let alone 4 years...Boris is going nowhere.

We'll see.
Even Daily Mail readers have turned on him, ffs, you must be bad to have them against you if you are a Tory!
The minute the evidence is produced showing he made more than one trip up, see how quickly various MP's turn on him.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Rumours coming out tonight that Cumming's son has learning disabilities and that is why Boris has backed him.
If this is true, he was within the law to do what he did. Rules were relaxed for people with autism and learning disabilities.

Could be some serious egg on faces.

 

[colinsunderland]

Rumours coming out tonight that Cumming's son has learning disabilities and that is why Boris has backed him.
If this is true, he was within the law to do what he did. Rules were relaxed for people with autism and learning disabilities.

Could be some serious egg on faces.

I thought that was well known?
So, despite his wifes brother and sister living locally, he had to travel 250 miles for childcare? Which he then didn't use. While his wife was showing symptoms of the virus. The rules, he helped create, were, if you are showing any symptoms, you must not go out.
Had a day out 30 miles away from where he was staying, despite the rest of the country being told to stay at home. Do not drive to take exercise.
Numerous reports of him travelling back up mid April.
Numerous reports (that don't seem to have been picked up by the media yet) that he was in Durham around the 10th May.

Which rules were relaxed to allow him to do all that?

Also
The day he was (apparently) in Barnard Castle with his wife was his wife's birthday
The time he traveled up to 'self isolate' was the exact time his uncle was in hospital and subsequently died of Covid-19
His Mam's birthday was also at the time he was there

The Daily Mail turning on them is massive. Tomorrow's headline is completely unprecedented.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I thought that was well known?
So, despite his wifes brother and sister living locally, he had to travel 250 miles for childcare? Which he then didn't use. While his wife was showing symptoms of the virus. The rules, he helped create, were, if you are showing any symptoms, you must not go out.
Had a day out 30 miles away from where he was staying, despite the rest of the country being told to stay at home. Do not drive to take exercise.
Numerous reports of him travelling back up mid April.
Numerous reports (that don't seem to have been picked up by the media yet) that he was in Durham around the 10th May.

Which rules were relaxed to allow him to do all that?

Also
The day he was (apparently) in Barnard Castle with his wife was his wife's birthday
The time he traveled up to 'self isolate' was the exact time his uncle was in hospital and subsequently died of Covid-19
His Mam's birthday was also at the time he was there

The Daily Mail turning on them is massive. Tomorrow's headline is completely unprecedented.

Its bank holiday so that headline will most likely be written by the weekend team who are left leaning I believe.

So not really that unprecedented.

 

[colinsunderland]

Its bank holiday so that headline will most likely be written by the weekend team who are left leaning I believe.

So not really that unprecedented.

Well its credited to Jason Groves, who is the head political writer for the mail, so unless he only works weekends, I think you are wrong.

Can you link to the guidance you mentioned above, whereby if you have an autistic child you can run up and down the country at your pleasure, and have days out with your wife?

 

[Gaz237]

Its bank holiday so that headline will most likely be written by the weekend team who are left leaning I believe.

So not really that unprecedented.

That seriously has to be utter bullshite.

How the feck can a national newspaper change its political bias at weekends.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

That seriously has to be utter bullshite.

How the feck can a national newspaper change its political bias at weekends.

It's true apparently. I thought the same.

Also the current editor is staunchly pro-remain.

 

[Borgie]

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Assume this is what is being referred to. Surely this is not applicable though as he is a 5 year old whose parents do not have learning disabilities.

 

[colinsunderland]

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Assume this is what is being referred to. Surely this is not applicable though as he is a 5 year old whose parents do not have learning disabilities.

That can't be what @Mr_Slot5 is meaning as it only came in on the 8th April I believe, relates to exercise, not childcare and the admitted travel was before that date. Doesn't mention anyone being able to travel with symptoms either.

 

[Kroffe]

While cleaning out the fridge earlier i found really old stuff at the back.
Most seem to agree that the virus probably originated in China.
Nothing has been confirmed yet, but dont be suprised if the papers start calling it Kroffes fridge virus in the coming days.

 

[dionysus]

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[dionysus]

(any other time, we still call them citiots/cidiots )

 

[dionysus]

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[Harry_BKK]

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View attachment 132438

Compare that to how the lockdown rules are enforced here in SG.

If I get caught anywhere outside without a mask, I will lose my Long-Stay Visa, have to instantly leave SG (they give you 24hrs) and will never be allowed back into the country. Never mind the SGD10,000 fine I would have to pay.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Compare that to how the lockdown rules are enforced here in SG.

If I get caught anywhere outside without a mask, I will lose my Long-Stay Visa, have to instantly leave SG (they give you 24hrs) and will never be allowed back into the country. Never mind the SGD10,000 fine I would have to pay.

That's how Countries like Singapore can keep the virus under control.

You'd have liberals moaning it was an infringement of their human rights over here

I'd much rather put my faith in places like that who have experience and have dealt with SARS before over somewhere that has to pander to the namby namby momentum brigade...who seemingly don't want coronavirus deaths, yet also don't want any of their freedoms impinged upon.

 

[Kroffe]

That's how Countries like Singapore can keep the virus under control.

You'd have liberals moaning it was an infringement of their human rights over here

I'd much rather put my faith in places like that who have experience and have dealt with SARS before over somewhere that has to pander to the namby namby momentum brigade...who seemingly don't want coronavirus deaths, yet also don't want any of their freedoms impinged upon.

Yeah, like all the liberals in USA out with their guns and confederate flags.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Yeah, like all the liberals in USA out with their guns and confederate flags.

I think we should leave Harry to the eye rolls

Maybe the word liberal was too generic as I'm quite liberal myself. Picture the sandal wearing, latte sipping, middle class ideological liberal and we are closer to the mark of who I meant

 

[Harry_BKK]

That's how Countries like Singapore can keep the virus under control.

You'd have liberals moaning it was an infringement of their human rights over here

I'd much rather put my faith in places like that who have experience and have dealt with SARS before over somewhere that has to pander to the namby namby momentum brigade...who seemingly don't want coronavirus deaths, yet also don't want any of their freedoms impinged upon.

To be honest, SG is often extremely draconian, e.g. any amount of drugs someone tries to smuggle into the country is facing the death sentence.

The locals pay SGD1000 fines for a first stop without a mask, 10K and/or prison up to 6 months and/or caning for the second.

They did a stellar job as they set-up an entire system after SARS. That was until they made the mistake to forget about the worker dormitories. You have up to 50K people in each, 10-20 in a room, sharing showers and kitchen/cafeteria and it spread like a wildfire. Without those cases we would be below 1000 infected patients.

What is really strange yet very positive. SG has over 30K cases and only 22 deaths. Transfer that to the UK with 260K cases and you should have not more than 200 deaths and not some 37K. Germany with 180K cases would have only about 130 deaths and not over 8K

Why the big difference is anyone's guess.

 

[Kroffe]

I think we should leave Harry to the eye rolls

Maybe the word liberal was too generic as I'm quite liberal myself. Picture the sandal wearing, latte sipping, middle class ideological liberal and we are closer to the mark of who I meant

Sandals are so overrated.
Shoes overall are overrated i guess.
I bought a pair running shoes some time ago, mostly just to see how the hell they work.
Turns out you have to do all the running yourself, so they should really just be called shoes.

If only it were socially acceptable to be barefoot i would never wear those foot-prisons.

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[sufferinsilence]

To be honest, SG is often extremely draconian, e.g. any amount of drugs someone tries to smuggle into the country is facing the death sentence.

The locals pay SGD1000 fines for a first stop without a mask, 10K and/or prison up to 6 months and/or caning for the second.

They did a stellar job as they set-up an entire system after SARS. That was until they made the mistake to forget about the worker dormitories. You have up to 50K people in each, 10-20 in a room, sharing showers and kitchen/cafeteria and it spread like a wildfire. Without those cases we would be below 1000 infected patients.

What is really strange yet very positive. SG has over 30K cases and only 22 deaths. Transfer that to the UK with 260K cases and you should have not more than 200 deaths and not some 37K. Germany with 180K cases would have only about 130 deaths and not over 8K

Why the big difference is anyone's guess.

Quite a difference indeed. Qatar has even less deaths: 23 with over 43k cases. Meanwhile we're standing strong at over 9000 deaths in 57k cases.

 

[sufferinsilence]

That's how Countries like Singapore can keep the virus under control.

You'd have liberals moaning it was an infringement of their human rights over here

I'd much rather put my faith in places like that who have experience and have dealt with SARS before over somewhere that has to pander to the namby namby momentum brigade...who seemingly don't want coronavirus deaths, yet also don't want any of their freedoms impinged upon.

It's more the right leaning politicians/people who have an issue with the lockdown rules and regulations over here. Same with almost every country really.

Maybe the UK is different, as usual

 

[Mr_Slot5]

It's more the right leaning politicians/people who have an issue with the lockdown rules and regulations over here. Same with almost every country really.

Maybe the UK is different, as usual

Yes the UK sure likes to be different

 

[shadow123]

Talk about hero to zero, Boris has managed that in spectacular fashion,lost all respect for the guy although
to be honest I dont think he has been right since he had the virus.
If Cummings had one bit of integrity he would help him out by doing the decent thing,he must be a real
shit allowing this to continue and I have no Idea why Boris is so supportive of him.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Talk about hero to zero, Boris has managed that in spectacular fashion,lost all respect for the guy although
to be honest I dont think he has been right since he had the virus.
If Cummings had one bit of integrity he would help him out by doing the decent thing,he must be a real
shit allowing this to continue and I have no Idea why Boris is so supportive of him.

I'd say if it does come out that the child of Cummings has special needs then Boris has done the ethical thing in not sacking him.

In fact I think Boris would be completely vindicated in his actions and would explain why he is so staunchly backing Cummings.

I'd suggest we don't know the full ins and outs and a trial by media is not cool at all.

 

[shadow123]

Understand that a special needs child might need more support but Cummings had relatives closer
to London and its no excuse for going off on jollies and admiring bluebells, Try that on with your local police.

 

[bamberfishcake]

To be honest, SG is often extremely draconian, e.g. any amount of drugs someone tries to smuggle into the country is facing the death sentence.

The locals pay SGD1000 fines for a first stop without a mask, 10K and/or prison up to 6 months and/or caning for the second.

They did a stellar job as they set-up an entire system after SARS. That was until they made the mistake to forget about the worker dormitories. You have up to 50K people in each, 10-20 in a room, sharing showers and kitchen/cafeteria and it spread like a wildfire. Without those cases we would be below 1000 infected patients.

What is really strange yet very positive. SG has over 30K cases and only 22 deaths. Transfer that to the UK with 260K cases and you should have not more than 200 deaths and not some 37K. Germany with 180K cases would have only about 130 deaths and not over 8K

Why the big difference is anyone's guess.

My guess would be diet and lifestyle - Better diet and lifestyle = better immune system and healthier body and mind.

You cannot manufacture an immune system as good as mother natures.

Regarding Boris. He has truly demonstrated just how inept he is at being a leader.

I am sure he is a nice bloke but who needs 'Tim Nice But Dim' running a country....

 

[pinnit2014]

There wouldn't be the so-called trial by media if Johnson had came out, at least, semi coherent, not jittery, contradictory, quick to cut off any questions, not even really answering anything - that wasn't the hallmark of someone who had any confidence in anything he was saying yesterday: merely back peddling to keep the puppet master in play.

He'd an opportunity to at least put it semi to bed but instead came across as a bumbling arse.

Having said that, some of those reporters were lucky not to have their expensive equipment shoved certain places.

 

[bamberfishcake]

There wouldn't be the so-called trial by media if Johnson had came out, at least, semi coherent, not jittery, contradictory, quick to cut off any questions, not even really answering anything - that wasn't the hallmark of someone who had any confidence in anything he was saying yesterday: merely back peddling to keep the puppet master in play.

He'd an opportunity to at least put it semi to bed but instead came across as a bumbling arse.

Having said that, some of those reporters were lucky not to have their expensive equipment shoved certain places.

So true. No conviction or decisiveness.

Agree the media do not help at all. They are exactly like the politicians with their quarrelling, accusations and bullshit.

Edit: I should say i mean the mainstream media - the politically charged papers we all know and hate.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Understand that a special needs child might need more support but Cummings had relatives closer
to London and its no excuse for going off on jollies and admiring bluebells, Try that on with your local police.

At the time the Castle Barnard trip happened, the change in law stated people with special needs (autism etc) could do such things. Totally within the law. This was after their isolation period ended.

People are overlooking the fact that the police have already concluded no wrongdoing with the initial journey and IF the autism rumours are true, they'll conclude the same about the Castle Barnard trip.

We'll still have the same conspiracy crackpots saying the police were lent on though.

 

[cncas2123]

At the time the Castle Barnard trip happened, the change in law stated people with special needs (autism etc) could do such things. Totally within the law. This was after their isolation period ended.

People are overlooking the fact that the police have already concluded no wrongdoing with the initial journey and IF the autism rumours are true, they'll conclude the same about the Castle Barnard trip.

We'll still have the same conspiracy crackpots saying the police were lent on though.

I haven’t fully read the guidelines on special needs children/adults but my understanding was they were in place not to disrupt the child’s routine, so would the trip to Barnard Castle be considered part of the normal routine?

 

[shadow123]

Just a load of crap ,if the police stopped 100 members of the public for doing exactly the same thing ever one
would be have been either fined or sent home with a good ear bashing,Think its down to the old boys club,
Cummings father is Lord something or other I believe,all shit in the same bucket.We deserve better.

 

[Harry_BKK]

My guess would be diet and lifestyle - Better diet and lifestyle = better immune system and healthier body and mind.

You cannot manufacture an immune system as good as mother natures.

Regarding Boris. He has truly demonstrated just how inept he is at being a leader.

I am sure he is a nice bloke but who needs 'Tim Nice But Dim' running a country....

Lifestyle, diet, hot weather, climate - who knows. SARS was ravaging through these countries, yet COVID seems less lethal in these regions.

But let me give you one more nugget to visualize how they contain the spread.

Anytime I enter a mall, I have my temperature checked and a scan of my ID (resident passes and citizen IDs are linked to your mobile number). The same process is repeated if I enter a larger store inside the mall. Once I leave, I need to scan again my ID. Now should any case/cluster appear in a mall, they can instantly trace the people who were there. Any collected data is deleted after two infections cycles (2x28 days).

Is any country in the Western World doing such a thing?

 

[bamberfishcake]

Lifestyle, diet, hot weather, climate - who knows. SARS was ravaging through these countries, yet COVID seems less lethal in these regions.

But let me give you one more nugget to visualize how they contain the spread.

Anytime I enter a mall, I have my temperature checked and a scan of my ID (resident passes and citizen IDs are linked to your mobile number). The same process is repeated if I enter a larger store inside the mall. Once I leave, I need to scan again my ID. Now should any case/cluster appear in a mall, they can instantly trace the people who were there. Any collected data is deleted after two infections cycles (2x28 days).

Is any country in the Western World doing such a thing?

Such draconian measures are necessary for the protection of people and vital for humanity in these scenarios.

Its silly to think that left or right must always be the way.

Adaptability is key.

Drastic measures, if necessary, do not need to be justified to one way liberalist thinkers until after the event when the end justifies the means and speaks for itself.

Sometimes leaders and politicians need to rule with an iron fist otherwise chaos ensues as seen many times throughout history.

Edit: What island was it that was shooting people breaking lockdown? I think you mentioned it previously @Harry_BKK a month or so ago. I wonder how their stats are.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Such draconian measures are necessary for the protection of people and vital for humanity in these scenarios.

Its silly to think that left or right must always be the way.

Adaptability is key.

Drastic measures, if necessary, do not need to be justified to one way liberalist thinkers until after the event when the end justifies the means and speaks for itself.

Sometimes leaders and politicians need to rule with an iron fist otherwise chaos ensues as seen many times throughout history.

Edit: What island was it that was shooting people breaking lockdown? I think you mentioned it previously @Harry_BKK a month or so ago. I wonder how their stats are.

Agree. It is the only way to stop a pandemic efficiently and quickly.

I venture to say that if the world would have locked down for the 2-3 weeks in February similar to Wuhan, we would have come out nearly unscathed and pretty much back to normal by now.

Instead, it seems to draw on for months and months, only making it more painful economically for all and personally for those losing someone. But then, no one was prepared to do anything draconian. I remember Mr T saying, I don't want the ship to dock as it will double our numbers. He wasn't the only one downplaying it though.

IIRC, Philippines.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Sometimes leaders and politicians need to rule with an iron fist otherwise chaos ensues as seen many times throughout history.

Edit: What island was it that was shooting people breaking lockdown? I think you mentioned it previously @Harry_BKK a month or so ago. I wonder how their stats are.

You mean this kind of leader?

 

[colinsunderland]

At the time the Castle Barnard trip happened, the change in law stated people with special needs (autism etc) could do such things. Totally within the law. This was after their isolation period ended.

People are overlooking the fact that the police have already concluded no wrongdoing with the initial journey and IF the autism rumours are true, they'll conclude the same about the Castle Barnard trip.

We'll still have the same conspiracy crackpots saying the police were lent on though.

And which mythical law did you mean earlier when you said he was allowed to travel over 250 miles when his wife was showing symptoms?
You say the police have concluded there was no wrongdoing yet the government stated the police haven't spoken to Cummings or anyone in his family. Do you have a link to the police statement saying they had investigated?

Even if he didn't actually break the law, what he and his family did, was completely irresponsible. They had symptoms and he took a 260 mile drive. At the time the press were showing people at parks and beaches, and police were fining people for driving a couple of miles to walk round a park. They were fining them under laws he helped form. Yet you think thats acceptable?

 

[cncas2123]

Picked up on this report from Reuters - Dutch Government believe theres a second case of Mink to human transfer.
I have to say I didn't realise that it had happened before, but this will maybe show how one of these viruses can mutate naturally and make the jump from animal to human.

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[snorky510238]

Compare that to how the lockdown rules are enforced here in SG.

If I get caught anywhere outside without a mask, I will lose my Long-Stay Visa, have to instantly leave SG (they give you 24hrs) and will never be allowed back into the country. Never mind the SGD10,000 fine I would have to pay.

Although strict maybe not overly effective, as you have one of the highest infection rates per capita, worldwide. Higher than America even, although your death rates are extremely low.