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Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

It's all just common sense isn't it really. If ill with a cold, flu or virus, my going out less would lessen the number of people I'd infect with my filth, if I were even up to strength to do that anyway.

And whilst I'm just as likely to infect someone popping off to the shops for 10 minutes, I'd have to be having an epic sneezing or coughing fit, cough directly at every handle and counter I'd come across, maybe shake the shopkeeper's hand to congratulate them on their excellent running of their establishment whilst I'm at it.

Fair to say 'those laid low' by any illness would likely get their skivvy to do all the chores and stock up supplies.

So whilst those that can work at home, should do so. In fact any person with some sense of hygienic civic responsibility shouldn't even need to be told anyway. It's the fact that many are just ignorant to basic human etiquette.

And those in front-line services command all our respect, simply for doing their job regardless, in full knowledge that they're essentially at high risk of contracting this particular virus. Some jobs you simply can't plead the "But what about" card, such is their burden of responsibility to maintain a functioning society,

And to those that simply can't afford to abscond from office-esque workplaces or are too selfish for fear of loss of earnings need to get their priorities straight. Surely better safe than sorry for a few bucks?
 
I’m admittedly lucky to A. Have a job that doesn’t require an ‘arse on seat 35km away’ and B. To have an employer that’s relatively enlightened (not the old,‘you’re only working when I see you’.

We’ve over the years invested quite heavily in ‘remote’ working so unlike a lot of other places have the infrastructure to do so. Also helps that it’s a service industry.

I started the odd day WFH but it’s been upped in recent years as the ability to do more have increased to the point I really only go in on an exception basis.

The issue is for a lot of other jobs that you simply can’t do from the house; like a manufacturing job, relying on overtime etc; must create a pressure to ‘push on’ for fear of losing cash.

Some employers simply suck as well. Small businesses are really going to feel the effects of this; while a tax dodging, emissions rigging outfit could easily absorb the cost ( poor shareholders might need to take a hit: boo boo),the SMEs are really going to take a blow and I’m sure pressure will come down the line to keep as many in the workplace as possible, sadly.

Certainly not seen anyone going ‘haha’ when pointing at folk who can’t work remotely.
 
One of the chief advantages of limiting interactions with other people is slowing the rate of infection. So instead of 300 people requiring hospitalization all at once, you might have 30 this week, another 40 next week, etc.

Ontario public schools will be closed for two weeks after the Match break.

Gatherings of over 250 people are banned in Ontario.
 
I read that Trump has banned all flights to the USA from Europe, which means Americans abroad will be stranded.

Is a government - any government - legally able to prevent its citizens from returning home?

Also, Centrelink has apparently stopped welfare payments to any Aussie abroad who is not able to return to Australia due to being quarantined doe to COVID-19, if they have exceeded the permitted time away from Australia. :mad: Admittedly, I have only read this from one source but if verified as being true, that is appalling behaviour by our government.
 
It's all just common sense isn't it really. If ill with a cold, flu or virus, my going out less would lessen the number of people I'd infect with my filth, if I were even up to strength to do that anyway.

And whilst I'm just as likely to infect someone popping off to the shops for 10 minutes, I'd have to be having an epic sneezing or coughing fit, cough directly at every handle and counter I'd come across, maybe shake the shopkeeper's hand to congratulate them on their excellent running of their establishment whilst I'm at it.

Fair to say 'those laid low' by any illness would likely get their skivvy to do all the chores and stock up supplies.

So whilst those that can work at home, should do so. In fact any person with some sense of hygienic civic responsibility shouldn't even need to be told anyway. It's the fact that many are just ignorant to basic human etiquette.

And those in front-line services command all our respect, simply for doing their job regardless, in full knowledge that they're essentially at high risk of contracting this particular virus. Some jobs you simply can't plead the "But what about" card, such is their burden of responsibility to maintain a functioning society,

And to those that simply can't afford to abscond from office-esque workplaces or are too selfish for fear of loss of earnings need to get their priorities straight. Surely better safe than sorry for a few bucks?
Wow. The milk of human kindness is strong with this one.

Many people live hand to mouth, and the loss of earnings could result in not being able to buy food, medicine, pay rent, etc. So it not as simple as being "better safe than sorry for a few bucks."

If they actually have the virus, that is another story - the employer should have a legal obligation to continue paying their wages. But if they self-isolate, what then? They are doing society a favour, but they are on shaky ground regarding payment of their wages. The end result is still the same - no money for food, medicine etc.
 
Going to see the worst of human nature and hopefully a bit of the best with this bloody virus.
Comes down to the basic instinct of protecting oneself and ones loved ones then others (in that order).
We are going to have to accept big changes and disruptions for a while,people moaning
about schools closing, sports and events being cancelled and shortages of stuff are pathetic,its far
bigger than that, we have to help each other however we can.
Sounds corny I know but its how we got through WW2.
 
Wow. The milk of human kindness is strong with this one.

Many people live hand to mouth, and the loss of earnings could result in not being able to buy food, medicine, pay rent, etc. So it not as simple as being "better safe than sorry for a few bucks."

If they actually have the virus, that is another story - the employer should have a legal obligation to continue paying their wages. But if they self-isolate, what then? They are doing society a favour, but they are on shaky ground regarding payment of their wages. The end result is still the same - no money for food, medicine etc.
Alright excellent! We'll all just absolve ourselves of personal responsibility and go about possibly infecting everyone we come into contact with! Brilliant stratagem!

Thankyou also for the kind words!
 
If this virus really does spread in the numbers the experts are predicting, I wonder if it will drive us into becoming an insular, online world?

So many businesses will go bust if everyone is quarantined, and many of those will never recover. So will we be buying our jewellery, clothes, groceries, shoes, etc online in future, as that will be the only avenue available?

Also, already the tourism industry is severely impacted - Princess Line cruises have totally shut down all cruises, airlines are flying nearly empty, and Travel Agents are also shutting up shop.

And let's not forget the restaurants who have not seen a customer in weeks, leading of course to closure.

AND, HORRORS OF HORRORS, THE AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX HAS JUST BEEN CANCELLED.

So this virus is a sure-fire way of stopping globalisation in its tracks. No more working or travelling abroad because unless you are super-rich, there will be no means available to go anywhere.

All those unemployed people will be a drain on a country's economy, which will be struggling in the aftermath of this virus and the way it is being handled.

Simply put, there will be the Haves. Totally outnumbered by the Have-Nots.

Civil Wars in the making if we are not careful how we play this one out.

Do I believe in what I have just written? Not entirely, but it certainly is worth thinking about.
 
Alright excellent! We'll all just absolve ourselves of personal responsibility and go about possibly infecting everyone we come into contact with! Brilliant stratagem!

Thankyou also for the kind words!
Are you seriously advocating that people should resign themselves to starving and/or being made homeless because they are in the unenviable position of not being able to do what they should, rather than what they should not?
 
Are you seriously advocating that people should resign themselves to starving and/or being made homeless because they are in the unenviable position of not being able to do what they should, rather than what they should not?
Are you seriously implying that people that self-isolate are 'holier than thou' and should mingle with the masses spreading contagion at the expense of earnings?
 
Are you seriously implying that people that self-isolate should be allowed to starve in their garrets because they are being responsible, even if their employers are not?
Why would that not be responsible by some employers? And why the dramatic extremes? How many people do you envisage would starve at home for a couple of weeks?
 
Why would that not be responsible by some employers? And why the dramatic extremes? How many people do you envisage would starve at home for a couple of weeks?
Not paying wages for self-isolation? I think that is absolutely reprehensible of the employer.

Why the dramatic extremes? "Mingle with the masses spreading contagion at the expense of earnings" is a dramatic extreme.

How many people would starve at home for a couple of weeks? Okay...that was a bit dramatic on my part, but the point remains. For a lot of people it is not just a couple of bucks, but the ability to pay bills, food etc, that, if taken away from them, would make their lives very uncomfortable, and could have a knock on effect as they would always be playing catchup.
 
I read that Trump has banned all flights to the USA from Europe, which means Americans abroad will be stranded.

Is a government - any government - legally able to prevent its citizens from returning home?

Also, Centrelink has apparently stopped welfare payments to any Aussie abroad who is not able to return to Australia due to being quarantined doe to COVID-19, if they have exceeded the permitted time away from Australia. :mad: Admittedly, I have only read this from one source but if verified as being true, that is appalling behaviour by our government.


What about US citizens?

This policy doesn’t apply to legal permanent residents of the US, immediate family members of US citizens (parents, children, spouses, etc.), and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation.


Those who are allowed to travel to the US will be subjected to additional screening, though we don’t yet know what this will look like.
 
I must admit I'm a bit lost too :oops:

I think something is wrong with the economic system if there is no leeway or room for emergency actions, shops and businesses survived the five years of ww2 when demand for products must have dropped off and other problems, and yet now we face loo paper armageddon and a world financial crash.

So far the uk govt has done very little compared to other countries, not sure if it's because they're incapable of doing anything, don't care if a few thousand die or some other 'scientific' reason.

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[guardian]

The experts who have guided the British public through coronavirus outbreak

Advisers such as chief medical officer Chris Whitty have restored the public’s faith in officialdom :confused:

They haven't restored my faith.

And from today:

The government believes that banning large gatherings is one of the least effective measures a country can take, reducing the peak of the coronavirus by less than 5%. [no doubt the expert advice of whitty, but he looks a bit of a wally to me]

meanwhile australia's pm " They should however avoid gatherings over 500 people..."


Boris Johnson was updated on the coronavirus outbreak in a call on Friday with Chief Medical Officer Professor Chris Whitty. The professor also gave evidence to the Health Select Committee on Friday, urging people to avoid shaking hands with those who can be seen coughing in their hands and not immediately washing them after. But as he gave such advice, the Professor could be seen coughing in his own hands himself – failing to follow his own advice.

Experts have warned consistently about the importance of not moving ahead too quickly with dramatic lifestyle changes to try to deal with the virus.

A complete and immediate “lockdown” on movement could suppress the virus for a short time but it would return once measures are lifted, the uk government believes. Instead, the aim is to push the peak back toward the summer months and bring in more stringent measures down the line. :confused:
[ let it take hold now and then do something afterwards ]

There will now be a shift in testing. The contain phase was about isolating individual cases, getting a diagnosis and then “contact-tracing” the people they have spent time with and asking them to self-isolate. Many people will no longer be tested if they are showing mild symptoms

[yes because it's too much hard work and hassle to test people, mild symptoms will never progress to something more extreme silly, just self diagnose and isolate, don't pester the nhs ] :mad:
 
I must admit I'm a bit lost too :oops:

I think something is wrong with the economic system if there is no leeway or room for emergency actions, shops and businesses survived the five years of ww2 when demand for products must have dropped off and other problems, and yet now we face loo paper armageddon and a world financial crash.

So far the uk govt has done very little compared to other countries, not sure if it's because they're incapable of doing anything, don't care if a few thousand die or some other 'scientific' reason.

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The experts who have guided the British public through coronavirus outbreak

Advisers such as chief medical officer Chris Whitty have restored the public’s faith in officialdom :confused:

They haven't restored my faith.

And from today:

The government believes that banning large gatherings is one of the least effective measures a country can take, reducing the peak of the coronavirus by less than 5%. [no doubt the expert advice of whitty, but he looks a bit of a wally to me]

meanwhile australia's pm " They should however avoid gatherings over 500 people..."


Boris Johnson was updated on the coronavirus outbreak in a call on Friday with Chief Medical Officer Professor Chris Whitty. The professor also gave evidence to the Health Select Committee on Friday, urging people to avoid shaking hands with those who can be seen coughing in their hands and not immediately washing them after. But as he gave such advice, the Professor could be seen coughing in his own hands himself – failing to follow his own advice.

Experts have warned consistently about the importance of not moving ahead too quickly with dramatic lifestyle changes to try to deal with the virus.

A complete and immediate “lockdown” on movement could suppress the virus for a short time but it would return once measures are lifted, the uk government believes. Instead, the aim is to push the peak back toward the summer months and bring in more stringent measures down the line. :confused:
[ let it take hold now and then do something afterwards ]

There will now be a shift in testing. The contain phase was about isolating individual cases, getting a diagnosis and then “contact-tracing” the people they have spent time with and asking them to self-isolate. Many people will no longer be tested if they are showing mild symptoms

[yes because it's too much hard work and hassle to test people, mild symptoms will never progress to something more extreme silly, just self diagnose and isolate, don't pester the nhs ] :mad:


Its Phase 2.
Phase 1 was to age us faster via Climate change/C02
Phase 2 is to kill us off earlier so we don't collect years of social security, that's why the virus targets older people.
 
The time for drastic action and a proactive stance was back in January when we saw China go to extreme lengths to contain it. I could see it (I posted in this very thread how bad I thought it would get) and many others could see it.
I don't believe for one moment that world leaders couldn't see it too. China don't lock down their economy for a common cold. That leaves a few possible scenarios...

1) World leaders really were completely ignorant to the threat
2) They knew the threat but the economy comes before people
3) This has been designed as a population control method experiment

None of these scenarios are very good really are they?
 
I read that Trump has banned all flights to the USA from Europe, which means Americans abroad will be stranded.

Is a government - any government - legally able to prevent its citizens from returning home?

Also, Centrelink has apparently stopped welfare payments to any Aussie abroad who is not able to return to Australia due to being quarantined doe to COVID-19, if they have exceeded the permitted time away from Australia. :mad: Admittedly, I have only read this from one source but if verified as being true, that is appalling behaviour by our government.
Not true all flights from Schengen countries are banned not Europe.
 
I was waiting for the first conspiracy theory post :)
You should hear the loonies on LBC last night one caller said the governmen'ts two scientists are only saying what they are to avoid the same fate as Dr David Kelly, another popular theory is this virus is just a normal virus with a new name to control the populations of the world.
 
Not true all flights from Schengen countries are banned not Europe.
I never think of the UK/Ireland as being part of Europe, although geographically of course, they are.

Glad that @slotplayer confirmed that the ban does not apply to US citizens as that would have been unbelievable.

BUT...

Trump said..."Exemptions apply to Americans who have undergone appropriate screening.."

What does that mean to those who haven't because the screening isn't available where they are? And if there is a blanket ban starting on Friday at midnight, then how are stranded Americans meant to get home?
 
I never think of the UK/Ireland as being part of Europe, although geographically of course, they are.

Glad that @slotplayer confirmed that the ban does not apply to US citizens as that would have been unbelievable.

BUT...

Trump said..."Exemptions apply to Americans who have undergone appropriate screening.."

What does that mean to those who haven't because the screening isn't available where they are? And if there is a blanket ban starting on Friday at midnight, then how are stranded Americans meant to get home?
There are other Europenan countries not in Schengen not just UK and Ireland so there are countries US people can fly to and from.
 
There are other Europenan countries not in Schengen not just UK and Ireland so there are countries US people can fly to and from.
“The travel restriction applies to foreign nationals who have been in 26 European countries with open borders agreements, in the last 14 days. "

Besides the UK and Ireland, Croatia and Ukraine are also a possibility although that has not yet been confirmed by the WH. Not sure about Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus though.

All Americans currently stuck in Europe, plus many Europeans, could fly to the UK, and then on to the USA. Not sure as to how a ban on these people could be imposed as flights from the UK are still ok, and EU residents do not have to have Border Control clearance/visas to get into the UK, so they could lie as to how long they have been there.

More importantly though, would many Americans even know about possible alternative routes back to the USA, let alone how to even get to these countries? And all by Friday, with mass panic beginning to set in.
 
“The travel restriction applies to foreign nationals who have been in 26 European countries with open borders agreements, in the last 14 days. "

Besides the UK and Ireland, Croatia and Ukraine are also a possibility although that has not yet been confirmed by the WH. Not sure about Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus though.

All Americans currently stuck in Europe, plus many Europeans, could fly to the UK, and then on to the USA. Not sure as to how a ban on these people could be imposed as flights from the UK are still ok, and EU residents do not have to have Border Control clearance/visas to get into the UK, so they could lie as to how long they have been there.

More importantly though, would many Americans even know about possible alternative routes back to the USA, let alone how to even get to these countries? And all by Friday, with mass panic beginning to set in.
Let's hope this lady isn't in that dilemma.
 
Time I got some supplies in so I can follow out the medical advice in the UK.
Need hand gel, antiseptic wipes, gloves and face masks, would be stupid not to get these while I can.
Does anyone know what is still available on the high st or will I have to order from Amazon,plenty still
available there but at a price.
 
There are currently two very different approaches, where UK is the best example of one approach and South Korea the other one.

In South Korea it looks promising, though it can quickly change and we don't know what happens when they lift restrictions, so too early to say it's the right method. I personally though believe this is best approach. What they do is first of all they secured very early supply of test kits. Government pushed for the manufacturing of these within South Korea, so they wouldn't depend on shipments elsewhere from. They have tested more than ten times the numbers tested in UK as an example. The thinking is to detect patients with Corona early to prevent the spread. Secure test facilities have been set up, constructed so people don't infect each others.

Secondly the information management has been excellent, with the government having public press conferences twice a day and the information spread through the community being a key. They also closed schools and put on restrictions early on, though not with fierce approach that China did. So people are allowed to go on a walk etc. Seems like a good middle-road approach.

UK is pretty much taking the opposite path here, whether it's the right choice or not, we won't know until afterwards, but I feel South Koreas approach will be more effective and they are also much better prepared if there are going to be more outbreaks down the line.
 
Too many so called experts in the UK advising the government.
Some guy says 60% of the population should contract the virus to provide immunity
to those in the future,
Boris seems to be fixated on pretty graphs showing how we can reduce and flatten peaks to take the strain
off the NHS.Too many unknowns at this stage to think we can manipulate the virus to do what we want.
Only one chance to get this right and its worrying that the UK seems to think doing the opposite to what
most other counties is the way to go.

See Trump may have caught it after attending a diiner sitting next to someone who has now tested positive.
He is refusing to be tested and wont self isolate.WTG Donald, show em whos boss.
 
Too many so called experts in the UK advising the government.
Some guy says 60% of the population should contract the virus to provide immunity
to those in the future,
Boris seems to be fixated on pretty graphs showing how we can reduce and flatten peaks to take the strain
off the NHS.Too many unknowns at this stage to think we can manipulate the virus to do what we want.
Only one chance to get this right and its worrying that the UK seems to think doing the opposite to what
most other counties is the way to go.

See Trump may have caught it after attending a diiner sitting next to someone who has now tested positive.
He is refusing to be tested and wont self isolate.WTG Donald, show em whos boss.
So you want to do what Italy, France and Spain are doing? Seriously? Because what a huge success they are having.
 
So you want to do what Italy, France and Spain are doing? Seriously? Because what a huge success they are having.

It took nearly 2 months for wuhan to get on top of it after a complete lockdown. Its too early to say these other countries have failed yet.
 
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No one has all the answers and I wouldnt like the responsibily Boris has to ensure the right things get done but
logically severe or total lockdown has got to be the most effective way of slowing down the spread.
Seems to be having some effect in China but maybe the decline is just a natural part of the infection cycle
 
No one has all the answers and I wouldnt like the responsibily Boris has to ensure the right things get done but
logically severe or total lockdown has got to be the most effective way of slowing down the spread.
Seems to be having some effect in China but maybe the decline is just a natural part of the infection cycle
Total lockdown? so when everyone is released from it and the virus is still there everyone will suddenly get it after been in isolation.
 
You cant have total lockdown you need police ambulance fire doctors nurses, electric workers, water company workers, supermarket staff, suppliers lorry drivers. Etc. Plus British public wont accept a total lockdown they will riot first.
 
You cant have total lockdown you need police ambulance fire doctors nurses, electric workers, water company workers, supermarket staff, suppliers lorry drivers. Etc. Plus British public wont accept a total lockdown they will riot first.

What ever lockdown wuhan did is now paying off. So that lockdown seems to be effective.
 
Sigh three months? theres no one left to get it ffs. Plus the uk wont be able to enforce it we are a not a comminist country it is unenforceable

Dont want to be rude but you seem quick to disagree with most of the points you comment on but
you dont seem to come up with any constructive answers,.
I dont mind anyone implying I am talking bollocks,I base my comments on what I see on the news
and listening to the conflicting views of so called experts, I am as confused as most people are.
You seem to be involved with the NHS, so it would be interesting to know what you would do if you
were in the hot seat.
 
I read that Trump has banned all flights to the USA from Europe, which means Americans abroad will be stranded.

Is a government - any government - legally able to prevent its citizens from returning home?

Also, Centrelink has apparently stopped welfare payments to any Aussie abroad who is not able to return to Australia due to being quarantined doe to COVID-19, if they have exceeded the permitted time away from Australia. :mad: Admittedly, I have only read this from one source but if verified as being true, that is appalling behaviour by our government.


Trump apparently went off script with the line about banning flights and trade with Europe.

US citizens will be allowed to fly back. They’ve clarified it.
 
We started changing appointments to telephone appointments today from face to face and OMG did some people not like it, a couple of people threatening to make complaints to the official NHS organisations and what is the point in offering services if I can't see anyone etc.

One of the people was not even needing emergency treatment just hormone medication.

I really hate the general public glad I don't work with the public on a daily basis anymore.
 

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