Challenge X-mas - WTF???

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Anyone else get a '$10,000 Christmas Giveaway' offer from Challenge Casino?

Check out the conditions below...
(I added the numbers)

The first 4 are OK - no problem.

But then we get to the 5th one:
"Prize will be allocated to the player who has accumulated the highest number of entries." :what:
In other words, the player who deposits the most into their casino account wins!

That's fair enough, but jump to the 8th condition:
"The winner will be drawn and notified via email within 48 hours of the completion of the promotional period."
Now to me 'drawn' implies quite clearly that it is a random draw - which totally contradicts condition 5!

Now either they are deliberately trying to fool people - or they are grossly incompetent.
Either one grinds my nuts! :mad:

Oh, and why send this e-mail to everyone?
Only a tiny percentage of players - the mega-high-rollers - are going to be in with a shout. :confused:
.
 

paul02085

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
USA
I wonder if they mean a separate prize from the $10k? Either way its confusing and/or contradictory (what a surprise)
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
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Location
Bexhill on sea, England
I've just noticed that actually condition 2 contradicts 5 even more than 8 does!

It actually says 'entries into the draw'

Sorry Challenge, but that's just scummy.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Confusing!

I had this also, so had it out with VIP support.
Conclusion is that it is a "Deposit & Wager" tournament rather than a lucky draw. The terms posted above are not the ones in the mail I had from Phoenician. Typical Casino Action confusion, and worse still, NO SCOREBOARD!

High Rollers should bear in mind the $10,000 maximum weekly cash-in limit at these casinos, so this will limit the throughput somewhat.
The winner will probably have to deposit 30K or more, and have around 5K to play with over the 2 weeks that is not comitted to other Xmax casino goodies.


I predict that the winner will likely be "Brian H" at Casino Action. I have been keeping records of the tournaments for the past year or so!
There could be an upset though, if a certain high roller from early in the year and end of 2004 returns for a crack at this. - this contest appears to be about who has the most money sloshing around, not necessarily who can play the best or indeed the most.


Knowing them, I expect they will say I was misinformed, and it is a draw after all, as in the Challenge mailer.
It is a single 10K, not one prize per casino.
 

funeralparty

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Location
Houston
Another disturbing brainstorm from the Casino Action group. What used to be my favorite MG group is getting ready to get a mass uninstall. Im glad I wasn't the only one who was pissed about this.

The most deceptive part of all this was the opening line:

"To end 2005 on a winning note, we are giving away $10,000 to one LUCKY player"

How does luck come into play with this??? We simply keep throwing are money at them??

This group also isn't exactly truthful about announcing who the winners are on some of their contests. I remember one, earlier this year (I believe it was a July 4th promo).....they were giving away 10 $500 prizes to be drawn at random.....winners were to be announced on the message of the day. Well, they never were....so I contacted support about the list of winners. They told me winners were already notified via email. How can I be sure of that??? This isn't the first time winners were mysteriously not announced....

Perhaps vinyl can shed some light on this?
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Isn't this the same group that has another thread here running on them regarding heavy check withdrawal fees and confiscating without further notification cash left overlong in accounts?
 

funeralparty

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Location
Houston
It appears that they have now changed rule #5 in the terms and conditions.

I just logged in and it now states that "prize will be drawn randomly from all entries received"

I wonder if the original was a mistake, or they got a lot of complaints of the unfairness of it..........or perhaps management got a look at this thread:thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This really pisses me off now!

I was told CATEGORICALLY by support that indeed I understood correctly that the top depositor gets the prize. AFTER 2 days and nearly 1500 I now find they have changed this yet again and all terms point to a lucky draw! How many others have played this as a tournament in the belief that the amount they can deposit allows them to compete head to head. How the F... can they be trusted in future when they can change the fundamental nature of a promotion, AND when support give the wrong answer to players who raise the issue; only to spend money participating in the wrong manner!
This IS the same group who have hidden charges for cheques, who cancel big tournaments (Blackjack), at the very last minute, keep posting confusing rules, have a crap bonus scheme (till now). Don't post all results on message of the day - note they no longer publish ANY data about this so called random wheel of cash. Formerly the list of yesterdays winners, and total payout each month was freely available - now it's secret, we have to take their word for it that a million credits are paid out. I have noticed a famine on this wheel now that bonuses are real!
I think this lot are attempting commercial suicide!!!
Having ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on offer for Thanksgiving didn't help, as the bulk of the market is US based!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Evidence of ineptitude.

I have retrieved hard evidence that players have been mislead both by the confusing terms AND by support!
After requesting clarification of these terms I received this "in a nutshell" reply:- (my highlighting)

Dear <vinyl>,

Thank you for contacting Phoenician Casino.

The 10K giveaway does actually go to the player that deposits the most during the competition period. Deposits need to be played once over to earn tickets.

Please do not hesitate in contacting us if you have any further questions or comments. The tracking number for this issue is LTK6303093914X.

Andrew T

Phoenician Casino
VIP Services

This certainly does not match the terms as now posted - this is a total change of the nature of the promotion, and requires a completely different approach, and degree of risk to individual players. I have wasted both time and money playing this seriously as a tournament in the vein of the daily slots tournament as this is what I have been told. Now it is simply stated as a drawing from all tickets, which is totally different, and I would have played less had I known this from the outset, and abandoned attempts to gain further tickets when the software turned nasty (as it did).

I feel I can no longer even trust support to give the correct answer when requesting clarification on an issue. As this is the latest in a number of complaints about this group to surface in quick succession I believe they should be shown the "yellow card" and told to improve or be relegated temporarily from the accredited list as Fortune Lounge have been over their own poor management of the spam issues.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Beyond a joke!

I have received more from support. They are in complete denial over this. Pity us forum members have the evidence!!
The reply is not even one to my complaint - it's trying to make out I misunderstood the competition and no confusing terms were ever changed:-

Dear <vinyl>,

Thank you for contacting Phoenician Casino.

I will have VIP services contact your explaining the competition in full for you.

Please note that the terms and conditions on the site have not changed and can be checked by accessing the follwoing link.


Here is what they mean by "...have not changed..." - looks like a very significant change of format to me!

FRIDAY Launch & Mailer

Eligibility Requirements:
* Players are required to make a deposit during the promotional period.
* For every £10 a player deposits, they will receive a entry for the draw.
* Players are required to play their deposits in order to be eligible for the prizes.
* If players withdraw the deposits made prior to wagering, the deposits will not be counted towards the entries.
* Prize will be allocated to the player who has accumulated the highest number of entries* The prize of £10,000 will be credited to the winner's REAL account.
* There are NO WAGERING requirements attached to this prize.
* The winner will be drawn and notified via email within 48 hours of the completion of the promotional period.
* The winner will also be posted on the message of the day.
* Players may contact our 24/7 customer care for updates on their entries.

TODAY

Eligibility Requirements:
* Players are required to make a deposit during the promotional period.
* For every £10 a player deposits, they will receive a entry for the draw.
* Players are required to play their deposits in order to be eligible for the prizes.
* If players withdraw the deposits made prior to wagering, the deposits will not be counted towards the entries.
* Prize will be drawn randomly from all entries received.* The prize of £10,000 credits wiill be credited to the winner's REAL account.
* There are NO WAGERING requirements attached to this prize.
* The winner will be randonly drawn and notified via email within 48 hours of the completion of the promotional period.
* The winner will also be posted on the message of the day.
* Players may contact our 24/7 customer care for updates on their entries.

I don't need these terms "explained", I want the explanation I receive to be TRUE!!!! The explanation I received in the above posting was quite clear, what is NOT clear is how it is an explanation of a "random draw" as now in the terms. If these have not ever changed, then the explanation I originally received was a complete fabrication.

This group must OWN UP to this cock-up, and not remain in denial and blame players for not understanding the terms and getting "the wrong end of the stick" when they played over the weekend.
 
Last edited:

tim5ny

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Do you ever get the feeling that some of these casino operators think we're just a bunch of stupid fools?
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
FFS - I can't believe they've changed this mid offer. I just wired over £90,000 to my Click2Pay account to go for the £10K prize on top of the £6K+ I've already deposited and wagered.

They better have a bloody good explanation for this 'change' - or at least pay me my wire charges and loss if interest.

I'm platinum at 3 of their casinos and expect more respect than this. They didn't even have a term in the conditions allowing them to change the T&Cs :mad:

Casino Action - what is your explanation for these changes?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi!

You should not have mentioned that 90K:D

How do you know they won't change it back to a deposit & wager contest again:D :D

I had also done 5K, with another 10K lined up just for this week.

You should also realise that the 90K would spend some time in your account after the end of this as there is a 10K limit on withdrawals per week, and it would take 9 weeks to retrieve the 90K, as well as being able to recirculate 20K during the contest.

Although I was once told that this 10K limit did not apply to Instant Payments, this appears also to be wrong. I made a speculative enquiry about my current available limit and was told that the 7K of instant payments had in fact reduced my limit for conventional withdrawals.
Without this limit, you could have recirculated funds every 2 days except weekends.
Incidentally, VIP support did not get back to me to "explain" this promotion in further detail (not that I need it).

At least I am not the only player pissed at arranging funds for this event at the expense of other promotions, as well as factoring in charges involved in obtaining the funds quickly enough to give me a decent shot.
I was going to be able to do 50K through this, so would have lost to you anyway, but that's not the point!
I am now playing this as a draw, and treating it as a "side dish" rather than a main event Xmas promotion, and if the games turn nasty I am off down the Jackpot Factory or the Palace. I would not be playing at all had they still had those damn bonus accounts with 20x WR and confiscation of original bonus.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
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Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Just curious - has anyone PMd Adriches yet? Or are you waiting for me to do it? :D
 

Casino Action

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Location
Australia
Response from Casino Action

Hi All,

On behalf of the casino action, I would like to apologise for any confusion regarding the terms and conditions for this promotion. The terms were initially worded to indicate that the player with the highest number of entries would win the prize. However, after the release of this promotion, there were many posts on this forum about the fairness of the promotion. Due to the response from our players here, we were urged to reconsider this promotion.

The slight clarification of the terms is designed to make this competition fair for all our players and has been intended with the best of intentions for the festive season.

We do hope you enjoy this competition and we wish all our players the best of luck!:thumbsup:

VIP Services,
Casino Action
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
So basically you've decided to screw the players that deposited and wagered for this under the original terms?

Retroactively changing terms and conditions after players have already deposited and wagered stinks. Only scum bag casinos do this and I for one will certainly advises anyone who asks to stay well away from yourselves.
 

largeeyes

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Location
North America
I vote for the incompetent category. This isn't much different than the ones that make you wager about a 1/4 mil on a slot to win....like all those Fortune Lounge cruise contests.

KasinoKing said:
Anyone else get a '$10,000 Christmas Giveaway' offer from Challenge Casino?

Check out the conditions below...
(I added the numbers)

The first 4 are OK - no problem.

But then we get to the 5th one:
"Prize will be allocated to the player who has accumulated the highest number of entries." :what:
In other words, the player who deposits the most into their casino account wins!

That's fair enough, but jump to the 8th condition:
"The winner will be drawn and notified via email within 48 hours of the completion of the promotional period."
Now to me 'drawn' implies quite clearly that it is a random draw - which totally contradicts condition 5!

Now either they are deliberately trying to fool people - or they are grossly incompetent.
Either one grinds my nuts! :mad:

Oh, and why send this e-mail to everyone?
Only a tiny percentage of players - the mega-high-rollers - are going to be in with a shout. :confused:
.
 

largeeyes

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Location
North America
Also, might I add:

Dear Casinos,

For a nominal fee I will review all your press releases and advertisements to prevent you such embarassment. Think about it! I know the English language is quite difficult to master. Let me help you not look like fools! And I do mean that in the nicest, non-insulting way. I am really just a phonecall or email away. I can be wooed to tropical locales quite easily. I can be hired long term as well. :thumbsup:

Yours Truly,

largeeyes
 

scrollock

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Location
boro, uk
largeeyes said:
Also, might I add:

Dear Casinos,

For a nominal fee I will review all your press releases and advertisements to prevent you such embarassment. Think about it! I know the English language is quite difficult to master. Let me help you not look like fools! And I do mean that in the nicest, non-insulting way. I am really just a phonecall or email away. I can be wooed to tropical locales quite easily. I can be hired long term as well. :thumbsup:

Yours Truly,

largeeyes

any chance of sorting joyland out with a mathematician aswell ? :)
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Casino Action said:
On behalf of the casino action, I would like to apologise for any confusion regarding the terms and conditions for this promotion. The terms were initially worded to indicate that the player with the highest number of entries would win the prize. However, after the release of this promotion, there were many posts on this forum about the fairness of the promotion....
Thanks for the response Trish, but I'm expecting a little more than this. This seems as though no one thought this out the way it should have been thought out. The Casino Action casinos have been in business for quite a while now, and you guys know exactly what you are doing. Sloppy terms are not the norm, and as you can see players are expecting a detailed explanation on how and why this has happened. There are a number of experienced old-timers and VIPs that are very sharp; they're keen players with high expectations. I don't think this promo is a good way to start the holiday season.
 

mgibson99

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Location
Washington DC
Casino Action said:
The slight clarification of the terms.....
Slight clarification? Are you kidding me? That is an insulting response!

It went from being a prize for the one person who deposits the most money, to a random drawing among all players . Under the "new" rules, someone could deposit $10 and still have a shot against the player who deposits $10,000.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
To the rep & players.

Yes, there was a view that the promotion did not leave small players with a chance; however, this is a legitimate format for a wager challenge, which is exactly what you specialise in with the daily slot wagering tournaments with prizes of $1500 each day. You must realise that offering a 10K variant of this wagering style of tournament would be picked up by your biggest players who would have spent the weekend arranging their strategy and funds in order to participate. Although the terms were changed to make this a normal lucky draw of all participants, NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER was made to inform players who had received the mailer and participated. The front of the message of the day was unchanged, so even at logon there was nothing to indicate that it would now be a lucky draw. Support are still denying that there was a change related to feedback. Could the rep not have actually posted that these changes were being made ahead of making them, and sent out a mailer alerting players to the changes (us high rollers reading this thread would have at least known changes were afoot and would have not continued to scavenge funds for the original tournament format).
The best course of action would have been to accept that this promotion was poorly designed, but as it was under way and some players were in pretty deep, "Live with it", and think of something for the small players in the new year, which could have been a lucky draw, funded by the money from the cancelled Blackjack tournament which leaves you with an unexpected $5000 windfall does it not?

The players most likely to feel cheated in all of this are the high rollers, as they will not be competing head to head as expected, but simply buying draw tickets. Another point, as this has been redesigned for small players, would it not also be fairer to have more prizes, rather than a single big prize. After depositing and wagering the first 10K, and losing over 1K before these changes came into affect, I thank you for the 15 Wheel of Cash I found on my account yesterday.

Lastly, some casino reps tend to "ignore" PM's (often due to them not receiving priority over day to day issues), which may be why players vent steam in the forum. They are not prepard to "sit on ice" while the rep takes 2 to 3 weeks to get around to reviewing and replying. In this case, every day counted, and there was an immediate need for action to clarify this promotion. High rollers could have deposited tens of thousands before hearing back from the rep via PM that it had definitely been changed to a lucky draw after it was all over - their rage would have been far worse!
 

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