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Casinos giving credit out to players? Is it acceptable?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Agamemnon, Mar 22, 2006.

    Mar 22, 2006
  1. Agamemnon

    Agamemnon Dormant account

    Hi All,
    After a long hiatus doing other stuff, I'm back from hibernation and with an interesting question about what might be a well kept secret of the industry (as far as I can tell).
    I'm bringing this up as it ties in with the various calls for regulation (vs banning !) discussions.

    I was talking to a friend of mine that is heavily involved in the industry.
    I will not betray confidences and name the property BUT he admitted that it had been often the case that high rollers have been provided with credit.

    Large credit lines.

    In fact some had trouble repaying. "We never did anything, what is there to do really? And we did get the money eventually" were his words.

    I'm bringing this up is to ask:

    1. How prevalent is this practice among some casinos?
    This property is very well respected and my instinct is that if casinos of their caliber do it, several others do as well.
    As this is often private data, I respect someone not revealing which casino does it (again I won't name the property), but would like to have someone confirm the practice. Maybe some properties are open about it? (I don't know of one, but that doesn't mean anything).
    Perhaps this was done more in the past?
    BTW To play Devil's Advocate to my own post (and convince myself in the process?), why aren't there any horror stories out there (besides those unrelated Costa Rica rogues a while back) about people getting threatened for not paying credit lines back on time?
    I am not a conspiracy fan but I do believe that what I was told is a fact.
    Posts indicating knowledge one way or the other would be appreciated. I'm specifying knowledge vs. indication in order to avoida witch hunt here.


    2. Assuming some casinos do it. How do you feel about it?
    On the one hand land based casinos do offer lines of credit. On the other hand it really isn't the mark of a responsible casino in my books (alowing people to gamble with money they don't have) especialy since several of the safeguards that brick and mortar casinos have in order to avoid abuse -such as credit checks etc- are not standard practice.

    My own first reaction was surprise, and not a favourable reaction.

    Given that the whole past-time is under pressure (HR4777 etc) and should really be self regulating itself, I don't consider such behaviour appropriate.

    Especially as real progress has been made by the raising of standards over the past few years.

    It isn't my intention to create problems for anyone. I don't want to stir a Hornet's nest but I don't think the industry should shy away from hard questions.
    This forum at least never has.



    Just my view.:)
     
  2. Mar 22, 2006
  3. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Like yourself I'm not into nor would I reveal which casino I was able to gain advance credits from. At the time 4 figure amounts were offered, lucky for me my at that stage I'd not lost my sensibility, so putting the stops on at $400 was a sum I could easierly repay the next day. It was a MG casino that now is owned by a group. I doubt they'd let this activety happen now.
     
  4. Mar 22, 2006
  5. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Hi Agamemnon,

    Welcome back.

    Interesting post and observations.

    I'd like to point out that not everything in the industry happens in the casino fora. There is quite a bit that never makes it out there and is kept to private correspondence. This being said, in nearly eight years of running this site, I can't recall any player emailing me freaked about goons trying to make a collection.

    I'm not saying it's never happened, but to my knowledge it's not a common occurrence. The casinos would be risking quite a lot letting some individual located in a foreign land have a line a credit. They would be asking for serious trouble. I don't think any legitimate operator would ever consider doing such a thing.
     
  6. Mar 22, 2006
  7. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    With the current protocols and eCogra now in the mix (speaking only MG terms) I also agree CM. In so far as other casinos I also doubt it too. As far as the dodgy rogues anything is possible.
     
  8. Mar 22, 2006
  9. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    I don't think it's that bad... It's only what the land based casino's do. If casinos want to do this at their own risk, then that's up to them. As Casinomeister points out though - madness if they do, with little back-up, to someone on the other side of the world!!!???

    The flip-side being, 32 RED for example would find me a pretty safe 'bet' for a line of credit... Maybe if they set up some sort of application process? Dunno...

    Actually, thinking about it, I can't see the point of a credit line with an online casino. It makes sense at the land based because you don't want to be carrying money around or whatever, but there's no real point at an online one.

    I agree, it's a stupid idea.

    Way to go from one opinion, completely to the other within one post, Slotster. You've excelled yourself! :eek2:
     
  10. Mar 23, 2006
  11. bb1webs

    bb1webs Webmaster

    Occupation:
    gambling portal webmaster
    Location:
    BondedCasinos.com
    agreed.

    However if I were an unscrupulous operator that had no intention of ever actually paying out any money ... then I'd have no problem whatsoever at giving out credit lines. After all; what have you to lose? Those that pay; great: those that don't ... oh well.


    Something to consider before you go entering into accepting credit.
     
  12. Mar 23, 2006
  13. Reef

    Reef Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    USA
    a good way for a degenerate gambler to ruin his/her life easier or even more. So NO, IMO.
     
  14. Mar 23, 2006
  15. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I can think of a reason: transaction costs. Credit cards, Neteller, etc, all take their cut (up to 8.9% for Instacash). A casino could lend the player, say, $1000 to play with against a suitable security and the casino and player would settle up when the player wants to cash out. Of course, this would require trust on both sides, which seems to lacking in this industry, often with good reason.
     
  16. Mar 23, 2006
  17. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    There was two types of credit I would give out when I was operating a casino. When a KNOWN player was attempting to make a deposit and a credit card was not going through automatically or it was too late for a western union deposit, we would manually credit the account, and run it in the morning. This was done more as a customer service thing than anything else. The main problem with this was that on the credit card transaction you know had someone manually processing it, and there were a number of times a few different people would run the card through out the day to get approval and than the customer would get charged multiple times.
    The second credit I think is what people are really wondering about. At times for larger players 1000+ we would extend credit. In most cases these players always paid back. You must remember in most cases when someone needs credit, they are a degenerate gambler who needs their fix, and the casino is nothing more than the dealer supplying the fix. The player would pay back because they still needed additional fixes and probablly had no place else to turn. In one case there was a player who almost every week would get 10 to 25k in credit and would only repay about half, but when you are running a bussiness you considered it as more of a bonus than credit. This player made actual deposits of over 250k in a year, but owes the casino over 2 million. As the operator we were fine because if the player ever went on a huge run and won, we would make him pay back all of the credit before paying him his winnings. I think that the players here that are educated don't really understand what goes on out there and how diabolical the industry really is. From what I have seen and heard from others in the industry 95% of the profits come from less than 5% of the players, and those are the ones you never here anything about.
    Please don't harp on me about my comments. I am not associated in any way with any on line casino. And I am not saying that everything I saw or did was right or wrong, I am just trying to point out a better understanding to the players here.
     
    3 people like this.
  18. Mar 23, 2006
  19. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    So, other than making chargebacks this is another way to even things up by the players. Casinos really owed players a lot of money. Now some get their own back by not repaying.

    All this aside,however, if a single player can owe one casino over $2 Million through credit this is very, very worrying. The do-gooders will be equipped with more ammo to ban online gambling. If this (lines of credit) become more common the next problem to emerge is what tactics the casinos will resort to getting the debts back and everything will be thrown into disarray.
     
  20. Mar 23, 2006
  21. Agamemnon

    Agamemnon Dormant account

    Actually chuchu my own impression also is that it is becoming less and less common.

    I'd also like to thank phynqster in confiriming my intel and especially the -shocking in my opinion- amounts.
    The amounts I heard were also in this very large range and that eventually payment was made.

    On the quality of operators...
    Well, I'll call a spade a spade and say that as far as I know, no major operator NOW gives out credit. However lets not trivialise this issue. The operator I know of is most definitely considered legitimate.

    Also Bryan, thanks for indicating no stories had leaked out in the past. It was always however a long shot: Players given credit are always well known players and usually highrollers. Their business is so important that casinos did the wrong thing.
    I wasn't implying that there would be a large number of goons out there(just that there might be a story that leaked out and that could confirmed this): Legitimate operators that did this wouldn't employ them and mostly they get paid in the end. Players in such a position -unless threatened- wouldn't have any incentive to show and tell.

    Finally, I'm not laying this whole thing out to damage the Industry.
    It's just that In think that 2 points are worth making:

    A) Has this happened in this past? It seems so and it should be discussed. This in not in the spirit of witch hunting, but simply: Opponents of the Industry can find out facts and will say anything they can against it. Secrets come out:Witness the fact that previous posters thought it would be impossible for a player to owe money to a casino or that only rogue operators could have done this. No and no clearly. If there are little hidden secrets like this ,they will come out and it will only enforce a stereotype that the whole Industry is seedy. Discussing the past and admitting errors that were made shows maturity.

    B)This could lead into a discussion on whether there is room for such a practice in a regulated industry. I might be against it, but so what? Grand Master set out some reasons for it.

    The truth shall set you free. Maybe even set you up for a dream IPO.

    :)

    My own final advice: Don't ask for credit, don't give credit out.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Mar 23, 2006
  23. players

    players Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    nyu
    I think by giving out those credit they want you to come back and play with them and that you didnt forget about them. I get this all the time from alot of casino's and poker rooms. I rather play with the poker room money becuase I have a better chance of winning money out of it. Also I just got a free $1 bill in the mail from empire poker. It better then virtual money.
     
  24. Mar 24, 2006
  25. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA

    Free credits are different from lines of credit. The former are thrown to you and you can cash out after meeting the WRs, if any. You will incur liabilities if you if you lose after using their lines of credit. Furthermore, the freebies are usually very small in amount ranging from $5 to $100. As you can see from phynqster's post, you could incur more than $2 million in debts thru these lines of credit at one casino alone.
     
  26. Mar 24, 2006
  27. sripal32

    sripal32 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Network Engg
    Location:
    UK
    I do not see any difference between, credit card deposit, online check deposit and casino credit.

    With CC, you get the credit instantly and pay it up later in the month.

    With online checks (at most online casinos) you get credit immediately and it takes few days to clear your check.

    With casino credit, you get credit imediately and you payback to casino later.


    only difference can be the amount of credit available, which for a highroller shouldn't be much different in all three cases (i am a low roller, but my cc limit is in 6 figures!)

    my 2 cents!

    cheers!
    sri
     
  28. Mar 24, 2006
  29. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    You are exactly right about that. That is the problem with most deposits. The majority of deposits are still in that "credit" range. I know one of (many) reasons withdrawals were delayed where I was at was that 85% of deposits came from credit cards, which meant chargebacks were higher, and waiting for the card to clear took longer. The strange part about that was that most of the larger depositers refused to use on line banking services and would feel insulted ifyou did not just run their credit card.
     
  30. Mar 25, 2006
  31. aodat2

    aodat2 Senior Member PABnononaccred PABnoaccred2 PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    I have a job
    Location:
    Malaysia
    I totally do not endorse gambling based on CREDIT but if you know how to control yourself and you gamble within your means then it's OK.

    Talking about Credit, here's an interesting story...
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I never had any ONLINE casino telling me that they'd give me credit or something but I know that I have a 6 figure line with MGM, Harrah's and Venetian in Vegas. Never an online casino tho. Never heard of it. Maybe its because I'd rather play in a B&M casino than online. I barely deposit $1000 to casinos online.
     

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