Casinocruise doesn´t pay > 12K

[Journeyman]

i understand that if any rule is violated by him he is responsible for that and besides this i realize i just have read one side of the story for the moment.
but this reminds me about things that still piss me off and in my eyes is very unfair but i will take my words back until we know more. we will see.

 

[Senfpott]

Just another ridicolus excuse to not Pay Big amount. ( If you wining amout was 200-500€ ) then they pay you and dont try find " something " to void winigs

First they say you bet 6.25€ ( max allowed was 5€ ) But you say you bet 6€ After finish wagering so - this excuse not work.

a) they have this in official terms and conditions? ( abaout if player make self exclused in other everymatrix casino then we can void winings )
b) we see in screnshots live chat give informations this is not problem and this is allowed ( somone copy screnshots of live chat conversations in this case)

Secund excuse abaout self exclusion in other everymatrix casino? hm and ? How many casinos is in everymatrix ? A LOT and if player make self exclusion in one of them then cant play in other Matrix net ent ? Come on this is ridicolus excuse to viod payments.

Even if player make self exclusion then dont need add reason of close accont - Self exclusion = close accont and not all self exclusion = gambling problem !

So if player close accont in one of the matrix casino then cant play in other ? Lol So why same player still allowed to open acconts in all other everymatrix casinos and make a lot deposits ..... And after finaly win in one of them caisno say soory you make self exclusion in other everymatrix casino.....so we cant pay you,

Mayby you shood contact official with somone from everymatrix to got official answer how this work in this case ? If im corect understand this issue? In everymatrix site is write - "We have 64 clients," So if somone make self exclusion in one of 64 casinos then cant in same time withdrawal from Any rest brands ? But still without problem can open acconts and make deposits?

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That´s exactly it!

I am playing in onlinecasinos for years now and I know these maxbet restrictions on using bonusses well. So I checked it before betting higher than 5 EUR per spin. I´m sure that I cleared the bonus. But - at this time - i´ve no chance to proof it because they blocked my account instantly after trying to withdraw. We´ll see if I will get some playing audits (is this the right word? Sorry for my bad english). I´ll write an email to them as the support mentioned in the chat. To me it seems petty courious that this bonus-thing was never said before yesterday. Before, they only stick to the self-exclusion on another EM-Casino, which is not mentioned in the T&C´s as a violation...

So far no answer from the Rep.

Should I maybe do a PAB?

Greets Senfpott

 

[Tirilej]

That´s exactly it!

I am playing in onlinecasinos for years now and I know these maxbet restrictions on using bonusses well. So I checked it before betting higher than 5 EUR per spin. I´m sure that I cleared the bonus. But - at this time - i´ve no chance to proof it because they blocked my account instantly after trying to withdraw. We´ll see if I will get some playing audits (is this the right word? Sorry for my bad english). I´ll write an email to them as the support mentioned in the chat. To me it seems petty courious that this bonus-thing was never said before yesterday. Before, they only stick to the self-exclusion on another EM-Casino, which is not mentioned in the T&C´s as a violation...

So far no answer from the Rep.

Should I maybe do a PAB?

Greets Senfpott

Please do. I believe that is the best way to get a fair outcome.
Don't forget to read the rules, and remember that you will not be allowed to post about this issue until the PAB is over.

 

[Tirilej]

My thoughts exactly. It's a win-win situation for the casino and the player is somewhere in the twilight zone. Bah, I just hate reading these types of experiences. Also, the rep here taking 8-9 days to respond to a player's pm doesn't sound too good either.

And now, all of a sudden, this is about max bet size... why then did they insist at first that the OP had self-excluded himself?

Well, let's wait what the rep has to say (if he cares to respond).

Take it a little easy Mouche12.
You wrote this so maybe people think that the rep for Cruise hasn't responded to the OP for 8-9 days, but that was another player.
About this issue the rep maybe don't know it exists yet. He haven't read the thread and it started yesterday.

When he does he needs more information, and if it will be a PAB then we won't get any information until it's finished.

I will give this thread to the rep for Every Matrix too though. They are the ones responsible for what is happening to some players, and something needs to be done to make it all more clear.

Maybe the only way is to stop letting people close their accounts by themselves. If they are forced to send an email, then the casinos should ask the player why he want his account closed if it's unclear from the first email.
That way both the player and the casino would know for sure, and they could give information about other Every Matrix casinos at the same time...If it's a case of self excluding for gambling problems of course.
Otherwise it doesn't matter.

 

[Senfpott]

Thanks to you all!!!!

I just wrote an email to casinocruise. So maybe they do check the case again and send me the gameplay so that I will be able to check this bonus-thing too.
The Rep didn´t answer by now but - tirilej said it - the thread is fresh and I did send him a message yesterday. So let´s give him a little more time.

I´m just reading the FAQ´s to the PAB´s.... Hopefully I will do nothing wrong. If I get no answer from cruisecasino or the Rep I will do the PAB.

I also would like to say "thank you" to Tirilej for giving this to the EM-Rep. Really great!

Greets Senfpott

 

[Tirilej]

Thanks to you all!!!!

I just wrote an email to casinocruise. So maybe they do check the case again and send me the gameplay so that I will be able to check this bonus-thing too.
The Rep didn´t answer by now but - tirilej said it - the thread is fresh and I did send him a message yesterday. So let´s give him a little more time.

I´m just reading the FAQ´s to the PAB´s.... Hopefully I will do nothing wrong. If I get no answer from cruisecasino or the Rep I will do the PAB.

I also would like to say "thank you" to Tirilej for giving this to the EM-Rep. Really great!

Greets Senfpott

Also there is 2 reps for this casino here, but in case you sent a pm to the one that's not so active I also sent one to Lloyd Apter who is their most responsive rep

 

[LloydApter]

Hi KK!

For now the casino rep issues for CasinoCruise.com need to come to me. I will ask CM how we can fix this.

I only know about this thread because Tirilej was kind enough to update me, yet again

I learnt about this issue yesterday as the same player posted on a German language gaming forum and the affiliate/moderator approached me with issue on Skype.

I am now further checking into the issue and will post a reply ASAP. Thanks!

First please send the casino representative a Private Message about your problem by following this link: Link Outdated / Removed

After giving them a reasonable amount of time, if they do not put things right to your satisfaction, you can Pitch-A-Bitch.
This is CasinoMeister's FREE service to help players with problems at non-rogue casinos.

To submit your PAB, click here: Pitch-A-Bitch
Be sure to read ALL the terms for submitting a PAB, including the Frequently Asked Questions here: PAB FAQs


... and welcome to the forum!
KK

 

[Senfpott]

Hi KK!

For now the casino rep issues for CasinoCruise.com need to come to me. I will ask CM how we can fix this.

I only know about this thread because Tirilej was kind enough to update me, yet again

I learnt about this issue yesterday as the same player posted on a German language gaming forum and the affiliate/moderator approached me with issue on Skype.

I am now further checking into the issue now and will post a reply ASAP. Thanks!

Thanks! Now I´m really hopefull to get this thing managed with a fair outcome.

 

[Senfpott]

Pheeew, things are getting more curious....

Just got an email from cruise. This is what I wrote today in the morning:

"Dear Cruise-Team,

I´m writing to you in my case. Since I requested my first withdrawal my account is blocked. In the livechat i´ve been told that this is the case because I self-excluded in another EM-Casino. That´t right maybe. I do selfexclusions in Casinos in which I don´t want to play any longer. Just to prevent a not used account to be hacked or something like that... there are no such things mentioned in your T&C´s that i´m not allowed to play in your casino while being self excluded in other EM-Casinos. so I don´t understand the closing of my account.

Yesterday I talked to support via livechat again. Here I was told that my account balance of over 12K EUR is being confiscated because of breaking T&C´s by breaking the maxbet rule. I know these rules well and I checked the balance before placing higher bets than 5 EUR. The bonus was cleared before.

So, as you can imagine, I´m not pretty happy now. Account is closed, 12K confiscated and I´ve got no chance to check things up. So at first I would like to have a documentation of my gameplay. Is it possible to get this?

The other thing is how this is being handled so far. No official mail, no statemant except chat conversation. I don´t think that this is the right way in a case of conficating 12K EUR.

By now I´m trying to get in contact with your online Rep on casinomeister forums to talk to him in this case. Maybe you see any options which makes both parties happy?!

Sincerely

Senfpott"

And that´s the answer, in german now:

Hallo Senfpott,

Damit Sie Ihre urspruenglichen Einzahlungen wieder zurueckbezahlt bekommen, benoetigen wir folgende Angaben von Ihnen:

-Bank Name
-IBAN
-Swift/BIC

Besten Dank im Voraus fuer Ihre kurze Antwort.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Rachel
CasinoCruise Support
support@casinocruise.com

Rachel asks me for bank details because they want to transfer my deposits back... No single word to my question for gameplays and so on...
How should I handle this? @LloydApter or the others

 

[Journeyman]

indeed not 1 single answer to your questions. so ignorant.

 

[LloydApter]

Thanks! Now I´m really hopefull to get this thing managed with a fair outcome.

Hi Senfpott,

Please be advised that because your wagering amounts breached our bonus terms and conditions (relating to the maximum amount of wager), and because you have excluded yourself from another casino on the EveryMatrix network on which we operate as well (and hence we are required to block you from our casino as well), your winnings were confiscated; naturally, your initial deposit remains yours, of course.

Any further public communication on this matter require your consent to share details relating to yourself and your game play publicly and cannot be disclosed without a waiver on your part.

Please PM me for further details.

Kind regards,
Lloyd

 

[onkel]

Have played on pretty much every EM casino there is, including CasinoCruise, while being self-excluded at a few of them. The same persoanl details have been entered at all of them, so it sure looks like this policy is only applied when it suits them/the withdrawal isn't "huge".

EDIT: If the terms of the bonus were broken, then fair enough. Still doesn't explain why some can and some cannot play when being SE'd at other casinos though, and why this fact only appears in relation to players' withdrawals and not deposits.

 

[LloydApter]

Have played on pretty much every EM casino there is, including CasinoCruise, while being self-excluded at a few of them. The same persoanl details have been entered at all of them, so it sure looks like this policy is only applied when it suits them/the withdrawal isn't "huge".

EDIT: If the terms of the bonus were broken, then fair enough. Still doesn't explain why some can and some cannot play when being SE'd at other casinos though, and why this fact only appears in relation to players' withdrawals and not deposits.

Thanks for your post. The SE relates equally to deposits and winnings, always, as I mentioned. The loophole, is that none of these effected casinos can yet currently prevent you from registering and depositing. However, according to regulations you should neither win nor lose at any of these casinos.

 

[Jory]

Have played on pretty much every EM casino there is, including CasinoCruise, while being self-excluded at a few of them. The same persoanl details have been entered at all of them, so it sure looks like this policy is only applied when it suits them/the withdrawal isn't "huge".

I contacted them to ask why I was told by Live Chat that I was still allowed to play at Casino Cruise even while excluded from another EM casino.

They told me that they have just changed their policy so that anyone who made an account after 6th of April 2015 will not be paid if they win and have their deposits refunded.

My account was not blocked or closed after this policy change and I could still log in today. They say accounts will only be closed once you request a withdrawal and EM verifies your documents. As I deposited before 6th April I am not entitled to have it refunded, this only applies for deposits made after 6th April.

This means there will be many active players at Casino Cruise who will not be paid if they win as this policy was only introduced and there is no system in place to close accounts or block customers from signing up in the first place. This only happens during verification. Customers who deposit and play and never actually manage a withdrawal will move on to another casino and never know that they never stood a chance of winning or that they are even entitled to have their deposits refunded.

 

[Tirilej]

I contacted them to ask why I was told by Live Chat that I was still allowed to play at Casino Cruise even while excluded from another EM casino.

They told me that they have just changed their policy so that anyone who made an account after 6th of April 2015 will not be paid if they win and have their deposits refunded.

My account was not blocked or closed after this policy change and I could still log in today. They say accounts will only be closed once you request a withdrawal and EM verifies your documents. As I deposited before 6th April I am not entitled to have it refunded, this only applies for deposits made after 6th April.

This means there will be many active players at Casino Cruise who will not be paid if they win as this policy was only introduced and there is no system in place to close accounts or block customers from signing up in the first place. This only happens during verification. Customers who deposit and play and never actually manage a withdrawal will move on to another casino and never know that they never stood a chance of winning or that they are even entitled to have their deposits refunded.

Change of a policy? It's a matter of rules when it comes to their liscence and nothing else.
So Every Matrix have just change their rules and everyone casino has to follow them?

I haven't excluded myself from any of their casinos but I start to get scared of playing any of them anyway.

 

[Senfpott]

I´m now in contact with LloydApter via pm and asked him for the gamelogs so that I will be able to check if I really did this overbetting. Can´t believe it by now.

The Selfexclusion-problem makes me think about ending to play online overall. I did many selfexclusions on various casinos and networks. So every deposit in the future seems to be a risky thing....

Sad story...

EDIT:
Just wrote this while the next Email from cruise came in:

"Dear XXXXX,

I hope this email finds you well.

I regret to inform you that your winning has been removed, due to a breach of the bonus Terms and Conditions during your game play.

You placed bets of 6 EUR which is not allowed when playing with a bonus. I invite you to read our bonus terms and condition on our website.

Your initial 100 EUR deposit has been returned to your gaming account.

In the future we strongly recommend to read the Terms and Conditions.

Feel free to contact us at any time for any question that you might have.
Our Casino Hosts will be more than glad to assist.

We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Sara
Casino Hostess
CasinoCruise Support
support@casinocruise.com"

Can´t find any words for that. Again not a single word to the gamelogs....

 

[FavoPlayer]

I contacted them to ask why I was told by Live Chat that I was still allowed to play at Casino Cruise even while excluded from another EM casino.

They told me that they have just changed their policy so that anyone who made an account after 6th of April 2015 will not be paid if they win and have their deposits refunded.

Well I had an account with them since they had opened casino. And now I had logged to casino and what I see:

I didn't saw a pop-up when I had logged into casino that they had made changes to T&C and I need to accept them;
No internal message that they had changed T&C;
No email I had received from them since they had made changes.

So I had now also checked GENERAL T&C and there are no changes since March:

"GENERAL
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
Version Number 1.9, Last Updated 13th March, 2015

1.4. The Terms will come into effect on the 16th of March 2015"

Also no changes in Casino Terms:

"The Terms will come into effect on the 16th of June 2010."

If OP didn't had failed with max bet, so this will be case for sure, as casino didn't provided nor informed all customers about changes in casino T&C.

Also for me is A BIG question regarding EveryMatrix "new rule" for not paying if client had closed an account in other EveryMatrix casino.
Guts, Thrills, and other EveryMatrix casinos also had already applied this "new rule"?!

 

[Senfpott]

Also for me is A BIG question regarding EveryMatrix "new rule" for not paying if client had closed an account in other EveryMatrix casino.
Guts, Thrills, and other EveryMatrix casinos also had already applied this "new rule"?!

I don´t think the casino´s can decide if they will apply or not. EM says "that´s it" and the casinos have to stick to the new rule.

 

[Jory]

Change of a policy? It's a matter of rules when it comes to their liscence and nothing else.
So Every Matrix have just change their rules and everyone casino has to follow them?

I haven't excluded myself from any of their casinos but I start to get scared of playing any of them anyway.

The best a player can do is contact the casino and ask if they are actually allowed to play there. If they say yes, then it means nothing as they can simply change this and not inform the player or even close their account. They continue to accept deposits and if a player never manages a withdrawal, they keep the deposits. Only if a player wins do they then decide not to pay and return the deposit.

I agree with the scary feeling and its why I contacted them to be 100% sure I could play there in the first place. A screenshot of my last chat shows this is no longer the case.

 

[Senfpott]

Really scary! Maybe there are thousands of players depositing by now and they will never see any winnings.....

Everybody should read this!

 

[refre]

This is all very disturbing.

I'm glad I never self excluded or 'took a break' from any casino before.

It seems the rules were not made with white labels in mind.

This needs to be picked up on at registration, not when EM security verifies documents.
Which may never happen, if the player never withdraws...

I agree to the casino's terms when signing up.
They may not outline the self exclusion policy and/or describe the relationship between the site (brand) and EM.

Still I'm bound by some merchant agreement between them?

The consequence of self exluding or taking a break from a white label needs to be clearly communicated!


Freddy

 

[Finn]

Also for me is A BIG question regarding EveryMatrix "new rule" for not paying if client had closed an account in other EveryMatrix casino.
Guts, Thrills, and other EveryMatrix casinos also had already applied this "new rule"?!

I don't think this applies to Guts and Thrills/Superlenny, they don't use EveryMatrix white label license, they are just software clients.

Most EveryMatrix software client casinos use the EveryMatrix white label Malta licenses, it's not the EveryMatrix rules but Malta Gambling Authority rules that make the self-exclusion license based rather than website based, if EveryMatrix did not comply with that, they would risk losing their white label license.

Like I said, Guts and Thrills/Superlenny do not the EveryMatrix white label license.

You can recognize Everymatrix white label casinos from them having the same license number, same company number, same street address, etc, on their web page like this.

The website is operated and managed by EveryMatrix Ltd, a company bearing registration number C44411, and having its registered address at Suite 4, Num. 62/63 Morina Court, George Borg Olivier Street, St.Julians, STJ 1081, Malta. EveryMatrix Ltd. is licensed and regulated in virtue of a Class 1 license numbered LGA/CL1/497/2010 and Class 2 license numbered LGA/CL2/497/2008 issued by the Lotteries and Gaming Authority of Malta. (www.lga.org.mt)

The most important is the license numbers, look for the number 497. That is part of all three EveryMatrix white label licenses.


LGA/CL1/497/2010

LGA/CL2/497/2008

LGA/CL4/497/2011


Guts don't use any of those license.

Neither does Thrills/Superlenny.

 

[refre]

Of course these are MGA rules and policy; no one's doubting that.

The average player does not know anything about licensing though, let alone lincense numbers.

They just know they had bad run, and they want a break.
Which translates into self excluding, as you can not 'close' an account for a set time.

They agree they will not try and play or set up new accounts at that particular casino.

And suddenly they may find themselves barred from up to 64 other casinos.
And it may not be discovered until they cash out, if ever.
They may be waiting for nice withdrawal, or have a large amount in one of your other accounts.
What happens then?

Seems like a win-win situation - winnings confiscated and deposits kept...
Who's gonna take responsibility?



Freddy

 

[cncas123]

Of course these are MGA rules and policy; no one's doubting that.

The average player does not know anything about licensing though, let alone lincense numbers.

They just know they had bad run, and they want a break.
Which translates into self excluding, as you can not 'close' an account for a set time.

They agree they will not try and play or set up new accounts at that particular casino.

And suddenly they may find themselves barred from up to 64 other casinos.
And it may not be discovered until they cash out, if ever.
They may be waiting for nice withdrawal, or have a large amount in one of your other accounts.
What happens then?

Seems like a win-win situation - winnings confiscated and deposits kept...
Who's gonna take responsibility?



Freddy

The only way this can be avoided is by making sure that anyone who has closed an account on the same platform is automatically prevented from signing up to another casino sharing the platform, that way the player will know he isnt welcome to play there and it will save a lot of anger and frustration at a later stage.

 

[paul7388]

I have never understood why people keep self excluding from casinos. But each to their own. Anyway before a player self excludes it should be their responsibility to check with the casino exactly what it means and how it affects them at other casinos.

But anyway back to Casino Cruise. Reading their self exclusion policy it does not actually state that if you self exclude from them that you are excluded from playing elsewhere. Or if you have excluded elsewhere that you cant play there. It merely states

"29.3 Self-exclusion - Should you need to take a break from gambling, we provide a self-exclusion facility which can be activated by the customer within 'My Account' or by contacting Support. Self-exclusion means that your account will remain closed for a minimum period of 6 months and will not be reactivated under any circumstances during the exclusion period. This is the major difference to a standard account closure request. Your account will remain closed at the end of the self-exclusion period unless you take positive action to resume gaming. Should you wish to activate permanent self-exclusion you may do so by contacting Support at support@casinocruise.com stating your reasons and you will be permanently blocked with immediate effect.



We also allow customers to block access to individual products by contacting Support. If you are considering self-exclusion, please remember to contact all gambling companies with whom you have accounts and ask to self-exclude with them too.



We will use our reasonable endeavours to ensure compliance with your self-exclusion. However you accept that we have no responsibility or liability whatsoever if you continue gambling and/or seek to use the Website and we fail to recognise or determine that. We also recommend that consideration is given to the installation of software that will allow you to block access to internet gambling websites. See Filtering Systems at the bottom of this page"

As you can see it states nowhere that you will automatically be excluded elsewhere.