PAB in progress Casino heroes - withdrawal confiscated

[juusohalonen]

Good evening!

I would like to ask other people if they have encountered such a problem before. So, on February 2, 2024, I made probably 8 casino deposits on different platforms, and one of them was Casino Heroes. I managed to withdraw €2925.09 from there, after which the casino began requesting documents. Even though my account was verified, a few days later, they asked for a bank statement, which I also provided. It took 10 days until I received an email referring to terms and conditions, mentioning phrases like "illegal activities, personal entertainment," and the worst part was that my winnings were confiscated. No further explanations were provided, nor any answers. I have contacted MGA and eCOGRA, and now I am here on this forum seeking information on whom to contact and what others would do in this situation. I have also sent my salary slips, and on the same day, I sold my valuable watch, which I used to play at the casino. But these reasons cannot justify the confiscation of the casino winnings, can they?

- J

 

[chiya]

I'm gonna assume that they wanted to SoW you to see how you fund deposits and when it turns out someone else transferred money to you, to fund said deposits, it could be seen as colluding with another player or something.

I don't really understand the T&C jungle so it's hard to say if it's justified or not but personal opinion of course is .. What the actual fuck? I'd be malding over this. If I sell my physical goods, why does the casino get to decide how I use said money?

In any case I would've advised you to submit a PAB, far more likely to lead to anywhere than complaining directly to MGA/eCOGRA in my experience. But now that you've done so I'm not sure you CAN still PAB... @maxd may need to shed more light on that.

I should add that I often play with a friend of mine. We each put in an X amount, play games together and then split winnings. Ofc we're playing from a single person's account. Point being, my bank slip would also show a +money deposit from said friend. I cannot even fathom how that could be grounds for confiscating winnings.

 

[juusohalonen]

Yes, i agree with you.

Funny thing here, i complained directly MGA & eCOGRA, and this was the answers:

 

[juusohalonen]

I'm gonna assume that they wanted to SoW you to see how you fund deposits and when it turns out someone else transferred money to you, to fund said deposits, it could be seen as colluding with another player or something.

I don't really understand the T&C jungle so it's hard to say if it's justified or not but personal opinion of course is .. What the actual fuck? I'd be malding over this. If I sell my physical goods, why does the casino get to decide how I use said money?

In any case I would've advised you to submit a PAB, far more likely to lead to anywhere than complaining directly to MGA/eCOGRA in my experience. But now that you've done so I'm not sure you CAN still PAB... @maxd may need to shed more light on that.

I should add that I often play with a friend of mine. We each put in an X amount, play games together and then split winnings. Ofc we're playing from a single person's account. Point being, my bank slip would also show a +money deposit from said friend. I cannot even fathom how that could be grounds for confiscating winnings.

And also yeah, we have sometimes that example 3 friends put X amount, and play together. But this was not the case here, which is weird. Also i sent sales contract for my ex watch to casino heroes, but it seems that it wasnt enough. Not sure who i should contact now..

 

[juusohalonen]

Newest email from casino heroes support.

 

[jasonuk]

In the first instance we would recommend the rep - but they haven't been seen in 5 1/2 years, and the casino was removed from Accreditation in 2021.

In the usual MGA path, after they have issued their final decision (which is what your latest post suggests), then they should be directing you to ADR if you are not happy with that decision.

The problem is, there seems to be some ambiguity here:

• The MGA confirms that they have a license -
  You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
  shows this. Similarly the MGA and their register show eCOGRA as the ADR, but eCOGRA disagree and say they are not "formally approved" - that is to say their ADR fees have ended, despite ADR being a mandatory requirement of their license.
• Additionally, their website barely mentions that MGA license - I found it mentioned once in the FAQ - and instead references a Kahnawake Gaming Commission licence, for a company based in the British Virgin Islands (1.3), and the contract is governed by Curacao (17.1).

1.3. About us. Techno Offshore Ltd is incorporated in the British Virgin Islands with registration number 2108018 with its registered address at Sixth Floor Water’s Edge Building 1, Wickham’s Cay II, Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands and holds a Client Provider Authorisation from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (‘KGC’) with number 00915.

1.4. Getaway Limited acts as a payment agent for Techno Offshore Limited, facilitating and processing payments on behalf of the company. Getaway Limited is a company registered under the laws of Gibraltar with company number 119992. Techno Offshore Limited's registered address is situated at Suite 3 Second Floor Icom House, 1/5 Irish Town, Gibraltar GX11 1AA, Gibraltar.

So we have a company that holds an MGA license, but may not be operating under that license (none of the three domains mentioned in that license do). The affiliates - naturally - are heavily leaning on that MGA status, but it means diddly squat if they're not operating under it... as unfortunately you are discovering.

As chiya mentions above, PAB is an option - and hopefully @maxd will be able to help. I would also suggest the review needs an update (and possibly a demotion from the grey zone) if it turns out they are being deceptive about their licensing behaviour.


See Related:
Our review of Grey Zone Frank Casino is here

 

[chiya]

If you do submit a PAB, make sure you read the rules surrounding that service carefully.

If you truly have done nothing wrong there's I'd say a good chance maxd can indeed help you. They've done a tremendous amount of great work over the years with the PABs. Unless of course, the casino chooses the "Talk to the hand" method. Only one way to find out in any case.

 

[juusohalonen]

If you do submit a PAB, make sure you read the rules surrounding that service carefully.

If you truly have done nothing wrong there's I'd say a good chance maxd can indeed help you. They've done a tremendous amount of great work over the years with the PABs. Unless of course, the casino chooses the "Talk to the hand" method. Only one way to find out in any case.

Thanks, i've made a PAB about day ago.

Lets see hows it goes. Im new here so im little bit confused from all of this

 

[juusohalonen]

In the first instance we would recommend the rep - but they haven't been seen in 5 1/2 years, and the casino was removed from Accreditation in 2021.

In the usual MGA path, after they have issued their final decision (which is what your latest post suggests), then they should be directing you to ADR if you are not happy with that decision.

The problem is, there seems to be some ambiguity here:

• The MGA confirms that they have a license -
  You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
  shows this. Similarly the MGA and their register show eCOGRA as the ADR, but eCOGRA disagree and say they are not "formally approved" - that is to say their ADR fees have ended, despite ADR being a mandatory requirement of their license.
• Additionally, their website barely mentions that MGA license - I found it mentioned once in the FAQ - and instead references a Kahnawake Gaming Commission licence, for a company based in the British Virgin Islands (1.3), and the contract is governed by Curacao (17.1).

So we have a company that holds an MGA license, but may not be operating under that license (none of the three domains mentioned in that license do). The affiliates - naturally - are heavily leaning on that MGA status, but it means diddly squat if they're not operating under it... as unfortunately you are discovering.

As chiya mentions above, PAB is an option - and hopefully @maxd will be able to help. I would also suggest the review needs an update (and possibly a demotion from the grey zone) if it turns out they are being deceptive about their licensing behaviour.

Thanks for the good information.

Seems like a mess, but where and who i should contact next, if eCOGRA and MGA wasn't ready for help? PAB is done also, i count on that.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

Juusohalen. Follow the PAB rules and stop posting until the PAB is dealt with.

 

[bamberfishcake]

@juusohalonen the Casino Heroes Group has moved from MGA to operating under Kahnawake licencing.

 

[juusohalonen]

@juusohalonen the Casino Heroes Group has moved from MGA to operating under Kahnawake licencing.

Didnt surprise, but how their site still showing "MGA"? its crazy

 

[jasonuk]

@juusohalonen the Casino Heroes Group has moved from MGA to operating under Kahnawake licencing.

That is really concerning then - given a quick search shows plenty of affiliates still promoting them as MGA-licensed... which means nothing if they aren't operating under said licence, and are potentially in breach of said licence anyway by not offering an ADR.

Technically correct - but the worst kind because when something goes wrong, instead of challenging an MGA-licensed casino via ADR, they're challenging a BVI-based casino via Curacao.

Thanks for the good information.

Seems like a mess, but where and who i should contact next, if eCOGRA and MGA wasn't ready for help? PAB is done also, i count on that.

Once you've submitted the PAB, one of the rules is you need to stop posting about the topic and let the PAB team get on with it. As others have already mentioned, please ensure you abide by the rules of the PAB otherwise it may be rejected.

 

[anddi32]

Hero Gaming's MGA-license is still active

That's weird because T&C:
1.3. About us. Hero Gaming Ltd is incorporated in the British Virgin Islands with registration number 2108018 with its registered address at Sixth Floor Water’s Edge Building 1, Wickham’s Cay II, Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands and holds a Client Provider Authorisation from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (‘KGC’) with number 00915.

The discrepancy can be found at the bottom of the page, where the address is Malta and the license is MGA

Hero Gaming, 26 The Forum Office, Triq L-Uqija, Ibragg, SWQ2335, Malta

Casino Heroes lla on maltalainen pelilupa, joka on arpapeli ja uhkapeliviranomaisen MGA (Malta Gaming Authority) myöntämä. Se toimii lisenssinumerolla MGA/CRP/253/2013, myönnetty 23. toukokuuta 2019

 

[jasonuk]

Thanks for the information, I found the references to Hero Gaming Ltd in the T&Cs if I use Suomi/Finnish - but I'm not seeing the licensing footer at all so I would guess that's geoblocked to Finnish IP addresses (which I can't check).

I could find it on another of their properties, the "about us" for Simple Casino mentions Hero Gaming Limited and MGA/CRP/253/2013 for the Finnish page, but Techno Offshore Limited / KGC for the English page. However both versions of the T&Cs mention the same BVI office, with jurisdiction in Curacao - so something isn't adding up.

[en] 1.3. About us. Techno Offshore Ltd is incorporated in the British Virgin Islands with registration number 2108018 with its registered address at Sixth Floor Water’s Edge Building 1, Wickham’s Cay II, Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands and holds a Client Provider Authorisation from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (‘KGC’) with number 00915.

17.1. These Terms and Conditions shall be governed by the Laws of Curacao. The parties agree that any dispute, controversy or claim arising out of or in connection with these Terms and Conditions, or the breach, termination or invalidity thereof, shall be submitted to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Courts of Curacao.

[fi] 1.3. About us. Hero Gaming Ltd is incorporated in the British Virgin Islands with registration number 2108018 with its registered address at Sixth Floor Water’s Edge Building 1, Wickham’s Cay II, Road Town, Tortola, British Virgin Islands and holds a Client Provider Authorisation from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (‘KGC’) with number 00915.

17.1. These Terms and Conditions shall be governed by the Laws of Curacao. The parties agree that any dispute, controversy or claim arising out of or in connection with these Terms and Conditions, or the breach, termination or invalidity thereof, shall be submitted to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Courts of Curacao.

While I hope Max can get to the bottom of it for the OP via PAB, it feels like there's a number of other unanswered questions here - particularly what (if any) transactions are actually under MGA jurisdiction, and who their ADR is for MGA complaints since it's not eCOGRA.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Seems they have not got around to updating the sites.

When you click the MGA logo at Casino Heroes, it takes you to Kahnawake

CasinoSky and ParadisPlay are under Costa Rica now.

p.s. Personally, I would rather have the backing of Kahnawake than the MGA when it comes to complaints. Kahnawake doesn't mess about I hear, and take action, whereas the MGA, not so much.

 

[GourdFollower]

Hello @juusohalonen,

We see that you have created this thread and been posting here after you submitted your PAB.

As you'll know from having read the Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures (which you confirmed when submitting), that effectively terminates the PAB process. So we'll be closing your PAB accordingly.

If this is not what you wanted, please return to your PAB ticket and explain.

Regards,
GourdFollower
Assistant to Max Drayman, Player Arbitration (PAB) Manager, Casinomeister.com

 

[chiya]

And there it is. Unless you flat out tell people to not post, they will keep posting.. because imagine reading the rules of a service you're attempting to use, right? Looks like CasinoHeroes is gonna walk away victorious this time..

 

[juusohalonen]

Hello @juusohalonen,

We see that you have created this thread and been posting here after you submitted your PAB.

As you'll know from having read the Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures (which you confirmed when submitting), that effectively terminates the PAB process. So we'll be closing your PAB accordingly.

If this is not what you wanted, please return to your PAB ticket and explain.

Regards,
GourdFollower
Assistant to Max Drayman, Player Arbitration (PAB) Manager, Casinomeister.com

Damn, what i will do now? Should i delete this post and make PAB again or? Im so new on these things, and need help badly.

 

[juusohalonen]

That is really concerning then - given a quick search shows plenty of affiliates still promoting them as MGA-licensed... which means nothing if they aren't operating under said licence, and are potentially in breach of said licence anyway by not offering an ADR.

Technically correct - but the worst kind because when something goes wrong, instead of challenging an MGA-licensed casino via ADR, they're challenging a BVI-based casino via Curacao.


Once you've submitted the PAB, one of the rules is you need to stop posting about the topic and let the PAB team get on with it. As others have already mentioned, please ensure you abide by the rules of the PAB otherwise it may be rejected.

Seems like this happened now, so do i make new PAB and not post again? Sadly i didnt know this..

 

[johnnymcc1966]

Juusohalen. Follow the PAB rules and stop posting until the PAB is dealt with.

That is really concerning then - given a quick search shows plenty of affiliates still promoting them as MGA-licensed... which means nothing if they aren't operating under said licence, and are potentially in breach of said licence anyway by not offering an ADR.

Technically correct - but the worst kind because when something goes wrong, instead of challenging an MGA-licensed casino via ADR, they're challenging a BVI-based casino via Curacao.


Once you've submitted the PAB, one of the rules is you need to stop posting about the topic and let the PAB team get on with it. As others have already mentioned, please ensure you abide by the rules of the PAB otherwise it may be rejected.

I think you had enough warning here.

 

[jasonuk]

You wouldn't be allowed to make a second PAB on the same topic, so you need to ensure the first isn't rejected.

So:
1) go back and read the PAB rules - particularly on posting.
2) once you've understood, reply to Gourd via the private PAB messages and indicate that you have re-read the rules, are sorry for the mistake, and wish to continue the PAB
3) if they are willing to continue, ensure that you abide by the PAB rules - because a second breach of the rules will inevitably be seen as a withdrawal from the process and your PAB will be cancelled.

Remember this is a free-to-use (but not free-to-operate) service, so the rules are in place to keep things smooth for both sides - operators are understandably less willing to discuss situations when the counterparty is trying - even unintentionally - to run a trial by social media at the same time (which they cannot respond to publicly, because they'll similarly abide by the PAB rules, and also corporate policy / data protection).

You don't need to reply to this thread again until either a) the PAB is concluded - whether in your favour, against you, or as a "no can do", b) you decide to withdraw from the process.

For clarity, other members of the community are still free to discuss the topic (although the mods may temporarily lock the thread if required) - but you as the PAB submitter must follow the rules. If in doubt, ask via the PAB messages.

 

[jasonuk]

p.s. Personally, I would rather have the backing of Kahnawake than the MGA when it comes to complaints. Kahnawake doesn't mess about I hear, and take action, whereas the MGA, not so much.

Probably a discussion for another thread, but worth pointing out that even if the KGC was better than the MGA in terms of ADR (and you may well be right there), you lose subsequent rights because you would struggle to take a BVI-based casino to court. There's a clear breakdown of trust if you sign up to an "MGA-licensed casino", but are actually playing on a KGC-licensed one.

They do, helpfully, publish the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, 429 doesn't seem a particularly high number though - and only 24% were found partially or fully in favour of the player.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Probably a discussion for another thread, but worth pointing out that even if the KGC was better than the MGA in terms of ADR (and you may well be right there), you lose subsequent rights because you would struggle to take a BVI-based casino to court. There's a clear breakdown of trust if you sign up to an "MGA-licensed casino", but are actually playing on a KGC-licensed one.

They do, helpfully, publish the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, 429 doesn't seem a particularly high number though - and only 24% were found partially or fully in favour of the player.

Not a bad figure for roughly 250 sites, which makes the 24% in favour swayed by, give or take, a few either way. Plus if you run a tight ship there will be less cause for complaint

But yeah, not great having an MGA logo when under a different rule. Not checked back, perhaps it's changed now.

 

[maxd]

1) go back and read the PAB rules - particularly on posting.
2) once you've understood, reply to Gourd via the private PAB messages and indicate that you have re-read the rules, are sorry for the mistake, and wish to continue the PAB
3) if they are willing to continue, ensure that you abide by the PAB rules - because a second breach of the rules will inevitably be seen as a withdrawal from the process and your PAB will be cancelled.

@juusohalonen , this is excellent and 100% accurate advice. Please follow it.
One minor correction: "reply to Gourd via the private PAB messages" should read "reply in your Ticket or to GourdFollower via Private Message".

- Max

LATER: Ah, I see that you now have done the necessary. Very well, PAB is back on and in progress.