Casino.com requesting notarised documents to be sent to Philippines

[P.V.]

now Circus casino (another playtech) are asking to send the physical documents to Philippines. Just for 300 euro win. The arguments about this kind of shipment is not secure are not accepted- management insisting that this is the only way to get paid.

They list on their website the following: docs@ xxxxxxcasino.com (A dedicated e-mail address if ever you need to provide any documents to us)
I'm not sure why they would want them sent by mail, maybe they figured out that email isn't secure and by adding the word "dedicated" doesn't make it secure either! Mail is worse.

I asked them what happens if documents are lost on the way and somebody will use my identity to make me harm. I also asked them about where my notarized docs will be stored and who will have an access to them...The stupid support guy (I am sorry to say that- but most of the support staff at the casinos make an impression of stupid persons-just because they don't have any decision-making rights- they act like kinda parrots saying the same meaningless phrases and words over and over again) so he told me that management decided that I need to send notarized docs and no other way out. Are 300 euro worthy of much bigger troubles in the future? Don't think so. Playtech should stop behaving like that! When we deposit at those casinos- we don't have any intention to send our documents over the several oceans to the unknown place!

I support what you're saying hakapuku.

 

[maxd]

With people being poor, they can be bought, and if it comes to a choice between being able to feed their children, or keeping the package from one of the "rich" nations secure, which will some choose.

No offense VWM but do you have any idea how arrogant and superior that sounds, not to mention racist and classist? Because people are poor they are easily "bought"?

Yeesh, why don't you just say "you can't trust those little brown people y'know"? Pretty much sounds like what you are saying.

I'm not suggesting I'll be shipping my private info off to the Philippines any time soon but that's got everything to do with the reputation for piss poor security and low respect for privacy of information and nothing to do with the average Filipino's income and assumptions about their moral character based how "poor" they are.

Frankly I'd be more likely to trust your average Filipino, poor or otherwise, than a Western banker, or stock broker, or oil executive, or .... People with money and in positions of power prove every day that we have plenty of reasons to mistrust their moral character, infinitely more so than "the poor".

 

[takethemoney]

There are a couple bright spots to come from the Philippines lately: Charice Pempengo and Arnel Pineda, both excellent entertainers. Arnel is the lead singer for the iconic American Band, Journey.

 

[P.V.]

No offense VWM but do you have any idea how arrogant and superior that sounds, not to mention racist and classist? Because people are poor they are easily "bought"?

Yeesh, why don't you just say "you can't trust those little brown people y'know"? Pretty much sounds like what you are saying.

I'm not suggesting I'll be shipping my private info off to the Philippines any time soon but that's got everything to do with the reputation for piss poor security and low respect for privacy of information and nothing to do with the average Filipino's income and assumptions about their moral character based how "poor" they are.

Frankly I'd be more likely to trust your average Filipino, poor or otherwise, than a Western banker, or stock broker, or oil executive, or .... People with money and in positions of power prove every day that we have plenty of reasons to mistrust their moral character, infinitely more so than "the poor".

I personally don't think that vinyl weatherman was being racist as Max has interrupted. He said nothing about little "little brown people" as implied. It's a proven fact that poor area's in gage in fraud more so than others and this is how I read VM's post and this should be a concern for all online gamers plain and simple.


You can read into this thread as much as you want but the fact still remains that some areas of the word are not as secure or financially stable as others and that's what VM was pointing out IMP. He appears to be the one supporter of Player Security on this site and is on track.


Look at the data:

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It's not up to date but do you think it's better now? I guess not.
Max, I trade stocks all the time and I'm a westerner so what are you saying here, your post is confusing to say the least? You don't trust me? Not trying to stir up a worm hole here but what's going on with the replies and accusations?


I'm confused but maybe it's the norm around here, not sure? Again, not trying to stir up trouble but didn't SEE a thing wrong with VM.

 

[maxd]

Max, I trade stocks all the time and I'm a westerner so what are you saying here, your post is confusing to say the least? You don't trust me?

My point was that if you want to look at people who rip off other people's identities then looking at low wage earning Filipinos is the wrong place. Try the white-collar, tech-savvy crowd if you want to see identity theft that you really need to worry about. Poor Filipinos are not the enemy. The poor seldom are.

As to who do you trust I'd say if you stacked up the fraud and theft of the poor against the fraud and theft of the rich you'd see that the poor are certainly no worse and operate on a minuscule scale compared to the wealthy.

How many crimes of the poor does it take to equal one Bernie Madoff? Millions I reckon, at least. In my experience and observation the rich and privileged are by far the bigger crooks, certainly dollar for dollar they are the ones to worry about. Culturally we seem to give a pass to those who commit 'crimes of greed' and stomp all over those who commit 'crimes of need'. I think the greedy are equally, if not more, deserving of our rebuke and mistrust.

To suggest that because the Philippines has poor people your data is not safe there is cultural stereotyping and classist prejudice on a pretty spectacular scale, IMO. I'm not suggesting your data is necessarily safe there, or anywhere for that matter, but the problem is most certainly not that the Filipino people have lower average relative incomes.

I'm not trying to give VWM a hard time here, but I think he 'mis-spoke' and felt the need to provide some perspective.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've been to the Playtech offices in Manila - and they're quite nice, but Manila sucks. It's like Tijuana on steroids.

If you feel apprehensive sending your ID docs to Manila, ask the casino if these can't be sent to Mansion Affiliates in Gibraltar.
here's their (Mansion Affiliates) number +350 200 79991

 

[vinylweatherman]

No offense VWM but do you have any idea how arrogant and superior that sounds, not to mention racist and classist? Because people are poor they are easily "bought"?

Yeesh, why don't you just say "you can't trust those little brown people y'know"? Pretty much sounds like what you are saying.

I'm not suggesting I'll be shipping my private info off to the Philippines any time soon but that's got everything to do with the reputation for piss poor security and low respect for privacy of information and nothing to do with the average Filipino's income and assumptions about their moral character based how "poor" they are.

Frankly I'd be more likely to trust your average Filipino, poor or otherwise, than a Western banker, or stock broker, or oil executive, or .... People with money and in positions of power prove every day that we have plenty of reasons to mistrust their moral character, infinitely more so than "the poor".

It may sound arrogant and superior, but players are not even being given a choice, they are being FORCED to POST their documents through the postal systems of the Philipines. Not ALL poor people can be bought, but just as some rich bankers and oil execs can be bought, so can some of the poor. Criminals only need find one or two "insiders" that can be bought. This happens even here in the UK, BUT it is harder to get away with it because security is tighter, and law enfocement more able to deal with the problem. Also, the VICTIMS of the crime have more "rights" under the law than they would have if the information was stolen in the Philipines.

Just imagine a player from the UK trying to repair the damage. They would be told "you did WHAT" when they revealed to government officials that they sent notarised copies of their passport and supporting ID through the post to the Philipines.
Unlike domestic post, you CANNOT send items by "secure delivery" to some other countries, since the security part ends once the package reaches that country, and it is then vulnerable in it's passage to it's destination.

In this case, WHY are players being told to send the documents to the Philipines when the casino is licensed in GIBRALTAR, and displays a postal address for receiving documents in GIBRALTAR.

Even the UK government will no longer send passports to DOMESTIC addresses through the post, they employ special couriers, vetted (they hope) to a higher degree than postal workers, and in particular agency postal workers.

If YOU would not be happy sending such documents to the Philipines, why the hell should it be OK for a casino to expect this of players, and make it compulsory for some.

This casino is sister to Mansion, and there is NOTHING in the terms to suggest that your personal data ever leaves Gibraltar.

Worse than this, they flatly refuse to tell players who ask what their privacy policies are, this is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I've been to the Playtech offices in Manila - and they're quite nice, but Manila sucks. It's like Tijuana on steroids.

If you feel apprehensive sending your ID docs to Manila, ask the casino if these can't be sent to Mansion Affiliates in Gibraltar.
here's their (Mansion Affiliates) number +350 200 79991

I think these players already asked this, and it was refused, they were told they had to send them to the Philipines instead.

The offices may be nice, but how secure is the route of transmission?

The tech savvy are the ones that actually do the fraud, but they need the basic data, and THIS is where vulnerable or greedy people come in.

Despite what Max says about stereotyping, Neteller "stereotype" the Philipines as well as "too insecure", and will not accept customers from there. Many casinos have these blacklists of countries, and almost ALL are these "poor" countries, and casinos say these lists are based on EXPERIENCE rather than prejudice.

If Neteller and casinos "blacklist" the Philipines, this sends a message to players that the problems there are enough to ditch the entire country, rather than deal with each customer on merit. Players then worry about the safety of information they send there.

Because of rampant ID fraud, it is now "big news", and citizens are being bombarded with cautions about how they care for personal data. These cautions have made people that much more careful, and they understand the risk factors more, and this is why there is such negativity about places such as the Philipines.

Another factor in play is that the poor in these countries have few, if any, legal rights, making it easy to bully them into "selling out", despite their moral standing. Here, the poor exist, but they have many rights, and attempts to bully them usually backfire, and it is the bully that often finds themselves in front of a tribunal, small claims court, etc.

When the rich get greedy, such as in the Madoff case, they prey on the greed of others. These others have a choice, give in to greed, or see that what is on offer is far too good to be true, and walk away. These players CANNOT walk away and take their money with them, because their money is being held to ransom.

The OP has gone quiet since igniting this debate, so maybe there was something iffy about his case, but the other has remained, corroborating the story that players are being told to send documents to the Philipines, rather than the licensed offices in Gibraltar.

Are we to believe that ALL players at Playtech casinos have their data stored centrally at the Playtech offices in Manilla?

If CASINOS and processors show more willing to do business with Fillipinos, players will not be so worried about their data ending up there. We have already got used to much of our data being held in India, but the Indian goverment have made sure that every effort goes into stamping out leaks in the system. India fears that too many incidents of data leaks will destroy their credibility as a secure data location, and they will lose a big chunk of their economy. If you get caught misappropriating data in India, the penalties can be quite severe. It still goes on because there is a market for it, and many who buy data from brokers do not ask enough questions about where it came from, since if they don't know, they can claim "good faith" as a defence if caught out.

There ARE worse places though, I would be even less happy having my data sent to Panama, or Costa Rica. This might be down to the perception that many dodgy companies hole up in these countries, where they seem able to carry on "roguing away" without any action being taken by the authorities.

Sadly, this means ALL citizens of that country are not trusted, just as casinos will tar ALL Danes, or ALL Neteller depositors, with the same brush, just because there are more "baddies" coming from these sources than others.

We only hear the stories about these countries that the media want us to hear, and we may NOT be getting the full picture, such as recent tightening of the law enfocement procedures and security in the Philipines, which one poster actually IN the Philipines has mentioned. We have not heard how well this is working, but the only way to judge is by what the big fish do, such as whether Neteller changes it's stance and begins accepting customers from there because they are happy that the new laws are working.

PS.

I wouldn't even send my documents to LONDON through normal post, let alone the Philipines. I would use recorded delivery at the minimum, so I could check that the package ended up where it should, and be able to PROVE IT.

 

[maxd]

It may sound arrogant and superior, but players are not even being given a choice ....

Please note that not once here have I said or implied that players should be happy sending their documents to the requested location.

My point from square one was as I specified: you can't assume that Filipinos are going to steal your documents because they are poor. That's it. End of what I was trying to say.

As to the docs it may well be that Manila is a crime-ridden hole, in which case dire reluctance to send anything there may be quite appropriate. But it's not because there are lots of poor people there, it's because the place is (or may be) a crime-ridden hole.

Lots of places with impoverished populations are not crime-ridden holes. Poor people are not criminals by default any more than rich people are virtuous by default: common stereotypes yes, but bogus just the same.

And before anyone asks yes, I have lived with the poor, I've been one of them. Poverty does not create criminals no matter how popular such a notion may be in movies and on television. Lots of things can drive impoverished people to crime but being poor is no guarantee of criminal behaviour any more that being rich is a guarantee of virtuous behaviour.

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya; This was over 19 years ago. I had to send all kinds of documents, and money, to process the paperwork to bring my Wife here. passport/visa, Copy of bank statements, ID, proof of income, and so on. We also sent over 240 letters back n forth during the 2 years it took to get her here. Not one single document, or check, or money order, was compromised, or came up missing. I am just saying..................................

 

[vinylweatherman]

Please note that not once here have I said or implied that players should be happy sending their documents to the requested location.

My point from square one was as I specified: you can't assume that Filipinos are going to steal your documents because they are poor. That's it. End of what I was trying to say.

As to the docs it may well be that Manila is a crime-ridden hole, in which case dire reluctance to send anything there may be quite appropriate. But it's not because there are lots of poor people there, it's because the place is (or may be) a crime-ridden hole.

Lots of places with impoverished populations are not crime-ridden holes. Poor people are not criminals by default any more than rich people are virtuous by default: common stereotypes yes, but bogus just the same.

And before anyone asks yes, I have lived with the poor, I've been one of them. Poverty does not create criminals no matter how popular such a notion may be in movies and on television. Lots of things can drive impoverished people to crime but being poor is no guarantee of criminal behaviour any more that being rich is a guarantee of virtuous behaviour.

Hiya; This was over 19 years ago. I had to send all kinds of documents, and money, to process the paperwork to bring my Wife here. passport/visa, Copy of bank statements, ID, proof of income, and so on. We also sent over 240 letters back n forth during the 2 years it took to get her here. Not one single document, or check, or money order, was compromised, or came up missing. I am just saying..................................

So WHY is it A-OK for the casino to INSIST these players send the documents to Manila, rather than Gibraltar? Reluctance is not the point, THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. Discussions of the reasons are not the point either, these players ARE worried about sending their documents over there, why should this be their ONLY option?

If this is what the GRA are going to allow, I am disappointed. GRA should INSIST that such sensitive data is held and processed IN Gibraltar, under the protection of the laws of Gibraltar.

Hiya; This was over 19 years ago. I had to send all kinds of documents, and money, to process the paperwork to bring my Wife here. passport/visa, Copy of bank statements, ID, proof of income, and so on. We also sent over 240 letters back n forth during the 2 years it took to get her here. Not one single document, or check, or money order, was compromised, or came up missing. I am just saying..................................

Is the problem worse now than 19 years ago? I don't think there was such an "industry" for ID fraud then, because there were far easier ways to rip off companies & banks because the technology was not so good.

Did you send these by normal post, or by a special service of some sort.


Since the documents themselves have ALREADY been notarised, WHY isn't an emailed copy good enough. It is the NOTARY that has done the verification of the documents, that's what Notaries are for. All the casino has to do is contact the Notary to check that the documents were indeed notarised by them.

I think the casino is being unreasonable in not allowing for the PLAYER'S security concerns, and looking for a compromise.

What is the problem with posting them to Gibraltar, as specified on their terms and conditions.

Perhaps the player should make a complaint to the GRA, and ask THEM to help with ensuring the documents get to the casino for verification, but SECURELY, and with some comeback if the casino loses them.

What worries me is just how OFTEN casinos "lose" such documents that have been sent to them, this is a shocking display of how lax the controls are for securing this sensitive information. How many PABs have involved casinos losing sensitive player documentation, leading to the problems ultimately needing a PAB?

When will casinos move from the "stone age", and introduce secure direct upload, rather than email, fax, and the post?

My BANK would not DREAM of sending and receiving account specific information through email, they INSIST on all this being done on secure websites. They would probably end up in trouble from the regulators if they had a system based on non-encrypted email.

 

[maxd]

So WHY is it A-OK for the casino to INSIST these players send the documents to Manila ....

Hello?!? Who is saying it is? I sure as heck didn't!

Since you ask this after quoting the two previous posts, one of which was mine, I can only assume you are addressing this to me or love2winalot. Neither of us has suggested anything of the kind.

So where are you getting this? Please quote the specific post text that brought you to think I or love2winalot said any such thing.

If you want my personal opinion on the documents issue I think players should probably tell them to [strike]get stuffed[/strike] find a better way. For instance, I can't think of a good reason why documents couldn't be sent to Gibraltar and then forwarded by them to Manila if that's the way they want to do it.

Sadly I think you've completely missed the point of my previous posts here. C'est la vie I guess.

How many PABs have involved casinos losing sensitive player documentation, leading to the problems ultimately needing a PAB?

I can only think of a few cases since Dec '07 that would directly qualify as a "lost documents" cases. Others may have been caused by this type of thing but it wasn't apparent that that was the problem.

When will casinos move from the "stone age", and introduce secure direct upload, rather than email, fax, and the post?

When it is in their best interests to do so. And that probably means federal-level legislation -- unlikely -- or player pressure -- I'll believe that is happening when I see it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hello?!? Who is saying it is? I sure as heck didn't!

Since you ask this after quoting the two previous posts, one of which was mine, I can only assume you are addressing this to me or love2winalot. Neither of us has suggested anything of the kind.

So where are you getting this? Please quote the specific post text that brought you to think I or love2winalot said any such thing.

If you want my personal opinion on the documents issue I think players should probably tell them to [strike]get stuffed[/strike] find a better way. For instance, I can't think of a good reason why documents couldn't be sent to Gibraltar and then forwarded by them to Manila if that's the way they want to do it.

Sadly I think you've completely missed the point of my previous posts here. C'est la vie I guess.



I can only think of a few cases since Dec '07 that would directly qualify as a "lost documents" cases. Others may have been caused by this type of thing but it wasn't apparent that that was the problem.



When it is in their best interests to do so. And that probably means federal-level legislation -- unlikely -- or player pressure -- I'll believe that is happening when I see it.

It looks like these players are, but this means saying goodbye to their money. The casino is holding the money to ransom, and if they want it, the players have to do what they are told.

This group are SUPPOSED to be one of the better ones, and are licensed by Gibraltar, yet this doesn't seem to count for anything.

By sitting back, and letting this go unchallenged, we are implicitly condoning this action by the Mansion group. If we kick up one hell of a collective stink, they may see fit to change their ways.

The players affected could certainly do more than has been evident in this thread, after all THEY are the "case studies", and they have more power behind any action they take.

The GRA will not know about this unless one of these players files a dispute. The more that do, the better, and the GRA may tell the casino that it must adhere to the laws of Gibraltar when it comes to handling personal data.

The government will only get involved when it is too late! They know this goes on, but until there is a major incident traced back to how online casinos process data, they will not do anything about it.

The incident that got the UK government "doing something" about the common practice of holiday hotels routinely insisting on taking copies of guests' passports was when such practice was indirectly linked to fake UK passports being used by assasins, thought to be past of an Israeli secret service mission. The issue was that the practice was so widespread that people had come to regard it as "normal", and obeyed without question. In fact, only a few types of official are supposed to even see a passport, and even fewer can take a copy.

In the case of online casinos, it seems more likely that their data would be useful for getting illegal immigrants past border controls in some countries, attacking the weakest points where checks are less thorough.

Currently, it seems most leaked player data gets used for "marketing" rather than anything more sinister. It certainly seems that MY data has somehow leaked in a form that connects my email address to someone interested in online gambling.

 

[love2winalot]

VWM, everyone agrees that you should not have to send, 'Any documents' thru the normal mail, to ANYWHERE. Hell, even the casino's, "Bodog" as example, send your check via Fed X, and you have to sign for it. If the OP said, "they want me to send documents via normal mail to canada", that should also be a no no.

If it is normal mail, the sending it to the Philippines, or Mexico, or China, or Germany, or anywhere in the world, is still the same risk. You have people in America who just follow the mail truck around, and take mail out of peoples mail boxes. Put the little red, "ougoing" mail to be picked up, and they will look to see if you are paying a bill, so they can steal the check.

For the most part, there are NO mailboxes in the philippines. The carrier will knock on the door, and give the letter to someone at the house.

 

[vinylweatherman]

VWM, everyone agrees that you should not have to send, 'Any documents' thru the normal mail, to ANYWHERE. Hell, even the casino's, "Bodog" as example, send your check via Fed X, and you have to sign for it. If the OP said, "they want me to send documents via normal mail to canada", that should also be a no no.

If it is normal mail, the sending it to the Philippines, or Mexico, or China, or Germany, or anywhere in the world, is still the same risk. You have people in America who just follow the mail truck around, and take mail out of peoples mail boxes. Put the little red, "ougoing" mail to be picked up, and they will look to see if you are paying a bill, so they can steal the check.

For the most part, there are NO mailboxes in the philippines. The carrier will knock on the door, and give the letter to someone at the house.

Can these carriers be trusted? This system is in some ways SAFER than the system we have here. The UK mail is vulnerable when there are shared mailboxes, which you will often find in shared housing where the landlord has converted a house into several units, but with a single postal address & front door. Mail is put through the letterbox, and anyone in that place can get to it. Recorded delivery letters MUST be handed over & signed for, so it seems the Philipines operate to a higher standard than us when it comes to mail. I presume the same is true of business mail, the carrier hands it over in person to a representative of the business, rather than just leaving it in reception.

The UK problems are caused largely by the shift from using full time staff to using "agency" staff, who are often less well vetted than full time Royal Mail employees. Criminals try to get their insiders into the Royal Mail through these agencies.

If the casinos (Playtech at least) are so confident that the Philipines are now "data safe", PROVE IT, take on Filipino players as you do US ones, and eWallets like Neteller can prove it by allowing Filipinos to run Neteller accounts. If players see this level of confidence from the eWallets and the casinos, they will not be so worried about it being far worse to send the documents to Manila than to anywhere else.

Playtech probably cannot accept Filipinos because of having their offices there, but other casinos with no exposure to the authorities there could.

Some casinos have pretty long lists of countries they consider "hotspots of fraud", and there are some pretty odd ones listed, tiny countries, larger ones, but they mostly have one thing in common. They are the POORER countries of the world. The CASINOS have clearly made the connection between a country being poor, and an increased risk of fraud coming from that country. It is no wonder that ordinary consumers have the same worries about fraud from these same countries. It may be that poor countries just don't have the money to run a good law enforcement service, so criminals move their operations to these countries to take advantage of the lower risk of being caught. The criminals then get very rich, and this can make it even harder for the authorities there to get rid of them.

So, where's the OP that started all this off then?

The OP has not fought his case out on the forums, so is the amount so small as to not be worth the bother, or have they decided to complain via the GRA.

Is the Mansion group now a "no-can-do" for the PAB service?

 

[spearmaster]

Online gambling in the Philippines is expressly prohibited except to the sole license holder (which doesn't even operate online any more).

VWM - again you make assumptions without checking your facts.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Online gambling in the Philippines is expressly prohibited except to the sole license holder (which doesn't even operate online any more).

VWM - again you make assumptions without checking your facts.

It's also expressly forbidden in other countries, this doesn't stop casinos from elsewhere from offering services to citizens of said country.

Some states in the US do have laws that expressly forbid online gambling, yet there are some casinos that will still operate there, and surely would not be any more afraid of the authorities in the Philipines than they are of those in the USA.

Neteller are not JUST for gambling transactions, they would merely need to offer only non-gambling services to Filipinos, such as the benefits of the Net+ card, and money transfer service.
I suspect it is the money transfer function that they are not happy to offer to Filipinos, since they deem them too high a risk.

The initial question raised in this post was whether it is correct that Playtech casinos can REQUIRE any player to POST documents to the Manila offices, even though there is no mention of Manila being the place where posted documents should be sent in the terms.

Why are players not allowed to post the documents to the stated address in Gibraltar if they feel more comfortable that way.

Why the need at all to post NOTARISED documents, the notary has ALREADY verified the originals, and this can itself be verified by contacting the notary (I assume this is normal procedure in such cases).

I am more familiar with this than you think, having dealt with my father's estate, and helped my Mum deal with my Stepfather's estate.

When the bank wanted originals to be sent, we were able to get the originals notarised by her bank instead, and being the same bank as where the estate monies were held, the documents no longer needed to be sent. The bank sent their notarised copies instead to head office.

I DO have an axe to grind with Playtech, and this is because they accuse us Brits of EXACTLY what Max called me out on with my post about connecting poor people with high rates of criminality, just because they are poor. Playtech do the same with the British, they say we are a much higher risk simply because we are British. It may be statistically true, but it is also statistically true that the rates of crime (all types, not just fraud) are generally higher among poor populations than better off ones.

If I faced having my child starve, I too could be bought. I am no different underneath than the poor of these other countries.

 

[maxd]

... it is also statistically true that the rates of crime (all types, not just fraud) are generally higher among poor populations than better off ones.

The poor crook may nick your hubcaps but the rich one will steal your pension fund, or scam you out of your life savings, or poison your ocean through criminal negligence. Who's more likely to actually get charged and do time for their deeds? And how many hubcaps could you have bought with that pension fund?

That said I realize that class inequality and social injustice isn't what this thread is about. I'm sure no one will shed a tear if I respectfully beg off and shut my gob on this particular subject.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The poor crook may nick your hubcaps but the rich one will steal your pension fund, or scam you out of your life savings, or poison your ocean through criminal negligence. Who's more likely to actually get charged and do time for their deeds? And how many hubcaps could you have bought with that pension fund?

That said I realize that class inequality and social injustice isn't what this thread is about. I'm sure no one will shed a tear if I respectfully beg off and shut my gob on this particular subject.

This is how many fear ID theft works. The poor insider will nick your documents from the postal service, sell it to a middle man, who then sells it to the crime syndicate with the resources to USE those documents to pull off the ID fraud and related scams. Poorer populations mean more POTENTIAL sources of raw material, and thus the big crimials get even richer, often to the point of being able to "buy" the law enfocement services, even some government officials.

Naturally, no-one will TELL us what is ACTUALLY going on ("security"), so all we have are our perceptions. Currently, the post is the LEAST trusted method for sending sensitive documents, perhaps more so than email (maybe because people do not understand just HOW insecure email can be if used carelessly).

 

[spearmaster]

It's also expressly forbidden in other countries, this doesn't stop casinos from elsewhere from offering services to citizens of said country.

Some states in the US do have laws that expressly forbid online gambling, yet there are some casinos that will still operate there, and surely would not be any more afraid of the authorities in the Philipines than they are of those in the USA.

Neteller are not JUST for gambling transactions, they would merely need to offer only non-gambling services to Filipinos, such as the benefits of the Net+ card, and money transfer service.
I suspect it is the money transfer function that they are not happy to offer to Filipinos, since they deem them too high a risk.

You are really going out on a limb here. There is still a difference between state and country, for one thing. And for another, Net+ is not available in MOST countries...

I DO have an axe to grind with Playtech, and this is because they accuse us Brits of EXACTLY what Max called me out on with my post about connecting poor people with high rates of criminality, just because they are poor. Playtech do the same with the British, they say we are a much higher risk simply because we are British. It may be statistically true, but it is also statistically true that the rates of crime (all types, not just fraud) are generally higher among poor populations than better off ones.

Playtech does nothing of the sort. Some Playtech casinos DO. Some do not.

And just for clarification, Playtech does not, and never has had, offices in the Philippines. Some Playtech casinos do. Some do not.

 

[Casinomeister]

...
And just for clarification, Playtech does not, and never has had, offices in the Philippines. Some Playtech casinos do. Some do not.

Oopsie - my bad - I meant to say that.

I've visited the Playtech powered casinos' offices in Manila, not the Playtech offices

 

[tarrix]

Hi ALL

There haven`t been any updates. The casino hasn`t contacted me on this matter. It seems they don`t have a rep here. I haven`t sent them notarised documents, only electronic version.

Is there a chance of having them revoke their ridiculous request?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Oopsie - my bad - I meant to say that.

I've visited the Playtech powered casinos' offices in Manila, not the Playtech offices

So, even LESS justification for making players send documents to the Philipines then. Exactly WHO is going to be processing these SENSITIVE documents if this is NOT Playtech central (verification). Why can the CASINO not receive these documents from this player at their OWN offices in Gibraltar?

I am not the only one "going out on a limb" here, only PLAYTECH (and the rogue operators) have given players this kind of run-around.

It's not SOME Playtech casinos that are "anti-Brit", but most of them, and this is based on advice given to them BY PLAYTECH to do this, NOT something they have thought up all by themselves.

Only a FEW Playtech casinos welcome Brits on the same terms as the rest of the world, whereas almost ALL casinos powered by other softwares accept Brits with no additional restrictions.

If this was based on "real world" factors, surely ALL casinos would at least be taking extra care when accepting British players, as "real world" fraud is pretty indiscriminate, it will go for the weak spots in ANY company in order to make the most money in the shortest time.

If the Philipines are so very anti about online gambling, why are online casinos permitted to host part of their operations there. Online casinos, on the whole, do NOT have "offices" in the USA, they merely have a few processors who have some staff in the USA, just enough to complete the payments to and from the casinos. Anyone remotely connected to online gambling is open to arrest when on US soil, even those who are no longer connected, such as the Neteller execs arrested even though they have long since left the company, and only worked there BEFORE the US brought in UIGEA.

 

[P.V.]

Hi ALL

There haven`t been any updates. The casino hasn`t contacted me on this matter. It seems they don`t have a rep here. I haven`t sent them notarised documents, only electronic version.

Is there a chance of having them revoke their ridiculous request?

If you're still getting ridicules requests for document verification I'd contact GRA as VWM suggested.

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[Casinomeister]

...If the Philipines are so very anti about online gambling, why are online casinos permitted to host part of their operations there...

Because the Philippines license online casinos

In fact Spear and I had a sit down with the commissioner a few years ago.

Edited to add: many casinos that are Asian facing have their offices in Manila - so it's not all that uncommon to have the administrative offices there as well. So it not as dubious as it might appear to be on the surface.