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Fortune Lounge tedious verification process

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by cristra, Oct 6, 2012.

    Oct 6, 2012
  1. cristra

    cristra Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    casino enthusiast
    Location:
    around
    I see another poster had a similar experience to mine with Fortune Lounge... coincidentally (or not) we share the same first name and the same country. Other than that, we are not related. Since his issue has been resolved, I think it is better to open a new thread.

    I've been an online casino player since I open my CM account (over 5 years ago), and within the last year I mainly played at Fortune Lounge, pretty consistently.

    First request for account verification was sent in January this year. This is the only time I received an e-mail asking for verification documents (all other times I had to find out on live chat after payment delays). At that time I sent them copies of my driving license and bank statement... everything was fine. Got paid, no problem.

    Then in May they asked for photo of me holding the identification document and an updated proof of address... complied again. Got paid, no problem.

    One week ago I was asked for another set of documents: a form of ID (other than driving license) and utility bill (other than bank statement). I sent them my national ID card and my mobile phone bill, but this time my withdrawal remained pending.

    Yesterday I came back on live chat to ask if everything is fine and I've been told they now require an ISP (internet service provider) statement. I then asked what is this document exactly and they said it comes together with the bill and it must show my internet activity(!) I replied that the bill does not include such a statement, moreover, this document is addressed to the apartment owner, who is my father. Even so, I've been told they still need it.

    I tried to argue that this document involves a third party, who has nothing to do with my online gaming, and that my account has been over-verified with 2 forms of ID, 2 different utility bills, photo etc... it's not like I couldn't provide them with confirmation of all the account details. Their terms even list eligible verification documents:

    To this they replied quoting the following term:

    ...and added that without ISP statement, "there will be no withdrawals processed on your account."

    I leave it up to you to decide what relevance term 8.3 has for their request.

    Anyway, I got home yesterday afternoon, searched for a recent internet bill, I photographed and sent it, even though I don't think it shows what they're asking, but that's the only correspondence I receive from the ISP.

    Shortly after that I got a phone call to confirm if I play only from home. I said I play from home and from work also (during lunch breaks), but this doesn't matter since I use the same personal laptop. Even though it was Friday evening, the agent asked me why it took so long for me to answer (the connection failed a couple of times before finally managing to start talking) and if the phone no is personal or from work, even though my number shows on the mobile telephone bill I sent them recently (basically they have proof for every account detail). He continued to ask me if I know anybody else from work or at home who plays online or saw me playing or if I let anybody gamble with my money (!?) Of course that's out of the question!

    I've then been informed that I will get an update on Monday, when the 'player security' department returns.

    I have naver been put through this before, I am surprised and disappointed. Fortune Lounge appeared to be one of the more reputable places to play, I was pretty much a regular there, and this withdrawal (like others) did not include bonus play.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  2. Oct 6, 2012
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think an "ISP Statement" is just another name for the bill for internet service to the address. It should state which ISP is providing the service as part of the billing information.

    Are you using some weird and wonderful network configuration, such as a VPN?

    Some configurations tend to confuse the back end software, and can cause it to generate flags of suspicion. You may have such a configuration set up if anybody in your apartment is using something like BitTorrent or traditional P2P to share files. The settings are intended to confuse the RIAA and other bodies trying to catch it, but can also cause problems when playing casinos.

    In short, it can make you appear to be playing from somewhere that doesn't exist, or on a machine that appears to have no hardware. This is bound to get them suspicious.

    A more down to earth cause would be your father also having an account there.


    Matching first names would not cause any suspicion, but if both first and last names match, along with other things like living in the same apartment, they will be asking for additional documents to make sure it really is 2 people with the same name, rather than one person with two accounts.

    It should normally be possible to "reverse lookup" on an IP address and find out who owns it. This would normally lead to your ISP, and would be the usual means of determining who your ISP was, and which local network segment (town/city/district) you played from. Even with dynamic IP they could narrow it down this far.

    The fact they can't satisfy themselves without asking you to show evidence of who your ISP is suggests something like a VPN has been configured on your laptop. It would be best to switch it off and use a traditional LAN configuration when playing casinos.

    Playing from work is not a good idea, even from your own machine. The problem is that you will be connecting via a work LAN, and for their own reasons they may have configured it in a way that makes your access to the casino look suspicious.

    When you registered at this forum, your IP address will have been detected and stored. You could send a PM to Bryan to ask if what has been recorded looks a little odd.

    Ultimately, after sending a PM to the rep like the previous player did in a similar situation, you could PAB, a free service for members of CM who play accredited casinos. You will have a fresh set of eyes looking at this case, and the documents you have provided, and considering whether or not the requirements have been proportionate to the risk.

    In the previous case, the player reluctantly provided the third party documentation and got paid.

    A mobile phone bill, which you provided, is not normally considered good enough, which is why they might be also asking to see the bill from the ISP as well. You holding up your ID is the only way to PROPERLY verify a photo ID remotely - they can see that you and the photo are of the same person. It is preferable to receiving a request to nip into town to have your ID notarised. Your father can help by taking the picture. You don't have to say any more than you need it to verify yourself in an "internet purchase" if you don't want to admit to being a gambler. Word it so he doesn't jump to the conclusion you are buying porn, as this could be even worse than admitting to gambling:oops:
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Oct 6, 2012
  5. cristra

    cristra Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    casino enthusiast
    Location:
    around
    Thank you for such an elaborate post!

    I will seek clarification on that, as I have asked a tech savvy friend to set up my computer and internet connection in such a way that I am best protected when playing online, although that was quite a while ago and I never had this kind of problem before.
     
  6. Oct 6, 2012
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    He may well have set you up a VPN. These make you safe by making you anonymous to websites. Unfortunately, this means some services can't use the usual "painless" methods for verifying their customers, and where real money changes hands, it can make the business feel very unsafe. This can result in them having to make the checks "painful", in this case, by asking for so many extra documents, proof of who your ISP is, and also thorough proof of where you are living. A VPN would allow you to do things that the software would normally forbid, such as registering and playing from the USA.

    A VPN is useful if you are using insecure public WiFi, but should not be necessary if you are using your own home network, or one at work, both of which will be secured by traditional means such as encryption and firewalls.

    A VPN is also favoured by people who are "up to something", so of course when casinos spot a player using one they have to wonder "what's he up to", and then try to find out, or get enough evidence to convince them there is nothing dodgy going on.

    If you are going to use something like a VPN when playing casinos, you will have to be prepared for frequent requests for additional documentation, and often some difficulties convincing them you are doing nothing wrong.

    Ask your friend exactly how he set you up, and post it here. You may not understand it, but some of us here might, and could perhaps see why you have encountered this problem despite having played at this group for some while without trouble, and advise on how to still remain safe online, but not make casinos suspicious of your play or motives.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Oct 7, 2012
  9. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Make money!
    Location:
    Turn around...
    How, I'm curious? :confused:

    The user would know if they're connecting via VPN access, correct?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  10. Oct 7, 2012
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I would hope so, but the casino could tell for certain.

    If I let a friend set up my computer, I would want to know HOW he had done it, and I would do my best to understand it. As an experienced online player, I know that one does not want to do anything that looks suspicious, as it will hold up the verification procedures.

    It's a shame the software isn't designed to just trip out when there is something odd about the connection. This would force players to be up front about the subject from the start, or simply not play. Microgaming software should have this facility as it is designed to trip out if connected to by an IP address that comes from the USA. Maybe this should be extended so that it trips out when a proxy or VPN is detected.

    The OP now faces a tedious verification process, and should blame his friend for not properly assessing his requirements before setting him up for safe (anonymous) internet browsing. Keep the VPN for BitTorrent, but switch it off when playing casinos. Better still, use separate machines.
     
  12. Oct 8, 2012
  13. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi cristra

    Please PM me your account details.

    Regards

    Wim
     
  14. Oct 8, 2012
  15. fortunelounge

    fortunelounge Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Operations Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi cristra

    There is no need to send me your account details as you actually spoke to our Head of Player Security on Friday.

    I have been informed that you are sharing identifiers with other players and that there are numerous other similarities between you and several other Romanian players, all who have not only been locked out by us but other operators as well.

    As in the other cases, your last deposit will be refunded.

    Regards

    Wim
     
    3 people like this.
  16. Oct 8, 2012
  17. cristra

    cristra Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    casino enthusiast
    Location:
    around
    I figured it must have something to do with where I live since I saw the recent precedent on the forum and from the questions your colleague asked on the phone it was pretty much clear where this was heading.

    For some reason, after my withdrawal from Sep. 29th it has been decided I share similarities with others. If I don't represent your 'ideal customer' and you don't want me playing there anymore, that's fine. The problem is on 23rd and 25th I deposited, played and lost and with the withdrawal on 29th I was pretty much breaking even. So that's my deposited money you're withholding, not actual winnings.

    ...and I complied with your requests for account verification every time, 4 times.

    ...and I haven't been 'locked out' by any other operator.
     
  18. Oct 8, 2012
  19. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    I find it interesting that you didn't actually deny the reps allegations.

    I'd have thought it would have been the first port of call.
     
  20. Oct 11, 2012
  21. nosecs

    nosecs Banned User - PAB fraud PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Bookkeping
    Location:
    Est Europe
    Don't worry cristra you are not allone. I have a simillar situation with this group, unfortunately I am not able to give more details because I accessed PAB procedure. I expect that the result will not be favorable to me (I think I was born in the wrong country) so I will came back here with a interesting story.

    PS: We live in the same country


     
  22. Oct 24, 2012
  23. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Yep, a similar situation - but yours was determined to be player fraud. The result was not favorable - as you had expected. :p

    Bye.
     
  24. Oct 24, 2012
  25. anniemac

    anniemac Ueber Meister MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Texas, USA
    VWM and P.V.,

    I don't think that every online players know what kind of a connection they have. I, for one, haven't a clue.

    I have my internet service thru my telephone company, along with television and land-line phone. I didn't set up anything, the telephone service guy did it all. So I can't tell you what kind of connection I have except I pay for Hi-Speed. LOL!

    If I had to send in my internet provider bill, I hope they can make heads or tails out of it because I sure can't. Just pay what's on there and hope it's right.
     

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