Captain Cooks group in trouble?

[rkayn]

Who is blaming the player for anything in my post? Not me.

I don't know what you read into that, but that was about the furthest from my mind of all possible deductions.

I am blaming the online casinos for having painted themselves into a corner with totally irrational ways of doing business.

They need to learn from the land casinos how to give gifts correctly.

Bonuses aren't gifts anymore - for the majority of online players they have become traps.

I believe that only his first paragraph was in direct response to the sentence of yours he quoted. The rest of his post was not directed at you.

 

[dirk_dangerous]

Who is blaming the player for anything in my post? Not me.

My apologies dominique. Only the first paragraph of my post was a response to your post. The rest of the post was directed at Integritys attempts to blame the players for their situation. I know you aren't one to blame players.

 

[Vesuvio]

Give jetset a break; he works his ass off to provide a news service that is second to none in this industry.

Fair enough. I respect Jetset and didn't mean for this to get out of hand - I was only disagreeing with the content of one news story/editorial.

 

[rkayn]

I think that you may see more and more PABs, as the 7 day period specified in their audit E-mail has now expired. I did one yesterday, after my 3/18 E-mail asking the status of my withdrawals was responded to with a form E-mail that didn't address my question.

I don't see any reason to bore anyone here with the details of my own problematic experience with Integrity, but I did want to bring up something that I thought of when I was PABing that I haven't seen on this thread yet. I signed up with Cooks and Kingdom through an affiliate link with

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.

Do they check affiliate websites before OKing them? Do they at least look at the URL? How can they OK a site like that as an affiliate and then turn around and pretend to be surprised when people who sign up from that site (and/or others like it) play there for the bonuses - and then try to use that as some pathetic justification for stealing any winnings? All when you play exactly as their agent recommends.

Let me note that as of today, over 10 days after their "audit" was announced, the affiliate links at that site still work. I guess Integrity actually doesn't mind people "bonus hunting" if they are depositing. Just as long as those players don't then have the temerity to ask for a withdrawal.

 

[bonustreak]

To other affiliates waiting we were paid our affiliate money today, thanks!

 

[Wes Side]

Implementing the bonus account was not helpful to anyone in the first place and very confusing to players. You can see some of the confusion here: Outdated URL (Invalid) ,

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,

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(this one mostly relates to the even worse system at the Casino Rewards group which I think implemented the system slightly before the Integrity group)

Bonuses that require a college degree to make sense of are probably not helping casinos. I know a bunch of "bonus hunters," and they are probably the few who actually take the time to look at the terms and conditions and plan accordingly. Regular players who get screwed over due to a small piece of T&C fine-print will probably never play at said casino again. Casinos that use an inane bonus requirement are shooting themselves in the foot.

I'll let you guys in on a little secret: there is one casino out there that knows how to conduct business well and balances the line well enough that bonus hunters play there during non-bonus times just to avoid being banned from future reloads. Let me repeat that. "Bonus hunters" play at the casino even if there is no bonus. They give back to the casino and play there for fun when they feel like playing for fun. This business model apparently works very well for all. Other casinos make you jump through so many hoops and offer such lame reloads that they aren't worth the bother.

Seriously, the current majority of bonus structures are akin to casinos taking drastic measures against card-counters over the years. They go so overboard and alienate so many people that it's often obvious they don't understand the game and don't know what they are doing. I am continually unsurprised that the people who know the least about casino games are the people who work at casinos.

I have no money at the Cook's group, but my brother and a friend does. My friend played half the signup bonus on slot machines that have a big player disadvantage. No real bonus hunter would dare play a slot. His money is still frozen anyway because he played some blackjack along with it. I guaran-f'n-tee you that if Cook's takes the bonus or winnings from anyone who played the bonus on the casino's terms, they are done. Cook's, don't shoot yourself in the foot more than you already have. You can still save your reputation on this. Suck it up and hire someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[555YY]

Like I said, CC could have avoided all this; my offer to online casinos still stands $2000 an hour plus expenses, and I will solve all your promotion problems

would you like that in your bonus account?

i too, can offer a easy solution for the casinos regarding bonuses

i only charge 1k per hr

however, i also require a 6 foot swedish masseuse named helga

 

[Chatmaster]

Another thing, this thread should be made mandatory reading for all casino operators. Besides some of the unnecessary emotionalisms, there are a number of informative and well-thought out posts. Thanks to all for making this a groovy place to be.

This has been noted and fully supported!

 

[jetset]

Lurkio, that response to my mind shows just how unreasonable and lacking in logic your post is, but then your main priority consistently appears to be as confrontational as you can in getting your often quaint ideas across. It's your trade mark and you work at it assiduously.

You seem to be someone working within the industry, and that makes your rather arrogant discounting of these directors and their close operational involvement with eCOGRA all the more surprising.

I can't believe it is ignorance because your knowledge has to be better than that. Your insistence on claiming that Microgaming calls all the shots despite the involvement of another very significant industry corporate (and more on the way by the looks of things) must also be the product of something more than being ill-informed.

However, on to more useful and thought provoking matters - this thread does present some really useful perspectives and I join the view that casino operators should take the time to sift through it, discarding the inevitable personal shots but benefitting from some solid ideas.

 

[caruso]

No one likes seeing a damn fine casino thats run by some really great people get pummeled and slammed around. And no one likes seeing players getting jerked around either (evil or not). Its pretty sad.

I agree with the second bit, but the evidence of the thread doesn't support in any way the notion that this is a fine place, Bryan. Really great people don't steal, and unless ALL of these claims are fraudulent - which clearly is not the case - that is what they are doing: stealing. Stealing from one player is no better than stealing from a thousand. I'm aware you know more about the behind-the-scenes shinanigans than us, but as far as the matter of theft from non rule-breaking players goes, there's little more we need to know: Vesuvio (at the very least) played by the rules; the casino is trying to rob him. No matter what may be known behind the scenes, all WE need to know is those two facts to establish that this operation, by design or desperation (the latter I believe), has moved over to the dark side.

Once fine, quite possibly. Once great people, maybe. Clearly, no longer on either count.

 

[Vesuvio]

Vesuvio (at the very least) played by the rules; the casino is trying to rob him.

I'm not actually affected by this personally, but replace my name by a large number of others and the statement stands.

I don't take any pleasure in seeing Captain Cooks & co. in trouble. They were a casino with good customer service, although from my own 'insider' knowledge of the industry I'd say they were grossly mismanaged with regard to bonuses. It's ironic that they seem to be struggling only now when their bonuses are far less attractive than they were for months last year (they were then easily the most generous MG casino if you knew how to handle the bonus account).

Perhaps they can still dig themselves out of this hole if they pay out everyone who played by their rules, though it'll be difficult to overcome the PR disaster even if they're still well-funded. It continually suprises me that casinos aren't willing to meet the small expense of hiring someone competent to represent themselves on boards like this one (and in the industry as a whole). An ability to use English articulately and some understanding of PR would seem to be prerequisites.

 

[ICL Rep]

Hi All and thankyou for the very very very in depth anaylsis, speculation, advice, suggestions, support and thoughts regarding our business. Believe it or not, I am a part of senior management at Integrity Casinos.

It has taken me about 5 hours to read the full thread here ... wow.

This is not an "official" statement. I read the thread and I felt compelled to acknowledge all of your comments, thankyou again. Some of it, as many of you have pointed out, is compulsory reading for any operator. In particular, I am reviewing my perspective on bonuses in general - bonuses (not our solvency) being the crux of the issue - and, in particular, our response to the surge in "advantage play" at our sites. This, I gather, is the intention of the thread in the first place.

Forgive me but this post will not answer the questions you have raised. We hope to do so over the next day or two. For the moment, rest assured that anyone with a genuine and legitimate claim to funds in a casino account at any of our sites will have that claim honoured and that The Captain, The King, and Classic will be sailing the Seven Seas (and the other respective metaphors) for many years to come. I encourage you to PAB if you feel that you have been dealt with unfairly - our intention is not to steal or misappropriate funds.

Our intention is to change the way we do things so that we are not in the position of channeling resources away from customer service and into fraud prevention - which is where we find ourselves now. We are proud of our reputation as a fun, service-oriented group. Its unfortunate that our reputation is in jeopardy - obviously I wish it wasnt. I hope that those of you who were loyal members of the Captain's Crew in the past, can stick with us.

Btw, obviously I am a little out of touch with the forums because when I began the investigation into the unusual trends we picked up, I innocently referred to it as an "audit" not realising that this was a loaded term on the forums - my bad. My apologies for the delays in responding to your queries and withdrawals. Its hard to believe, I know, but the review of accounts is complex and time-consuming - more so than we thought.

Good luck wherever you are playing!

 

[Vesuvio]

For the moment, rest assured that anyone with a genuine and legitimate claim to funds in a casino account at any of our sites will have that claim honoured

I know you weren't planning to answer questions at this point, but can you confirm that players who met all your terms and conditions while autoplaying BJ have a legitimate claim to funds?

 

[Petunia]

** had a whole mail typed out and then lost it grrrrr!! The gyst of this was:

1) Tarnished reputations is a result of ineffective management
2) I hate the word good luck - it makes me feel like you know something I SHOULD - like a sleezy salesman saying "trust me" (Same goes for the 'believe it or not' line. It is a ripleys line... )
3) You should try and have foresight, as hindsight is a bummer especially when it leave dirt-tracks
4) Don't treat pple like mushrooms by feeding them junk and keeping them in the dark!
5) Good intentions and bad executions makes for a lot of 'buts'
just my 2c **

** EDIT: And the major issue was not about the bonusses, but payment of winnings + Legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder.... (or in this case operator?!)

 

[caruso]

You have been found to be skimming our promotions and using them for financial gain or a means of income rather then for entertainment purposes. You WILL have your deposits refunded but anything above the deposit amount will be retained by the casino.

Please explain what "skimming" means. Do you mean "winning with"?

Please explain how you establish that that a player has used a promo as a "means of income" and not been..."entertained".

Please explain how either of these...offences?...grant the casino the right to steal winnings and refund deposits.

Please explain where your T & C disallow whatever "skimming" means.

Assuming that a player, guilty of "skimming", lost his deposit, presumably his equally "fraudulent" play would entitle him to a deposit refund?

In early March, three of the casino brands operated by Integrity Casinos (Captain Cooks Casino, Casino Kingdom and Casino Classic) were found to have suffered a significant amount of suspect wagering.

Please explain "suspect wagering".

 

[universexf6]

I actually couldn't fathom even a speck who the he:: those
who are attacking this casino are and of what they are EXACTLY guilty of
because by reading all what happened including the commnet from the rep
above these "casino attackers" look very shady it sounds like they are
almost non existent but existent like Poltergeist. Well.... so could rep or anybody related with the casino clarify "WHO THESE ATTACKING YOUR CASINOS ARE AND WHAT WRONG EXACTLY BET BY BET THEY ARE DOING??"
Please?

 

[120sam]

In particular, I am reviewing my perspective on bonuses in general - bonuses (not our solvency) being the crux of the issue - and, in particular, our response to the surge in "advantage play" at our sites...

Advantage play is taking advantage of bonus offers whilst following the casino's terms and conditions. If you don't like it, change your bonus offers and terms and conditions. But not retrospectively please, it makes you look like a clip joint.

...Our intention is to change the way we do things so that we are not in the position of channeling resources away from customer service and into fraud prevention - which is where we find ourselves now.

Fraud is multiple accounts and false identities. If you locked the accounts and kept the winnings of players who do that you'd have the support of many on this forum.

The current problem is that your casinos are acting as if they're entitled to treat advantage players as if they were fraudsters. They aren't. Please understand the distinction, everyone else does.

 

[jetset]

Good post, 120sam.

I am trying to find something positive in this break in ICL's silence, and I'm hoping it is this:

QUOTE: I am reviewing my perspective on bonuses in general - bonuses (not our solvency) being the crux of the issue - and, in particular, our response to the surge in "advantage play" at our sites. UNQUOTE

Clearly a radical change in this bonus disqualification policy is necessary if the casinos in the ICL group are to have any hope of regaining credibility and reputation.

 

[amandajm]

ICL REP

Seeing as you posted at thwe Meisters..
If the surge in advantage play is multiple accounts, then i suggest you make a public undertaking to readdress all closed accounts suspected of "advantage play by opening multiple accounts" instantly with the Meister if a complaint is received by the Meister.

If you are trying to take the money of anyone not involved in multiple accounts and fraud, it will cost you the rest of your reputation.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi ICL Rep,

And welcome to the forum. I hope that you'll be able to shead some well needed assurance to the masses that players will be treated fairly, and to answer some of the questions that have been posed.

In turn, I hope that members of the forum will abide by the rules of this forum and not turn this into an ass-kicking fest. Thanks!

 

[dominique]

Ok, I owe an apology:

My apologies dominique. Only the first paragraph of my post was a response to your post. The rest of the post was directed at Integritys attempts to blame the players for their situation. I know you aren't one to blame players.
__________________
dirk_dangerous

My bad, I should have read more carefully.

IC rep, thank you for dropping in. I realize you have a tough audience here. I hope everyone will be civilized so there will be an informative exchange that leaves both sides with something constructive. When that happens, then message boards shine and are as useful as they can be.

I am afraid I won't be here to take part in this - I am leaving for Europe tomorrow and will not take my laptop with me.

I bet when I get back on the 10th of April I'll have hours of reading to do...

Have fun guys, and I hope to see a thread chuckfull of constructive exchanges here!

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Dom, have fun. See you in a couple of weeks.

Moving on...for the record I have eight "Pitch a Bitches". Two of the complaints are general complaints, not a specific "I'm getting effed up the ying yang" sort of a complaint - but a complaint that they don't like this situation. The other six are players who feel they have been targeted. I hope to have these resolved shortly.

Eight complaints ain't a hell of a lot - but if they are legitimate complaints, then this is eight too many.

 

[Lurkio]

Lurkio, that response to my mind shows just how unreasonable and lacking in logic your post is, but then your main priority consistently appears to be as confrontational as you can in getting your often quaint ideas across. It's your trade mark and you work at it assiduously.

You seem to be someone working within the industry, and that makes your rather arrogant discounting of these directors and their close operational involvement with eCOGRA all the more surprising.

I can't believe it is ignorance because your knowledge has to be better than that. Your insistence on claiming that Microgaming calls all the shots despite the involvement of another very significant industry corporate (and more on the way by the looks of things) must also be the product of something more than being ill-informed.

However, on to more useful and thought provoking matters - this thread does present some really useful perspectives and I join the view that casino operators should take the time to sift through it, discarding the inevitable personal shots but benefitting from some solid ideas.

QUAINT???!! now you are getting personal!! LOL

My post may well be unreasonable and arrogant..but it isnt lacking in logic...and I dont see anyone else running to their defence..and for the record I think your losing the plot a bit in this thread !.why are you SO defensive?

Now if there is a thread describing what these directors do that will "educate" me plse point me in the right direction..Im all eyes.

Id forgotten all about ecogra already but lets dicuss!

Seeing that you are getting paranoid about me now, and throwing around innuendo, which is hilarious , as its the very thing you get so pissy about...what does this mean ?

"..must also be the product of something more than being ill-informed.?"

Do you actually think I am an operator who has had a run in with ecogra???

 

[profiler]

I don't yet know whether ICL intends to ''target'' me. I emailed them this week, but received a standard reply that the audit is taking longer than anticipated or something like that. In the meantime i still have a cashout total of GBP 540 pending. I will PAB on friday if i have not received a decision by then. It will then have been two weeks since the audit announcement.

 

[kiolka]

Expect more PAB's in the next couple of days. Apparently players are now receiving emails that audit is almost complete and that their winnings are being taken away although they met the T+C's of the bonus offer. This is extremely unfair IMO since some of these players lost money (which wasn't refunded obviously) at one casino, and have won money (which isn't being paid out) at another casino within the group.