Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

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Oh dear what a non surprise. The neoliberal people in thrall to corporations and WEF all see eye to eye.


One Whitehall source said: ‘Jeremy has long been a huge admirer of Tony Blair. You could see it in the Chatham House conversation. It was a real love-in.

‘When Blair was critical of Brexit, there was no push back from Jeremy.’ (Hunt is a Remainer.)

View attachment 176373

That's nothing particularly new though, politicians from across the divide have often liked/admired other politicians from their own or other political parties. It's well known that Blair admired Thatcher, for example - and built a lot of the success of New Labour by understanding how Thatcher and the Tories managed to dominate the UK political landscape for so long.

New Labour were not a particularly left wing project, they did a lot of good stuff but very much within the realm of centrist politics, which is the ground that Starmer has moved the Labour party back to, it might win an election but it won't radically improve the lot of most people in the UK. We had a shot at a genuinely progressive government with true redistributive instincts at its core, under Jeremy Corbyn's Labour, but instead the country decided to 'GET BREXIT DONE' with Boris and look where we are now.

If Corbyn had won he'd have renationalised all those privatised utilities that are currently reaming the arse out of the population of the UK on their bills, or in the case of the water companies, filling our seas with shit. And of course the power companies are being given billions of pounds of taxpayer money to subsidise bills and maintain their profits with the energy price guarantee. Ahhh but crazy old Corbyn wanted to give poor people FREE INTERNET, can't have that, would have brought the country to its knees.

Still, at least we got Brexit and what a magnificent success it's been.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Can't win 'em all, I suppose. (Or in the case of Brexit, can't win anything.)

Once more we see the impact of the UK losing its unique 'staging post' position into the EU, see also all the business that has gone to Ireland, which of course remains a full EU member.

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[ChopleyIOM]

And Daniel 'no one is suggesting we lose our access to the single market' Hannan (officially the most consistently wrong person in the history of the world) appears to have actually gone mad.

Spoiler alert - Singaporean isn't even remotely happening either, not that we'd want it to anyway.

 

[Daavid63]

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Oh dear what a non surprise. The neoliberal people in thrall to corporations and WEF all see eye to eye.


One Whitehall source said: ‘Jeremy has long been a huge admirer of Tony Blair. You could see it in the Chatham House conversation. It was a real love-in.

‘When Blair was critical of Brexit, there was no push back from Jeremy.’ (Hunt is a Remainer.)

View attachment 176373

I think some where is a video of that, Hunt was giving Blair a handjob and just out of view was chopley with the tissues, remainers stick together as they say!!

 

[pinnit2014]

I think some where is a video of that, Hunt was giving Blair a handjob and just out of view was chopley with the tissues, remainers stick together as they say!!

 

[Jono777]

So glad I keep out of these type of threads 99% of the time.

That being said, If anyone is arranging a collection for a new keyboard for Mr. Chopley for Christmas, I'll be happy to chip in

 

[pinnit2014]

Not now she isn't - she is a busted flush as are her supporters. The SNP are a one trick pony, wasting tax payer funds going to the Supreme Court, knowing full well the decision would not go their way. Now they are being denied democracy!

Do not make me laugh! They had a democratic vote only 8 years ago. Compare that to the EU referendums in the UK. Prior to 2016, the last one was in 1974 just before I was born. Slightly longer than 8 years!

The SNP are toast, as their trump card and ace up their sleeve being the Tory government will be out of power in two years time. If current polls are to be believed, Labour are heading for a landslide of Tony Blair epic proportions.

The SNP cannot even handle the powers devolved to the Scottish Govt, but continue to garner support because the Tory government is pretty much universally despised North of the Border. They are able to get away with their many failings by blaming the tories, whilst beating the well worn drum for independence.

All they do is mismanage Scotland - Ferries. NHS, Education, drug problem....... As they have only one goal and one goal only.

For quite a savvy Politician (and she does outmaneuver a lot of her contemporaries), she's misjudged the mood of the nation in pressing for it: it's not coming from Joe Public on the street, but her own Party.

Scotland has probably one of the most distinctive cultures in Europe (in/out?), yet when you talk to some of her most ardent fanatics, you'd think, when they walk to the shop, they're screaming at the sky: this country is being Anglicised, it must stop! It's quite bizarre. Someone said to me a month or so ago: this will happen, and then we'll be free (i actually thought they were parodying) but they were talking as if they were a journalist locked up for 30 years in a Turkish prison.

Ironically enough, same person highlighted Westminster wasting money doing x,y,z, whilst palming the SNP's record, or not, in some of the places you've mentioned off as being: cos of the Tories and having to correct Certainly into Cult territory.

Even the Health Secretary here, a nutjob in every aspect, said the UK has a 'moral obligation' to provide more cash to Scotland, yet conveniently forgetting his own Party's obligation to respect a democratic vote. Go figure.

What i would say is that i don't think they're toasted bread - they're been tapping into the 'Yoof' vote and i do think they'll get a second one but probably not before 2025.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So glad I keep out of these type of threads 99% of the time.

That being said, If anyone is arranging a collection for a new keyboard for Mr. Chopley for Christmas, I'll be happy to chip in

It's alright it's a very nice mechanical keyboard with a ten year guarantee It's done seven years up to now and still going strong, and it does get the occasional 'key bash' when emulated fruit machines irritate me

 

[Webzcas]

Corsair, good make

For quite a savvy Politician (and she does outmaneuver a lot of her contemporaries), she's misjudged the mood of the nation in pressing for it: it's not coming from Joe Public on the street, but her own Party.

Scotland has probably one of the most distinctive cultures in Europe (in/out?), yet when you talk to some of her most ardent fanatics, you'd think, when they walk to the shop, they're screaming at the sky: this country is being Anglicised, it must stop! It's quite bizarre. Someone said to me a month or so ago: this will happen, and then we'll be free (i actually thought they were parodying) but they were talking as if they were a journalist locked up for 30 years in a Turkish prison.

Ironically enough, same person highlighted Westminster wasting money doing x,y,z, whilst palming the SNP's record, or not, in some of the places you've mentioned off as being: cos of the Tories and having to correct Certainly into Cult territory.

Even the Health Secretary here, a nutjob in every aspect, said the UK has a 'moral obligation' to provide more cash to Scotland, yet conveniently forgetting his own Party's obligation to respect a democratic vote. Go figure.

What i would say is that i don't think they're toasted bread - they're been tapping into the 'Yoof' vote and i do think they'll get a second one but probably not before 2025.

One point that has been overlooked, is the fact that there being a fundamental change in the UK being the reason as to why The SNP want another referendum so soon after the one that took place in 2014. It was after all meant to be a 'Once in a generation' opportunity - not my words, not in the Edinburgh agreement, but words that fell out of the mouths of Salmond and Sturgeon on the campaign trail in 2014.

This fundamental change was Brexit, when the Scottish electorate voted decisively to remain in the EU.

However, if Scexit happened in 2014, not only would Scexit cause Scotland to have exited stage left from the UK, but they would have also dragged Scotland out of the EU also

 

[sufferinsilence]

Corsair, good make

One point that has been overlooked, is the fact that there being a fundamental change in the UK being the reason as to why The SNP want another referendum so soon after the one that took place in 2014. It was after all meant to be a 'Once in a generation' opportunity - not my words, not in the Edinburgh agreement, but words that fell out of the mouths of Salmond and Sturgeon on the campaign trail in 2014.

This fundamental change was Brexit, when the Scottish electorate voted decisively to remain in the EU.

However, if Scexit happened in 2014, not only would Scexit cause Scotland to have exited stage left from the UK, but they would have also dragged Scotland out of the EU also

I prefer to call it Sexit.

Don't ask why.

 

[pinnit2014]

ANOTHER QUICK QUIZ - Who is the most patronising, condescending WANKER on this entire forum, due to the fact that he literally gets his rocks off
while "addressing" his fellow CM members like they are ALL still in fucking nursery school?

I'll give you a clue. It starts with Chopley and ends with IOM.

Fucking arsehole. Go kneel at the feet of a woman with a penis and pledge everlasting allegiance to it, you insufferable woketard.

Do you EVER look in the mirror and tell yourself "I'm really going to try hard NOT to be a total fucking bellend on the CM forum today?"

Because if you do, you fail. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Whilst i lack your balls, i do get the sentiment

I've sat and merited the SNP question, and flitted between both sides and had decent convos with people, but it's all how you present it. Unfortunately for the poster, it's a soap box for his own copy and paste agenda, not really interested in hearing other folks' opinion (as that is not the point in his posts) and it is tiresome at this point.

Even when presented with alternative view, because it's not what the Guardian Editor believes, it's side swiped.

And FYI, I voted remain and i find their posts weary-some.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Whilst i lack your balls, i do get the sentiment

I've sat and merited the SNP question, and flitted between both sides and had decent convos with people, but it's all how you present it. Unfortunately for the poster, it's a soap box for his own copy and paste agenda, not really interested in hearing other folks' opinion (as that is not the point in his posts) and it is tiresome at this point.

Even when presented with alternative view, because it's not what the Guardian Editor believes, it's side swiped.

And FYI, I voted remain and i find their posts weary-some.

When presented with alternative views I'll make a genuine attempt to assess the veracity of the claim being made and see if there's any evidence to back it up, if there isn't, or there's a strong opposing case to make, I'll do so - if you want to call that 'side swiping' then fair enough, but I'm not just going to pretend I think all viewpoints are equal when some have evidence to back them up, and some don't.

I mean, there's a literal flat earth society out there that genuinely tries to assert that the earth is flat and back it up with their 'evidence'. It's very easy to prove that the earth is not flat, I might 'hear their opinion' but I'll also 'side swipe' it away because I'll have the facts on my side.

A lot of the problem with Brexit is that it was sold by flat earthers, to be clear I'm not saying that the people who voted for Brexit believe that the earth is flat, the flat earthers who pitched Brexit looked reasonably legit in many ways, and they were making a compelling pitch, all of the upsides and none of the downsides - but it turned out that they were lying, the earth is not flat and Brexit has not, and indeed never could, deliver any of what was promised.

If there was just one single thing that Leave could point to, one single Brexit benefit, I'd be minded to think, 'OK fair enough, you got Thing X out of it, and you're prepared to take the hit on all the other stuff, I don't agree with it but it's a point of view I can understand'.

The obvious one here is immigration and the dinghies coming across the channel, (because let's be honest, this is why a lot of people voted for it once you strip away a lot of the other stuff, this thread alone is ample evidence of that), if Brexit had sorted that then I'd say, 'OK, you got that, it was important to you, fair enough'.

But it's done the exact opposite! We've got more people coming across the channel in dinghies than ever before, and we're worse off when it comes to sending them back because we lost the Dublin Regulation when we left the EU. On top of that, immigration to the UK by legal routes is now higher than it's been for years, it's just that EU migration is down, and migration is up from non-EU countries, and eclipsing the drop from EU countries in the process.

It's not my fault that the 'debate' around Brexit and its impact is so incredibly lop-sided, it's the fault of the conmen and charlatans who sold the UK an absolute pup, and who now flail around looking for anything and anyone to blame to explain away why it's all turned to shit.

And it's not just what the Guardian editor believes, it's what a majority of people in the UK, and a growing majority at that, now believe - because they can see the evidence with their own eyes.

 

[goatwack]

I mean, there was a time in history when scientists and scholars universally agreed upon the earth being flat. Who's to say modern Flat Earthers aren't simply reverting back to the truth? Flat Earth's coming home?

And has anyone here actually walked around the whole globe, or are they simply going by what 'they' want you to believe, with pictures of globes and other spherical fibs?

 

[mack341]

When presented with alternative views I'll make a genuine attempt to assess the veracity of the claim being made and see if there's any evidence to back it up, if there isn't, or there's a strong opposing case to make, I'll do so - if you want to call that 'side swiping' then fair enough, but I'm not just going to pretend I think all viewpoints are equal when some have evidence to back them up, and some don't.

I mean, there's a literal flat earth society out there that genuinely tries to assert that the earth is flat and back it up with their 'evidence'. It's very easy to prove that the earth is not flat, I might 'hear their opinion' but I'll also 'side swipe' it away because I'll have the facts on my side.

A lot of the problem with Brexit is that it was sold by flat earthers, to be clear I'm not saying that the people who voted for Brexit believe that the earth is flat, the flat earthers who pitched Brexit looked reasonably legit in many ways, and they were making a compelling pitch, all of the upsides and none of the downsides - but it turned out that they were lying, the earth is not flat and Brexit has not, and indeed never could, deliver any of what was promised.

If there was just one single thing that Leave could point to, one single Brexit benefit, I'd be minded to think, 'OK fair enough, you got Thing X out of it, and you're prepared to take the hit on all the other stuff, I don't agree with it but it's a point of view I can understand'.

The obvious one here is immigration and the dinghies coming across the channel, (because let's be honest, this is why a lot of people voted for it once you strip away a lot of the other stuff, this thread alone is ample evidence of that), if Brexit had sorted that then I'd say, 'OK, you got that, it was important to you, fair enough'.

But it's done the exact opposite! We've got more people coming across the channel in dinghies than ever before, and we're worse off when it comes to sending them back because we lost the Dublin Regulation when we left the EU. On top of that, immigration to the UK by legal routes is now higher than it's been for years, it's just that EU migration is down, and migration is up from non-EU countries, and eclipsing the drop from EU countries in the process.

It's not my fault that the 'debate' around Brexit and its impact is so incredibly lop-sided, it's the fault of the conmen and charlatans who sold the UK an absolute pup, and who now flail around looking for anything and anyone to blame to explain away why it's all turned to shit.

And it's not just what the Guardian editor believes, it's what a majority of people in the UK, and a growing majority at that, now believe - because they can see the evidence with their own eyes.

Here's a challenge Chop, instead of the emphasis on Brexit being crap etc...give us some positive things that the EU are doing that we should follow as we're currently not?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Here's a challenge Chop, instead of the emphasis on Brexit being crap etc...give us some positive things that the EU are doing that we should follow as we're currently not?

I will answer your question mack but before I do so, goodness me, is this really where we're at? Remainers now have to demonstrate to Leavers what the EU are doing that the UK is missing out on? We never wanted this, we didn't vote for it, anyone who voted remain was literally saying, 'On balance we'll stick with how things are, it might not be perfect, but it seems better to us than the alternative, and we have been persuaded enough by those who know more about it than me that there is the potential for the UK to sustain real economic damage as the result of a Leave vote'.

I'm old enough to remember when Brexiteers were telling us Remoaner types what moaning minnies we were, how great Brexit would turn out to be, and to cry some more Remoaner tears. (In this very thread, in fact. Those people have gone rather quiet now.)

You have also phrased your question somewhat disingenuously, and moved the goalposts by asking for examples of some fresh 'good' things the EU is doing, rather than using the obvious starting position of what the UK has LOST by leaving in the first place. (Which is very well documented in this thread already, and is currently kicking the crap out of the entire UK economy, whilst we also now can't send asylum seekers back to France because we lost the Dublin Regulation.)

We lost a load of stuff when we left the EU, if we haven't replaced it with anything better, or at least as good, then by definition we're in a net loss position.

Anyway, the good news is we can see what the EU is up to on this website here, in a publicly available and searchable database (so far better than, for example, the secrecy and corruption behind how the UK government awarded its corrupt multi-billion pound PPE contracts for PPE that it ended up having to set fire to because it was so crap as to be unusable).

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There's a lot there, but one that stood out to me immediately is this one, and I thought, 'What a splendid idea'. I appreciate this is a personal choice, but hopefully you can understand how it could be important to many other people.

(And by all means have a browse through, there's a lot of good stuff in there.)



Our daughter is disabled, she receives the highest component of Disability Living Allowance and Mrs Chopley is paid the full award of Carer's Allowance. We have tried travelling off island with her on three occasions now. It's a challenge, not least because her disability is 'invisible', we've had mixed experiences with the yellow and green disability lanyard she can wear to indicate she has an invisible disability, and we've all (including her) reached the conclusion that she can't do airports (or planes), it's too much for her.

As such, we've now got a plan to get a camper van and travel in that (probably still 4-5 years away from this point), so we can take our home with us, as it were. Avoid airports, not have to worry about provision/support at hotels, always have a safe quiet space, and so on.

Our intention is to try some trips to the UK first, and if successful, to travel further afield to the EU, there are many countries both Chopley Jnr and Mrs Chopley would love to see. (Mrs Chopley also has family in Italy, and she can also speak a fair bit of Spanish.)

So the European Disability Card would be great for that scenario, our daughter would have a card that we could be confident would be recognised in any EU country, and would guarantee her appropriate treatment and conditions in any EU country we travel to.

Except it won't of course. Because we won't be able to get one.

As I've said before, 'The Brexit Of Small Things', no overnight calamity, just a load of stuff getting slowly worse over time, the gradual decline of a once great country, as the rest of the EU leaves us in their rear view mirror.

 

[mack341]

I will answer your question mack but before I do so, goodness me, is this really where we're at? Remainers now have to demonstrate to Leavers what the EU are doing that the UK is missing out on? We never wanted this, we didn't vote for it, anyone who voted remain was literally saying, 'On balance we'll stick with how things are, it might not be perfect, but it seems better to us than the alternative, and we have been persuaded enough by those who know more about it than me that there is the potential for the UK to sustain real economic damage as the result of a Leave vote'.

I'm old enough to remember when Brexiteers were telling us Remoaner types what moaning minnies we were, how great Brexit would turn out to be, and to cry some more Remoaner tears. (In this very thread, in fact. Those people have gone rather quiet now.)

You have also phrased your question somewhat disingenuously, and moved the goalposts by asking for examples of some fresh 'good' things the EU is doing, rather than using the obvious starting position of what the UK has LOST by leaving in the first place. (Which is very well documented in this thread already, and is currently kicking the crap out of the entire UK economy, whilst we also now can't send asylum seekers back to France because we lost the Dublin Regulation.)

We lost a load of stuff when we left the EU, if we haven't replaced it with anything better, or at least as good, then by definition we're in a net loss position.

Anyway, the good news is we can see what the EU is up to on this website here, in a publicly available and searchable database (so far better than, for example, the secrecy and corruption behind how the UK government awarded its corrupt multi-billion pound PPE contracts for PPE that it ended up having to set fire to because it was so crap as to be unusable).

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View attachment 176449

There's a lot there, but one that stood out to me immediately is this one, and I thought, 'What a splendid idea'. I appreciate this is a personal choice, but hopefully you can understand how it could be important to many other people.

(And by all means have a browse through, there's a lot of good stuff in there.)

View attachment 176450

Our daughter is disabled, she receives the highest component of Disability Living Allowance and Mrs Chopley is paid the full award of Carer's Allowance. We have tried travelling off island with her on three occasions now. It's a challenge, not least because her disability is 'invisible', we've had mixed experiences with the yellow and green disability lanyard she can wear to indicate she has an invisible disability, and we've all (including her) reached the conclusion that she can't do airports (or planes), it's too much for her.

As such, we've now got a plan to get a camper van and travel in that (probably still 4-5 years away from this point), so we can take our home with us, as it were. Avoid airports, not have to worry about provision/support at hotels, always have a safe quiet space, and so on.

Our intention is to try some trips to the UK first, and if successful, to travel further afield to the EU, there are many countries both Chopley Jnr and Mrs Chopley would love to see. (Mrs Chopley also has family in Italy, and she can also speak a fair bit of Spanish.)

So the European Disability Card would be great for that scenario, our daughter would have a card that we could be confident would be recognised in any EU country, and would guarantee her appropriate treatment and conditions in any EU country we travel to.

Except it won't of course. Because we won't be able to get one.

As I've said before, 'The Brexit Of Small Things', no overnight calamity, just a load of stuff getting slowly worse over time, the gradual decline of a once great country, as the rest of the EU leaves us in their rear view mirror.

That looks like a good idea from the EU there, no one disabled wants to have to continuously prove their condition or inability in order to get assistance etc...when out and about.

And a good idea re the camper van, one of our neighbours sold their VW recently for about 10k.

 

[pinnit2014]

Sexit:

Wet dreams for the SNP

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[Webzcas]

The poll is based on a sample of less than 1,000 people, plus you link to The National, who no doubt will be running headlines supporting France tomorrow

Besides polls now are not relevant. Polls being run in 20 plus years time, when another referendum will likely be granted will be relevant.

 

[cncas2123]

Will park this one here to show the benefits of being part of the wonderful EU....

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[ChopleyIOM]

Will park this one here to show the benefits of being part of the wonderful EU....

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So a small number of people have done something wrong, they've been caught, and they're being punished for it. So they're doing better than we have in the UK with all the breathtakingly corrupt goings-on with Covid and PPE, which the Tories used to line the pockets of their friends and families with billions of pounds of UK taxpayer money. I'd like to see some arrests get made over that!

 

[cncas2123]

So a small number of people have done something wrong, they've been caught, and they're being punished for it. So they're doing better than we have in the UK with all the breathtakingly corrupt goings-on with Covid and PPE, which the Tories used to line the pockets of their friends and families with billions of pounds of UK taxpayer money. I'd like to see some arrests get made over that!

I am sure if there is wrong doing proven there will be arrests, just interesting that its people at the top level in the EU who have been caught with their hands in the till, I wonder how many below them are getting away with it....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Lucky then that ropey imported carcasses were never really a thing whilst we were in the EU, with all them thorough vetting processes.

Like, I dunno, little inconveniences like the horse meat scandal of 2013. I take it we'd already left the EU by then?

I recently bought the book A DECADE IN TORY and as chance would have it, this is covered in the chapter for 2013.

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[mack341]

I must admit I only read as far as the headlines at the time of the horsemeat scandal, just having a read of the 2013 guardian article google gave me. Is it really just an Owen patterson idea though, cutting inspections and testing, or an idea that has been in govt for some time?

Surely one of the main benefits or ideas of the EU market is a level playing field of standards and safety and playing by the book?

 

[dunover]

Probably a few bent Eurocraps on the take, not Greeks this time?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I must admit I only read as far as the headlines at the time of the horsemeat scandal, just having a read of the 2013 guardian article google gave me. Is it really just an Owen patterson idea though, cutting inspections and testing, or an idea that has been in govt for some time?

Surely one of the main benefits or ideas of the EU market is a level playing field of standards and safety and playing by the book?


View attachment 177186

It was a failure of the EU standards of the time, which was readily acknowledged in the aftermath of the scandal and a number of new EU rules and safeguards were brought into place. (The Wikipedia article has loads of good information if you have a read of that.)

However, the UK had indeed gutted its own ability to check on what was being imported (which was still the responsibility of member states) which made us very vulnerable to the fraud and why we suffered the most (and indeed why it was discovered in Ireland, and not the UK).

No one's ever claimed the EU was/is perfect, it's a flawed organisation in many ways, always has been and it's never going to be perfect.

There's a strange dichotomy here, because on the one hand we hear BLOODY EU IMPOSING ALL THEIR RULES AND REGULATIONS ON US but the second anything goes wrong it's BLOODY EU WHY DIDN'T THEIR RULES AND REGULATIONS STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING, THEY SHOULD HAVE ENFORCED THEM DIRECTLY IN OUR COUNTRY.

The truth is the EU never imposed much of anything on us, which I covered here, over three and a half years ago - Brexit - whats the difference..... - Page 3 - Casinomeister Forum

And even where things are 'imposed' it was always our duty as a sovereign nation to look after ourselves, which we failed to when it came to the horsemeat scandal because the Tories had gutted our inspectorate capacity.

In the meantime if there are any Brexit benefits you'd like to share, please feel free to do so, because the months just keep on rolling and we'll soon be in 2023.