Brexit - whats the difference.....

[steveh35]

A good commentary from last night.

A lot of MPs looked exhausted & emotionally wrung out tonight. They're making hellishly difficult choices under a hail of emotional & physical abuse, while the doomsday clock ticks down to midnight. No one thinks clearly in these conditions. For all our sakes, we need a time out.

We are trying to cram into three days a debate that should have begun three years ago: exploring what the options might be, what trade-offs they involve and whether they command a majority. It hardly matters any longer who's to blame: this is an insane way to decide our future.

No one *wants* another year of this, but it's more important to do this well than to do it quickly. So let's extend for a year & use the summer - & the EP elections - for a serious ventilation of the options. Citizens Assemblies, town-hall meetings, seminars for MPs - the lot.

Let's do what we should have done in the first place & open up a serious public debate, which accepts that we're choosing from imperfect alternatives - all of which (including Remain) come with costs & trade-offs. Then let's try again, refreshed & better informed, in the Autumn.

Extend??? MP's voted for article 50 two years ago they knew what was going to happen on March 29 and they voted for it, some of the baffoons in parliament seem to forget this.

The last thing we want, the EU wants or any other country is for this farce to go on, let's leave on 12 April and as a woman from Stockton On Tees said on CNN last night we take the hit but we are British and we get back up and rebuild ourselves, it's what Britain does.

 

[Gina Wild]

Britain voted to leave, so leave then without a deal, that's you voted for and this is what you should get.

 

[dunover]

A good commentary from last night.

A lot of MPs looked exhausted & emotionally wrung out tonight. They're making hellishly difficult choices under a hail of emotional & physical abuse, while the doomsday clock ticks down to midnight. No one thinks clearly in these conditions. For all our sakes, we need a time out.

We are trying to cram into three days a debate that should have begun three years ago: exploring what the options might be, what trade-offs they involve and whether they command a majority. It hardly matters any longer who's to blame: this is an insane way to decide our future.

No one *wants* another year of this, but it's more important to do this well than to do it quickly. So let's extend for a year & use the summer - & the EP elections - for a serious ventilation of the options. Citizens Assemblies, town-hall meetings, seminars for MPs - the lot.

Let's do what we should have done in the first place & open up a serious public debate, which accepts that we're choosing from imperfect alternatives - all of which (including Remain) come with costs & trade-offs. Then let's try again, refreshed & better informed, in the Autumn.

That's just it - they AREN'T making choices and none of the demonstrative votes have done much better than May's dog of a deal.

Poor MP's with their 4 months holidays a year on the public purse. Nice to see them working hard for once rather than fiddling expenses for porn channels in hotels etc.

 

[steveh35]

Britain voted to leave, so leave then without a deal, that's you voted for and this is what you should get.

If our damn stupid remain MP's would stop voting against it we could leave, the remain MP's voted to trigger article 50 we should have gone on March 29th it was written into law now 12 April is written into law this should be it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

at least we will have a democratic process where we have a say in how the country is run, what laws we want to see come in or be changed.

72 out of 34,105 we objected to.

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[dunover]

If our damn stupid remain MP's would stop voting against it we could leave, the remain MP's voted to trigger article 50 we should have gone on March 29th it was written into law now 12 April is written into law this should be it.

Yep. Hopefully that horrid little speaker won't be a hypocrite and exercise the same authority on these continuous votes to overturn the leaving date legislation already passed, as he did with May and her repeatedly trying the same deal.

 

[mack341]

Incidentally I still don't get how Scotland wants independence then wants to sign up to a club it can never leave which will dictate it's laws and rules forever.

100% agree, it's nonsensical, can only be based on hatred of being ruled by the english elite/establishment in London, they'd rather be ruled over by brussels. It's madness, we're one island and brits, and can all get along nicely, I'm 25% scottish myself but I can't stand that snp bloke in parliament, and sturgeon, yuck. There's an elite in scotland mismanaging the country themselves for years, unable to resolve the social problems, crime and drugs etc..

 

[steveh35]

Yep. Hopefully that horrid little speaker won't be a hypocrite and exercise the same authority on these continuous votes to overturn the leaving date legislation already passed, as he did with May and her repeatedly trying the same deal.

How has the house of commons with it's 326 MP's pnly just found out that the speaker can do what he wants? Did no one ever realise the power this person has?

 

[colinsunderland]

Yes, and no. The £350m is correct, but what it didn't mention was the fact that it was not a net amount and that a proportion of it came back via dev grants etc. Typical politics with lies, damn lies and statistics.

That said, it did demonstrate the stupidity of us sending billions to foreigners of which they decide to redirect some back for certain expenditure in OUR country of THEIR choice. Insane. And therein lies the 'taking back control' aspect of the argument which is undeniable.

And that is exactly my point. People were voting not having a clue exactly what they were voting on. How on earth can anyone think, putting a decision like this into the hands of people who don't know exactly what they are voting for, can end up a good thing? And lets be fair, a lot of people voting are not exactly the brightest sparks. Around the time of the vote I heard such classic reasons as 'yeah leave, get rid of all the f*cking p*kis' , 'leave, ship all the foreign c*nts back to their own country' etc etc. The second one was especially good as one person who said it is close to retirement and is wanting to emigrate to Spain to retire . Nissan workers wanting to leave, despite the fact they only have a job because we are in the EU, and the strong rumour around the plant is that they won't have jobs in 10 years time if we leave.

You understand the lies and have the intelligence to look further into the claims, then make a reasoned decision based on facts. Many people don't, or didn't bother, just believing the headlines.

 

[dunover]

72 out of 34,105 we objected to.

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View attachment 106906

And? That's 72 too many, 72 we wouldn't have had if we hadn't ceded sovereign powers to foreigners. Laws are like a continuous string of DNA and whether 1 or 72 or 350, it can turn the whole string rotten, into something else. Did this guy bother to mention to gravity or effects of any of those specific 72 laws?

 

[mack341]

72 out of 34,105 we objected to.

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View attachment 106906

yes but that is just 72 laws the uk govt/civil service objected to, not the british public, statistics will never change the core underlying democratic flaws of the EU. We can change our govt and mp's but we cannot as a voting public have the same control/protection re the EU

 

[steveh35]

And that is exactly my point. People were voting not having a clue exactly what they were voting on. How on earth can anyone think, putting a decision like this into the hands of people who don't know exactly what they are voting for, can end up a good thing? And lets be fair, a lot of people voting are not exactly the brightest sparks. Around the time of the vote I heard such classic reasons as 'yeah leave, get rid of all the f*cking p*kis' , 'leave, ship all the foreign c*nts back to their own country' etc etc. The second one was especially good as one person who said it is close to retirement and is wanting to emigrate to Spain to retire . Nissan workers wanting to leave, despite the fact they only have a job because we are in the EU, and the strong rumour around the plant is that they won't have jobs in 10 years time if we leave.

You understand the lies and have the intelligence to look further into the claims, then make a reasoned decision based on facts. Many people don't, or didn't bother, just believing the headlines.

That's another thing you hear from remainers, people did not know what they were voting for, they shouldn't have given people the vote, then they say "let's have a people's vote let them have their say".

The brick wall I am banging my head against is almost falling down.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

And? That's 72 too many, 72 we wouldn't have had if we hadn't ceded sovereign powers to foreigners. Laws are like a continuous string of DNA and whether 1 or 72 or 350, it can turn the whole string rotten, into something else. Did this guy bother to mention to gravity or effects of any of those specific 72 laws?

Yes, have a look at the Twitter thread I linked, he provides the details of all 72 of them.

 

[colinsunderland]

That's another thing you hear from remainers, people did not know what they were voting for, they shouldn't have given people the vote, then they say "let's have a people's vote let them have their say".

The brick wall I am banging my head against is almost falling down.

I disagreed with the referendum well before it happened. Nothing to do with being a leaver or remainer, just a belief that a decision like this should not be made by people who have no clue what it means. Now it has happened, now people are starting to see what it means, then people should be allowed to vote again based on actual information and facts. Doesn't change my view, it should never have happened in the first place.

 

[mack341]

And? That's 72 too many, 72 we wouldn't have had if we hadn't ceded sovereign powers to foreigners. Laws are like a continuous string of DNA and whether 1 or 72 or 350, it can turn the whole string rotten, into something else. Did this guy bother to mention to gravity or effects of any of those specific 72 laws?

I think our own politicians are just as capable of bringing in bad, unnecessary laws as the EU, you've only got to look how parliament is operating atm to lose trust in their wise governance. But at least we have the ballot box, the only effective non violent way of deciding how we're going to be governed.

We need to get shot of Theresa May asap, she's been totally deceptive for over two years...

 

[colinsunderland]

yes but that is just 72 laws the uk govt/civil service objected to, not the british public, statistics will never change the core underlying democratic flaws of the EU. We can change our govt and mp's but we cannot as a voting public have the same control/protection re the EU

So, again, which laws do you think shouldn't have been passed?

 

[Okman]

You've described their policies as 'ultra conservative' but if you went back 30 years they'd just be mainstream conservative. The liberal elite have been shifting the goal posts on the back of their political correctness project, and it seems anyone who opposes globalism [which includes a federal EU ] is labelled far right. I don't know much about their policies, I just thought she spoke a fair bit of sense in this video.

We've had our referendum and 17 million voted to leave, and I would estimate at least 40% of voters in every nation of the EU wants to leave, so that's got to be over a hundred million. I just don't see what's so good about the EU, not europe the countries, but this dictatorship with it's headquarters in brussels. According to politicians and pundits, like jeremy corbyn, the EU protects workers rights so it must have been asleep when zero hour contract jobs became widespread in the uk, you can't get something much worse for a worker than that, sheer exploitation IMO.

I don’t see where you explained how I was wrong or incorrect with what I said, instead you just told me a bunch of reasons why you don’t like the EU. You are completely allowed to have your opinions, I don’t dispute them, but by replying to me without acknowledging my statement and blaming globalist boogeymen for “shifting the goalposts” is a bit daft.

 

[Gina Wild]

What I am really curouis about is if your government does anything else than debating about brexit? Is there anything else getting done beside brexit. Because our government made some significant changes in the last two years.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

we take the hit but we are British and we get back up and rebuild ourselves, it's what Britain does.

I don't remember Boris driving around in a bus with 'WE'LL TAKE A HIT' written on the side, and that we'd have to 'rebuild' afterwards.

We had to rebuild after World War 2. This is something we've inflicted entirely on ourselves.

There has been no natural disaster, no war, no revolution, we live in times of peace and prosperity, why should there be a need to 'rebuild' anything?

 

[Gina Wild]

I don't remember Boris driving around in a bus with 'WE'LL TAKE A HIT' written on the side, and that we'd have to 'rebuild' afterwards.

We had to rebuild after World War 2. This is something we've inflicted entirely on ourselves.

There has been no natural disaster, no war, no revolution, we live in times of peace and prosperity, why should there be a need to 'rebuild' anything?

A Mp said in an interview its surviveable, maybe they should have written this on the side of the red bus.
A bus which was made in Poland from a German company

 

[thr0b]

Also, the world of 80 years ago is entirely different to the world of today. We’re truly global. The EU helps us be.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

What I am really curouis about is if your government does anything else than debating about brexit? Is there anything else getting done beside brexit. Because our government made some significant changes in the last two years.

Brexit is an absolute horror show that has sucked all the air out of the room in terms of us working to address the real issues in the UK, rather than this self-imposed psychodrama channelled through a malfunctioning parliament and a government so incompetent the scale of it can be seen from space with the naked eye.

And at the end of it we all get to be poorer. But we do get blue passports. Made in France.

 

[Gina Wild]

Brexit is an absolute horror show that has sucked all the air out of the room in terms of us working to address the real issues in the UK, rather than this self-imposed psychodrama channelled through a malfunctioning parliament and a government so incompetent the scale of it can be seen from space with the naked eye.

And at the end of it we all get to poorer. But we do get blue passports. Made in France.

This is something I really had to laugh really hard about, the blue passports, I live next to the Italian border and whenever I go to Italy I have to take my passport with me. But I never ever wasted a thought about the color of it

 

[steveh35]

I don't remember Boris driving around in a bus with 'WE'LL TAKE A HIT' written on the side, and that we'd have to 'rebuild' afterwards.

We had to rebuild after World War 2. This is something we've inflicted entirely on ourselves.

There has been no natural disaster, no war, no revolution, we live in times of peace and prosperity, why should there be a need to 'rebuild' anything?

No war?? Yugoslavia 1993, IRA 1970-1998, Urkraine vs Russia, Spain vs Catalonia. no natural disaster seriously SERIOUSLY you are saying the EU biblically stopped all natural disasters . we live in time of peace errrrm ISIS.

 

[mack341]

I don’t see where you explained how I was wrong or incorrect with what I said, instead you just told me a bunch of reasons why you don’t like the EU. You are completely allowed to have your opinions, I don’t dispute them, but by replying to me without acknowledging my statement and blaming globalist boogeymen for “shifting the goalposts” is a bit daft.

I did edit my post as I wanted to re amplify my original point regarding who, how and why the AFD was possibly being labelled/smeared as far right [ultra conservative being a euphemism of far right or beyond the pale]

The meaning of your statement as I interpreted it was there is unbiased justification [which had nothing to do with the powerful influence of liberal mainstream media] for describing their policies as extreme right, however I disagree and think that totally overlooks the power and influence of the media to determine the political spectrum, of what's acceptable and what's not.

I'm experiencing it now in the UK, where you have a experienced channel four news presenter commentating on live tv how the brexit protesters were all white skinned. He was trying to insinuate for the viewer at home that the brexit movement is racist, so he is trying to label and influence the political debate. times this agenda by 24hrs a day, 7 days a week and 365 days a year for 25 odd years across all media and you can see the power and influence it must have.