Brexit - whats the difference.....

[dunover]

But she doesn't actually say anything of any substance. She basically just rants and abuses him for a few minutes.

My comment about placating the right was in a broader sense, not this individual lady. May trying to appease the headbangers in her own ranks has a lot to answer for as to where we've ended up.

There is a parallel universe where we went for an EFTA deal three years ago, left the EU, and avoided a monstrous culture war.

Hey! She's nearly as bad as the remoaner throwing milkshake over Nigel! Well, OK, nowhere near. Of course! A BBC news website-promoted video, there you go! Any desperate clutch at Brexit negativity from the 'unbiased' anti-BBC.

If we're using the term 'headbangers' then really it should applied to the democracy deniers in the LD, Chuckup-ya-lunch party and the eco-Nazis. Perhaps somebody should remind the fools there won't be a second binary referendum and tell them to stop stringing voters along with the promise of something they cannot deliver, whether politically or legally.

 

[mack341]

Just to add I think this type of interaction between members of the public and elected representatives is healthy, the bbc probably think showing this clip puts leavers in a bad light as gobby, rude people but the elected mp ended up looking evasive which will likely be the lasting impression that people take from it.

we've got to get shot of this deranged politician, she's had her time and gone way past the use by date, have a clean brexit and perhaps use GATT 24 to continue free trade while we renegotiate a trade deal, all it takes is some good will from the EU and some common sense from our govt.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You know that GATT24 simply won't happen, right?

And how much good will do you think there is left in the EU for us at this moment in time, when we've been the nation state equivalent of a petulant child stamping its feet for the last three years?

As for common sense from the UK government, good luck with that with PM Boris Johnson at the helm.

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[dunover]

You know that GATT24 simply won't happen, right?

And how much good will do you think there is left in the EU for us at this moment in time, when we've been the nation state equivalent of a petulant child stamping its feet for the last three years?
As for common sense from the UK government, good luck with that with PM Boris Johnson at the helm.

What, and they haven't?

Let me see, the French stating that unless we give their fisherman continued access to our waters, we'll be in the backstop forever...
The Spanish trying to extort talks over Gibraltar in pretty much the same way...

petulant-feet-stamping-child

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes but they're not the ones who voted to leave, and then said we want to maintain all the benefits of being in the club whilst not following the rules or making financial contributions to the club, and their foreign secretary didn't say the rest of the EU could 'go whistle' for financial commitments already made - for example.

If you compare and contrast the behaviour of say, Donald Tusk, with much of our shower of politicians (from all sides of the political divide), it's really quite embarrassing.

 

[mack341]

You know that GATT24 simply won't happen, right?

And how much good will do you think there is left in the EU for us at this moment in time, when we've been the nation state equivalent of a petulant child stamping its feet for the last three years?

As for common sense from the UK government, good luck with that with PM Boris Johnson at the helm.

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View attachment 109116

I did say 'pehaps' and what that link implies is the sticking point is that the EU won't agree to GATT 24.

where it says "article 24 does not remove the need to strike a deal with the EU" of course it doesn't, talk about stating the blinking obvious, it's just a temporary free trade period while parties negotiate a deal, an alternative to the customs union backstop baloney theresa wants, which traps us for ever more in real terms or puts us in a very weak bargaining position.

I'm not too keen on bo jo myself, he's not been bad on brexit but I'm not impressed with his overall common sense levels, he tends to be unable to answer questions and hides behind latin quotes and historical figures.

On the left ~ right issue, the late and much respected mp tony benn despised the EU and he'd worked with the commissioners at some point and knew the inner workings, and you can't get much more left wing than tony benn...and old honest tony blair on the other hand loves the EU and wants another referendum...

 

[mack341]

Yes but they're not the ones who voted to leave, and then said we want to maintain all the benefits of being in the club whilst not following the rules or making financial contributions to the club, and their foreign secretary didn't say the rest of the EU could 'go whistle' for financial commitments already made - for example.

If you compare and contrast the behaviour of say, Donald Tusk, with much of our shower of politicians (from all sides of the political divide), it's really quite embarrassing.

I must admit I thought the other day I wonder what britain would look like with somebody like michael barnier at the helm, he looks an intelligent man, he doesn't actually look french at all, more swiss or german, and is representing the EU 's interests to the maximum, so doing a professional job but I disagree strongly with the EU'S stubborn approach as it damages the man in the street here and in europe...

I think the european politicians use to be quite canny and connected to the interests of the public but not any more, it's just an elite getting more and more powerful and domineering over the public.

 

[dunover]

Just had a nice 20 minute walk through the village, in the sunshine, and voted Brexit party. Polling station very quiet though, let's hope apathy doesn't prevail. Come on Nige!!!!!!

 

[steveh35]

Yes I just asked at the polling station if they were busy a sarky "oh rushed off our feet" the sheet in front of them had about 20 names ticked off.

A rile smile appeared on my face when I followed a sweaty smelly student into polling station as I knew I would be countering his vote, sorry student get some studying done.

 

[dunover]

Yes I just asked at the polling station if they were busy a sarky "oh rushed off our feet" the sheet in front of them had about 20 names ticked off.

A rile smile appeared on my face when I followed a sweaty smeely student into polling station as I knew I would be countering his vote, sorry student get some studying done.

That'll be a LD or Labour vote then....probably the latter.

 

[vorcirion]

Just to add I think this type of interaction between members of the public and elected representatives is healthy, the bbc probably think showing this clip puts leavers in a bad light as gobby, rude people but the elected mp ended up looking evasive which will likely be the lasting impression that people take from it.

View attachment 109115

we've got to get shot of this deranged politician, she's had her time and gone way past the use by date, have a clean brexit and perhaps use GATT 24 to continue free trade while we renegotiate a trade deal, all it takes is some good will from the EU and some common sense from our govt.

So you basically say FU to EU and now you want all kinds of benefits from EU? Umm...how about no? EU needs to take care of itself and make the best possible deals for EU members. Maybe it'll benefit the UK...maybe not.

 

[mack341]

So you basically say FU to EU and now you want all kinds of benefits from EU? Umm...how about no? EU needs to take care of itself and make the best possible deals for EU members. Maybe it'll benefit the UK...maybe not.

Fu stands for 'friends unite' I take it The EU is behaving just like a mafia gang when a member wants to leave, it tries to punish them..I think they gave japan a free trade deal and canada, why not the uk. In any case the uk govt is just as much to blame for the bad negotiations as they didn't want us to become free of the EU dictatorship technocracy, it should all have been done and dusted by now.

 

[vorcirion]

Fu stands for 'friends unite' I take it The EU is behaving just like a mafia gang when a member wants to leave, it tries to punish them..I think they gave japan a free trade deal and canada, why not the uk. In any case the uk govt is just as much to blame for the bad negotiations as they didn't want us to become free of the EU dictatorship technocracy, it should all have been done and dusted by now.

I think there are different trade goods in question. I'm all for making a trade deal with the UK as long as it's the best possible deal for the EU. EU shouldn't make any concessions to UK just 'cause you were part of the EU before.

 

[mack341]

I think there are different trade goods in question. I'm all for making a trade deal with the UK as long as it's the best possible deal for the EU. EU shouldn't make any concessions to UK just 'cause you were part of the EU before.

I'd say let's do the best possible deal for the people on both sides, we have paid for a lot of things all over europe, probably in finland british taxpayers money has been spent on things to benefit your country, not forgetting the number of brits who lost their lives liberating europe, twice. I think you have to realise we've more than paid our fair share and done our bit as a nation to help europe...

 

[ternur]

we have got some deep issues in the uk but membership of the EU is having a worsening effect on them plus it's costing us 15 billion every year, if everyone posted like vorciron there wouldn't be a forum, it's not just trolling but an intent to insult and belittle without ever actually putting forward a reasoned argument.

That number does not seem right to me. Could you be kind enough to point me to a correct source for this one?

 

[EkJR]

Anyone watching Question Time? That's whats wrong with the country.

 

[goatwack]

Bugger, I'll have to watch it on Catch Up

As for Brexit, I hope everyone was good today and voted for the Brexit Party like sensible people

 

[EkJR]

Bugger, I'll have to watch it on Catch Up

As for Brexit, I hope everyone was good today and voted for the Brexit Party like sensible people

Not a chance, SNP for me! We want to get out of this absolute omnishambles. Damage has been done.

 

[paul7388]

Bugger, I'll have to watch it on Catch Up

As for Brexit, I hope everyone was good today and voted for the Brexit Party like sensible people

Didn't vote .

I really don't care about voting all parties are the same. Only ever voted once and that was no to independence lol.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

BTW, for anyone who's a Farage basher, go and watch some of his past MEP speeches. Pretty much everything he said would happen has happened.

He told a smug Blair and Brown that not giving the UK a referendum on the Lisbon treaty would store up unrest and frustration for further down the line-correct

In 2005 he launched into Blair when Blair was talking about closer integration with the EU. Farage stated there was no appetite in the UK for this- correct

He also launched a scathing attack on Gordon Brown in 2009 for selling off our gold reserves for a pittance--again he was correct to do this.

Fundamentally, pretty much everything Farage says is to the point and very often cannot be argued against.

Farage very often gets called a snake oil salesman by those of a left Liberal persuasion. However, I'd take Farage as PM every day of the week over someone like Blair...

 

[mack341]

That number does not seem right to me. Could you be kind enough to point me to a correct source for this one?

source?? to be fair I thought that was the accepted figure, nobody has challenged it and I've used it for ages in this thread.

Obviously the figure could change each year but just looking on the national office for statistics site and it states:

"In 2016, the UK received a rebate of £5 billion. This means £13.9 billion was transferred from the UK government to the EU in official payments."
[the rebate is paid in arrears]

that 13.9 is a gross figure, the net figure then takes off more for EU public spending/schemes, however it's still £13.9 billion spent by our govt via the EU machine. That is a lot of money, 14,000 million pounds, I can't imagine how much physical cash that would look like, a warehouse full I guess, each and every year

 

[EkJR]

BTW, for anyone who's a Farage basher, go and watch some of his past MEP speeches. Pretty much everything he said would happen has happened.

He told a smug Blair and Brown that not giving the UK a referendum on the Lisbon treaty would store up unrest and frustration for further down the line-correct

In 2005 he launched into Blair when Blair was talking about closer integration with the EU. Farage stated there was no appetite in the UK for this- correct

He also launched a scathing attack on Gordon Brown in 2009 for selling off our gold reserves for a pittance--again he was correct to do this.

Fundamentally, pretty much everything Farage says is to the point and very often cannot be argued against.

Farage very often gets called a snake oil salesman by those of a left Liberal persuasion. However, I'd take Farage as PM every day of the week over someone like Blair...

Guy is playing a blinder. He is making money from this shambles. Any time he is pushed for a direct answer on a difficult subject he shys away or changes the subject...so like most politicians really!

 

[EkJR]

source?? to be fair I thought that was the accepted figure, nobody has challenged it and I've used it for ages in this thread.

Obviously the figure could change each year but just looking on the national office for statistics site and it states:

"In 2016, the UK received a rebate of £5 billion. This means £13.9 billion was transferred from the UK government to the EU in official payments."
[the rebate is paid in arrears]

that 13.9 is a gross figure, the net figure then takes off more for EU public spending/schemes, however it's still £13.9 billion spent by our govt via the EU machine. That is a lot of money, 14,000 million pounds, I can't imagine how much physical cash that would look like, a warehouse full I guess, each and every year

About enough to just about get a bonus on Legacy of Ra

 

[mack341]

Guy is playing a blinder. He is making money from this shambles. Any time he is pushed for a direct answer on a difficult subject he shys away or changes the subject...so like most politicians really!

I hear this about nige and unless I see proof I tend to think it's a smear job because he dresses like a country squire so the remainer strategists working in the Media think working class brexit voters could be persuaded to distrust him, well that I believe is the remainer's tactic behind the smears.

And it will be nothing compared to blair, what he did in his time as pm and then all the money pouring in to his pockets when he left us in the proverbial

 

[mack341]

About enough to just about get a bonus on Legacy of Ra

valletta megaways makes Ra look frequent

 

[EkJR]

I hear this about nige and unless I see proof I tend to think it's a smear job because he dresses like a country squire so the remainer strategists working in the Media think working class brexit voters could be persuaded to distrust him, well that I believe is the remainer's tactic behind the smears.

And it will be nothing compared to blair, what he did in his time as pm and then all the money pouring in to his pockets when he left us in the proverbial

Don't doubt what your saying and completely agree about other politicians but for that precise reason I don't trust Farage either not least for his views on Scotland/N Ireland and Unionism. A lot up here are sick of being unable to do anything to choose a different path.

 

[mack341]

Don't doubt what your saying and completely agree about other politicians but for that precise reason I don't trust Farage either not least for his views on Scotland/N Ireland and Unionism. A lot up here are sick of being unable to do anything to choose a different path.

yeah I understand, but that was the old divide and rule trick played on scotland and ireland, as far as I understand it [and correct me if this is far out] but a lot of protestant scots moved to northern ireland and a lot of catholic irish moved in the opposite direction to scotland, then they were at each others throat and not the english's. did the independent vote in scotland split largely down religious [kind of celtic/rangers] lines?

I think though sturgeon would instantly sell the independence to the EU so it would be a strange, short lived kind of democratic independence.

 

[EkJR]

yeah I understand, but that was the old divide and rule trick played on scotland and ireland, as far as I understand it [and correct me if this is far out] but a lot of protestant scots moved to northern ireland and a lot of catholic irish moved in the opposite direction to scotland, then they were at each others throat and not the english's. did the independent vote in scotland split largely down religious [kind of celtic/rangers] lines?

I think though sturgeon would instantly sell the independence to the EU so it would be a strange, short lived kind of democratic independence.

In the main yeah, it did split down those lines but still a number on either side voted the other way. If you look at the vote the over 55s fucked it up. There are loads of old bastards in Scotland sadly who were fed lies about their pensions! The media was a total joke around about the referendum, so one sided. Next time it will get through I think.

Yep, not overly bothered with the EU, but being a realist I can see massive issues for Scotland specifically out of the EU.

 

[ternur]

source?? to be fair I thought that was the accepted figure, nobody has challenged it and I've used it for ages in this thread.

Obviously the figure could change each year but just looking on the national office for statistics site and it states:

"In 2016, the UK received a rebate of £5 billion. This means £13.9 billion was transferred from the UK government to the EU in official payments."
[the rebate is paid in arrears]

that 13.9 is a gross figure, the net figure then takes off more for EU public spending/schemes, however it's still £13.9 billion spent by our govt via the EU machine. That is a lot of money, 14,000 million pounds, I can't imagine how much physical cash that would look like, a warehouse full I guess, each and every year

I was thinking about this since you mentioned that the EU membership is "costing us 15 billion every year". But the ONS for example gives a different figure of that cost:

"Using EC data that includes credits from the EU to UK public and private sectors, the UK’s average annual net contribution on this wider basis for the years 2012 to 2016 was £8.1 billion." [

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]

 

[mack341]

I was thinking about this since you mentioned that the EU membership is "costing us 15 billion every year". But the ONS for example gives a different figure of that cost:

"Using EC data that includes credits from the EU to UK public and private sectors, the UK’s average annual net contribution on this wider basis for the years 2012 to 2016 was £8.1 billion." [

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]

That's a net figure though, we spent 13.9 billion in 2016 with the EU, some comes back in agricultural subsidy etc.. but after brexit, if it ever happens, we might choose to spend the 13.9 differently. your figure of 8.1 net, what was the gross figure for last year if poss?

 

[mack341]

In the main yeah, it did split down those lines but still a number on either side voted the other way. If you look at the vote the over 55s fucked it up. There are loads of old bastards in Scotland sadly who were fed lies about their pensions! The media was a total joke around about the referendum, so one sided. Next time it will get through I think.

Yep, not overly bothered with the EU, but being a realist I can see massive issues for Scotland specifically out of the EU.

I quite like the old B's if they're anything like the ones portrayed in still game [the early series, the recent ones have lost something] one of my favourite comedies for a while.

 

[ternur]

That's a net figure though, we spent 13.9 billion in 2016 with the EU, some comes back in agricultural subsidy etc.. but after brexit, if it ever happens, we might choose to spend the 13.9 differently. your figure of 8.1 net, what was the gross figure for last year if poss?

Yes, a net figure is something I associate with 'cost'. That to me is the key figure, not gross. If I buy a laptop with a rebate offer of x, the cost of my laptop will be purchase price - x, yes?

 

[mack341]

Yes, a net figure is something I associate with 'cost'. That to me is the key figure, not gross. If I buy a laptop with a rebate offer of x, the cost of my laptop will be purchase price - x, yes?

the 5 billion rebate yes but the other stuff no because it is tied up or tied to Eu projects, policies, schemes etc.. otherwise the rebate would be about 10 billion hard cash.

a rebate from a shop when you buy something doesn't have any strings or directions on how you spend it, the £5 billion has no strings, so a true rebate, maybe the rest could be termed conditional.

If I amended my posts to say £8 billion net, it doesn't really paint a true picture of cost or money spent does it? If you spend money on yourself, as directed to, it's still a cost is it not?

 

[ternur]

the 5 billion rebate yes but the other stuff no because it is tied up or tied to Eu projects, policies, schemes etc.. otherwise the rebate would be about 10 billion hard cash

I think I understand what you're trying to say.

But. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not a fact that "the effect of the rebate is to reduce the amount of the UK’s monthly GNI-based payments to the EU Budget"? The actual rebate is not paid, it's deducted from the UK payments.

What is the public spending in the UK in a year, over 800 billion pounds? In light of that, is the UK contribution to the EU budget really that huge? Wasted money, nothing gained?

Overall, the UK is not even in the top 5 if we look at the net contribution per capita (of the EU budget).

I personally find the "cost of EU membership" argument lacking significant substance. I haven't been paying that much attention that I'd have a clear opinion how much this was used as selling point in the whole process.

 

[mack341]

But. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not a fact that "the effect of the rebate is to reduce the amount of the UK’s monthly GNI-based payments to the EU Budget"? The actual rebate is not paid, it's deducted from the UK payments.

It equates to the same thing though doesn't it, with sums that large it makes sense not to move 5 billion out only to then get it sent back a year later. When you've got people living in tents in underpasses, cut backs on health, new cancer treatments, schools getting knocked down, crime epidemics, the last thing you want to do is waste, lets say, 10 billion annually. You can't justify that to voters/citizens.

We do waste a lot of money in this country domestically and get poor value for money, leaving the EU won't change those longstanding issues, but it is one issue that needed fixing. The true cost of EU membership could also be higher when you factor in the mass immigration, 2 million+ extra people??? some of which will account/be responsible for that 800 billion annual expenditure, [increases in costs for housing, health, education, policing, courts, jail, fraud, and costs to the public through wage suppression etc...]

 

[ternur]

It equates to the same thing though doesn't it, with sums that large it makes sense not to move 5 billion out only to then get it sent back a year later. When you've got people living in tents in underpasses, cut backs on health, new cancer treatments, schools getting knocked down, crime epidemics, the last thing you want to do is waste, lets say, 10 billion annually. You can't justify that to voters/citizens.

We do waste a lot of money in this country domestically and get poor value for money, leaving the EU won't change those longstanding issues, but it is one issue that needed fixing. The true cost of EU membership could also be higher when you factor in the mass immigration, 2 million+ extra people??? some of which will account/be responsible for that 800 billion annual expenditure, [increases in costs for housing, health, education, policing, courts, jail, fraud, and costs to the public through wage suppression etc...]

So you're adamant that the EU budget contribution (and membership overall) is a total waste?

All countries have the same problems. Leaving the EU might not make any difference on dealing with those issues. More likely things could get worse (at least in the short run). Time will tell I guess.

 

[mack341]

So you're adamant that the EU budget contribution (and membership overall) is a total waste?

All countries have the same problems. Leaving the EU might not make any difference on dealing with those issues. More likely things could get worse (at least in the short run). Time will tell I guess.

It would be unfair to say a total waste as I'm not an expert but it's not going back into the areas where we're struggling, that could be the uk's fault though.

When you live in the south east and follow the national and local news, the sense of a growing chaos and break down in social order is real, currently we have an open borders policy with the rest of europe, 700 milion odd people, and being a small island that already suffers from bad governance, it just doesn't work and the overall quality of life is declining as you'd expect when the population density increases up to high levels.

Apparently Finland's density is 16 people per km2 whereas Englands is 424, so that might explain some of the issues we have with an open borders policy...it's inevitable at some point people would object. Add on top the money concerns, democracy flaws in the EU structure and the EU's future aims of further federalisation/centralisation of power and you have the UK's referendum result.

 

[mack341]

To be fair I'll amend any future posts to simply 'costs us billions' of pounds, if it's not 15 billion then I can't use that figure. The cost to the other countries, of their contribution, could go up after we leave unless the EU cuts its spending.

If the cost to the uk had been say 2 billion annually and some sort of migration quota was in place so that the 'ins' had to match the 'outs' and the population stayed stable we may have voted to remain; to brits it's all about balance and common sense in the end, and we intrinsically dislike remote, bossy politicians like theresa may telling us what's best for us.

 

[steveh35]

Now that the PM has resigned and it will take until July to get a new PM then the summer recess and party conferences how on earth can the UK hope to leave by 31 October?

 

[paul7388]

Now that the PM has resigned and it will take until July to get a new PM then the summer recess and party conferences how on earth can the UK hope to leave by 31 October?

They will not leave this year if they leave at all.

All the leave voters think it is great that May has left. But all her leaving is doing is messing things up even more. Chances are Boris will get the job and he is happy to have a no deal brexit. Should have left in March now earliest they can even have talks on Brexit is July after new PM is voted in. Really can not see how Brexit voters can think any of this is good.

But not enough support so looks like only way he could get it is to have a general election. And i can see it eventually going pack to a public vote on whether we leave or not.

 

[paul7388]

In the main yeah, it did split down those lines but still a number on either side voted the other way. If you look at the vote the over 55s fucked it up. There are loads of old bastards in Scotland sadly who were fed lies about their pensions! The media was a total joke around about the referendum, so one sided. Next time it will get through I think.

Yep, not overly bothered with the EU, but being a realist I can see massive issues for Scotland specifically out of the EU.

Lol i actually thought the media up here were actually more one sided towards independence. There were plenty of lies on both sides and most pensioners did not vote because of pensions the older generation mainly are proud to be part of UK and remember parents etc. fighting for the country.

I do not even think there will be another vote. Sturgeon knows having lost majority in Scotland that she has one more crack at it and if she does not get a referendum by next elections in 2021 she will not have power to push it through.

Besides there is no indication anywhere that the outcome would be different . She knows that or she would have applied for one by now. She has openly stated she needs to try drum up enough support to show that Westminister cannot refuse. Fact she has stated that shows she knows damn well that it is a gamble having another referendum as if she loses there will not be another one in a long time. She is not in the position yet to take that gamble.

 

[goatwack]

“It is and will always remain a matter of deep regret to me that I have not been able to deliver Brexit.”

Yeah thanks for your watch Theresa, close the door on your way out. And don't nick any towels either

 

[paul7388]

“It is and will always remain a matter of deep regret to me that I have not been able to deliver Brexit.”

Yeah thanks for your watch Theresa, close the door on your way out. And don't nick any towels either

Hope she takes that cat with her

 

[steveh35]

“It is and will always remain a matter of deep regret to me that I have not been able to deliver Brexit.”

Yeah thanks for your watch Theresa, close the door on your way out. And don't nick any towels either

Time for Dunover to become the prime minister

 

[goatwack]

Dunover'd sort Brexit out in 15 minutes flat

 

[dunover]

Lol i actually thought the media up here were actually more one sided towards independence. There were plenty of lies on both sides and most pensioners did not vote because of pensions the older generation mainly are proud to be part of UK and remember parents etc. fighting for the country.

I do not even think there will be another vote. Sturgeon knows having lost majority in Scotland that she has one more crack at it and if she does not get a referendum by next elections in 2021 she will not have power to push it through.

Besides there is no indication anywhere that the outcome would be different . She knows that or she would have applied for one by now. She has openly stated she needs to try drum up enough support to show that Westminister cannot refuse. Fact she has stated that shows she knows damn well that it is a gamble having another referendum as if she loses there will not be another one in a long time. She is not in the position yet to take that gamble.

And the Scots (a quite conservative small-c country up until the 50's) have started electing Tory MP's again? 11 or 12 in the last GE. Odd.

 

[paul7388]

And the Scots (a quite conservative small-c country up until the 50's) have started electing Tory MP's again? 11 or 12 in the last GE. Odd.

Think it was the case they were voted in as a way of voting against SNP. Sort of cut their own throats up here. Overall votes of others against SNP were clear majority. But as votes were split between Labour and Conservative it led to SNP still winning more seats tho not getting an overall majority tho Green party up here should name themselves SNP.

But it showed her that she was losing seats. There was not that surge to show that people do want independence hence the reason she is trying to drum up support. But even the polls show there is no more interest now than the last one.

Interesting thing is that Brexit vote had turnover of about 72% voters voting. Referendum up here was 87% a British Record as people knew that all independence supporters would vote so to stop it the No voters needed to vote as well. Whereas EU vote a lot thought it would be clear cut remain. Would be interesting to know what result would have been with 87% of eligible voters voting.

 

[EkJR]

And the Scots (a quite conservative small-c country up until the 50's) have started electing Tory MP's again? 11 or 12 in the last GE. Odd.

Let's hope it's the last of that sort of madness!

 

[goatwack]

Michael Gove's entered the race eh

Anything has to be better than 'Simple Jack' Boris Johnson. We'll know if Britain's lost its mind were he to become leader

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Michael Gove's entered the race eh

Anything has to be better than 'Simple Jack' Boris Johnson. We'll know if Britain's lost its mind were he to become leader

You mean the Gove that facilitated the disastrous May tenure by stabbing his mate Boris in the back at the last leadership election?

The same Gove that stuck by May's side throughout her championing of that disastrous surrender WA 'deal'?

Brexit is over if Gove wins the leadership race.

Even more fundamental, he seems to be toxic to the electorate in general reading around the various online newspaper comment sections. The word snake is used a lot.

If the Tories stand any chance of winning the next election they have to get this right. It has to be someone who is 1) competent 2) not quite as duplicitous as we've become accustomed to and 3) believes that we can succeed outside of the EU (fully)