Brexit - whats the difference.....

This seems fine, Downing Street tried to ban reporters from certain publications from attending a press briefing.

Fortunately the response from the press was for every single reporter to walk out, hence the briefing did not happen.

These are scary tactics from the government, and why are they scared of scrutiny if Brexit is supposed to be so fantastic?

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This seems fine, Downing Street tried to ban reporters from certain publications from attending a press briefing.

Fortunately the response from the press was for every single reporter to walk out, hence the briefing did not happen.

These are scary tactics from the government, and why are they scared of scrutiny if Brexit is supposed to be so fantastic?

View attachment 122505
Lol:lolup: at Jonathan Lis, show me a journalist who cares about rules, democracy or accountability and privacy.

Typical journalists throwing their toys out of the pram when someone tells them to do they don't like.
 
Yes it's just the freedom of the press being constrained by the UK government, no problem at all considering we've just left the EU to, erm, get our freedom back as a nation state and all that.
 
Yes it's just the freedom of the press being constrained by the UK government, no problem at all considering we've just left the EU to, erm, get our freedom back as a nation state and all that.
Don’t worry Cummings is playing the press and media like a fiddle. The man is a genius
 
Yes it's just the freedom of the press being constrained by the UK government, no problem at all considering we've just left the EU to, erm, get our freedom back as a nation state and all that.
The press have no freedom of the people they harrass, the press thinks it can stick its nose into anybody's business and they use the journalism card as an excuse.
 
So who exactly is supposed to hold the government to account then?

Is this what Brexit looks like? The UK government pivots to Soviet style suppression of information and the ability of the population to learn about what it's up to?

What exactly was it we were supposed to be taking back control of?

What happened today is significant, the only good news is that the press responded as a single body and refused to engage with the attempt to suppress them, therefore they all walked out, including journalists from very right wing publications such as The Telegraph.
 
Apparently boris invited journalists from the major media organisations for an extra briefing and uninvited journalists tried to attend this also.

The invited included "BBC, ITV, Daily Mail, Guardian, The Sun, Sky News, and The Times " [guido fawkes site] so there was plenty of remain bias there to question boris regarding brexit.

He will want to use the media as an additional indirect way of talking to the EU for these trade deal negotiations, it's easier for him to talk in detail with 7 outlets than 20, that's my reading of it, pr and media management.
 
Expect lots, lots more of this sort of stuff over the next year.

Also watch as the Leave side tries to blame the EU every single step of way, as the contradictions that have been inherent in the Leave position all along come to the fore.

Remember, we've done the easy bit of Brexit, the tough stuff is still to come.

Does this really surprise you then?
 
"An invitation sent out by Number 10 offered a “technical background briefing” on the PM’s plans to negotiate a Canadian-style free trade agreement with the EU by the end of the year. " [from the independent online]

So it is an important briefing, the message and reporting of the plans needs to be clear and on the button, this isn't about press freedom imo, the press are entirely free to report and comment on the plans the following day, they will have read them at the same time we do though.

[They might be rightly pissed off commercially/professionally as the chosen titles have effectively an exclusive or early press release compared to them]
 
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Does this really surprise you then?

It doesn't surprise me at all :) We've got a pathological liar, cheat, and charlatan as our Prime Minister - but the thing with liars is, of course, that eventually they get found out.

(I mean, he's literally been sacked twice for lying, and agreed to hand over a journalist's details to Darius Guppy so that Guppy could arrange to have the journalist beaten up by his stooges.)

 
According to Guido extra briefings with an inner lobby have happened before

" "This is not the first time this has happened, nor the first time that Downing Street has favoured selected hacks from the so-called “inner Lobby”. This has happened under previous administrations. "

I think they must have done under blair and cameron, both were very close to murdoch.
 
It doesn't surprise me at all :) We've got a pathological liar, cheat, and charlatan as our Prime Minister - but the thing with liars is, of course, that eventually they get found out.

(I mean, he's literally been sacked twice for lying, and agreed to hand over a journalist's details to Darius Guppy so that Guppy could arrange to have the journalist beaten up by his stooges.)



I agree his overall record and behaviour is patchy especially the Guppy story, but even if a straight man like David Davis was negotiating would you be much happier? He also wants a canada style free trade deal.

I think Boris is a better persuader, a bit of a force of nature, with an optimistic outlook on life, and is much more likely to gain concessions from the EU.
 
Not seeing the big issue either with the press (lack of) invitations.

The Guardian was a pro remain paper and was invited so this has nothing to do with inviting the outlets that only support the government.

Of course, the anti government, pro remain, snowflakey fruitloops will blow it into a big thing about an upcoming dictatorship, but then it's to be expected as they never stop bleating. Like one of those annoying flies that keep buzzing around you whilst you're trying to eat.

If just a fraction of some of these people's predictions had come true, we'd all be living in cardboard boxes, jobless and having to pay £10 for a pint of milk by now.
 
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Also pretty fishy that no deal has now been re branded as an 'Australian deal'
No deal is clearly where we are headed, gov already switching to the victim narrative by blaming the EU expect a lot more of this throughout the year.

Kuenssberg has suddenly realized she's a journalist and should be holding these crooks to account instead of being their cheerleader, bit late now that they already have their hooks around the country's balls.
 
Also pretty fishy that no deal has now been re branded as an 'Australian deal'
No deal is clearly where we are headed, gov already switching to the victim narrative by blaming the EU expect a lot more of this throughout the year.

Kuenssberg has suddenly realized she's a journalist and should be holding these crooks to account instead of being their cheerleader, bit late now that they already have their hooks around the country's balls.

The only crooks are remainers who want the country to fail have nothing positive to say about the country.
 
Also pretty fishy that no deal has now been re branded as an 'Australian deal'
No deal is clearly where we are headed, gov already switching to the victim narrative by blaming the EU expect a lot more of this throughout the year.

Kuenssberg has suddenly realized she's a journalist and should be holding these crooks to account instead of being their cheerleader, bit late now that they already have their hooks around the country's balls.


Who would've expected that??? :D
 
They are now calling no deal’ ‘the Australian deal’ seems like it’s becoming more of a reality which is excellent news, WTO is what I voted for.

Really? Because absolutely no one on the Leave campaign was suggesting anything even remotely like that at the time of the referendum.
 
I think best thing to keep everyone tickety-boo would be to simply ignore the last four years altogether, chalk it up to a 'woopsie' moment

I for one am fervently campaigning to get us back in

#Bre-entry
 
At the risk of stating the obvious.....

Of course, this is definitely what people voted for when every single prominent Leave campaigner was promising us 'the easiest trade deal in history' and probably one that was better than we enjoyed as an EU member.

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Not a big fan of the bbc but this is fairly balanced for once

The EU's second condition is a free-trade deal must include an agreement on fisheries - because UK fishing waters are among the best in Europe.

...talk in government circles of frictionless trade has gone. The UK now accepts that will not be possible outside the EU single market and customs union.


-------------

I'm beginning to feel we're not in such a weak negotiating position as theresa may and the media made out for the last 3 years.

It's the EU exporters to britain that will not like tariffs and controls being introduced, which is the one threat the EU seem to fall back on.
 
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Not a big fan of the bbc but this is fairly balanced for once

The EU's second condition is a free-trade deal must include an agreement on fisheries - because UK fishing waters are among the best in Europe.

...talk in government circles of frictionless trade has gone. The UK now accepts that will not be possible outside the EU single market and customs union.


-------------

I'm beginning to feel we're not in such a weak negotiating position as theresa may and the media made out for the last 3 years.

It's the EU exporters to britain that will not like tariffs and controls being introduced, which is the one threat the EU seem to fall back on.

We were never in a weak position, as you rightly point out.

I watched some results analysis from the referendum result the other night. In one clip I saw a former advisor to Cameron interviewed. He said that Cameron ignored his advice not to go for project fear and instead run a positive campaign. Apparently, Cameron didn't listen and we got the result we did.

Project fear has proved all along the way to have the opposite effect to what it's intended for and remainers STILL to this day haven't had the penny drop.

The issue with employing fear tactics is the more these apocalyptic warnings don't come to fruition, the more they're ignored in future.
 
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Not a big fan of the bbc but this is fairly balanced for once

The EU's second condition is a free-trade deal must include an agreement on fisheries - because UK fishing waters are among the best in Europe.

...talk in government circles of frictionless trade has gone. The UK now accepts that will not be possible outside the EU single market and customs union.


-------------

I'm beginning to feel we're not in such a weak negotiating position as theresa may and the media made out for the last 3 years.

It's the EU exporters to britain that will not like tariffs and controls being introduced, which is the one threat the EU seem to fall back on.

We were never in a weak position, as you rightly point out.

I watched some results analysis from the referendum result the other night. In one clip I saw a former advisor to Cameron interviewed. He said that Cameron ignored his advice not to go for project fear and instead run a positive campaign. Apparently, Cameron didn't listen and we got the result we did.

Project fear has proved all along the way to have the opposite effect to what it's intended for and remainers STILL to this day haven't had the penny drop.

The issue with employing fear tactics is the more these apocalyptic warnings don't come to fruition, the more they're ignored in future.

Sorry, but your posts made me chuckle. You all sound more and more like the boxer sitting in a corner after round two and having been sent to the floor already twice, has one eye bleeding in his swollen face but keeps shouting: "I can beat him" :rolleyes:

Do you really think it is now all about the UK showing its new prowess and that everyone has to be beaten, no matter the damage?

From what I read, Johnson wants a sweetheart deal where he gets all access to the EU but does not need to adhere to the standards of the EU. What cuckoo fantasyland is your PM living in? :rolleyes:

You can always go to the WTO rule-based trading, and that right now. No need for another year of British theatrics and tantrums.
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Really? Because absolutely no one on the Leave campaign was suggesting anything even remotely like that at the time of the referendum.
Oh well.
looks like no deal is becoming more and more of a reality mate.
get trump extended and have no deal and I’d say it’s a most awesome corbyn neutral year.
 
We were never in a weak position, as you rightly point out.

I watched some results analysis from the referendum result the other night. In one clip I saw a former advisor to Cameron interviewed. He said that Cameron ignored his advice not to go for project fear and instead run a positive campaign. Apparently, Cameron didn't listen and we got the result we did.

Project fear has proved all along the way to have the opposite effect to what it's intended for and remainers STILL to this day haven't had the penny drop.

The issue with employing fear tactics is the more these apocalyptic warnings don't come to fruition, the more they're ignored in future.

Very true.

Project fear got my back up, one it was defeatist and two it was put across in the form of very basic propaganda that you could spot a mile off if you've been around the block a bit.

But maybe Cameron etc just couldn't think of enough positives about being an EU member :p
 
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Sorry, but your posts made me chuckle. You all sound more and more like the boxer sitting in a corner after round two and having been sent to the floor already twice, has one eye bleeding in his swollen face but keeps shouting: "I can beat him" :rolleyes:

Do you really think it is now all about the UK showing its new prowess and that everyone has to be beaten, no matter the damage?

From what I read, Johnson wants a sweetheart deal where he gets all access to the EU but does not need to adhere to the standards of the EU. What cuckoo fantasyland is your PM living in? :rolleyes:

You can always go to the WTO rule-based trading, and that right now. No need for another year of British theatrics and tantrums. View attachment 122636

Boris wants a canada style deal but the EU are frightened to offer that


BBC: Is the EU trying to make the UK a special case?

Yes and no.

On the one hand, almost all trade agreements involve level playing field provisions, because all parties are keen to ensure their businesses aren't operating at a commercial disadvantage.

And the closer a trading relationship is, the stricter those rules become.

But the EU is also taking other factors into account - notably, that the UK is one of the world's largest economies and is right on its doorstep.

Given the "geographic proximity and economic interdependence" of the two sides, it says, the future relationship must include "robust commitments to ensure a level playing field".

What this means in practice is if the UK wants a trade deal that involves zero tariffs (no taxes on goods crossing borders) and zero quotas (no limits on the amount of goods that can be traded), the EU will expect it to sign up to stricter rules than those set out in other recent EU trade agreements with countries such as Canada or Japan.

It's because there is far more trade involved and the stakes are higher
.

[:confused::confused: not sure what these stakes are, perhaps the uk being seen to prosper after leaving the EU is something they're keen to avoid happening]
 
Boris wants a canada style deal but the EU are frightened to offer that


BBC: Is the EU trying to make the UK a special case?

Yes and no.

On the one hand, almost all trade agreements involve level playing field provisions, because all parties are keen to ensure their businesses aren't operating at a commercial disadvantage.

And the closer a trading relationship is, the stricter those rules become.

But the EU is also taking other factors into account - notably, that the UK is one of the world's largest economies and is right on its doorstep.

Given the "geographic proximity and economic interdependence" of the two sides, it says, the future relationship must include "robust commitments to ensure a level playing field".

What this means in practice is if the UK wants a trade deal that involves zero tariffs (no taxes on goods crossing borders) and zero quotas (no limits on the amount of goods that can be traded), the EU will expect it to sign up to stricter rules than those set out in other recent EU trade agreements with countries such as Canada or Japan.

It's because there is far more trade involved and the stakes are higher. [:confused::confused: not sure what these stakes are, perhaps the uk being seen to prosper after leaving the EU is something they're keen to avoid happening]

Yes, remainers actively support the EU 'looking after its interests' but the UK doesn't get the same support from them. Just why is this?
 
[:confused::confused: not sure what these stakes are, perhaps the uk being seen to prosper after leaving the EU is something they're keen to avoid happening]

But this can't be right can it? The EU are such an altruistic and benevolent institution, why ever would they want to see another country struggle?

Besides, if the UK is such a weak basket case as people keep suggesting, what have the EU to fear?
 
It's going to be an interesting few years anyway where the EU is concerned. It is walking a tightrope with these negotiations and has much much more to lose than the UK does. If another country decides to leave the 'club' then the writing is on the wall for EU.
 
Boris wants a canada style deal but the EU are frightened to offer that


BBC: Is the EU trying to make the UK a special case?

Yes and no.

On the one hand, almost all trade agreements involve level playing field provisions, because all parties are keen to ensure their businesses aren't operating at a commercial disadvantage.

And the closer a trading relationship is, the stricter those rules become.

But the EU is also taking other factors into account - notably, that the UK is one of the world's largest economies and is right on its doorstep.

Given the "geographic proximity and economic interdependence" of the two sides, it says, the future relationship must include "robust commitments to ensure a level playing field".

What this means in practice is if the UK wants a trade deal that involves zero tariffs (no taxes on goods crossing borders) and zero quotas (no limits on the amount of goods that can be traded), the EU will expect it to sign up to stricter rules than those set out in other recent EU trade agreements with countries such as Canada or Japan.

It's because there is far more trade involved and the stakes are higher
.

[:confused::confused: not sure what these stakes are, perhaps the uk being seen to prosper after leaving the EU is something they're keen to avoid happening]


Shiver me timbers! :rolleyes:

Absolute nonsense mack. Nobody is scared, not in the slightest.

I don't know why you Brits always try to paint EU people as shysters, scaredy-cats etc etc. Do you really need that to pep up your ego with such nonsense? :confused:

All they do is pursue what your PM is doing, trying to get the best deal for their side. Nothing new, nothing special, and certainly nothing to be scared off.
 
Yes, remainers actively support the EU 'looking after its interests' but the UK doesn't get the same support from them. Just why is this?

It's probably viewed in their minds as racist to reasonably support the uk looking after its own interests over and above those of the EU. :rolleyes:

The left and liberal in this country have lost their marbles, as they also have in the US too.
They've marginalised themselves by focusing on marginal identity issues, it's quite comical but also sad to watch. As effectively political debate has become largely abstract to the daily concerns of the majority listening.
 
Shiver me timbers! :rolleyes:

Absolute nonsense mack. Nobody is scared, not in the slightest.

I don't know why you Brits always try to paint EU people as shysters, scaredy-cats etc etc. Do you really need that to pep up your ego with such nonsense? :confused:

All they do is pursue what your PM is doing, trying to get the best deal for their side. Nothing new, nothing special, and certainly nothing to be scared off.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

They will be extremely twitchy going forward and mindful of the fact that momentum towards more countries leaving could pick up really quite quickly.

On a side note, the amount of Germans I've seen in the comments sections of various platforms, saying they wish they could leave the EU and congratulating the UK etc is really quite surprising. I guess there must be a bit of a Eurosceptic movement over there.
 
Shiver me timbers! :rolleyes:

Absolute nonsense mack. Nobody is scared, not in the slightest.

I don't know why you Brits always try to paint EU people as shysters, scaredy-cats etc etc. Do you really need that to pep up your ego with such nonsense? :confused:

All they do is pursue what your PM is doing, trying to get the best deal for their side. Nothing new, nothing special, and certainly nothing to be scared off.

Sorry Harry I couldn't resist slipping that in, I knew it might trigger a reaction or two :D ...ahh I miss our old sparring sessions from the NK thread :p

edit: but that is what the bbc are hinting at, and they have always been pro EU and big on remaining, frightened could be replaced by 'concerned about the consequences'
 
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I disagree wholeheartedly.

They will be extremely twitchy going forward and mindful of the fact that momentum towards more countries leaving could pick up really quite quickly.

On a side note, the amount of Germans I've seen in the comments sections of various platforms, saying they wish they could leave the EU and congratulating the UK etc is really quite surprising. I guess there must be a bit of a Eurosceptic movement over there.

Germany: over 80 million people
Posts in your forums: 100 people
Percentage: 0.000125%
Posts in your forums: 1,000 people
Percentage: 0.00125%

Yeah sure, everyone heading for the door...NOT :rolleyes:

Geez, in every EU country you have a few Farages. That does not necessarily reflect what the majority thinks.

Nobody is going to be "twitchy", negotiating a trade deal is not something new, they just closed those with Japan, China and Canada, two of them you could compare somewhat to the UK. Did you hear anywhere, anytime, anything in the news that anyone was "twitchy"?....gimme a break. :rolleyes:
 
from the European council on foreign relations in 2013 [a charity think tank with a lot of clout it seems]

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It was once seen as a British disease. But Euroscepticism has now spread across the continent like a virus. As data from Eurobarometer shows, trust in the European project has fallen even faster than growth rates. Since the beginning of the euro crisis, trust in the European Union has fallen from +10 to -22 percent in France, from +20 to -29 percent in Germany, from +30 to -22 percent in Italy, from +42 to -52 percent in Spain, from +50 to +6 percent in Poland, and from -13 to -49 percent in the United Kingdom.

What is so striking is that everyone in the EU has been losing faith in the project: both creditors and debtors, and eurozone countries, would-be members, and “opt-outs”. Back in 2007, people thought that the UK, which scored -13 percent in trust, was the Eurosceptic outlier. Now, remarkably, the four largest eurozone countries have even lower levels of trust in the EU institutions than Britain did back in 2007. So what is going on?

.... If sovereignty is understood as the capacity of the people to decide what they want for their country, few in either the north or the south today feel that they are sovereign. A substantial part of democracy has vanished at the national level but it has not been recreated at the European level.

Is the rise of anti-EU populism here to stay? The hope is that as growth picks up, Euroscepticism will weaken and eventually recede. But the collapse of trust in the EU runs deeper than that. Enthusiasm for the EU will not return unless the EU profoundly changes the way it deals with its member states and its citizens.

Germany

Germans see themselves as the victims of the euro crisis. They feel they have been betrayed and fear that they will be asked to pay higher taxes or accept higher levels of inflation in order to save the euro. But the jury is still out in Germany on the EU itself. The Eurobarometer data shows that 56 percent of Germans have “no trust” in the EU while only 30 percent have a “fairly positive” image of the EU. At the same time, however, populism has so far been contained: the mainstream political parties all support the euro and recent polls show that three quarters of Germans are against leaving the euro. A new anti-euro party, Alternative for Germany, has just been set up but is so far projected to get at most two percent of the vote in September’s general election. Germans may not love the euro anymore but that does not mean they want to leave it.


Edit: just as an extra follow on point from that prediction of a 2% vote share for AFD in 2013, by the 2017 election they won 12.6% of the vote and received 94 seats via the proportional representation system, so that is a pretty significant growth in votes. Reflected on the back of this increase, I'd expect euroscepticsm has also grown.
 
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Ah, the centre right-wing party that moved to a more populist, alt-right view over the years. One of its views on the
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: "Germans are the only people in the world who plant a monument of shame in the heart of the capital" and criticized the "laughable policy of coming to terms with the past". According to the party, Germany should make a "180 degree" turn with regard to its sense of national pride.

Furthermore, it describes German national identity as under threat both from European integration and from the presence and accommodation of immigrants and refugees within Germany; its anti-immigration message is often articulated in this way, especially with regard to Islam.

In the same vein, the party is against same-sex marriage and also against adoption for same-sex couples.

Fortunately, the majority of Germans have no connection whatsoever to this party.
 
But if they are the main anti EU party in germany [ on wikipedia it says the AFD are prepared to accept the EU as it stands, they do not want any further political integration, but they don't want to leave either]
they will pick up votes for that alone.

If the main german conservative party, not sure who that is :oops:, are viewed as too centre or left, it will drive some voters away. It happened in the UK with ukip, slowly attracting conservative voters, it could happen with this AFD party, I believe the leader is a lesbian, and she is quite telegenic, doesn't come across as a headbanger

 
A very good piece by Chris Grey, suggesting that Brexiters need to 'Stop campaigning and start governing'.

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--------------------

To take an example from this week. Hardly had the celebrations ended than
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that the EU had “reneged” on its commitments to strike a ‘Canada- style’ free trade deal by now insisting on ‘Level Playing Field’ (LPF) commitments in terms of state aid, workers’ rights, environmental standards and so on. But that this was the EU’s position
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and, more importantly, was set out in
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(paragraph 77) that Johnson himself signed. It’s this kind of constant gaslighting that would need to stop.


There’s more to it than that, though. Suppose that it were true that the EU had hardened its position, or suppose that it does, indeed, harden position in the coming months. In that case: welcome to the real world – there’s no point in having a foot-stamping,
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tantrum. This is what Brexit means. This is what you wanted. The UK is now a third country with respect to the EU, which will pursue what it judges to be its own interests and those of its member states. Britain is no longer a member state, and the EU will, quite properly, have no regard for our interests.

It seems strange to have to remind Brexiters that the EU is not some cuddly, kind uncle, showering largesse upon the world. It is ruthless in pursuit and protection of its own interests. So too will be the US, or Japan, or China, or India, or any other country with which the UK seeks to made trade deals, including ‘cosy’ Australia, New Zealand and Canada.
 
Good morning fellow CM posters, this morning the UK has woken to stormy conditions I would like to point out this is not brexit related and the storm will soon pass in fact the mighty independent UK will push the storm into Europe and our shores will be left calm and sunny by Tuesday.
 

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