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Bonus problem with kerching casino

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by akrus88, Mar 10, 2013.

    Mar 10, 2013
  1. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    Hi all, little problem with Kerchingcasino. Just wanted to inform you about this
    and allso ask your opinion.

    I deposited 30€ and thought bonus is credited to my balance right away(pre wager),
    not after I have wagered the bonus (after wager)
    Here you go with the bonus rules:

    "http://www.kerchingcasino.com/images/terms-and-conditions/Sign-Up-Bonus.html"

    Bonus problem with kerching casino: kerching bonus rules.jpg,Mar 10, 2013


    I dont know if I'm blind but could you help me to find where it says the bonus it says bonus is after wager?
    One automatically assumes bonuses are pre wager, if nothing else is mentioned. Or am I the only who assumes so?


    I right to ask from live chat about this, but that did not helped much.

    I know that is really small ammount of money, but it is about princible.




    And here is a really long chat conversation allso :D..

    Moomie Choudhury: Hi, my name is Moomie Choudhury. How may I help you?
    x: It says "non withdrawable bonus balance 30€" but it dont show in my balance when I open a game
    Moomie Choudhury: the bonus has been added to your Non Withdrawable and non-playable bonus funds - as you wager your funds on applicable games, the system will keep track of how much you have played. To obtain the whole lot you need to wager thirty times your original deposit, the cash is released when 100% of the wagering requirement is met.
    x: okey.. But it does not say anywhere on the "100% sign up bonus" site, that it is non-playable.
    x: Or maybe I should look closer :I
    Moomie Choudhury: have you read the terms and conditions?
    Moomie Choudhury: as it is mentioned in there
    x: Yes I'm reading them right now.
    x: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Moomie Choudhury: its ok i have my own copy
    x: Once you have deposited, you will receive a 100% cash match in bonus funds up to a maximum of £100. These funds are non-withdrawable. To convert the bonus into cash, customers must stake an amount equal to at least thirty (30) times their bonus. For example, where you deposit £10, you will receive a £10 bonus. To convert this to cash you must stake (total combined wagers) £300 on the selected games.
    x: Where is it stated that the bonus funds are non withdrawable?
    x: it only says non-withdrawable..
    Moomie Choudhury: well that'll be it then wouldn't it
    x: What the??
    x: That is most definately not same as non-playable :D
    Moomie Choudhury: in order to play with it or withdraw it you must convert it into cash.
    Moomie Choudhury: and to do that you need to wager 30x times your bonus amount.
    x: Still it does not state anywhere on these terms that bonus is non-playble..
    Moomie Choudhury: in order to play with it or withdraw it you must convert it into cash.
    Moomie Choudhury: and to do that you need to wager 30x times your bonus amount.
    x: Ofcourse I assume that if it staites "you will receive 100% first deposit bonus" I assume that will show in my acccount balance right away, in the execption if it says the bonus is non-playable.
    x: but if you are not gonna change your mind about this. No need to argue :))
    Moomie Choudhury: as in convert the bonus for you?
    x: No, as in give the bonus as playable, but I'd need to wager it before beeing able to withdraw.
    Moomie Choudhury: if that is what you are requesting unfortunately that will not be possible,
    x: okey. Thank you for your assistance.
    x: Could you be kind and send this chat to my email, if that is possible?
    Moomie Choudhury: unfortunately not.
    Moomie Choudhury: Is there anything else I can help you with?
    Moomie Choudhury has disconnected.
     
  2. Mar 10, 2013
  3. SirWegs

    SirWegs Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Stockholm
    It doesnt say that the bonus is playable either. It says your bonus is converted to cash after certain play, so I think the casino is correct. But they could write it a bit clearer.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Mar 10, 2013
  5. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    1 person likes this.
  6. Mar 10, 2013
  7. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    I found this casino on the accredited list. Thought I would not have to google it to find if it is trustworthy or not (I'm not saying it is not!). But I thought that accredited casinos would have their T&C written clearly. Especially such a rule, which is quite important to allmost all players.

    But I'll play with the rules they ment when they wrote the rules :D.
     
  8. Mar 10, 2013
  9. chuzzleaddict

    chuzzleaddict On a Break

    Occupation:
    Hospitality Manager
    Location:
    Second star from the right... & straight on til mo
    I joined Kerching at the late part of last year and too encountered the same disappointment at the post-wager bonus, which I felt was not expressly stated. I had almost the exact same chat as you in CS and they must get it a lot, hence realise they need to be a bit clearer. All seems a bit cloak and dagger, as we join up in good faith to receive a bonus then find it takes yonks of deposits and wagering to clear it. Mine cleared very slowly and eventually got the £100 but wasn't worth all the hassle - I no longer play there.
     
  10. Mar 10, 2013
  11. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    Seems to me they dont care too much about what customers think. Not gonna play there again.
     
  12. Mar 10, 2013
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Why a list of excluded games when the bonus isn't playable in any case. I fail to see how playing on the deposit alone can lead to "abuse" of the bonus no matter what games are played. The excluded ones just won't count, itself pointless as they are slots, and slots are the best games for the casino because of their large house edge compared to other games.

    It seems they just exclude games because past players just happen to beat a bonus when playing them, but this will eventually happen on all their games given enough time. Their list of exclusions seems larger than before, which supports the view that new games get added to excluded as players win on them.

    Excluding slots tends to confuse players as many take the view that casinos should not have a problem with slots players using bonuses, so stick to slots to avoid stumbling into problems.

    I am wary of casinos that start excluding their bog standard slots, and tend to not play.
     
  14. Mar 10, 2013
  15. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Whoa......hold your horses there a minute.

    Nobody said they weren't trustworthy or legit.

    The ONLY discussion here is around the bonus system, which is a post wager arrangement....nothing sinister about that, in fact some prefer it.

    I don't play there so haven't read terms, but is there perhaps a section explaining the bonus system seperate to the terms you quoted? If there is, then its a lesson you just learned about reading all terms before you play. If there isn't, then I agree that the wording is a little misleading, although I'm sure not deliberately so.

    The best part is that being an accredited casino they have an active rep on board, so give them a holler and maybe ask them to check out these threads and consider changing the terms to make things clearer.

    Remember though.....if it does say somewhere else that bonus funds aren't playable, then you have no complaint per se, but asking for that information to be added to that section you quoted would benefit others in the future.
     
  16. Mar 10, 2013
  17. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    UK
    TBH Nifty (and this is the issue I had with Kerching as per the thread linked to above), their promotional material is very ambiguously worked, I'd argue it's basically deceptively worded since the language they use is identical to that associated with 'traditional' upfront bonuses with a WR attached, rather than a post-wager bonus which is unlocked once a player has wagered enough to do so.

    I still get the emails from them and they haven't changed at all, despite the rep saying here that were taking the feedback on board - unless you dig into the T&Cs there is no reason whatsoever to think that they're not a normal upfront bonus.

    Personally speaking if I fancy an IGT slots fix these days I just head over to Sky Vegas (recently accredited too), which has normal bonuses and a really quick payout time too.

    For reference, here's the Valentine's promo that Kerching sent out, and again, you have to go rooting through the T&Cs to work out it's a post-wager bonus.

    Bonus problem with kerching casino: valentines.JPG,Mar 10, 2013
     
  18. Mar 10, 2013
  19. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    UK
    They explicitly exclude all the highest RTP slots, some of the older IGT slots have RTPs of above 97.5%, which makes even a post-wager bonus on a 30xB WR EV+.

    IIRC the cutoff point for making it onto the excluded list is 96.5% RTP.

    It's a nasty little double-combo to my mind:

    1) It's a post-wager bonus and you have to work it out from a poorly worded page of T&Cs that this is the case.

    and

    2) You have to check out the game restrictions too, and it's rare to have slots bonuses restricted in this way.

    As has already been noted in this thread, I voted with my wallet and do not play there any more.
     
  20. Mar 10, 2013
  21. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Yeah I recall that one Chops.

    Its only misleading if one makes assumptions based on promotions at other casinos. If one takes promotions at new casinos without reading up about how they work is asking for trouble IMO.

    TERM 10 says:

    Bonuses. In the event of a promotional campaign or competition, where we credit an amount to your account, the funds are at that point deemed as "non playable"

    Now that is in the bonus terms when you click on the link, so I'm not sure whether that much digging is required. It also states something else similar in the general terms under "bonuses".

    Personally, I check ALL the terms before I take a bonus, especially at a new casino. Yes, it might seem OTT to some, but its probably why I've never had a bonus problem in 13 years. I also do a CM search, which may have saved the OP had they done that also.

    The first law of logic......never assume anything.

    The exclusion of certain popular slots is of much greater concern to me. I can see legit players after playing for an hour or two forgetting that a slot is excluded and playing it, with probably disastrous results. I'd avoid them personally on that term alone. Could be a good indicator of which slots have higher TRTP though....
     
  22. Mar 10, 2013
  23. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    as an aside, nifty, since you were talking about red rabbit, and here slot exclusions
    the rabbit excludes TDK from bonuses, being a progressive; ive never seen another MG casino do this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Mar 10, 2013
  25. chuzzleaddict

    chuzzleaddict On a Break

    Occupation:
    Hospitality Manager
    Location:
    Second star from the right... & straight on til mo
    Oh wow, only just now looked at those T&Cs in detail and had no idea that Wheel of Fortune TAF was excluded! Explains a lot, as that was the slot I mainly played on at Kerching, hence why it took agggggges to get my post WR bonus! I played occasionally on Wheel of Fortune Hollywood and Cleopatra which must have been when I was clearing, but 90% of the time was not. Damn!:eek::eek2:

    Read the T&Cs kids. Lesson.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Mar 10, 2013
  27. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    I quess you are right it is stubid to assume anything. Allthough I dare to say that more then 50% of online players assume, that 100% sign up match bonus means post-wager bonus unless else is clearly stated.

    I simply can not understand why in the world they wont imply the word after-wager or non-playable to their bonus terms allso. It would be so much clearer.
    They clearly have had their share of complaint about bonuses.

    I should have had noticed those three sentenses from their t&c (maybe 6-7 pages font size 12?). As I said I'm not saying they are not good. But they could be better by listening and learning :).
     
  28. Mar 10, 2013
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Odd, given that when pressed for RTP information, many casinos use excuses like "players don't understand RTP, and we don't want to confuse them", or, "RTP is just not important". Well, clearly it IS important, and players understand the concept in sufficient numbers for them to run scared of allowing the best slots to be played.

    Such terms also tell players something about the RTP of slots in software where this information is "confusing", "not important", or "commercially sensitive". Where one casino using a particular set of games starts to exclude slots, players know the best slots to play at other casinos that have the same games, but no exclusions. Publishing the information is not necessary. This is important information for those who play without bonuses, the excluded slots will give them more of a return.

    I thought Kerching slots were around the 92% to 95% mark, them being the online arm of Barcrest, a fruit machine company who's land versions of these games are 90% to 92% at most, and supposedly random. If they can be set to specific RTP profiles, then they are not entirely random in the same way that many online slots claim to be. They are configurable in some way, either by altering the reel strips, or by using weighting and compensation.

    There are some MGS slots that claim to be "98%-99%", yet they are not generally excluded at MGS casinos, yet at those RTP values, they would surely be +EV in the long term on the standard 30x WR. Many browser casinos exclude the MGS slot "Triple Magic", so I would assume this has an unusually high RTP compared with it's numerous clones with the same paytable, but with the more usual 2x and 4x multipliers on the wilds.

    Perhaps no-one has thought of repeatedly grinding WR on Triple Magic yet, hence only a few Flash casinos have excluded it. I have also seen Scrooge banned, but surely the highest RTP slot of all is "Summer Holiday", the ONLY one to have autospin disabled, something that seems to be a feature of the very highest RTP games, such as Classic Blackjack (the only BJ game to have autoplay disabled), and All Aces, the only VP game to have never had autoplay from the start.
     

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