Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino

[Nanny Rose]

Same position here unfortunately. I lost 1300 in a ridculously small aount of wagering on multi hand VP. I never even made it close to meeting the playthrough for the first bonus, and its the first time i ever gave up on a bonus. I never noticed the recycles, but i knew something was not right!

 

[aka23]

Same position here unfortunately. I lost 1300 in a ridculously small aount of wagering on multi hand VP. I never even made it close to meeting the playthrough for the first bonus, and its the first time i ever gave up on a bonus. I never noticed the recycles, but i knew something was not right!

What was the bet size and # of hands played?

You would have a high risk of busting under the current bonus setup requiring 40xB playthrough (on VP). With a 4 bet, ~5500 hands are required to meet the playthrough. There is a 13-30% chance of busting, depending on VP game. With a 16 bet ~1400 hands are required. There is a 35-80% chance of busting, depending on VP game.

 

[thelawnet]

What was the bet size and # of hands played?

You would have a high risk of busting under the current bonus setup requiring 40xB playthrough (on VP). With a 4 bet, ~5500 hands are required to meet the playthrough. There is a 13-30% chance of busting, depending on VP game. With a 16 bet ~1400 hands are required. There is a 35-80% chance of busting, depending on VP game.

That's not the point.

The point was that NannyRose was being ripped-off by Mansion casino with their short-pay video poker.

There's nothing wrong with having short-pay video poker, but you have to tell people.

On average they were taking at least 3% more than they claimed they were from the game description.

This is unacceptable.

 

[Nanny Rose]

I was fully aware i was playing "short-pay" VP. I was NOT aware just how "short" this VP actually is. It is a different game to the one described, and clearly I (and many others) would not have played this knowingly.

 

[Lifesticks]

On average they were taking at least 3% more than they claimed they were from the game description.

This is unacceptable.

It most certainly is. Could we hope for an explanation from the Mansion rep. here?

 

[The Dude]

Just spoke with the Mansion rep over the phone; the tech guys have fixed the problem, and they are going through player logs making compensations. They will be coming out with a statement soon - just wanted to give you a heads up.

 

[deucebag]

Just spoke with the Mansion rep over the phone; the tech guys have fixed the problem, and they are going through player logs making compensations. They will be coming out with a statement soon - just wanted to give you a heads up.

By compensate I hope they don't mean giving a dumb bonus or something -- I think the fair thing would be to compensate in full based on how much was wagered and the increase in house edge this problem caused. If this is done I may actually play there again.

I don't think a lot of casinos would do this, but I think Mansion is a classy casino, at least that was my impression up untill this software glitch was discovered. Now they have a chance to prove it.

I can't help but wonder though: are there "problems" with other games at this casino as well?

 

[bossplayer]

Well at least this time it wasn't from some upcoming bonus feature.....

 

[LiLLaLa]

Here is a new one on Mansion besides the ridiculous bonus rip off. I was playing in a poker tournament and was dealt the k of clubs and the 2 of spades which I folded of course. Imagine my surprise when the k of clubs hit the board. The hand ended before I could get a screenshot but that was the last dime of my money they will see. I went to withdrawl and discoverd the ridiculous policy of having to send an overseas fax to get "validated". Anyway the second K of clubs was one K of clubs too many for me to ever trust them!

 

[jeremiahsjohnso]

Question to CM: did they discover that only the Multihand was recycling cards? Or the single line as well?

I had thought this (recycling cards) was just an idiosyncrasy of the site which reminded me not to play it. Seeing that things are happening, I guess I'm glad I brought it up.

 

[jeremiahsjohnso]

<< Originally Posted by aka23
What was the bet size and # of hands played?

You would have a high risk of busting under the current bonus setup requiring 40xB playthrough (on VP). With a 4 bet, ~5500 hands are required to meet the playthrough. There is a 13-30% chance of busting, depending on VP game. With a 16 bet ~1400 hands are required. There is a 35-80% chance of busting, depending on VP game. >>

That's not the point.

The point was that NannyRose was being ripped-off by Mansion casino with their short-pay video poker.

There's nothing wrong with having short-pay video poker, but you have to tell people.

On average they were taking at least 3% more than they claimed they were from the game description.

This is unacceptable.

And if the bonus is complete-the-playthrough-and-then-receive, there's no such thing as busting it. No doubt plenty of people had been losing their initial deposit (sooner rather than later due to the house edge) and then redepositing in order to complete the requirements.

 

[homerj]

i've been waiting for an update from mansion and the rep in livechat last night denied knowing anything about this !

anyway, i'm wondering just how long this VP feature has been in before anyone noticed it. if its been in since day one this is going to cost them big time !

 

[squeakalot]

Just spoke with the Mansion rep over the phone; the tech guys have fixed the problem, and they are going through player logs making compensations. They will be coming out with a statement soon - just wanted to give you a heads up.

Thank you.

My account doesn't seem to be getting any larger. Is this compensation really going to happen? Is Mansion going to make a statement?

 

[The Dude]

Actually, I misquoted them. They will look at player accounts on a case-by-case basis. Still waiting for the statement.

 

[sharpfool]

Regarding the issue with retroactive change of t&c:

I had a similar problem as Linus. I have fulfilled wager requirement according to original t&c, but not according to the new and higher requirement where War etc only count 50%. I told them that I stick to that I have fulfilled the wager requirement acccording to t&c at the time I made my deposit. I have just received a mail that my bonus will be released.

 

[brutaldeluxe]

I emailed mansion about this. I deposited 575 and lost it all. I played alot of video poker. The reply I got was...

Our Casino Department have investigated the issue you query and advise the following:

You have profited from Video Poker to the sum of 49.75 and your loss was through playing Black Jack, where you lost all of your deposit amounts.

If you should require any further help or assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Kind regards



Paul U



MANSION Member Services

So they are saying I won on video poker and lost on blackjack so this makes cheating on video poker OK ?

 

[The Dude]

Mansion Casino Statement

MANSION Casino

We can confirm that we have looked into our Video Poker games.

We accept responsibility that there was an error and indeed cards were reappearing, this was corrected on Thursday the 27th of July.

We confirm that the games have been corrected now, and that cards that appear are 'new' and recycled cards are not dealt to the player.

We advise any player who feels they were affected by this software error to contact us at [email protected] and we can look at the individual game play and make efforts to recompense you.

MANSION apologises for the inconvenience and confusion this has caused.

Regards,

MANSION Casino

 

[brutaldeluxe]

I e mailed back with..

So because I won on video poker it means the fact I was being cheated is irrelevant ?
If upon being caught false dealing a blackjack dealer stated that the player was winning
regardless this would mean it was ok ?
That's pretty poor I think. Very disappointed with that repsonse.

They replied with...

Thank you for your email



MANSION welcomes all feedback from players and yours will be passed to the Casino Department.



Thank you for choosing to bet with MANSION.

Looks like I am being ignored in otherwords.
They say I won 49.75 playing video poker. Perhaps it might have been 949.75 if I was playing the game I thought I was playing - I wasn't.
I won on video poker so that fact mansion were cheating doesn't matter ?!?!
Perhaps I might have won more !

Let me ask you if you were playing deuces wild poker and you were 50 up and then you lost this cash elsewhere. If someone then told you, oh by the way when you were playing deuces wild one of the deuces was removed the whole time, would you not feel a little cheated ?
I mean what has happened here isn't quite the same in terms of maths but the principle is still the same surely ?
I thought I was playing a certain game as descirbed by their terms and conditions. I wasn't, I was playing a completely different one.
Casinos are always keen on making you read terms and conditions as well aren't they ?

Perhaps I am coming across as bitter just cos I lost but I was cheated neverthe less and now it seems like mansion are just gonna ignore me.
Pretty disappointed really.

 

[The Dude]

Looks like I am being ignored in otherwords.
They say I won 49.75 playing video poker. Perhaps it might have been 949.75 if I was playing the game I thought I was playing - I wasn't.
I won on video poker so that fact mansion were cheating doesn't matter ?!?!
Perhaps I might have won more !

Let me ask you if you were playing deuces wild poker and you were 50 up and then you lost this cash elsewhere. If someone then told you, oh by the way when you were playing deuces wild one of the deuces was removed the whole time, would you not feel a little cheated ?
I mean what has happened here isn't quite the same in terms of maths but the principle is still the same surely ?
I thought I was playing a certain game as descirbed by their terms and conditions. I wasn't, I was playing a completely different one.
Casinos are always keen on making you read terms and conditions as well aren't they ?

Perhaps I am coming across as bitter just cos I lost but I was cheated neverthe less and now it seems like mansion are just gonna ignore me.
Pretty disappointed really.

Why don't you just chill, and give them a chance to look into your situation?

 

[brutaldeluxe]

Oh I just realised I didn't post this...

Our Casino Department have investigated the issue you query and advise the following:

You have profited from Video Poker to the sum of 49.75 and your loss was through playing Black Jack, where you lost all of your deposit amounts.

If you should require any further help or assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Kind regards



Paul U



MANSION Member Services

Hence they are saying cos I won at video poker and lost the cash elsewhere it doesn't matter they were cheating.
I replied with the email I posted above and got the yes thankyou we passed your feedback on email hence me thinking I am getting ignored.

 

[soflat]

Hence they are saying cos I won at video poker and lost the cash elsewhere it doesn't matter they were cheating.
I replied with the email I posted above and got the yes thankyou we passed your feedback on email hence me thinking I am getting ignored.

That reply from Mansion is lame. Maybe it was from a temp or just someone who has no clue. I hope so anyways.

They should just credit players automatically, because otherwise we are probably going to face a lot of these types of responses as we individually beg for our rebates.

 

[jeremiahsjohnso]

That reply from Mansion is lame. Maybe it was from a temp or just someone who has no clue. I hope so anyways.

They should just credit players automatically, because otherwise we are probably going to face a lot of these types of responses as we individually beg for our rebates.

Of course, if they did that, they'd have to give rebates to a whole bunch of people, not just the subset who (1) read this thread, and (2) have the ability/interest/time to complain.

If they aren't going to issue automatic refunds to everyone, I'd at least suggest that they send that same letter that was posted here to every member of their casino. (They may already have plans to do that; I certainly hope so.)

 

[Lifesticks]

If they aren't going to issue automatic refunds to everyone, I'd at least suggest that they send that same letter that was posted here to every member of their casino. (They may already have plans to do that; I certainly hope so.)

Judging by everything Ive read and experienced at Mansion so far, I think that is about as likely as actually making a profit there.

 

[pangloss]

MANSION Casino

We can confirm that we have looked into our Video Poker games.

We accept responsibility that there was an error and indeed cards were reappearing, this was corrected on Thursday the 27th of July.

We confirm that the games have been corrected now, and that cards that appear are 'new' and recycled cards are not dealt to the player.

We advise any player who feels they were affected by this software error to contact us at [email protected] and we can look at the individual game play and make efforts to recompense you.

MANSION apologises for the inconvenience and confusion this has caused.

Regards,

MANSION Casino

This is the "English Harbour" defence that is now going to be trotted out every time a Casino is caught with it's pants down.

Like English Harbour, this Casino is inclined to prevaricate one issue after another whether it be awarding Bonus, cheating software and/or providing compensation for affected players.

If a zero-tolerance policy is not enforced here then what is to stop every on-line Casino from cying "English Harbour - oops, sorry it's the technicians you know" before proceeding with business as usual.

If Mansion Casino truly regret this fiasco we should be witnessing an urgent communication with every video player and arranging just compensation according to an appropriate formula. Instead we get nothing of the sort.

In an earlier post CM (response to Britaldeluxe "Why don't you just chill, and give them a chance to look into your situation?") implied victims in this sorry affair are at fault for expressing a little impatience. Fair go CM - this Casino does nothing to rectify the wrongs until it is dragged screaming to a position of accountability. Players are entitled to be and remain sceptical because we have heard all this before in the not too distant past. And this is just another shameful episode of shafting players.



....

 

[soflat]

Of course, if they did that, they'd have to give rebates to a whole bunch of people, not just the subset who (1) read this thread, and (2) have the ability/interest/time to complain.

Probably, but if it were a genuine accident then they shouldn't mind paying it to everyone. Afterall, there is still a house edge with their video poker even if they don't recycle cards and Mansion has been spending a lot of money marketing in various media in the United States. So clearly they care about their reputation.

 

[Linus]

Our Casino Department have investigated the issue you query and advise the following:

You have profited from Video Poker to the sum of 49.75 and your loss was through playing Black Jack, where you lost all of your deposit amounts.

If you should require any further help or assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Kind regards



Paul U



MANSION Member Services

Lame.

If the "accident," or whatever, cost 2% or 3%, that's what should be returned to players.

They must think their players are imbeciles.

 

[spearmaster]

MANSION Casino

We can confirm that we have looked into our Video Poker games.

We accept responsibility that there was an error and indeed cards were reappearing, this was corrected on Thursday the 27th of July.

We confirm that the games have been corrected now, and that cards that appear are 'new' and recycled cards are not dealt to the player.

We advise any player who feels they were affected by this software error to contact us at [email protected] and we can look at the individual game play and make efforts to recompense you.

MANSION apologises for the inconvenience and confusion this has caused.

Regards,

MANSION Casino

Unacceptable. They should review their logs and pay accordingly, the onus should not be on the player to check what they cannot possibly check themselves.

This is the "English Harbour" defence that is now going to be trotted out every time a Casino is caught with it's pants down.

This is NOT the EH defence - if you recall, they checked their own logs and paid everyone affected with 20% additional compensation.

What Mansion is doing here is far, far worse - simply inexcusable.

 

[thelawnet]

Oh I just realised I didn't post this...




Hence they are saying cos I won at video poker and lost the cash elsewhere it doesn't matter they were cheating.
I replied with the email I posted above and got the yes thankyou we passed your feedback on email hence me thinking I am getting ignored.

complete bullshit. Imagine if I hit a royal for 1k first hand, and then wagered another 20k and in doing so lost 1k. My loss would be zero, but if they had played by the rules I would have expected to lose only about 400.

It's very very simple: issue 3% refunds on every cent wagered to every player. Win or lose.

Anything else would be wrong, and proves them to be either clueless or crooked.

They should be given 2 weeks to refund every player (without making them beg for it) or else be added to the rogue list.

 

[sal monella]

Just received my reply from Mansion. They say I profited against the house, and am therefore not entitled to compensation.

As I posted at the time, their 5x bonus was very generous, so even though I lost heavily at video poker, I was still able to cash out the entire amount of my deposits plus a couple dollars of bonus money.

 

[Mousey]

MANSION apologises for the inconvenience and confusion this has caused.

I think, perhaps, they should have spent a little more time writing up their statement. But then maybe I'm one of those 'confused' since I don't take recycled cards in a VP game lightly. And I hate to say it, but I think the 'error' was Mansion underestimating their players. Purely my opinon. Will I play there? No, thank you.

 

[soflat]

Just received my reply from Mansion. They say I profited against the house, and am therefore not entitled to compensation.

Well, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt by assuming the first person who posted a Mansion reply might have gotten a hasty response from an inexperienced CS rep. But now it's starting to look like a far worse situation.

 

[brutaldeluxe]

I'd like to say I am surprised by the reply from mansion but I'm not. This has become standard for so many casinos. Oh we were cheating but hey we are gonna get away with it cos we can, superb.

Of course say a player had some sort of cheating device which took 4% off the house edge and turned it into a winning game for him.
If upon being caught he used the defence hey I lost 300 anyway so what's the problem, would that be ok then I wonder ?
Of course it wouldn't. Yet somehow it's ok for the casino to do it to the players.

Mansion won't be getting another penny from me and I'll be urging everyone else to follow suit.

 

[2BigDogs]

My email with Mansion

For what it might be worth to all of you. I emailed customer service and complained about the video poker issue. The first response was from customer service telling me they forwarded the issue to thier video poker department. Now I have recieved this:


______________________________
Further to our recent email regarding Video Poker.

We have been in touch with our Casino Department and we are pleased to confirm the technical difficulties you were experiencing on our Video Poker game are now fixed.

MANSION apologies for any inconvenience this may of caused we would also like to point out were currently reviewing your account to see if you are entitled to a refund.

If you have any further queries or require any assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kindest regards,

Dan
___________________________________________________

No idea how this is going to turn out, but I did bust out some serious cash playing video poker, so we'll see if I get any satisfaction. I will update when I get a further response.



MANSION Member Services

 

[pangloss]

This is NOT the EH defence - if you recall, they checked their own logs and paid everyone affected with 20% additional compensation.

What Mansion is doing here is far, far worse - simply inexcusable.

EH pointedly refused to check (and/or disclose) their logs beyond a teeney weeney time frame. To do so would have verified claims by kengam et al that their games had been cooked for God knows how long. Thus they escaped paying proper and due compensation to those affected by limiting the scope of enquiry.

Enter Mansion Casino - first they invoke the EH defence of bumbling software technicians. Second they limit paying compensation by pretending only players who actually complain and then actually suffer a bank roll loss are worthy of compensation.

The modus operandi sounds all too familiar to me Spear.


...

 

[spearmaster]

EH pointedly refused to check (and/or disclose) their logs beyond a teeney weeney time frame. To do so would have verified claims by kengam et al that their games had been cooked for God knows how long. Thus they escaped paying proper and due compensation to those affected by limiting the scope of enquiry.

Enter Mansion Casino - first they invoke the EH defence of bumbling software technicians. Second they limit paying compensation by pretending only players who actually complain and then actually suffer a bank roll loss are worthy of compensation.

The modus operandi sounds all too familiar to me Spear.


...

Pangloss, I forgot to welcome you to Casinomeister on your first post Welcome!

EH clearly identified the scope of the problem and identified the period in which the error affected accounts. They reviewed all play during that period and made compensation plus 20%.

Any period before that was NOT affected and no proof whatsoever of any irregularities during that time was given. Do not allow yourself to be swayed by cries of "Wolf!" so easily.

Mansion, on the other hand, did not introduce an error into the casino where there was none before - and even if they had, they should have been able to identify the period, and automatically review all logs during that period. Instead, they are requiring players to contact them to see if they are entitled to a refund, rather than reviewing all logs in question and automatically paying compensation - and, as you have seen from some players, the excuse of "having profited" is the reason being given for not paying compensation.

This scenario is thus completely different - by a long shot - and far more serious than any issue that arose with any other provider.

In my book, this is rogue behavior.

 

[soflat]

EH clearly identified the scope of the problem and identified the period in which the error affected accounts. They reviewed all play during that period and made compensation plus 20%.

Any period before that was NOT affected and no proof whatsoever of any irregularities during that time was given. Do not allow yourself to be swayed by cries of "Wolf!" so easily.

Actually I believe you are alone in this way of thinking about the English Harbor video poker fiasco and the impportance of doing a full audit.

The Wizard of Odds put a statement on his website stating that earlier logs should and would be looked at.

And Casino Meister posted the following: "Their gaming jurisdiction should have been contacted immediately and a full audit should have commenced. This never happened to my knowledge,"

 

[spearmaster]

Actually I believe you are alone in this way of thinking about the English Harbor video poker fiasco and the impportance of doing a full audit.

The Wizard of Odds put a statement on his website stating that earlier logs should and would be looked at.

And Casino Meister posted the following: "Their gaming jurisdiction should have been contacted immediately and a full audit should have commenced. This never happened to my knowledge,"

Let me make this a bit more clear.

EH identified the period in question and automatically reviewed all play and paid refunds plus 20%.

Mansion has not identified any period during which the recycled cards were in use, and are asking you to request an audit into your records.

Tell me, who is the bigger culprit here? Am I the only one that thinks this way?

I don't think so, not by a long shot.

 

[soflat]

Since there was no audit, English Harbor never identified the time periods conclusively.

We can assume Mansion's vp was bad from the start.

Which is worse? I don't know but they are both terrible.

 

[spearmaster]

Since there was no audit, English Harbor never identified the time periods conclusively.

There was an audit - which identified that the problem occurred in April. All affected bets were refunded plus 20%.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Cheating software.

The industry is not doing itself any favours over this. There have been numerous allegations by players who have had terrible runs and post that "the ****** game at **** is clearly rigged". These have been hard to prove, and the majority opinion is that it was just a run of bad luck and the games in gereral are fair. Operators have replied by saying how robust their software is, how well their RNG has been designed and tested to produce fair results.
Now, the conspiracy theorists have caught not one, but TWO casinos out cheating! In both instances, it was NOTHING to do with the fairness of the RNG, it was all to do with how the software converts that random number into a set of cards, dice, or reels for the game the player is playing.
The can of worms is now well and truly open. Many are feeling that online Blackjack simply does not "feel right" on occasion, and I am one of them, having said that sometimes I can play seemingly forever and all the luck is bad with no spells of good luck as might be expected to balance out the runs. I have conceded that the RNG itself must be as near to random as makes no difference, and have surmised that there must be some kind of algorithm that makes the game more "interesting" by implementing some kind of bias feedback to keep streaks going more one way than another, and that this bias changes slowly, hence advice from some casinos to leave the game alone and come back next week, strangely, it seems to work!
I would be interested to know what process they use to convert numbers to things like cards in Blackjack, a subtle error here can make all the difference, and if slight may never come to light.
I believe the PWC verification looks at the number of times cards appear and conclude that all cards appear with the frequency they should, what it does NOT look at is whether bias exists that causes the hand as a whole to be continually good or bad for either player or dealer, such as sequencing the cards in such a way that a player always gets the bust card and the dealer gets the run of low cards to make the proverbial silk purse of the Sow's ear hand started with! ( I have a particular gripe with the runs of eternal pushes of my good hands against an initial crap up card for the dealer, followed by always busting when it is I that have the "challenging" hard 14!

 

[pangloss]

Pangloss, I forgot to welcome you to Casinomeister on your first post Welcome!

.

Thank you spear - agree with everything you say about Mansion Casino.


...

 

[BBKPoker]

One of these days, I'll learn from all the hassles I've had with casinos and stop and read the CM threads about them before depositing.

My issue is that I had to request the bonus after signing up and depositing ($1,000 and after the terms had changed so the 10x with table games counting 50% I knew about already). Then, after meeting the playthrough, I did not receive my bonus and requested it. I was told it would be credited within an hour, then I was told a shift manager had to approve it due to the amount, and it would be another hour.

Well, 3 hours later, nothing.

 

[BBKPoker]

15 hours later I sent them an email asking them where my bonus was.

3 hours after that it was credited.

Now I've wagered it once, and sent in my license. I'm cashing out of this site permanently once they email to tell me they've accepted it.

 

[BBKPoker]

and now some positive feedback.

They apologized regarding the situation. Once I cashed out, it took 12 hours to hit my ewallet which I was pleasantly surprised by.

I'm feeling better re: this casino.

 

[thelawnet]

and now some positive feedback.

They apologized regarding the situation. Once I cashed out, it took 12 hours to hit my ewallet which I was pleasantly surprised by.

I'm feeling better re: this casino.

but presumably not as good as mansion are feeling having conned their vp players out of 3% of every $ they wagered

 

[soflat]

but presumably not as good as mansion are feeling having conned their vp players out of 3% of every $ they wagered

Yep it is real easy to pay people when you are ripping some off.

 

[thelawnet]

Yep it is real easy to pay people when you are ripping some off.

It's a good progression for the owner, Putera Sampoerna. Until a year ago he owned Indonesia's largest cigarette company, which specialises in ultra-high-tar and nicotine cigarettes with typically 3mg of nicotine and 34mg of tar per stick. He also set up the Sampoerna educational foundation, which was basically a means of getting the Sampoerna cigarette brand in front of kids. Having sold out to the ironically named Altria group (ex Phillip Morris) he bought Mansion. It seems a short step from cancer sticks to short pay gambling.

 

[joeyboyuk]

So, has the video poker problem been completely fixed? I have money in a poker account at mansion and quite enjoy playing video poker jacks or better.I dont really want to play if it still has a crappy payout tho!!
Does anyopne know what the payout is for multihand jacks or better?

I was wondering also if anyone had any problems with the doubling wins on VP, does this seem like it cheats too? Will doubling count towards clearing bonuses?

 

[spearmaster]

Having sold out to the ironically named Altria group (ex Phillip Morris) he bought Mansion.

Minor correction - he started Mansion up a little more than a year before the tobacco company was sold to Altria.

 

[Lifesticks]

I played heavily on the affected game and have yet to receive an answer from Mansion regarding this issue, after 10 days and two reminders. Has everyone here been sorted out?