Bonus Issues at Mansion Casino

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Oh Dear!

I signed up and was so Royally Screwed by Jacks or Better I never even made the 5x WR!! I had not heard about the latest change, I certainly didn't see 100% up to $1000 on first deposit. This would still be a decent deal though at 40x Blackjack (50% weights). Sadly, I have made my first deposit under the old rules, and my second and third would be under the new ones, but despite having the harsher WR of the new rules, I can not have the benefit of the bigger bonuses. If the terms are to be retrospective, surely the better bonus should be offered retrospectively to earlier customers.

Uninstalling Mansion is really easy, delete the .lnk shortcut.

The old terms offered $100 + $100 at 5x WR, are the new ones seriously $1000 + $1000 at 20x WR (50% tables and VP). I can see Mansion having to change these terms again amid more uproar, or is there something about their Blackjack/VP that enables the casino to still win overall from signups?:confused:
 

WAYLANDER

Webmeister
webmeister
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
uk
Quote Mansion Casino

Unfortunately as soon as we make these changes to our software the changes apply to all players. It appears as though this is your current situation - you have made your deposits prior to the changes but now have to achieve the wagering requirement under the contribution rules.

I realise this is not ideal but unfortunately we are unable to change the requirement for specific accounts.


If you think you are in the right why use the word " unfortunately " ?
Whats " unfortunate " is that you are forcing a player to do something he didnt sign up for!

WAYLANDER
 

rogue724

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Location
USA
From the get go of them promoting their casino--they haven't got a clue when it comes to customer service. You got to hand it to them--when they decide to screw you over with their constant "terms changing" they do it with an "in your face" style. Their management told me "Bryan is a fair minded guy". He must be really a fair minded chap not to weigh in on this and say it stinks!!
 

sal monella

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Location
Where the deers and the antelopes play
vinylweatherman said:
I signed up and was so Royally Screwed by Jacks or Better I never even made the 5x WR!!
I also had a very bad run at Jacks or Better, disappointing because the game should have been ideal for grinding out a 5x bonus. Although Mansion's JOB isn't quite full-pay, the paytable reductions are at the top end, and several multi-line options (3, 5, 10, 50 or 100 hands) are available with coin bet sizes as low as 10 cents. I had slightly better results playing Deuces Wild, but still lost all the bonus money before receiving it.

Ignoring the unfriendliness of my gaming results, the no-download software is impressive. It's fast, and I liked that the account information allowed me to track my exact progress toward meeting the bonus playthrough requirements.
 

jeremiahsjohnso

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Location
California
Their multi-hand video poker recycles discards (not sure if this happens on their regular VP) -- and they don't give a bonus for redrawing the same card (like some other places do).
 

Linus

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Location
TX
jeremiahsjohnso said:
Their multi-hand video poker recycles discards (not sure if this happens on their regular VP) -- and they don't give a bonus for redrawing the same card (like some other places do).

That would mean their actual payouts are even lower than you'd expect from their paytable, right?

Either way, I don't like signing up under one set of rules, and then having to play under a different (and worse) set, after the fact.

Nice eye, Jeremiah. I don't usually notice things like that.
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
jeremiahsjohnso said:
Their multi-hand video poker recycles discards (not sure if this happens on their regular VP) -- and they don't give a bonus for redrawing the same card (like some other places do).

If that's true, that's very serious cheating.

According to their site:

Once you've held the cards you wish to, click 'Deal' again and new cards will be dealt to replace those not held.

For their paytable, 800/40/20/9/6/4/3/2/1, the payout should be 98.25%.

For that same paytable with recycled cards, the payout is 95.26% playing correct recycled card strategy. However, because they claim that they are not recycling cards, players would not play this strategy: they would play regular Jacks or Better strategy, and so would get an even lower return.

So the net casino house advantage is likely to be >5%. At that hold, they are making more profit than on slots, and without even telling the player their scam.
 

squeakalot

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Location
oakland
sal monella said:
This is one allegation that should be easy to check, but I don't have any money remaining there and don't want to deposit. Is there an option to play for fun? I can't figure out how.

Just verified with the multiline. It probably helps explain why I've been doing so poorly.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
I don't like VP that isn't played with only one deck of cards per hand being played. Are you guys saying that discarded cards are returned into the deck before the draw?? :confused: Excuse me?? I discarded that card because I didn't want it!! Don't be giving it back to me in the same hand! That's like that crazy VP at Intercasino I won't touch with a ten foot pole, miniscule 'bonus' or not for drawing same card.
 

squeakalot

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Location
oakland
Right. Discarded cards are returned to the deck before the draw. Here is the full description of Multiline Video Poker from the Mansion website:

BEGIN MANSION TERMS

Multiline Video Poker

There are eight different Video Poker games to choose from, and you can have 100 chances to win! Hold your best cards to try and get the highest poker hand you can.

If you're new to Video Poker, full rules of each version of Mansion's Video Pokers are provided in the appropriate How to Play sections. If you've played before, take a look at the Multiline Video Poker Game Features.
Game Features

MANSION's Multiline Video Poker games have the following features:
1. Play up to 100 lines at a time.
2. One 52 card pack of cards is used per line.

3. The deck is shuffled after each game.
4. Wins depend on the number of coins bet. See the game window for the full payout table.
5. If you win you have the option to double.
How to Play

The aim of Video Poker is to achieve the highest ranked five-card poker hand possible. In each game you will be dealt five cards and need to decide which, if any, to hold until the next round. New cards are then dealt for each line and this completes the game.

If you have a winning hand you'll have the option to gamble on doubling your winnings.
Starting the game

To begin your game of Multiline Video Poker, simply select the number of lines you would like to play and then click on your favourite Mansion Video Poker.
Placing a bet

Before any cards are dealt you'll need to place a bet.

You can control how much you bet in three ways:

Step 1 - Choose the number of lines that you wish to play on the switchboard. You can access this once you are in a game by clicking on the More Games button.

Step 2 - Use the coin selector in the bottom middle menu bar to decide on the value of coin you want to use.

Step 3 - Use the 'Bet One' button to increment the amount of coins you want to play for the game. Alternatively you can click Bet Max to play the maximum 5 coins. This will automatically deal the cards.
Start to play

Once you have selected your coin value and number of coins simply hit 'Deal' to start.

The Dealer will deal a total of five cards face up. You now have the option to hold any of the cards you want to keep. To do this simply click on the card and 'Held' will appear across it (and will reveal the card in the hands above the main cards) - if you've made a mistake, click on the card again to release the hold. Once youve held the cards you wish to, click 'Deal' again and new cards will be dealt to replace those not held in main hand and all the lines being played.

Double

If you have a winning hand you'll be offered the opportunity to double. If you accept, five cards will be dealt from a newly shuffled 52 card pack. The first card will be dealt face up and you must select one of the remaining four cards. .

If your selected card is higher than the first card, you win and double your money. If the card is the same, a push is declared and your winnings from the previous round are returned - and if you have a lower card your bet is lost.

You can double up to four times in a row.

END MANSION TERMS

I bolded the sections I see as appropriate, one of which was bolded previously.
 

soflat

Dormant Account
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
squeakalot said:
I bolded the sections I see as appropriate, one of which was bolded previously.

The other line that is relevant is where it says the deck is shuffled after each game.

Nowhere does it state that cards are returned and the deck reshuffled mid-game.
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
squeakalot said:
Once youve held the cards you wish to, click 'Deal' again and new cards will be dealt to replace those not held in main hand and all the lines being played.


Given that it says new cards will be dealt, and they are not doing this, they are cheating, and should issue refunds to all players who have played this game.

I assume that Mansion will issue a statement.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Damn!

And needless to say, they've been removed from the "Accredited Section" until this is cleared up. Either they state in the T&Cs that cards are recycled, or they don't recycle them. Simple as that. You can't have it both ways.

jeremiahsjohnso said:
Their multi-hand video poker recycles discards (not sure if this happens on their regular VP) -- and they don't give a bonus for redrawing the same card (like some other places do).
Which casino does this? (gives a bonus for discarded cards reappearing). I've seen this before, but I can't remember where.
 

Macgyver

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Location
North Carolina
Casinomeister said:
Which casino does this? (gives a bonus for discarded cards reappearing). I've seen this before, but I can't remember where.

Intercasino (NOT Entercasino ;) ) offers that, if memory serves correctly.
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
Casinomeister said:
And needless to say, they've been removed from the "Accredited Section" until this is cleared up. Either they state in the T&Cs that cards are recycled, or they don't recycle them. Simple as that. You can't have it both ways.

Quite right.

Nobody wants would knowingly play this game if they knew what was going on. E.g., if you've got AKQJ of the same suit, plus 6 of another, you don't want to toss the 6 and then get it back again! It means the odds of completing the Royal Flush go from 1/47 to 1/48. This might not sound like a lot, but it's over 2%, which is a pretty big deal. Of course that's not actually the worst case - the more cards you discard the bigger the chance you will get one of the unwanted cards back.

Which casino does this? (gives a bonus for discarded cards reappearing). I've seen this before, but I can't remember where.

Cryptologic bonus poker. But they advertise it as such, and you get little * on the cards when they come back. And you get a bonus.

And the game still sucks, even with the bonus

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BTW, I'm sure that Mansion will resolve this one. I guess they will have to pay out a fair bit to players, but it's small beer to them - they are owned by a billionaire ex-tobacco baron who has big ambitions for them, so I don't think this is much of a problem for them. Let's hope they handle it better than did English Harbour :-D
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
thelawnet said:
BTW, I'm sure that Mansion will resolve this one. I guess they will have to pay out a fair bit to players, but it's small beer to them - they are owned by a billionaire ex-tobacco baron who has big ambitions for them, so I don't think this is much of a problem for them.

Based on the way they handled past bonus situations, I don't think this is likely. It's not a money issue, that's for sure.

I do wish to point out, however, that when RTG introduced their multi-hand video pokers, I caught them recycling cards as well. I believed that to be unintentional, and it was fixed soon thereafter, but there was never any thought of players being compensated even though that probably would have been a good idea.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Recycling

I have played VP for ages and never realised this point about recycling or not recycling. I mainly play MG, and this does not get a mention. I will have to keep my eyes peeled to see if this happens anywhere I play. Certainly, it seems to have an impact on the house edge, and could explain, in part, my feeling that some VP never seems to get near the tight house edge on the Wizards site.

I did a very long experiment in MG Fun mode, using the 50 hand Jacks or Better. At the end of a fairly long run, my losses were double what could be expected for a 99.54% return. I assumed this was the result of not having run enough hands to obtain the right proportion of pat dealt Royal and Straight Flushes to balance out. This is probably true, as my run was only 300,000 deals, about one third of the expected interval between pat dealt Royal Flushes.
 

squeakalot

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Location
oakland
I've got screenshots of the proof of recycling, but no place to post them. Is there someone I should e-mail them to? Casinomeister?
 

happygobrokey

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
canada
yippee

i lost the whole first depsoit bonus, but was hoping to make it back on the juicy 2nd and 3rd bonuses, when they up and changed the terms. so i had 170 dollars sitting there and of course i had to send in i.d. so i pretty much forgot i hadn't withdrawn, when i notice my email has a new message from mansion. i got a free 20 dollar bonus, with no wr, just one time playthrough to convert to real cash. so i of course asked for it to be promoted and then played four $5 hands at bj. oops! forgot bj and baccarat are not allowed to clear the bonuses. good thing i was up 12.50 after those four hands! so then i did 20 $1 bets at war, ran up another 3 dollars in doing so, and cashed out 208.50 instead of the 170.00 i thought i was going to be settling for.

thanks mansion for your generosity and for not confirming my i.d. and thus prompting me to withdraw sooner! this was a good gesture on their part and i was happy to not be getting "screwed" by the bonus change midway through. who gives three separate bonuses anyway, like what's up with that? anyhow,

i also wanted to say with regard to cashing the bonus, citing CBW's post at 2+2, think of your balance as casino chips. when you get the bonus credited, these chips by default are at the bottom of the stack. you have to promote them to the top of the stack or else you will never wager them until you've lost all your own money first.

so it isn't that you have to "make it cashable" just that in order to cash it, you have to have wagered the bonus chips away, and promoting them to the top of the stack is how you wager them through easiest. if you withdrew your real money chips out and were left only with the bonus, then it wouldn't be necessary to alert them to "make it cashable" because you would be wagering with the bonus chips anyway.

i think this is a stupid way to operate, but they reserve that right to make things complicated. but it isn't so different from paying down all the interest before paying down on the principal of a loan/credit card. it's +ev for the casino to have you lose all your own money rather than bonus funds, and it's +ev for the credit card company to keep your debt from being paid down until all the interest upon it is paid. i said good day!
 

deucebag

Full Member
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Location
cyberspace
I lost $3150 clearing 1250$ in bonuses on JoB video poker at Mansion. I feel cheated. What a rip off. :mad:
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
squeakalot said:
I've got screenshots of the proof of recycling, but no place to post them. Is there someone I should e-mail them to? Casinomeister?
I don't need any screen shots because I've seen it myself. Thanks!
 

Lifesticks

Dormant account
Joined
May 30, 2006
Location
Sweden
I must say I am very dissapointed in the way Mansion has handled several issues that has occured to me playing there. Other than the problems mentioned here I had continuing issues with my wagers towards freeing the bonuses being split up between different bonuses (I had five deposits and five different bonuses). This however was solved after extensive mailing contact with them where they just seemed to ignore what I was telling them and giving me a generic "Your account balance is correct" answer.

Once I had received the bonuses though I could not on earth understand why they were not withdrawable after the 1X playthrough mentioned in their terms.

Withdrawal Requirement
To withdraw the credited bonus as cash you must wager the value of the bonus once.

Although I had wagered the bonuses awarded 5-10 times they were not withdrawable and for this they gave me several cryptic answers such as:

Our Casino department have advised that although the bonus, has to be turned over once before you are able to withdraw Bonus funds. It is played out in parts dependant on how much is wagered on individual bets and how much is won.

Finally, after losing 200$ (or was it 300$) desperately trying to make the bonuses withdrawable they adviced me that the reason they were not withdrawable was that I was playing Black Jack for the 1X turnover which would only count 5% towards this being cleared. This rule was clear when it came to the actual crediting of the bonus but it nowhere said it applied to the 1X final turnover requirement.

All in all, a very poor experience that cost me 700$.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
HELP ME!!!!

OMG................I am fading fast here.....only for the few that have commented about my comments on bonuses am I refraining out of courtesy , (gawd its sooo hard) from saying a word here...I am being tortured by ya'll....CM (Bryan)...please , please, let me say a word without being beat up...and you guys, please say I can too... :lolup: :D
 

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