Betphoenix experiences?

[maxd]

.... To imply that a ban is likely on such flimsy grounds as 4 of a Kind appears to be suggesting here is imo plain mischievous at best and malicious at worst.

And it's not the first time we've been here with 4OAK. It seems like every six months or so he pulls this "I'll probably get banned" rabbit out of the hat, usually straight out of the blue and connected to nothing currently being said or done on our forums. One suspects there's a conversation going on somewhere else that prompts him to pop up here to repeat his little troll dance.

 

[Nifty29]

And it's not the first time we've been here with 4OAK. It seems like every six months or so he pulls this "I'll probably get banned" rabbit out of the hat, usually straight out of the blue and connected to nothing currently being said or done on our forums. One suspects there's a conversation going on somewhere else that prompts him to pop up here to repeat his little troll dance.

Firstly, the reason I think 4oak does it is because he thinks that surrounding his unsubstantiated views with self-created controversy somehow makes them, and him, more credible. In reality, it makes him appear desperate imo.

Secondly, what the heck is that avatar? I have my own idea but there's been enough reproduction discussion already the past 12 hours.

 

[The Dude]

...Secondly, what the heck is that avatar? I have my own idea but there's been enough reproduction discussion already the past 12 hours.

I believe that's the evil thing in Lord of the Rings.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the PAB from Cabrair32. Nothing yet.

 

[maxd]

[derail][apologies]
Yup, avatar = the eye of Sauron from Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers.
(see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

for details)
Too many PABs all going red-line at about the same time, put me in a bit o' a Scottish mooood.
[/apologies][/derail]

 

[Emmeline]

I'm not sure what in my postings makes you think I could know all this, as I do not try to give an air of knowing all, rather trying to help in all ways possible.

Am I apologetic sometimes? Sure, but what is wrong with that? Every company makes mistakes. We try to beat our competition by jumping on them, recognizing them, and constantly improving. Also, keeping clear and open lines of communication.

Now I would like to put things into perspective.

The last months have been turbulent, starting with the delayed payment and cashier issues in january.
During this time, especiallly the first month, members have been very busy.
Some have been stepping up to lead the defense of BP and especially Nicholas Johnson.
Others have been trying to help each other in various ways with the delayed payments,
who to contact, what to do etc etc
Some have been polite enough to even alert Nicholas when there was no reply.
There have been questions, doubts and polite inquires addressed to Nicholas.

On keeping clear and open lines of communication.
27th january when this topic was getting hotter, Nicholas replied.

Let's move forward a couple of months.
Unless something odd has happened during this upgrading process or I'm lost (but I have checked over an over) the next reply from Nicholas appears 18th March.
Clear and open lines of communication?

Hi Guys and Gals,
There has been a lot of speculation, and few active cases on this thread. For time constraint reasons, I will try to briefly address those cases involving specific issues:

Hm, nice way to reopen the communication with the members.

Lot of speculation, no kidding how can that be? And now time constraint reasons?

Today, I find three replies from Nicholas to in the Guffe/pipersniper thread. Replies to a person that has lost his mind. Obviously there was no time constraint issues finding and copying an-email from this person in this insane/dead-end thread.

I rest my case.
How about letting Nicholas do his job by himself for a while and see what happens?
To all fans, bring it on, by all means

Former Bet Phoenix player
Emme

 

[Nifty29]

I believe that's the evil thing in Lord of the Rings.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the PAB from Cabrair32. Nothing yet.

Oh I knew it was an evil thing.....just not the one Max described

Can't wait for that PAB.

 

[P.V.]

I personally don't understand all the syndicate accusations and college group accusations and certain towns or areas scamming online casino's.

If the games are truly random then how can anyone scam an online casino?

Sure I can see money laundering through groups of players but when wading though many piles of stink around here I just don't see why software providers/casino's haven't protected their sites better if in fact it's possible to cheat an online casino.

Again I'm thinking if you could actually cheat an online casino, there would be NO online casino's.

Is all of this possible or am I understanding as others have suggested, this is mostly operators without funds looking for excuses to stall, or not pay? If so lack of regulation is to blame.

Technology is too advanced for all this nonsense to be flying around.
The industry is becoming a conspiracy, you're a bonus abuser, you're with a syndicate and so on. Random is Random when playing, am I correct?

Ya can't rig random, sorry.

 

[4 of a kind]

You have your right to your opinion. I respect it. But, just to expand on your logic, then all slots, everywhere, are rigged. Because if you believe all RNGs are rigged, then that would also imply land based slots, since they use RNGs just like online casinos do (the reputable ones)

Of course, this wouldn't necessarily apply if you are speaking of specific rogue software, but based on your innuendos, the above would apply.

In any case, to think that all casinos cheat is a bit of a stretch, since they already have the house edge, no need to do anything illegal, they make plenty of money.

First of all I never said anything in my post about RNGs being rigged. But since you brought it up they are in fact very much rigged, and this would of course include land based casinos. If they weren’t rigged how in gods name could the casinos be guaranteed long term profits? In fact the rigged settings are so precise, they could be set to respond too the decimal point.

I never said anywhere that all online casinos are cheating. In fact I only pinpointed RTG as one of the only software’s I’m aware of that are abusing the pre-rigged settings. The fact is that all RTG operators are not created equal. By this statement I mean that all operators don’t have the same privileges, or to be more blatant, all don’t have keys to super user accounts. How it is RTG decides who gets this privilege I have no idea, but I do know for fact it exists since I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

By abusing the settings I mean nothing more then delivering to the players a much lower setting then advertised. We have been pounded here over and over again how RTG’s, RTPs settings are always in the nineties and never dip below 91.5 or whatever that number was. Dogboy might be a programmer for RTG and certainly knows his stuff, but when it comes to his knowledge of super user accounts, either he knows and is not saying anything, or is not privy to its existence. And to keep this simple I will only relate to the power this access gives the user relating to RTP settings. The fact of the matter is the RTP settings could be set to the low 80’s online also. In addition without any regulators actually regulating these numbers on a strict consistent schedule, who would know for sure how low they could actually be. If players want to accept the selected data online casinos are willing to send to auditors and personally pay for to analyze their pay outs as fact, with the intent of using this data for advertising purposes, then go right ahead and except it.

With the above being said even if the RTP’s were in the 80’s these settings still would not constitute cheating. We all know that Vegas and A.C. are in fact allowed by regulators to use such low settings if they choose to. Of course if they did have all the machines set that low, in no time that casino would be out of business.

So when it comes to RTG software which is the software I witnessed with my own eyes, don’t pound salt up my ass that the settings can’t dip below 91.5. That is what I call cheating.

The problem I have with online casinos is there are no hard core regulators monitoring these settings online, since you’re unable to gather this information from the alleged regulators. With land based casinos these numbers are willfully exposed by the regulators themselves on a month to month schedule. Online players are being brainwashed to believe otherwise.

On a personal note I’d also like to make a few other accusations. I’m not sure what’s going on here with Nicolas and casinomeister but maybe it’s time for Nicolas to come clean and tell everyone here what in fact his bosses really think of Bryan and this whole site. I also will not suffer the consequences of posting private e-mails, or screen shots I have no rights too viewing here or anywhere else. Everyone could pile on and trash my comments as conspiracy, but I hope the smarter ones are listening closely.

And Jetset your comment that I’m “seeking martyrdom” is ridicules. If I was able to gain access to this information, maybe if others would be doing a more sufficient job this information would be brought forward by the alleged people in the know, or maybe that’s the answer in itself.

 

[The Dude]

I personally don't understand all the syndicate accusations and college group accusations and certain towns or areas scamming online casino's....

It has to do with "groups" of players that are actually one or two - maybe three players. It has to do with players having multiple accounts and trying to defraud cainos. This "Pennsylvania" group has been busted out at a couple of RTG casinos already - Cabrair32 is connected to these accounts.

...
On a personal note I’d also like to make a few other accusations. I’m not sure what’s going on here with Nicolas and casinomeister but maybe it’s time for Nicolas to come clean and tell everyone here what in fact his bosses really think of Bryan and this whole site. I also will not suffer the consequences of posting private e-mails, or screen shots I have no rights too viewing here or anywhere else. Everyone could pile on and trash my comments as conspiracy, but I hope the smarter ones are listening closely.

And Jetset your comment that I’m “seeking martyrdom” is ridicules. If I was able to gain access to this information, maybe if others would be doing a more sufficient job this information would be brought forward by the alleged people in the know, or maybe that’s the answer in itself.

Give it a break before you get a time out for being a troll.

I couldn't give a rat's ass what the operators of Betphoenix think of me, or this "whole site." I've never met these guys, so I really don't think they have a clue good or bad.

My record speaks for itself and anyone who thinks otherwise is misguided or misinformed. When I presented expert testimony to a recent major case at the High Court in London, I described in detail "under oath" on how I operate Casinomeister. No bullshit here - that's about as transparent as you can get. So what some RTG operator in Costa Rica thinks of me (good or bad) is inconsequential in my opinion - I couldn't care less.

 

[4 of a kind]

Sorry Bryan for bringing immature petty bullshit into this.

I"ll give the whole thing a rest.

 

[rainmaker]

My record speaks for itself and anyone who thinks otherwise is misguided or misinformed. When I presented expert testimony to a recent major case at the High Court in London, I described in detail "under oath" on how I operate Casinomeister. No bullshit here - that's about as transparent as you can get. So what some RTG operator in Costa Rica thinks of me (good or bad) is inconsequential in my opinion - I couldn't care less.

That was a really great reply !

Who's sorry now

 

[KasinoKing]

First of all I never said anything in my post about RNGs being rigged. But since you brought it up they are in fact very much rigged, and this would of course include land based casinos.
If they weren’t rigged how in gods name could the casinos be guaranteed long term profits? In fact the rigged settings are so precise, they could be set to respond too the decimal point.

Wow - I didn't expect such an unintelligent comment like that from you!
So, for example, you're saying all single-zero roulette tables MUST be rigged in order to ensure they produce a 2.7027% house advantage for the casino?
Seriously?

In any event, if something was going to be rigged, it would be the software, not the RNG.
All a RNG does is produce a random number - nothing more, nothing less.

KK

 

[4 of a kind]

Thank you KasinoKing, I stand corrected.

RTG, RTP, RNG, even veterans like myself at times get confused.

 

[KasinoKing]

@ Everyone,
I know there have been some small, but admittedly unfortunate issues which have negatively effected a very small percentage of our players. Over the next month or two you will see a major change in our business, which we hope will allow us to provide a better, more competitive experience. Something that will not only match your expectations, but surpasses them.

Really?
Well - my breath has never been so baited!
Excuse the sarcasm, but after reading all the nonsense in this thread I seriously don't think there is ANY chance Bet Phoenix will get anywhere close to my expectations.
But I would be totally delighted to be proved wrong!

KK

 

[Nate]

Really?
Well - my breath has never been so baited!
Excuse the sarcasm, but after reading all the nonsense in this thread I seriously don't think there is ANY chance Bet Phoenix will get anywhere close to my expectations.
But I would be totally delighted to be proved wrong!

KK

Nicolas,

You have the heart.... but it is clear that various issues have been ongoing for a while. Like I mentioned earlier, irrelevant of your rating of B+, there are slow pay issues that appear at a few places. Now maybe they have been resolved, but the issue seems to be mentioned here at CM every once in a while too. What is the real issue and why are players at BP being paid so slowly??

Nate

 

[greasemonkey]

It has to do with "groups" of players that are actually one or two - maybe three players. It has to do with players having multiple accounts and trying to defraud cainos. This "Pennsylvania" group has been busted out at a couple of RTG casinos already - Cabrair32 is connected to these accounts.

RTG casinos make you send in multiple documents like imprint of cc used, utiltiy bills, bank statements, signed fax forms and photo ID. Many ask for you to call them or they call you. Some even ask for QT screen shots and/or voided checks. I am sure they can check to see that players don't use the same accounts, the same PCs, the same IPs or even play in the same public area. Ewallets do built in screenings also. For example to fund QT you must provide documentation and they check to make sure the cc that you use to fund is yours or that the bank you send money from is yours. Again to withdraw funds from QT the first time they ask for documents and even call you. EWX was similar and I assume that all ewallets do this sort of thing.

So a person can pretend to be multiple people and fool the ccs, the utility companies, the banks, the internet service providers, the ewallets and the casinos? I'm not buying that at all. Especially when the casinos are the entity that finds this amazing conspiracy out but only after some players win.

Further, I have been labled and kicked out of a few of these places (not bet phoenix). I am from PA. would you again say then that I am part of this "syndicate" also?

I get very frustrated with the ease in which terms like fraudsters, syndicate, scammers...et al. gets thrown around here. The scammers are obvious and you can tell that their stories fall apart quickly with the easiest of questions.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

Now I would like to put things into perspective.

The last months have been turbulent, starting with the delayed payment and cashier issues in january.
During this time, especiallly the first month, members have been very busy.
Some have been stepping up to lead the defense of BP and especially Nicholas Johnson.
Others have been trying to help each other in various ways with the delayed payments,
who to contact, what to do etc etc
Some have been polite enough to even alert Nicholas when there was no reply.
There have been questions, doubts and polite inquires addressed to Nicholas.

On keeping clear and open lines of communication.
27th january when this topic was getting hotter, Nicholas replied.

Let's move forward a couple of months.
Unless something odd has happened during this upgrading process or I'm lost (but I have checked over an over) the next reply from Nicholas appears 18th March.
Clear and open lines of communication?

I'm sorry to say, but you are stretching it. Very far. The thread ended around the time of my last post. Then it got live again during Feb/March, so I posted again.

When the thread is live, I respond. When it isn't active, I don't. I don't see what the issue is. You seem to imply that in order to keep open lines of communication I have to keep bumping threads that are dead. I'm not sure forumites would appreciate this, even though you imply it is necessary on my part.

Hm, nice way to reopen the communication with the members.

Lot of speculation, no kidding how can that be? And now time constraint reasons?

First time I get criticized for being too brief. I guess there is a first for everything. I do think I have answered all the points brought up, so again, I'm not sure what the big deal is.

Today, I find three replies from Nicholas to in the Guffe/pipersniper thread. Replies to a person that has lost his mind. Obviously there was no time constraint issues finding and copying an-email from this person in this insane/dead-end thread.

So you would have rather I ignored a member? Seems like if I communicate you will bash me for it, if I don't, you will also. If I stop posting in a thread you will blame me for ignoring it, but if I post I'm covering up. You have your right to that opinion I guess.

The one thing I completely don't understand, is how you used my copy-pasting of an email as evidence that I waste time on the wrong topics. CTR+C then CTR+V takes me less than a single minute.

I personally don't understand all the syndicate accusations and college group accusations and certain towns or areas scamming online casino's.

If the games are truly random then how can anyone scam an online casino?

This is a Non Sequitur "It does not follow" argument. There are many ways to try and get money; abuse of promos where a positive EV is possible, charge back syndicates, blackmail, etc

The fraud has nothing to do with the randomness of our RNG.

Sure I can see money laundering through groups of players but when wading though many piles of stink around here I just don't see why software providers/casino's haven't protected their sites better if in fact it's possible to cheat an online casino.

The same reason the pentagon and nasa have had issues; it is complicated. If you oversimply anything, then it should be simple. But... reality is far from that.

Again I'm thinking if you could actually cheat an online casino, there would be NO online casino's.

Is all of this possible or am I understanding as others have suggested, this is mostly operators without funds looking for excuses to stall, or not pay? If so lack of regulation is to blame.

You have every right to think that fraud is something that only a casino can commit, and players are incapable of that. But, the reality is different.

Technology is too advanced for all this nonsense to be flying around.
The industry is becoming a conspiracy, you're a bonus abuser, you're with a syndicate and so on. Random is Random when playing, am I correct?

Ya can't rig random, sorry.

It isn't the random part they abuse. Again, you are oversimplifying.

First of all I never said anything in my post about RNGs being rigged. But since you brought it up they are in fact very much rigged, and this would of course include land based casinos.

Wow. If you believe that all casinos are rigged, online and land based, that means you must believe in some type of super conspiracy, where all the governments, gambling employess, gambling watch dogs, 3rd party testing consultant and accreditation services, all regulators, and everyone involved in gambling around the entire world are all in on this massive conspiracy which we don't release to the public. Ever. None of us.

You have every right to believe this, as unlikely as it might be.

If they weren’t rigged how in gods name could the casinos be guaranteed long term profits? In fact the rigged settings are so precise, they could be set to respond too the decimal point.

Because the odds of the game are what give the casino an advantage. In roulette, there is 18 blacks, 18 reds, and 1 or 2 greens. Since there are 37-38 numbers, and that means the odds of winning any one number are 1:37 or 1:38. Since we pay out 35 to 1, there is a margin for us to make money, and be able to operate an entertainment business (which is what gambling is)

I never said anywhere that all online casinos are cheating. In fact I only pinpointed RTG as one of the only software’s I’m aware of that are abusing the pre-rigged settings. The fact is that all RTG operators are not created equal. By this statement I mean that all operators don’t have the same privileges, or to be more blatant, all don’t have keys to super user accounts. How it is RTG decides who gets this privilege I have no idea, but I do know for fact it exists since I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

By abusing the settings I mean nothing more then delivering to the players a much lower setting then advertised. We have been pounded here over and over again how RTG’s, RTPs settings are always in the nineties and never dip below 91.5 or whatever that number was. Dogboy might be a programmer for RTG and certainly knows his stuff, but when it comes to his knowledge of super user accounts, either he knows and is not saying anything, or is not privy to its existence. And to keep this simple I will only relate to the power this access gives the user relating to RTP settings. The fact of the matter is the RTP settings could be set to the low 80’s online also. In addition without any regulators actually regulating these numbers on a strict consistent schedule, who would know for sure how low they could actually be. If players want to accept the selected data online casinos are willing to send to auditors and personally pay for to analyze their pay outs as fact, with the intent of using this data for advertising purposes, then go right ahead and except it.

With the above being said even if the RTP’s were in the 80’s these settings still would not constitute cheating. We all know that Vegas and A.C. are in fact allowed by regulators to use such low settings if they choose to. Of course if they did have all the machines set that low, in no time that casino would be out of business.

So when it comes to RTG software which is the software I witnessed with my own eyes, don’t pound salt up my ass that the settings can’t dip below 91.5. That is what I call cheating.

So... you don't believe other people's claims because they are not-very-well substantiated (to your standards), yet you want us to believe your claims, which by your own admission you have no evidence of, nor can you share any detailed information on?

I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm following.

The problem I have with online casinos is there are no hard core regulators monitoring these settings online, since you’re unable to gather this information from the alleged regulators. With land based casinos these numbers are willfully exposed by the regulators themselves on a month to month schedule. Online players are being brainwashed to believe otherwise.

On a personal note I’d also like to make a few other accusations. I’m not sure what’s going on here with Nicolas and casinomeister but maybe it’s time for Nicolas to come clean and tell everyone here what in fact his bosses really think of Bryan and this whole site.

Huh? What my bosses think of Bryan? I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with anything? Other than being an 'ad hominem attack', and a rather absurd one at that, I don't see what my bosses thoughts on Bryan have to do with this topic.

I also will not suffer the consequences of posting private e-mails, or screen shots I have no rights too viewing here or anywhere else. Everyone could pile on and trash my comments as conspiracy, but I hope the smarter ones are listening closely.

And Jetset your comment that I’m “seeking martyrdom” is ridicules. If I was able to gain access to this information, maybe if others would be doing a more sufficient job this information would be brought forward by the alleged people in the know, or maybe that’s the answer in itself.

So, you found out these 'secrets' of the industry, even though it goes against all the current evidence, we should believe you. Furthermore, you seem to imply we should also know how to access the 'secrets' via means which you won't reveal.

Sorry if I'm miss-interpreting you here 4OAK, but... this makes no sense to me. Please don't take my comments as a form of lack of respect, rather, someone trying to understand the logic to your proposal.

Really?
Well - my breath has never been so baited!
Excuse the sarcasm, but after reading all the nonsense in this thread I seriously don't think there is ANY chance Bet Phoenix will get anywhere close to my expectations.
But I would be totally delighted to be proved wrong!

KK

You have every right to be sarcastic. Most online casinos never make it. Most never will. I don't expect to win any one over with words, but with action. Which, unfortunately, doesn't happen as fast as I would like. But does happen, and I'm in this for the long run.

Nicolas,

You have the heart.... but it is clear that various issues have been ongoing for a while. Like I mentioned earlier, irrelevant of your rating of B+, there are slow pay issues that appear at a few places. Now maybe they have been resolved, but the issue seems to be mentioned here at CM every once in a while too. What is the real issue and why are players at BP being paid so slowly??

Nate

Why? Different reasons. If you want to discuss specific cases, I will try my best without revealing private player info. Although as a whole, I can say, the timing of our launch was quite terrible. I would give the example of a real estate company launching just when the market crashed.

We have had some major adversities. The fact that these adversities have had as little affect on us as they have had (as an overall) is testimony to both good management choices, as well as the strong backing we have from our sportsbook side.

Not that we are perfect, not that we haven't made mistakes, simply, everything in context.

RTG casinos make you send in multiple documents like imprint of cc used, utiltiy bills, bank statements, signed fax forms and photo ID. Many ask for you to call them or they call you. Some even ask for QT screen shots and/or voided checks. I am sure they can check to see that players don't use the same accounts, the same PCs, the same IPs or even play in the same public area. Ewallets do built in screenings also. For example to fund QT you must provide documentation and they check to make sure the cc that you use to fund is yours or that the bank you send money from is yours. Again to withdraw funds from QT the first time they ask for documents and even call you. EWX was similar and I assume that all ewallets do this sort of thing.

So a person can pretend to be multiple people and fool the ccs, the utility companies, the banks, the internet service providers, the ewallets and the casinos? I'm not buying that at all. Especially when the casinos are the entity that finds this amazing conspiracy out but only after some players win.

Further, I have been labled and kicked out of a few of these places (not bet phoenix). I am from PA. would you again say then that I am part of this "syndicate" also?

I get very frustrated with the ease in which terms like fraudsters, syndicate, scammers...et al. gets thrown around here. The scammers are obvious and you can tell that their stories fall apart quickly with the easiest of questions.

Please read my comments about regarding fraud. Also, your assumption that scammers are obvious is false. Basically, you are falling for the logical fallacy of sweeping generalization.

Obvious scammers are obvious. That doesn't mean all scammers are obvious.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

 

[chuchu59]

Thank you KasinoKing, I stand corrected.

RTG, RTP, RNG, even veterans like myself at times get confused.

replace all the middle letters with 'I' and i am sure you will get what you want.

 

[Cabrair32]

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the PAB from Cabrair32. Nothing yet.

Are you serious? I don't know how to take that. Are you being sarcastic or serious?

I ask because it seems as though you have already lumped me in to some group of players. Why would I then take the time to submit a complaint if you are already thinking that way?

FWIW, if you didn't take the time to look into it, I have 2 current PABs. Neither has been resolved. If you were not aware, I had been a member at slots plus for over 5 years. Now all the sudden I am part of a "syndicate". I think not. Just because a casino says it doesnt make it so. I have my play history from bet phx. If you actually read these posts and believe that a syndicate came through and bet like I did then I don't know what to tell ya'. That means the world is upside down and crazy then I guess. Regardless, would there be any point at all in filing a pAB? Your posts threw me under the bus already so I really don't know how to take you at this point.

 

[Cabrair32]

Can you please PM me your casino user ID? I'll double check to make sure you aren't getting wrongly lumped into the wrong category. I'll be terribly sorry if you have been. If you haven't broken any rules, I'll be glad to make sure you get paid. :notworthy

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

I sent the PM. Did you investigate and find that there was not one single rule broken? It should be an easy investigation. I have my play history if you would like me to send it to you. It will prove that there was no big betting followed by low betting grinding or whatever. Not one rule was broken and I'm sure it is easy to see that. Definitely not the 50% rule that you have now tried twice to steal my winnings on.

 

[4 of a kind]

Wow. If you believe that all casinos are rigged, online and land based, that means you must believe in some type of super conspiracy, where all the governments, gambling employess, gambling watch dogs, 3rd party testing consultant and accreditation services, all regulators, and everyone involved in gambling around the entire world are all in on this massive conspiracy which we don't release to the public. Ever. None of us.

You have every right to believe this, as unlikely as it might be.



Because the odds of the game are what give the casino an advantage. In roulette, there is 18 blacks, 18 reds, and 1 or 2 greens. Since there are 37-38 numbers, and that means the odds of winning any one number are 1:37 or 1:38. Since we pay out 35 to 1, there is a margin for us to make money, and be able to operate an entertainment business (which is what gambling is)

I have no idea what your even talking about here. Are you actually comparing live table games percentages to slot machine RTP settings? How did you get that out of my post? Your really starting to look foolish here.

As far as the boss comments, I agree it was completely out of line and uncalled for. I already apologized to Bryan and also owe you an apology. I'm sorry for the cheap shot.

I told Bryan I was going to give this a break and will. If you don't want to discuss the facts and instead prefer to wander off into another atmosphere, I would suggest you do the same.

 

[chuchu59]

Are you serious? I don't know how to take that. Are you being sarcastic or serious?

I ask because it seems as though you have already lumped me in to some group of players. Why would I then take the time to submit a complaint if you are already thinking that way?

FWIW, if you didn't take the time to look into it, I have 2 current PABs. Neither has been resolved. If you were not aware, I had been a member at slots plus for over 5 years. Now all the sudden I am part of a "syndicate". I think not. Just because a casino says it doesnt make it so. I have my play history from bet phx. If you actually read these posts and believe that a syndicate came through and bet like I did then I don't know what to tell ya'. That means the world is upside down and crazy then I guess. Regardless, would there be any point at all in filing a pAB? Your posts threw me under the bus already so I really don't know how to take you at this point.

i honestly think you are the one to make assumptions. with this sort of attitude i dont really think that bryan/maxd should help you out. i am pretty sure bryan gathered a lot of facts before he made his statements. his history of helping players out speaks for itself.

in this sense, my thinking is that you are afraid to PAB insteadof your saying there is no point in doing so. Show some respect for the man will ya?

 

[NicolasJohnson]

I have no idea what your even talking about here. Are you actually comparing live table games percentages to slot machine RTP settings? How did you get that out of my post? Your really starting to look foolish here.

As far as the boss comments, I agree it was completely out of line and uncalled for. I already apologized to Bryan and also owe you an apology. I'm sorry for the cheap shot.

I told Bryan I was going to give this a break and will. If you don't want to discuss the facts and instead prefer to wander off into another atmosphere, I would suggest you do the same.

Regarding the table game comparison, please let me explain, I can see I didn't explain it well.

My point is, in slots, the odds of an event happening are fixed. This is like the odds of a roulette number coming out. They are fixed. Although I admit in the roulette you can physically see it.

The payout is also fixed. If you hit certain symbols, like in roulette your number coming out is paid 35 to 1, it is also fixed. Both online and off, you can see what a certain combination pays.

The RTP is calculated based on the odds of certain events happenings, and the payout if those odds happen (just like in roulette, 1 in 37 odds of happening, 35 to 1 payout = 1/37 house edge, or 2.70%, which means a RTP of 97.3% for any single number bet on roulette)

The RNG, basically just simulates what the ball and wheel rolling in opposite directions does; it creates randomness of the outcome.

The RNG can't be rigged or it wouldn't be an RNG. It is that simple.

If there is any rigging going on, it would be at the level of the odds of an event happening. A comparison would be if a land based casino put more lower denomination cards into a 8 deck Blackjack shoe, or took out Aces. However, given the amount of organizations and individuals involved in the gaming industry across the entire planet, you'd think they would have blown the whistle on a massive conspiracy of the level you suggest 4oak.

Please accept my apologies for not having been clearer on the roulette analogy.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

 

[Cabrair32]

i honestly think you are the one to make assumptions. with this sort of attitude i dont really think that bryan/maxd should help you out. i am pretty sure bryan gathered a lot of facts before he made his statements. his history of helping players out speaks for itself.

in this sense, my thinking is that you are afraid to PAB insteadof your saying there is no point in doing so. Show some respect for the man will ya?

chuchu, with all due respect I think you have a very wrong interpretation of my post.

What did I say that was disrespectful? I asked if Bryan was being serious or if he was being sarcastic. That is an honest question. Why would you come on here and suggest that YOU don't think Bryan or Max should help me? What purpose is this serving? Are you SURE Bryan gathered all of his facts before he made his statements? I don't think he did. That is why I mentioned it. I wasnt being disrespectful or arrogant or anything like that and I didn't have an attitude. In the past Bryan has made mistakes in judgement prior to getting all of the facts. It so happens that I am being affected by that now and what am I supposed to do? Just remain silent in awe and respect?

Chuchu and others, please put yourself in the position of being wrongfully stolen from. The only place that you really believe will give you any help (that is kudos to Bryan and Max by the way if you didn't catch that) is already of the assumption that you must be guilty because a casino said so. While I plead my case I get side swiped by some of my peers on this board saying that I should not get help or that I am likely lying. How should I react to this? I am being very calm and asking that you don't blur the picture with erroneous statements or misinformed, knee jerk reactions. You know what though? I can see how some innocent players could get so irate that they go off the deep end.

put yourself in this postion:
It would be like if you were accused of something and the judge was basically saying that he thinks your guilty BEFORE EVER HEARING THE TRIAL (speaking of getting all his facts straight. I have not even pab'd yet - he could not have all of his facts) because he also heard that you were accused of a crime earlier in the year... and in the meantime all of the people are screaming guilty, don't help him, he must be a liar if he is accused.... Then wouldn't you start to get a bit angry at those people? Sure, we all would. BUT around here if you were to get angry and lash out at a wrongful accuser or somebody being sarcastic and possibly hurting your chances at an IMPARTIAL trial then that is used as proof of your guilt.
It is. If this happend, chuchu and others, to you. and if you then got angry at me for example because I suggested that you are a liar and that you are guilty and that you should get no help. Even if I have no proof of this I am free to say it but if you get angry and respond to defend yourself you are deemed guilty. If you don't defend yourself you are deemed guilty. So what would you do?
Well, when the shoe is on the other foot I hope nobody does this to you. I know that I don't unless I have all the facts. I would only ask a question. i wouldn't try to pile on and assert guilt without seeing the facts.

In this case especially when I have been accused by betphx of breaking their 50% bet rule. Luckily I have the play history to prove otherwise. Then I was accused again and a 2nd time having my 4 month cashout confiscated. They must have forgotten I have the play history to prove otherwise. Then I was accused in this very thread of betting big then dropping to low wagers in order to abuse the bonus. I have the play history. I again proved differently. Now I am being called part of a syndicate and defrauding the casino. WHICH IS IT? The answer is none of the above. They have tried to assert any and every rule they can to simply not pay me the cashout that I have been waiting for since November.

In any case, yes, I will show respect for anyone on this board who affords me the same respect. i will not disrespect Bryan nor would I expect him to disrespect me. NOR WILL I DISRESPECT YOU. Please don't do it to me again.

Chuchu, I DO respect you and like your posts. I certainly don't want a run in with you. I seriously think you misinterpreted my post. There was no disrespect there. Just facts.

 

[Cabrair32]

I sent the PM. Did you investigate and find that there was not one single rule broken? It should be an easy investigation. I have my play history if you would like me to send it to you. It will prove that there was no big betting followed by low betting grinding or whatever. Not one rule was broken and I'm sure it is easy to see that. Definitely not the 50% rule that you have now tried twice to steal my winnings on.

bump for Nicolas Johnson.

 

[Nifty29]

chuchu, with all due respect I think you have a very wrong interpretation of my post.

What did I say that was disrespectful? I asked if Bryan was being serious or if he was being sarcastic. That is an honest question. Why would you come on here and suggest that YOU don't think Bryan or Max should help me? What purpose is this serving? Are you SURE Bryan gathered all of his facts before he made his statements? I don't think he did. That is why I mentioned it. I wasnt being disrespectful or arrogant or anything like that and I didn't have an attitude. In the past Bryan has made mistakes in judgement prior to getting all of the facts. It so happens that I am being affected by that now and what am I supposed to do? Just remain silent in awe and respect?

Chuchu and others, please put yourself in the position of being wrongfully stolen from. The only place that you really believe will give you any help (that is kudos to Bryan and Max by the way if you didn't catch that) is already of the assumption that you must be guilty because a casino said so. While I plead my case I get side swiped by some of my peers on this board saying that I should not get help or that I am likely lying. How should I react to this? I am being very calm and asking that you don't blur the picture with erroneous statements or misinformed, knee jerk reactions. You know what though? I can see how some innocent players could get so irate that they go off the deep end.

put yourself in this postion:
It would be like if you were accused of something and the judge was basically saying that he thinks your guilty BEFORE EVER HEARING THE TRIAL (speaking of getting all his facts straight. I have not even pab'd yet - he could not have all of his facts) because he also heard that you were accused of a crime earlier in the year... and in the meantime all of the people are screaming guilty, don't help him, he must be a liar if he is accused.... Then wouldn't you start to get a bit angry at those people? Sure, we all would. BUT around here if you were to get angry and lash out at a wrongful accuser or somebody being sarcastic and possibly hurting your chances at an IMPARTIAL trial then that is used as proof of your guilt.
It is. If this happend, chuchu and others, to you. and if you then got angry at me for example because I suggested that you are a liar and that you are guilty and that you should get no help. Even if I have no proof of this I am free to say it but if you get angry and respond to defend yourself you are deemed guilty. If you don't defend yourself you are deemed guilty. So what would you do?
Well, when the shoe is on the other foot I hope nobody does this to you. I know that I don't unless I have all the facts. I would only ask a question. i wouldn't try to pile on and assert guilt without seeing the facts.

In this case especially when I have been accused by betphx of breaking their 50% bet rule. Luckily I have the play history to prove otherwise. Then I was accused again and a 2nd time having my 4 month cashout confiscated. They must have forgotten I have the play history to prove otherwise. Then I was accused in this very thread of betting big then dropping to low wagers in order to abuse the bonus. I have the play history. I again proved differently. Now I am being called part of a syndicate and defrauding the casino. WHICH IS IT? The answer is none of the above. They have tried to assert any and every rule they can to simply not pay me the cashout that I have been waiting for since November.

In any case, yes, I will show respect for anyone on this board who affords me the same respect. i will not disrespect Bryan nor would I expect him to disrespect me. NOR WILL I DISRESPECT YOU. Please don't do it to me again.

Chuchu, I DO respect you and like your posts. I certainly don't want a run in with you. I seriously think you misinterpreted my post. There was no disrespect there. Just facts.

If you ARE INNOCENT, then STOP playing it all out in public and PAB as you have been INVITED to do by Bryan.

The more you carry on the more it looks like you have something to hide.

 

[greasemonkey]

If you ARE INNOCENT, then STOP playing it all out in public and PAB as you have been INVITED to do by Bryan.

The more you carry on the more it looks like you have something to hide.

I agree totally. As long as you are telling the truth in your post it should be a slam dunk win for you. If you bet the way you claim and the casino really did try to use other ways to not pay you first....etc. Then its probably a no brainer. You are hurting your PAB by airing it out here.

Q: I have already, or would like to, post about my complaint on the message boards. Is that a good idea?


A: No, it is not a good idea. A PAB is a private negotiation process and it works because it gives the casino people the best possible opportunity to resolve your issue calmly and fairly in talks with professional industry people without the burden of external pressures or influence.

A message posted on the boards is quite the opposite: it creates a very public public-relations issue that the casino people generally feel forced to contain, or ignore, as best they can.

Because of the pressures involved a forum post on a given issue will usually derail any PABs that are in progress on that issue, and this is why we advise that forum posts be withheld until the PAB process has had a chance to run it's course.

We reserve the right to discard any PAB that where that same issue has been posted to the boards. This relates to threads started by, or contributions to other threads by, the person who filed the PAB. This applies equally to posts made before or after the PAB was filed.

In other words in the case where the material was posted before the PAB was filed we will determine whether those posts would damage or thwart the PAB process before we decide if we will proceed with the PAB. In the case where the material was posted after the PAB was filed there is a very high probability that we will suspend or discard the PAB at that point.

Once we indicate that we are finished with a PAB the person who filed it is free to post about the issue as they see fit (all the usual Casinomeister Forum Rules are applicable).

 

[Cabrair32]

Fair enough guys. I got ahead of myself and I posted too much, your right. I was responding to chuchu and got a bit long winded.

I still do need to know if Bryan is being serious with me on sending in a PAB. He just kinda made it seem like it would be pointless earlier in the thread and I get the feeling he would not be looking at it in terms of an individual case but as a bunch of cases all together. I am hoping this is free of prejudice but let's hear from Bryan first and also I am waiting on Nicolas who said that if he went back and looked at my play logs and could not see where I broke a rule that he would take care of it. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt as is the way it is supposed to work prior to filing a PAB. I am expecting Nicolas to just take care of this as there were no broken terms. So hopefully this is long and forgotten soon.

 

[chuchu59]

Fair enough guys. I got ahead of myself and I posted too much, your right. I was responding to chuchu and got a bit long winded.

I still do need to know if Bryan is being serious with me on sending in a PAB. He just kinda made it seem like it would be pointless earlier in the thread and I get the feeling he would not be looking at it in terms of an individual case but as a bunch of cases all together. I am hoping this is free of prejudice but let's hear from Bryan first and also I am waiting on Nicolas who said that if he went back and looked at my play logs and could not see where I broke a rule that he would take care of it. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt as is the way it is supposed to work prior to filing a PAB. I am expecting Nicolas to just take care of this as there were no broken terms. So hopefully this is long and forgotten soon.

yep just keep your cool. i am certain you will be given fair treatment from cm and maxd.ruling on pabs is not a science and naturally not all affected parties will be happy with the end result. patience my friend.

 

[maxd]

FWIW, if you didn't take the time to look into it, I have 2 current PABs. Neither has been resolved.

Not true:
- Lock Casino '10 Jul 23 : on hold and inactive due to suspected fraud.
- Slots Plus '10 Dec 07 : as of 08 March this was bounced back to you because the casino was trying to contact you regarding serious problems with your documents and you weren't cooperating.

In both cases the casino has problems with you due to suspected fraud and identity verification issues. "Not resolved" is hardly an appropriate way to describe either situation.

The point is that you have a history of fraud-related problems at a number of unrelated casinos. Like it or not that's the reality of your situation so please spare us your protestations of innocence and cries for impartiality. You may be innocent but the onus is very much on you to start proving it.

 

[Cabrair32]

Not true:
- Lock Casino '10 Jul 23 : on hold and inactive due to suspected fraud.
- Slots Plus '10 Dec 07 : as of 08 March this was bounced back to you because the casino was trying to contact you regarding serious problems with your documents and you weren't cooperating.

In both cases the casino has problems with you due to suspected fraud and identity verification issues. "Not resolved" is hardly an appropriate way to describe either situation.

The point is that you have a history of fraud-related problems at a number of unrelated casinos. Like it or not that's the reality of your situation so please spare us your protestations of innocence and cries for impartiality. You may be innocent but the onus is very much on you to start proving it.

Holy cow!

This is so strange. So bizarre. So mishandled.

Firstly just now when I read this did I actually go to GMAIL (which I never use but I had to sign up for in order to PAB the first time I use Ymail as my email ). This is the first time that I have seen any of these emails from YOU actually. You sent one to me just on the 8th stating there were issues that the casino could not contact me. The only other contact that I ever realized that you had sent me was via PM on this site. I totally mishandled this I can see. My fault on the lack of communication I wasn't checking the gmail account. This could have saved so much drama. I apologize.
Well, there are a few odd things about that. First is that they contacted me easily enough to say they were stealing my funds. 2nd is that I left several emails and PMs on this site with them at no response. I went to live chat and was not able to speak to anyone further than the support rep.
Remember Max, I have been a member for YEARS at this casino. My email and telephone has changed in that time. I would be ecstatic to be able to send them documents and speak with them and give them anything they wanted to show my identity.
I will stop posting about the slots plus issue and follow that up with an email back to you for further info... and I will include my ID and such if that would help. I just will need the stuff forwarded since they don't seem to respond to my emails. I will be emailing you shortly.


EDIT: To add last comment,
Max, sent you an email. I will just be looking for this to play out via email at this point. I appreciate your time and am so happy that I have found this out. I look fwd to your responses. Thanks again.

To the others following this, I am really confident now that I can see where the misunderstandings were. I will surely post about this after it has been cleared up. until then I really shouldn't.

 

[maxd]

Firstly just now when I read this did I actually go to GMAIL (which I never use but I had to sign up for in order to PAB the first time I use Ymail as my email ). This is the first time that I have seen any of these emails from YOU actually.

Yes, how strange indeed, especially since I sent the emails to both addresses. And also strange since you do this every time we have an issue, no responses from you until you have no other choice, or until it is useful to you for you to respond.

Not responding to my emails regarding the PABs is sufficient grounds to withdraw your PAB privileges. You might want to remember that next time you want to start howling for justice and fair play.

 

[Nifty29]

I have to say cabrair:....your behaviour is not what I'd expect from someone wanting to prove their innocence. Quite the opposite I'd say.

You should consider yourself very fortunate that Max has been generous enough to extend your opportunity to continue your PABs and submit another. If it were me I would have sent you packing months ago.

The ONLY explanation I can entertain as to why you WON'T provide the documents required is because you CAN'T.

 

[Emmeline]

I'm sorry to say, but you are stretching it. Very far. The thread ended around the time of my last post. Then it got live again during Feb/March, so I posted again.

Ok. Maybe I was a bit unclear. I will try to clearify and keep to facts.
I appreciate anyone striving to keep open lines of communication, but this has not been my personal experience with Bet Phoenix so far. That's why I reacted so strongly to your statement.

This thread started 16th january with people discussing their different experiences with Bet Phoenix.
17th - the first post about delayed payment
20th - the first post about cashier being down
20th - you addressed some questions - but not the cashier issue
20th - member addressing the cashier issue
23th - same member addressing this question to you
23th - info about the cashier was posted from member who chatted with you

At that point I was extremely frustrated, having some winnings I wanted to withdraw. I would certainly have appreciated not having to rely on second hand information. Especially since the casino support didn't help out much, if they could be reached at all, neither did I receive any e-mail explaining the situation.

When the thread is live, I respond. When it isn't active, I don't. I don't see what the issue is. You seem to imply that in order to keep open lines of communication I have to keep bumping threads that are dead. I'm not sure forumites would appreciate this, even though you imply it is necessary on my part.

I agree to some point, there was not much happening in this thread for a while but
from 10th of mars the thread was imo not dead.

Originally posted by deucebag 10 march

I disagree. I won $7-8k last May, and still haven't been paid in full from that. The first payment was quick, but since then it's been a joke. I've contacted Nicolas twice through PM, and the first time it resulted in a payment, but I have not been paid anything in 3 months now.

BetPhoenix haven't responded to emails in months either, and live chat never works (suspect I'm chat banned).

Filed a complaint with CDS today, so let's see how that goes.

If you play there, make sure you don't win more than what will be paid in one installment. They don't like bigger winners.

Again, the field is all open for speculation until your reply 18th mars.
Some nasty things were said about Bet Phoenix during this week also. This is not what I call open lines. Maybe issues are being addressed but not in the open for some time and imo they need to be.
I say this as a former player, as a member of this forum and as a professional in the area of communication and marketing.

First time I get criticized for being too brief. I guess there is a first for everything. I do think I have answered all the points brought up, so again, I'm not sure what the big deal is.

So you would have rather I ignored a member? Seems like if I communicate you will bash me for it, if I don't, you will also. If I stop posting in a thread you will blame me for ignoring it, but if I post I'm covering up. You have your right to that opinion I guess.

The one thing I completely don't understand, is how you used my copy-pasting of an email as evidence that I waste time on the wrong topics. CTR+C then CTR+V takes me less than a single minute.

No, I would not rather have you ignore the member. It was a reflection on how imo major issues have been left in the open for some time, but this one was immediately responded to. But that was a bit of a stretch on my part, for that I apologise.

As for my other personal experiences with Bet Phoenix. I have remained a member after uncountable issues, server errors, being logged out repeatedly playing tournaments and thereafter being told to get some proof of it. I can't remember all these technical difficulties (that I don't experience at other RTG:s) No replies to some e-mails, waiting up to 45 min in live chat, lots of tournaments have been cancelled after I played them, being overpaid (ok it could be worse) it was returned btw, delayed payment and then the cashier problem.
Despite of this, if future proves what you say it will, I will certainly give it a try again.
Until then I will say no more unless I am addressed.

Best regards
Emme

 

[chuchu59]

EMME, that was a good summary.saved me plenty of time going thru posts in detail. you were very gracious in addressing the issues tactfully.

 

[slotaddict]

I have to say cabrair:....your behaviour is not what I'd expect from someone wanting to prove their innocence. Quite the opposite I'd say.

You should consider yourself very fortunate that Max has been generous enough to extend your opportunity to continue your PABs and submit another. If it were me I would have sent you packing months ago.

The ONLY explanation I can entertain as to why you WON'T provide the documents required is because you CAN'T.

Nifty29, what is the purpose of this post exactly? I cannot understand why you do this. What are you trying to accomplish? It is detrimental to the OP for certain. It sets a tone. It is negative. You have no information more than we have by reading this thread do you? Why would you undermine another forum member like this?

You are making big assumptions and it is helping no one. I hope that nobody does this to you if you ever need help.

 

[slotaddict]

This subject has taken many turns and odd twists but I still am curious as to why it is taking months for these players to get paid if at all? Why were some being partially paid for months? How does a casino operate like this? The time frames are clearly worse than the virtual group ever dreamed of. At this point what is not rogue about this particular casino? What about the poor players that have never heard of Casinomeister and cannot put pressure on the rep to get paid? How many are there out there in the world just not getting paid? One would have to surmise it is a large number.
None of these queries have been answered in this entire thread.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

Ok. Maybe I was a bit unclear. I will try to clearify and keep to facts.
I appreciate anyone striving to keep open lines of communication, but this has not been my personal experience with Bet Phoenix so far. That's why I reacted so strongly to your statement.

This thread started 16th january with people discussing their different experiences with Bet Phoenix.
17th - the first post about delayed payment
20th - the first post about cashier being down
20th - you addressed some questions - but not the cashier issue
20th - member addressing the cashier issue
23th - same member addressing this question to you
23th - info about the cashier was posted from member who chatted with you

At that point I was extremely frustrated, having some winnings I wanted to withdraw. I would certainly have appreciated not having to rely on second hand information. Especially since the casino support didn't help out much, if they could be reached at all, neither did I receive any e-mail explaining the situation.

I agree to some point, there was not much happening in this thread for a while but
from 10th of mars the thread was imo not dead.

I can see your point, I should have been more responsive in that time. I'll make sure this does not happen again.

Again, the field is all open for speculation until your reply 18th mars.
Some nasty things were said about Bet Phoenix during this week also. This is not what I call open lines. Maybe issues are being addressed but not in the open for some time and imo they need to be.
I say this as a former player, as a member of this forum and as a professional in the area of communication and marketing.




No, I would not rather have you ignore the member. It was a reflection on how imo major issues have been left in the open for some time, but this one was immediately responded to. But that was a bit of a stretch on my part, for that I apologise.

As for my other personal experiences with Bet Phoenix. I have remained a member after uncountable issues, server errors, being logged out repeatedly playing tournaments and thereafter being told to get some proof of it. I can't remember all these technical difficulties (that I don't experience at other RTG:s) No replies to some e-mails, waiting up to 45 min in live chat, lots of tournaments have been cancelled after I played them, being overpaid (ok it could be worse) it was returned btw, delayed payment and then the cashier problem.
Despite of this, if future proves what you say it will, I will certainly give it a try again.
Until then I will say no more unless I am addressed.

Best regards
Emme

Emme, truly, thank you. Your well written explanation lets me see your point of view. I completely understand what you mean with all the issues we have faced. We are working on making a major change, which will be release in a month or so, and which will help us serve our customers better.

Again, thank you for explaining everything in such a patient manner. Sometimes I'm a little thick and it takes a while for me to 'get it'

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty29, what is the purpose of this post exactly? I cannot understand why you do this. What are you trying to accomplish? It is detrimental to the OP for certain. It sets a tone. It is negative. You have no information more than we have by reading this thread do you? Why would you undermine another forum member like this?

You are making big assumptions and it is helping no one. I hope that nobody does this to you if you ever need help.

Listen sunshine......I've been around here a long time and have helped, and been helped by, other members when there were LEGITIMATE issues with a casino...so don't waltz in here after being around five minutes and think you know what I'm about.

FYI I was simply voicing my OPINION based on the information in this thread, along with a decade of reading complaints here at CM......and seeing a large majority of 'innocent' players turn out to be lying scumbags.

If the player was SERIOUS about proving his innocence he would have PROVIDED all the document requested 6 months ago. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to draw some sort of conclusion from the fact that cabrair is looking to submit his THIRD PAB in less than a year AND been involved in several OTHER situations with other casinos - unless of course one is somehow involved in the same kind of behaviour....??? Remember, the other PABs are unresolved because the PLAYER will not provide anything that Max has requested...that imo is a HUGE red flag.

Anyway, if you think that MY view is going to influence any decision Bryan or Max make then you obviously don't know them at all.

If im wrong and cabrair turns out to be a victim of the nasty casinos I.e all the allegations are false, then its $50 from me to your favorite charity.

 

[The Dude]

Are we satisfied that Bet Phoenix is handling the player issues in this thread sufficiently, or are there other comments or issues that need to be discussed?

 

[Emmeline]

To Nicolas,
It seems your pm folder has exceeded the quota and no further messages are accepted. I post it here because I don't know how often you read the public messages.


Best Regards
Emme

 

[NicolasJohnson]

Are we satisfied that Bet Phoenix is handling the player issues in this thread sufficiently, or are there other comments or issues that need to be discussed?

As far as I'm concerned legitimate players have been taken care of. Thanks for looking into it.

To Nicolas,
It seems your pm folder has exceeded the quota and no further messages are accepted. I post it here because I don't know how often you read the public messages.


Best Regards
Emme

Sorry about that Emme, I have cleared out a few messages, so you shouldn't have any issues now.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

 

[yorimisori]

Me too! I started playing casino a couple of years ago, from the very start, that was so amazing, I'm so happy every time I play and win. That's a funny thoughts! Every experience in casino is such a memorable moment for me.

 

[slotaddict]

Listen sunshine......I've been around here a long time and have helped, and been helped by, other members when there were LEGITIMATE issues with a casino...so don't waltz in here after being around five minutes and think you know what I'm about.

I have lurked for a while and I have read enough here to know that you have run-ins with many, many posters and that you are sometimes exceedingly rude. Such as your reply to me.
I didn't try to pick a fight with you. I am simply pointing out that this kind of posting is nothing more than grandstanding and it is insulting to the posters. It is disrespectful to say the least.

FYI I was simply voicing my OPINION based on the information in this thread, along with a decade of reading complaints here at CM......and seeing a large majority of 'innocent' players turn out to be lying scumbags.

If the player was SERIOUS about proving his innocence he would have PROVIDED all the document requested 6 months ago. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to draw some sort of conclusion from the fact that cabrair is looking to submit his THIRD PAB in less than a year AND been involved in several OTHER situations with other casinos - unless of course one is somehow involved in the same kind of behaviour....??? Remember, the other PABs are unresolved because the PLAYER will not provide anything that Max has requested...that imo is a HUGE red flag.

perhaps we read different facts. I believe the poster claims to have just found the emails today after Max posted that he had not sent in documentation and responded to them. Cabrair's story is odd that he had to open up a new email address and I didn't buy that at all, but low and behold, when you view the FAQ of the PAB forms it directly says to open a gmail or gmx account - his story checked out. So then if you read the claim is that it was only used for this pab and that the poster nearly forgot about the gmail account. It is possible. Why throw stones at this poster until you know? You do NOT know,nor should you speculate or defame. The poster also sounded confident in their ability to supply anything requested. I did not catch the "several other situations" from this thread.

If im wrong and cabrair turns out to be a victim of the nasty casinos I.e all the allegations are false, then its $50 from me to your favorite charity.

That is a deal that I cannot refuse
childhospice.org.uk

 

[maxd]

I believe the poster claims to have just found the emails today ....

Perhaps he did but it's not the first time he's "rediscovered" this email account. I have emails from him in December regarding a previous PAB, and that's not the first PAB he's used it on. And there's also the (conveniently overlooked) fact that I sent my emails to both his email addresses including his regular one, not just the "forgotten" account.

For whatever reason this person is very economical in his email correspondence: when he wants something he has no problem finding his emails and responding accordingly; when someone wants something from him it's a different story. Sure, his innocence in all of this is possible but at the very least it's a pretty funky way for him to handle issues he says he cares so much about.

Cabrair's story is odd that he had to open up a new email address ....

He's had that account for at least 10 months because he provided that address in his original PAB in July 2010. He's used it on two PABs now so it's not as if he had to run out and open the thing last week.

... but low and behold, when you view the FAQ of the PAB forms it directly says to open a gmail or gmx account - his story checked out.

That's not what the FAQ says at all. It says:

Using email addresses from Yahoo, AOL or Hotmail is not acceptable ...

If you do not provide a valid 'contact email' address in your Pitch-A-Bitch submission your issue WILL BE DELAYED until you correct this error. Please don't waste our time by using Yahoo, AOL, ATT.net or Hotmail addresses here: get a more reliable email address.

FYI, Google Mail seems to work nicely. GMX.com is good too. There are many, many other free and reliable email services.

This is repeated many times throughout the FAQ. So no, no one is forced to open a Gmail or GMX account, those are just suggestions.

... Why throw stones at this poster until you know? You do NOT know, nor should you speculate or defame.

Nifty has already mentioned the unfortunate fact that many, many player issues turn out to be fraud-related, in one way or another. Being critical of what is said and claimed is simply a necessary reality. Nifty is as free as anyone to do so.

... The poster also sounded confident in their ability to supply anything requested.

FYI "sounding confident" is a specialty of fraudsters, then almost all do it with great vigor. Con artists used to be called "confidence men" and for good reason, it's part of their MO (modus operandi, "A known criminal's established habits and mode of work when committing specific offences, especially fraud...").

IMO "sounding confident" is just another monkey fart in the jungle when it comes to analysing and dealing with these issues: it is unimportant and insignificant. What matters is what people do, not what they say they'll do and certainly not how they say it. So far it appears that this person has "documentation issues" at at least three different and unrelated casinos. That's definitely an anomaly worth noting and red-flagging, which is what we -- and Nifty it seems -- have done.

 

[Nifty29]

I have lurked for a while and I have read enough here to know that you have run-ins with many, many posters and that you are sometimes exceedingly rude. Such as your reply to me.
I didn't try to pick a fight with you. I am simply pointing out that this kind of posting is nothing more than grandstanding and it is insulting to the posters. It is disrespectful to say the least.




perhaps we read different facts. I believe the poster claims to have just found the emails today after Max posted that he had not sent in documentation and responded to them. Cabrair's story is odd that he had to open up a new email address and I didn't buy that at all, but low and behold, when you view the FAQ of the PAB forms it directly says to open a gmail or gmx account - his story checked out. So then if you read the claim is that it was only used for this pab and that the poster nearly forgot about the gmail account. It is possible. Why throw stones at this poster until you know? You do NOT know,nor should you speculate or defame. The poster also sounded confident in their ability to supply anything requested. I did not catch the "several other situations" from this thread.




That is a deal that I cannot refuse
childhospice.org.uk

What Max said.

 

[yorimisori]

Yori Misori

Yeah your right! Even when the first time I saw this forum site, I feel great, and I love mingling with other people even I haven't met her/him personally. There're so many chances to win and edges among the others. Thanks guys!

 

[mbart64]

If I was to ever play here I would need some sort of explanation as to why it is taking months to pay players, Why some are being paid in segments of their cashouts and why you made multiple excuses to not pay one of these guys and are still scuffling in attempt to not pay? These questions still have not been properly addressed, IMO.

 

[Nifty29]

If I was to ever play here I would need some sort of explanation as to why it is taking months to pay players, Why some are being paid in segments of their cashouts and why you made multiple excuses to not pay one of these guys and are still scuffling in attempt to not pay? These questions still have not been properly addressed, IMO.

You're right.

The important questions have NOT been answered.

It's about time they were.

 

[takethemoney]

Somewhere back, I think they have already explained that they are not going to be changing their payout times anytime soon. The casino has established itself. Choose to play or not, but the voice of the customer is not going to swing their business model.