Betoto.com (Bet and Win) wont let me cashout - all requirements met

[Lukas85]

Hi everyone,
on 12-16-05 I recieved this promotion email from betoto.com:

Exclusive for your user ID xxxx:
We will double your first deposit of at least EUR 10 made by 31/12/2005. Go ahead and earn yourself up to EUR 50!

Good luck
Your betoto team

the bonus terms stated the following:

An amount totalling 40-times the bonus value must be wagered on one or more games at betoto Casino before a payout of the bonus is allowed (excluding roulette). This point must be executed within 60 days after receiving the bonus, or the bonus will lose its validity. Before the bonus can be used, the entire amount exchanged into casino chips must be wagered

I then made a deposit of 50 EUR using Moneybookers and recieved another 50 EUR as "playable bonus" giving me a total of 100 EUR to play with.
I started playing Blackjack (a non-excluded game!) and in course of my session (probably after 140 EUR the casino will later refer to) I had lost my entire deposit leaving me only (parts of) the 50 EUR bonus to play with.
Luckily after wagering far more than 2000 EUR (40x50EUR) I ended up with a balance of 315 EUR - all in "playable bonus" since I had used to bonus to generate it after losing my deposit and going on playing with the bonus.
However since I had met the wagering requirements and was therefore ought ot be allowed to cashin the entire balance I contacted support..

Thats where the BS begins:

Here´s my entire corespondence with them:

Hello,

could you please tell me how much more
I need to wager in order to request a cashout?
I´m quite sure that I´ve wagered more than the
required 2000 EUR (50EUR bonus x 40 ) on non
excluded games however my entire balance in the
amount of 315 EUR ist still being held as non-
withdrawable bonus money. Could you please check
on that for me ? Thanks!

best regards

Lukas E.- USER ID xxxxx

their answer:

Dear Mr. E.

Thank you for your mail.

We inform that you at this time have wagered 140 chips. The wagering requirement is 2000.00 so you still need to wager 1860 chips.

We inform that you can only wager the chips in real money chips, and you cannot use the bonus chips for this. You have at this time no real money chips in your account, and if you wish to wager the bonus you will have to transfer real money to the casino.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.

I sent this as an answer:

I´m afraid I don´t understand: I´ve wagered more than 2000 EUR on a non-excluded game (Blackjack).!
Therefore I´m ought to be allowed to cashout my entire balance!

in your terms you only state the following:

An amount totalling 40-times the bonus value must be wagered on one or more games at betoto Casino before a payout of the bonus is allowed (excluding roulette). This point must be executed within 60 days after receiving the bonus, or the bonus will lose its validity. Before the bonus can be used, the entire amount exchanged into casino chips must be wagered.

now you tell me that I can not use the bonus for wagering i.e. that after losing my own money (50EUR) and going on
playing with the bonus (50EUR) the wagering does NOT count towards the required playthrough anymore?

That is simply ridiculous!

I´m awaiting your response on this.

regards

Lukas E. - ID

then their standart answer:

Dear Mr E.,

Thank you for your e-mail.

As written in the terms and conditions:

An amount totalling 40-times the bonus value must be wagered on one or more games at betoto Casino before a payout of the bonus is allowed.

The amount required was 2250.00, so far you have turned over 335.00 chips and still have 1915.00 chips to turn over with real money before an out paymet request is possible.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.

Best regards,

me again a little pissed now:

Okay now this is getting really chaotic:

First of all 40 times a 50 EUR bonus does not equal 2250 but 2000 EUR.
Secondly: Now you say that I´ve turned over 335 EUR in your last email
it was only 140 EUR - anyway: this does not really matter because the
REAL FIGURE is above the required 2000 EUR (and of course I played in "REAL" mode,
risking my own funds together with the bonus funds granted)

you claim that the BONUS AMOUNT (50 EUR) must be turned over
40 TIMES not playing roulette - I DID THAT! I´ve met your wagering requirements
and I am therefore ought to be paid my entire winnings in the amount of 315 EUR

I´m awaiting your response.

regards

Lukas E. - xxx

and - for now - their last HELPLESS response on this issue:

Dear Mr E.,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Our apologies, referring to tyhe last bonus offer you participated in, you received 50 bonus chips to be turned over 40 times amounting to 2000 chips, you have turned over 140.00 chips with real money and you still have 1860.00 to turn over before you will be able to cash out.Our wagering requirements for the offer has not been met as yet.

Best regards,

Honestly,I´m a little helpless right now. I don´t know why they didn´t count my wager after losing my deposited part of my balance after about 140 EUR of action.
I don´t understand why they don´t just LOOK INTO MY ACCOUNT HISTORY then they´d see that I´ve wagered far more than 140 EUR - BTW HOW COULD I TURN 100 EUR INTO 315 EUR WAGERING 140 EUR on BLACKJACK???

I looking forward to hearing your suggestions!

best regards and a happy 2nd christmas day!

Lukas

 

[Lukas85]

Dear Mr Esch,

Thank you for your e-mail.

As you are not playing with real money, the required turnovers for the bonus are not fulfilled and will not be unless you buy chips with real money.

As written in the terms and conditions:

"An amount totalling 40-times the bonus value must be wagered on one or more games at betoto Casino before a payout of the bonus is allowed (excluding roulette)."

You still have 1860.00 chips to turn over with real money before you will be able to cash out. You do not have any real money in your casino account, and you would need to buy more chips in order to turn the bonus over.

You deposited 50 Euros you were rewarded 50 Euros, 50x40 is 2000, and so far you have betted 140.00 and you still have 1860.00 chips to place

Do you guys understand what they mean? I definitely dont! This would be the first casino that does not allow me to use the bonus among my deposit to fulfill the wagering requirements. And its clearly not stated in their Terms and Conditons!

Should I pitch a bitch for that?

 

[Slotmachine]

This would be the first casino that does not allow me to use the bonus among my deposit to fulfill the wagering requirements. And its clearly not stated in their Terms and Conditons!

Should I pitch a bitch for that?

Absolutely incredible!

a) their support is amazingly incompetent
b) they are stalling
c) all of the above

Geeez. Talk about ad hoc terms&conditions.

Definitely PAB material.

Cheers,
SM

 

[SlickWilly]

Hi Lukas,

In looking at the betoto.com site I found the following link which lists the casino's rules of fair play.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Ironically, their motto is "Without fair rules, there can't be fair winning - this is our motto at betoto Casino."

You will notice on that page that they also claim to be a member of the International Gaming Council, which is now named the Interactive Gaming Council and can be found at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

A search of IGC's member list does now show betoto.com nor the BAW International Ltd. which is listed at the bottom of their fair play rules page.

It appears from the limited information before us that betoto.com is not handling your case in good faith nor are their rules clear.

I would PM their casino manager to inform him/her that you are posting here and ask them to respond.

I wish you all the best.

 

[chuchu59]

To me it seems that they are trying to get you to deposit more with this kind of BS. Definitely refrain from depositing a single cent to meet these outrageous WRs. One more thing,even if you do deposit and meet the playthrough using your real money,with what they are saying you will only be able to cash out $50 bonus and not the entire $315.

 

[SlickWilly]

In my previous post in this thread I made the following statement:

"A search of IGC's member list does now show betoto.com nor the BAW International Ltd. which is listed at the bottom of their fair play rules page."

It should read as follows:

"A search of IGC's member list does NOT show betoto.com nor BAW International Ltd., which is listed at the bottom of their fair play rules page."

Sorry for any confusion.

Regards.

 

[Lukas85]

thank you all for your replies so far!

The bonus system should work just like in any other chartwell casino - either you get the bonus right away with your deposit and the bonus is clasified as "playable bonus" becoming a "withdrawable bonus" after meeting the wagering requirements OR the bonus becomes a "pending bonus" right after the deposit, kicks in after meeting the WR and is then a "withdrawable bonus" right away.

Here the bonus is given right away but they basically claim that only deposited funds AND NOT THE bonus contribute towards fullfilling the wagering requirements- something Ive NEVER experienced ANYWERE

Ive sent the Betandwin Manager in this forum a PM with my USER ID at Betoto and the link to this thread. Lets see what hes got to say about this...

best regards

Lukas

 

[chemist]

Similar bad experience with betoto.com

I deposited funds about a year ago. I received no bonuses. I played a while then lost interest in this out. Last month did a cleanup of unused betting accounts and found I had about a 1,000 in this account. Then my troubles with Betoto began.

I originally deposited by Neteller, but when I went to the "Outpayment" page (Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) ) it said I had not registered a valid Neteller account. When I tried to enter the details of my Neteller account it rejected them. It says that the Neteller account number must be 12 digits, when in fact they are 14 digits.

I tried to withdraw by Moneybookers, but they refused saying had to make a deposit via moneybookers before I could withdraw. I deposited the minimum 10 and then tried to withdraw. This time they refused saying I needed to fax them a copy of my ID. I did this and (weeks have passed) they said my scan was illegible. I scanned it again and resent it. Then they refused to process my withdrawl because when I had deposited the 10 they had credited my account with a 10 bonus (not requested) and I had not completed the play through requirements!

If anyone could suggest how I should proceed now I would be grateful.

 

[jsp377]

My NT account is 12 digits. I have no idea why yours is 14. But they are acting very foolishly.

The first complaint, however makes sense (at least until they confuse the WR, which sounds like someone read the wrong screen/account). For Chartwell bonuses, bets made with the bonus chips don't count toward the requirement. In addition, chips won with only bonus money after you've lost your own money count as bonus chips. So, if after 140 of wagering you had a balance of 50 or less, then all your future wagering would not count toward the wagering requirement unless you redeposited and played with those chips.

 

[chuchu59]

Chemist,

Are you sure your neteller account has 14 digits. I am quite sure they should have 12 digits only.

 

[SlickWilly]

My NETeller account number only has 12 digits. Seems like there is some miscommunication somewhere.

Maybe these casinos just need to say upfront and without later changes - that this account type, call it X, is required for you to cashout in a manner that verifies your identity.

Enough of the boogaloooo casinos!

Also, perhaps a list should be compiled of all the suspect excuses and the casino's that use them. The casino's that use such excuses at any point in time should lose TRUST points here at Casinomeister. Perhaps the beginning of a gauge system for trust.

Broooohooohoooohaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa! My evil genius mind at work! :icon_twis

 

[vinylweatherman]

Confusing? Very!

The terms quoted by the CS rep do NOT state anywhere that the wagering must be done with real money. If it is NOT in the T & C how the hell is a player supposed to know this rather obscure Chartwell rule. The two Chartwell sites I play at simply award the bonus as PENDING, and it is not possible to wager it till the WR is cleared, so the rule is self enforcing, and obvious. I also play at Sporting Odds, where all money won with bonus chips remains as bonus chips, BUT WR can still be met by playing these bonus chips. Cryptologic have a similar system where bonus money and ANY winnings are held back, but here play is first from the bonus chips and then the deposit.
The bonus rules differ considerably from one casino to another, it is inexcusable not to present the new player with a CLEAR explanation of how the casino bonus system works at the point at which they sign up and read said terms and conditions as they should.

 

[chemist]

Chemist,

Are you sure your neteller account has 14 digits. I am quite sure they should have 12 digits only.

Yes, I was wrong. Too late at night. I counted it twice too.

 

[chemist]

In reply to my question why they hadn't processed my withdrawl for more than twelve hours they said:

"Dear Sir,Thank you for your e-mail.We would like to confirm that we have received your payout request and your outpayment is currently being checked by our Finance Department, who will process the transaction within the next few days.Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.Best regards,Your support team at Betoto.com"

*Days* checking? WTF?!

chemist