betfred does not pay me for no reason!!

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Big_panaso

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2006
Location
amsterdam
HI.

I opened an acocunt with betfred about 2 months ago, deposited 250GBP and played with the sign up bonus, finishing with 2,400GBP.
not a big amount for a sportbook like betferd, right?
They asked me for documentation, I sent them passport and utility bill but they refuses to pay!!

here is thier responce:

There were discrepancies in the documentation you provided and as such you have failed our security investigation.

I asked the manager to explain me in plain English, what do they mean by that. I mean, I sent the very same documents to several casinos and all casinos (in some I won bigger amounts) accepted them without any problem only this casino would not.

they refused to answer me and all I got was my deposit back.

now, I really dont know what to do with these guys.

I filed a complain with playtech but according to what I read here they are not suposed to be very helpful.

any ideas?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Fraud

Plain English?

They have accused you of being dishonest with them, plain and simple.

This could be anything from multiple account fraud to pretending to be someone you are not and using fake documents to support the deception.
To convict without trial is poor, and not something that encourages the belief that the online casino business is honest itself.
In a fair society, anyone accused of something should have the right to mount a defence to clear their name. In any case, it is quite possible that the casino/sportsbook have made an error, but are answerable to no-one.
The only resolution would be to sue Betfred for damages (defamation of character), including the disputed winnings in court (the winnings alone may not constitute a claim if gambling debt is not enforcable in law). I believe they reside in a "proper" juristiction. Look for a term stating which country's law decides the outcome of any legal dispute, and hope it is in the EU rather than somewhere like Antigua.
While you may not win, BetFred will have to justify their actions in open court and convince a Judge that they acted responsibly in coming to their eventual decision, and made every effort to clarify any perceived discrepancy to rule out the possibility of simple error rather than attempted fraud.

Even an intent to take legal action will trigger them to look again at the case, they don't want to be embarrassed in court by being criticised by the judge.
There are many examples of big companies treating customers like this, and refusing to consider the possibility that their procedures are in error. This often results in extreme embarrassment in court.
British Gas have fallen for this many times, taking customers to court for unpaid bills only for the judge to find that they are not even supplied with Gas in the first place, and why did the company not work this out for themselves when the customer repeatedly statd they had no gas coming into the property.
Security checks often fail for similar reasons. The system is fine, but it has been fed garbage instead of valid data at some point in the past. Eventually, this causes problems down the line, often for the innocent party, not the party that might have triggered the inclusion of the duff data. The innocent party really has no clue as to what the hell is going on, and as far as they are concerned they are being shafted by some dodgy operator pulling a "reserve the right for no reason" on them.
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
Their manager is a member here (username Betfred Casino) and you should first start by contacting him/her.

If you click on 'Casino Contacts' towards the top centre of the forum you will be able to find them and send them a PM.

I must say I'd be very surprised to see the online arm of a highstreet UK Bookmaker doing this for no good reason.
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
Bet Fred are 100% reputable.

There's either a mix up that needs resolving, or something not quite right as they suspect. Either way, they'll sort it.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Dirk Diggler said:
Their manager is a member here (username Betfred Casino) and you should first start by contacting him/her...
Eh, he hasn't signed in for over a year, so I dropped him off of the list.

Looks like I'll have to pursue this the old fashioned way :D
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
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Location
Bierland
Have you PAB'd?? I have one that is almost identical to your situation. If you haven't yet, please do.
 

GOCC

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Location
UK
Slotster! said:
Bet Fred are 100% reputable.

There's either a mix up that needs resolving, or something not quite right as they suspect. Either way, they'll sort it.


I use to be a distict manager for them

Let me tell you, they are not above all suspicion on anyhting
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
Watch out Betfred Casino!
Eh, he hasn't signed in for over a year, so I dropped him off of the list.

Looks like I'll have to pursue this the old fashioned way
The meister is on it!:lolup: Go gettum chief!
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
vinylweatherman said:
I believe they reside in a "proper" juristiction. Look for a term stating which country's law decides the outcome of any legal dispute, and hope it is in the EU rather than somewhere like Antigua.
Betfred is registered in England and Fred Done lives is Salford. England is a good place for defamation lawsuit (for the plaintiff). If personal data is processed in the UK, then there is also an obligation under the Data Protection Act to ensure that it is correct.
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
GOCC said:
I use to be a distict manager for them

Let me tell you, they are not above all suspicion on anyhting

Hey - they're a bookmakers, I'd always be suspicious about them!

What I meant really is, they're a well funded properly set up B&M place, not someone you should be worried about purposely ripping you off (more than usual :D)
 

picassotime

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Southwest USA
You're not the only one.

Hi,

I am having the exact same problem with Bet Fred! I made a cash in and Bet Fred asked me to provide a copy of my ID and a recent utility bill. I e-mailed them a scanned copy of both...they would not accept them. Said they had to be faxed. I did not have a fax machine so I went and bought one and faxed them what they wanted. Here is the response from Bet Fred:

Dear Stephen,

Thank you for contacting Betfred Casino.

We have received your documents and after being checked you have failed the security check.

We will not be approving your cashout request and have returned your original deposit back to your Neteller account.

Betfred does not wish to offer you an account in the future so it will remain closed. We now consider the matter closed.

Regards

Casino Manager
Betfred Casino and Poker
www.betfred.com

I aksed them how I failed their security check and they did not answer. They still haven't answered.

Bet Fred does not like to pay their winners. I am really hoping someone can help.

-Stephen
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
picassotime said:
I am having the exact same problem with Bet Fred!

Could it be because you are from a particular state well known for its nightlife and natural scenery? Not to mention casinos and sportsbooks?
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
picassotime said:
I am having the exact same problem with Bet Fred! I made a cash in and Bet Fred asked me to provide a copy of my ID and a recent utility bill. I e-mailed them a scanned copy of both...they would not accept them. Said they had to be faxed. I did not have a fax machine so I went and bought one and faxed them what they wanted.
I know it is too late for you, but you can use your computer to send faxes if you have a modem, and most computers these days come with one built in.
 

lottethedog

Dormant Account
Joined
May 24, 2006
Location
Europe
I've played and been paid at Betfred. Never had an issue with them.

Seriously did you actually buy a fax machine? If so why?!?
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
spearmaster said:
The last time I looked, Amsterdam was not in Colombia.
I should have checked that earlier.

Big_panaso - could you mind telling me what your citizenship is and where is your place of residency? Where are you? Thanks!

And please send me the documents you sent to Befred as well.
 

Big_panaso

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2006
Location
amsterdam
spearmaster has crossed the line and the bet fraud casino still does not pay

hi,

first, I would like to say it was quite rude of spearmaster to expose infomration he got, probably from my IP.
What if I told my wife I am going to a business meeting in Paris while instead I went with my mistress to Colombia?

second, yes, I was in Colombia, I did not read anything in the terms of the casinomeister web site saying that I have to log in to the forum only from my place of residency.
by the way, I will save your time, I am in the UK right now, any problem with that?

and third, I really do not get bet fraud casino. I opened the account, played and cashed out from holland, so what reason do they have to withhold my payment? I sent the casinomeister all the documents as well a week ago but so far, nothing.
 

WAYLANDER

Webmeister
webmeister
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
uk
Im a newbie so take as much notice of this as you want.
I did the $250 poker (slightly diff i know ) bonus and found their customer support to be the friendliest and most helpfull i have come accross.. infact when i completed the bonus something along the lines of congrats, way to go , was said to me!
Also they advertise quite alot in the uk sponsoring some pretty big sports.
Not the act of a dodgy opperation in my book.
But hey....what do i know:D
WAYLANDER
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
UK

Big_panaso said:
hi,

first, I would like to say it was quite rude of spearmaster to expose infomration he got, probably from my IP.
What if I told my wife I am going to a business meeting in Paris while instead I went with my mistress to Colombia?

second, yes, I was in Colombia, I did not read anything in the terms of the casinomeister web site saying that I have to log in to the forum only from my place of residency.
by the way, I will save your time, I am in the UK right now, any problem with that?

and third, I really do not get bet fraud casino. I opened the account, played and cashed out from holland, so what reason do they have to withhold my payment? I sent the casinomeister all the documents as well a week ago but so far, nothing.

Being in the UK should provide an opportunity to go and discuss this in person if the amount is significant enough. It seems the problem lies with the documents, which at first they did not accept. If you registered from Holland, and the documents support residency there I wonder what the problem is.
Casinos WILL log the IP address, and if you had transacted from Colombia this might have got you flagged as "dodgy". They would normally expect several different pieces of information to tie in. If anything is wrong, then you "fail the security check". This check also looks for players with multiple accounts, and this is another reason they may have failed the check - and this can happen even if the documents all tie in.
You might even want to put the case in front of a lawyer here, again providing the amount is worth the trouble.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
One of the current problems is that Holland does prohibit online gambling, and marketing to their citizens. This is why I check location. Not saying one shouldn't be allowed to travel, but you also have to admit that saying you are from one place and posting from another does raise red flags. This is one of the indicators we use to try and determine the legitimacy of first-time posters in situations where they raise complaints in their first post.

And in this case, it might also help to determine what BetFred is using as justification for its actions.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Big_panaso said:
hi,

first, I would like to say it was quite rude of spearmaster to expose infomration he got, probably from my IP.
What if I told my wife I am going to a business meeting in Paris while instead I went with my mistress to Colombia?

second, yes, I was in Colombia, I did not read anything in the terms of the casinomeister web site saying that I have to log in to the forum only from my place of residency.
by the way, I will save your time, I am in the UK right now, any problem with that?

and third, I really do not get bet fraud casino. I opened the account, played and cashed out from holland, so what reason do they have to withhold my payment? I sent the casinomeister all the documents as well a week ago but so far, nothing.
Spearmaster was acting in the role of a moderator. Player fraud is truly a big problem, and one indicator is for players to sign up from one country and claim they are from another. He was only being vigilant in protecting the veracity of the board.

I have received your documents and forwarded them to the casino.
 

Big_panaso

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2006
Location
amsterdam
making a point

hi,

first, I would like to point out that I respect this site right to check players IP. that can be very helpful in preventing frauds. what made me upsate was that instead of sending me an email asking me for an explanation they choose to publish the data on the thread. not only mine but also Picassotime.

now, I want to make this issue clear. I opened my account in Betfred from Holland, played and cashout from Holland and as far as I remember I have never logged in to my account from a different country. 100% I did not log in from Colombia.
However, if that is the probelm of the casino, what does it have to do with my documents?

So, what makes me crazy now is that betfred is not paying for a long time, they did not provide any reason, not for me and I think not for the casinomeister.

finally, I am not a law expert but I think that even if gambling is illegal in Holland the casino should either not accept players from holland or accept them and pay. I think any other way would be unfair.

thanks.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
Big_panaso said:
first, I would like to point out that I respect this site right to check players IP. that can be very helpful in preventing frauds. what made me upsate was that instead of sending me an email asking me for an explanation they choose to publish the data on the thread. not only mine but also Picassotime.
Not like we actually published any data or IPs. It's also not normal practice for us to send emails to members, except newsletters which you must sign up separately for anyhow.

finally, I am not a law expert but I think that even if gambling is illegal in Holland the casino should either not accept players from holland or accept them and pay. I think any other way would be unfair.

Well, if you have been paid in the past by BetFred, and of course they knew you were in Holland, then they should continue to pay you. If, on the other hand, you played but have not cashed out before, it's a bit less clear. I think that they should automatically have stopped you right from the start. So now we just have to find out what happened - if you've sent the documents to CM then he can have the casino look at them. So, to make it short, I agree with you.
 

picassotime

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Southwest USA
I have been away for awhile...

Anyway I didn't understand what spearmaster meant with his cryptic replies. Thanks for explaining Big_panaso. But I still don't understand because I am from Arizona.

Anyway the reality is that Bet 'Fraud' (not Fred LOL) still hasn't paid me in over 4 months. I pitched a bitch with the casinomeister a while ago. I know he is busy. But is there any progress with this situation?
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
picassotime said:
I have been away for awhile...

Anyway I didn't understand what spearmaster meant with his cryptic replies. Thanks for explaining Big_panaso. But I still don't understand because I am from Arizona.

Anyway the reality is that Bet 'Fraud' (not Fred LOL) still hasn't paid me in over 4 months. I pitched a bitch with the casinomeister a while ago. I know he is busy. But is there any progress with this situation?

You wouldn't happen to be in Vegas at the moment, would you?
 
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