Betfair issues (was On Probation)

[The Dude]

I didn´t even know about that website. I don´t know what´s your objective with that posts. Anyway I´m out of here, I won´t get my money and this converstation leads to nothing. That´s why companies feel safe to do wathver they want, there is always someone who defends them...

Seems that a little forum squabbling leads you to toss 32K? I'm not convinced. If you are exploiting this forum for any fraudulent means, you're history.

So I take it you've contacted IBAS as well as the LGA. Please feel free to PM me any pertinent details about this.

 

[GrandMaster]

Funny thing that you and that "other" guy notty83 type the same way too.

Notice the spacing in the letters of the that's (that 's). They can be found in your posts as Jao and as Notty83.

There are other curious similarities:

I withdrawn 32000€ saturday night after the promo. I received them on Tuesday in my bank account, no e-wallet, no paypal stuff,

Compare this to notty83 in

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:
"Betfair paid me 32k yesterday to my bank account. I mean I withdrawn using credit card, no moneybookers, no neteller, no pay pal stuff, directly to my bank."

It would be really good if CM and aka23 could check if the e-mail addresses or IP addresses match.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Or you missed the blatantly obvious..... They are the same person. (You have erred to this )

Betfair didnt have this information as it was sent to me in PM form on another Forum.

I think you misunderstood the sarcasm undertone. It is highly unlikely that two different people have suffered such a similar (by which I mean the same) experience of turning €300 into 32K, and then having it confiscated from their bank account.

Betfair were probably right about the 32K being the proceeds of fraud, but they didn't confiscate it on that basis, but rather the "spirit of the bonus" argument they were using to claw back all the winnings from this promo they could get their hands on.

Surely if they had evidence of fraud over this 32K, they would have said "bring it on", rather than refusing to engage with the PAB process. Maybe there was significant multiaccounting on the back of posts in this private forum.

It has taken 2 years for this to come to light, so a pretty well kept secret until someone pissed off someone else in the AP and fraud community sufficiently for the unwritten code to be broken and the multiaccounter grassed up in public for their 32K scam attempt.

If this was a scam, Betfair would not be sued in court as the truth may come out, any legal action would have to be aimed at the bank who would not know how the 32K came about, just that it was won and paid out, then yanked back 2 days later - potentially breaching banking regulations.

 

[daywalker]

I think you misunderstood the sarcasm undertone. It is highly unlikely that two different people have suffered such a similar (by which I mean the same) experience of turning €300 into 32K, and then having it confiscated from their bank account.

Betfair were probably right about the 32K being the proceeds of fraud, but they didn't confiscate it on that basis, but rather the "spirit of the bonus" argument they were using to claw back all the winnings from this promo they could get their hands on.

Surely if they had evidence of fraud over this 32K, they would have said "bring it on", rather than refusing to engage with the PAB process. Maybe there was significant multiaccounting on the back of posts in this private forum.

It has taken 2 years for this to come to light, so a pretty well kept secret until someone pissed off someone else in the AP and fraud community sufficiently for the unwritten code to be broken and the multiaccounter grassed up in public for their 32K scam attempt.

If this was a scam, Betfair would not be sued in court as the truth may come out, any legal action would have to be aimed at the bank who would not know how the 32K came about, just that it was won and paid out, then yanked back 2 days later - potentially breaching banking regulations.

Grassed up? How? It's all in public on the BB forum, you can find it yourself, all the quotes I have quoted are from the public forum. And to be perfectly honest I thought everyone knew they were the same poster so I was surprised when he started denying it.

'Secret code'? That's a new one on me. If you take the p*ss or knowingly flout t&c's you really can't bleat about being caught as mr 32k is doing.

2 years to come to light? It came to light at the time on here (see the users post history) and over on the BB forum.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Grassed up? How? It's all in public on the BB forum, you can find it yourself, all the quotes I have quoted are from the public forum. And to be perfectly honest I thought everyone knew they were the same poster so I was surprised when he started denying it.

'Secret code'? That's a new one on me. If you take the p*ss or knowingly flout t&c's you really can't bleat about being caught as mr 32k is doing.

2 years to come to light? It came to light at the time on here (see the users post history) and over on the BB forum.

I don't recall multi accounting and insider secrets coming to light. The only admission was that the 32K was the result of some pretty aggressive advantage play, but all within the terms of this promotion, which did specify that the bonus could be claimed an "unlimited number of times" during the promotional window. It was the ability to claim unlimited times that was Betfair's undoing, and it didn't need any multiaccounting to claim the bonus several times, just fast and dedicated play in order to complete the WR as fast as possible so that another bonus could be claimed and played. The 10x WR ensured that it was +EV, so the faster one played, the more money one made that night.

 

[daywalker]

I don't recall multi accounting and insider secrets coming to light. The only admission was that the 32K was the result of some pretty aggressive advantage play, but all within the terms of this promotion, which did specify that the bonus could be claimed an "unlimited number of times" during the promotional window. It was the ability to claim unlimited times that was Betfair's undoing, and it didn't need any multiaccounting to claim the bonus several times, just fast and dedicated play in order to complete the WR as fast as possible so that another bonus could be claimed and played. The 10x WR ensured that it was +EV, so the faster one played, the more money one made that night.

I didn't mention multi-accounting and there's no insider secrets that have been revealed in this discussion that weren't discussed two years ago. You obviously didn't read Nottys admission on BB two years ago but I have reproduced that on this thread. It is two years old. There's nothing new that has been revealed, you were just not aware it had already been discussed that's all.
All I am talking about here is one guy from Portugal who put 300 in took 32k out but is pretending to be two different people across two forums because on one forum he admitted he was a little naughty.

Now if someone else is talking about multi-accounting this offer I don't know anything about it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I didn't mention multi-accounting and there's no insider secrets that have been revealed in this discussion that weren't discussed two years ago. You obviously didn't read Nottys admission on BB two years ago but I have reproduced that on this thread. It is two years old. There's nothing new that has been revealed, you were just not aware it had already been discussed that's all.
All I am talking about here is one guy from Portugal who put 300 in took 32k out but is pretending to be two different people across two forums because on one forum he admitted he was a little naughty.

Now if someone else is talking about multi-accounting this offer I don't know anything about it.

So were many players, but was this "little bit naughty" still within the terms of the promo?

If there is nothing to hide, why pretend to be different people on different forums?

The promo was badly designed, and easy to beat. Betfair retrospectively voided winnings, raided ewallets and bank accounts, and even demanded more money from some after their balances were confiscated. This got them into the pit because the players had done nothing wrong in spotting a massively +EV promo and staying up all night to make the most of it.

The story here was that €300 was deposited, and after an all night session of claiming unlimited reloads of the bonus (as allowed in the terms), the result was €32,000 which was withdrawn. It was paid into the bank account, and then snatched back 2 days later. Betfair offered no evidence that any terms had been broken, but confiscated winnings from players who had taken "too many unlimited reloads", as it was not in the spirit of the promotion to actually CLAIM as many reloads as you could manage whilst staying up all night.

Had there been any breaches of the terms, or multiaccounting, or even misuse of "inside knowledge", the player would probably have lost the PAB had it gone ahead.

 

[daywalker]

I give up. Go and have a read over at BB, I'm not repeating it all again.

 

[questa]

They are at it again!

Yesterday Betfair launched a promotion where you bet £250 a day on slots, for 7 consecutive days, and earn a £400 bonus.

I decided to have a go, and bet the £250, lost most spins and most of my deposit! Then, just before midnight, they changed the terms so you can only earn a £100 bonus!

So of course, anyone who had a go thinking they would get £400 at the end, will now only get £100, and in my case I lost my money for nothing.

I'm not complaining - I knew they were rogue so I only have myself to blame, but I thought it was an ingteresting example of how they still treat players - changing it a few moments before midnight stinks of a deliberate bait and switch to me.

At least I noticed the change, I feel sorry for the players who will continue all week only to be robbed of £300 at the end

 

[questa]

proof

 

[vinylweatherman]

Clearly they intended to carry on as before. The attempt to get out of the pit was purely a ruse to trick Bryan and the rest of us.

You should make a complaint to the ASA about this bait and switch as you have the evidence. Betfair may have violated the "don't do it again" reprimand they got over the Happy Hour fiasco.

Despite new maganement, the initial £400 offer STILL made it through having been signed off by numerous members of managerial staff, who then had to pull a bait & switch because yet again they screwed up by making a highly +EV offer. Unlike happy hour, this could only be done once per player, but I bet they did the sums AFTER it went live (sums they should have done earlier), and realised that on average, they were going to lose out.

They also sneaked the change in so that players would still think they were playing for the £400, whereas they would stop playing if they realised it was only £100.


I bet they will claim that it was always £100, and that anyone claiming otherwise is lying, and has faked any evidence they have of it being £400.

 

[GOCC]

So has anyone actually emailed and asked whats happening or are the Kangaroos bouncing round like zebedee.

 

[Nate]

They are at it again!

Yesterday Betfair launched a promotion where you bet £250 a day on slots, for 7 consecutive days, and earn a £400 bonus.

I decided to have a go, and bet the £250, lost most spins and most of my deposit! Then, just before midnight, they changed the terms so you can only earn a £100 bonus!

So of course, anyone who had a go thinking they would get £400 at the end, will now only get £100, and in my case I lost my money for nothing.

I'm not complaining - I knew they were rogue so I only have myself to blame, but I thought it was an ingteresting example of how they still treat players - changing it a few moments before midnight stinks of a deliberate bait and switch to me.

At least I noticed the change, I feel sorry for the players who will continue all week only to be robbed of £300 at the end

Very interesting. did you contact the rep - I see she has logged in and reads this thread often... any excuses sent your way?

Nate

 

[questa]

Very interesting. did you contact the rep - I see she has logged in and reads this thread often... any excuses sent your way?

Nate

I've sent an email which has not been replied to, will give them a call later if I have time and let you know what they say.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Somebodies making a last ditch attempt for the worst casino of the year award

Got an image of their promotions manager saying "its cool-I got this!".

 

[GOCC]

So any news?

What will people say if they do honour the original promo? If they dont, they deserve chastisement but if they do, a small piece of credit

 

[Laura-Betfair]

Response regarding Lucky Elf Promotion

Betfair Casino launched the Lucky Little Elf promotion on 5.12.2012. Shortly after the promotion went live, our promotions team identified that the amounts displayed for the bonus prizes in the terms and conditions were incorrect and inconsistent with the main copy. This error was unfortunately due to an internal miscommunication.

We appreciate that some customers opted into the promotion whilst the incorrect Ts & Cs were live. Therefore, we will honour the bonus amounts shown in the incorrect Ts & Cs for any customer who opted into the promotion before midnight on 5.12.2012 providing that all of the original terms were adhered to including the one account per customer term.

For any customers who would like to verify which Ts & Cs apply to them, please contact our Old / Expired Link who will be able to confirm.

 

[questa]

Betfair Casino launched the Lucky Little Elf promotion on 5.12.2012. Shortly after the promotion went live, our promotions team identified that the amounts displayed for the bonus prizes in the terms and conditions were incorrect and inconsistent with the main copy. This error was unfortunately due to an internal miscommunication.

We appreciate that some customers opted into the promotion whilst the incorrect Ts & Cs were live. Therefore, we will honour the bonus amounts shown in the incorrect Ts & Cs for any customer who opted into the promotion before midnight on 5.12.2012 providing that all of the original terms were adhered to including the one account per customer term.

For any customers who would like to verify which Ts & Cs apply to them, please contact our Old / Expired Link who will be able to confirm.

Well that's good I suppose, that - on this occasion - you are doing the correct thing. If only this could extend to returning the stolen funds you still hang on to from your Happy Hour disaster.

On a childish note, I couldn't help snigger that the Betfair rep is, quite literally, Bent. Oh the irony

 

[Pulver]

Betfair Casino launched the Lucky Little Elf promotion on 5.12.2012. Shortly after the promotion went live, our promotions team identified that the amounts displayed for the bonus prizes in the terms and conditions were incorrect and inconsistent with the main copy. This error was unfortunately due to an internal miscommunication.

We appreciate that some customers opted into the promotion whilst the incorrect Ts & Cs were live. Therefore, we will honour the bonus amounts shown in the incorrect Ts & Cs for any customer who opted into the promotion before midnight on 5.12.2012 providing that all of the original terms were adhered to including the one account per customer term.

For any customers who would like to verify which Ts & Cs apply to them, please contact our Old / Expired Link who will be able to confirm.

When are you going to pay the people you owe from the Happy Hour promotion?

 

[daywalker]

When are you going to pay the people you owe from the Happy Hour promotion?

It's already been answered by CM.

There was a statement. They asked me to review it, I did, and I told them that it would do more harm than good since the Happy Hour aggrieved players were not a consideration.

I can't believe they screwed up another promo though. I'd love to know what their recruitment process is as they have some clueless employees on their books

 

[vinylweatherman]

Betfair Casino launched the Lucky Little Elf promotion on 5.12.2012. Shortly after the promotion went live, our promotions team identified that the amounts displayed for the bonus prizes in the terms and conditions were incorrect and inconsistent with the main copy. This error was unfortunately due to an internal miscommunication.

We appreciate that some customers opted into the promotion whilst the incorrect Ts & Cs were live. Therefore, we will honour the bonus amounts shown in the incorrect Ts & Cs for any customer who opted into the promotion before midnight on 5.12.2012 providing that all of the original terms were adhered to including the one account per customer term.

For any customers who would like to verify which Ts & Cs apply to them, please contact our Old / Expired Link who will be able to confirm.

This is the SAME excuse we got 2 years ago. It needed a committee of 5 to "sign off" a promotion before it went live, yet all 5 screwed up in spectacular fashion. Now it has happened AGAIN. It went live, and only THEN did someone think to proof read the copy to discover this "miscommunication".

Unfortunately, I don't buy this story. The original incorrect figures came from somewhere, someone took the trouble to design this promotion, construct the pages, and place it on the website. It still looks like the same problem as before, the promo being designed by persons lacking an appropriate level of knowledge of casino mathematics, it going live, and a day later someone WITH an adequate level of knowledge spotting it and thinking "WTF were they smokin, yank this ASAP and reconfigure".

It was also done on the quiet, perhaps hoping no-one would notice, and those that did maybe thinking they misread the original making them believe they were going for £400.

This thread seems to have prompted management to fess up to the cock-up, and promise that those who registered at the start will still get the £400. In effect, this means pretty much EVERYONE who registered with the intent to go for the max will get it, as they would have to have registered right at the start in order to complete the full 7 day challenge. Given this, why not just let the miscommunication stand and avoid the potential for yet another bout of bad PR.

 

[The Dude]

...
On a childish note, I couldn't help snigger that the Betfair rep is, quite literally, Bent. Oh the irony

Way out of line here. I feel you owe Laura a public apology.

 

[questa]

Fair enough, I apologise for my childish comment.

Now, will Laura apologise for the much more serious massive theft of player funds...?

 

[chuchu59]

Fair enough, I apologise for my childish comment.

Now, will Laura apologise for the much more serious massive theft of player funds...?

Different things altogether. Yours was a personal attack. Laura cannot apologise without the consent of the casino management and you should know this wont happen.

 

[topoor]

To be fair it was obviously a joke and not an attack . I'm from the UK as it looks like the poster is, we have a sense of humour here. It is very ironic, and frankly amusing, that a rogue casino has someone representing them with a surname that in slang terms can mean rogue. Much ado about nothing.

 

[steffigraff77]

It is kinda funny and he has actually apologised!

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

To be fair it was obviously a joke and not an attack . I'm from the UK as it looks like the poster is, we have a sense of humour here. It is very ironic, and frankly amusing, that a rogue casino has someone representing them with a surname that in slang terms can mean rogue. Much ado about nothing.

I'm from the UK and have a sense of humour,but I found it somewhat unnecessary.

Whether we agree with what Betfair have done or not,their rep is still entitled to the same respect anybody else is here.

 

[Nifty29]

To be fair it was obviously a joke and not an attack . I'm from the UK as it looks like the poster is, we have a sense of humour here. It is very ironic, and frankly amusing, that a rogue casino has someone representing them with a surname that in slang terms can mean rogue. Much ado about nothing.

So making fun of someone's surname in the forum is OK?

What if her surname was "Dick"? Would it be OK to say "she is, quite literally, a Dick"?

You have a very skewed idea of where the boundary between humour and insult lies.

Casino reps are here as a service to members. Insulting and/or making personal wise cracks drives them away, which means that the membership as a whole may lose that service. So, it is also incredibly selfish.

 

[topoor]

Her surname isn't dick and he didn't call her a dick. Stop creating problems where there aren't any with ifs, buts and maybes.. If he had called her a dick it would be a completely different matter.

And he didn't actually make fun of her surname he said it was an irony , which it is.

 

[topoor]

Removed to preserve the peace.

 

[chuchu59]

Her surname isn't dick and he didn't call her a dick. Stop creating problems where there aren't any with ifs, buts and maybes.. If he had called her a dick it would be a completely different matter.

And he didn't actually make fun of her surname he said it was an irony , which it is.

The bottom line is not to get too personal. This is a public forum and while humour is welcome it would not be right to make fun of people's names, sex, ethnic origin etc.Ajoke may have been made in good faith but you never know how the subject feels about it.

 

[The Dude]

Seems to me that this thread has run its course. I wouldn't anticipate Laura responding to any further posts here.

To be fair it was obviously a joke and not an attack . I'm from the UK as it looks like the poster is, we have a sense of humour here. It is very ironic, and frankly amusing, that a rogue casino has someone representing them with a surname that in slang terms can mean rogue. Much ado about nothing.

Being from the UK doesn't give anyone the privilege of humor. I'm from the US and we've churned out our share of comedians as well. It may be much ado about nothing to you, but you don't know Laura. You haven't a clue whether she's OK with having jibes made about her name or not.

Thread upgraded to closed.