Betat/Slotty Vegas ownership questions

[CM_BETAT]

Hi colin,

Max entertainment is a full rebrand of NRR. There will still be references to NRR Ent. where the process to change the name takes time. For example changes to UKGC & MGA licenses have been submitted, but the process for the changes to take effect then takes a number of months, even if license numbers dont change.

MFSA similarly... company number wont change, only the name of the company. References to NRR Ent will be fully replaced with MaxEnt in time, but only by name. Staff, offices, company numbers, license numbers and so on are the same..

 

[homerbert]

I agree. I think the reps should stop suggesting they could sue people for defamation and referring to peoples concerns as a mexican soap opera

Yep, that was not the best statement, I agree

Just saying to be polite from both sides, because there is enough disrespect and violence in the world.

Somehow I'm way to kind and patient today

br,

 

[MaltesePlayer]

Guys! They're legit. Look they have a facebook friend profile for you to add!



Jokes aside, I used to work for most of the people still at the company. Although I had disagreements and I'm sure Jorge and Karl can attest to that big time, most of the people that are on the Who's Who list are valid peeps with families and do their best to provide a good service.

 

[smart_croatia]

well for me personally nothing changed, when i get 100% bonus offer i go and make deposit , its all the same, same non sticky bonus same rules, if i have made some winnings i made widrawal and money is there like before

 

[Casinomeister]

Geeze - you guys are like pit bulls - just can't let some things go.

Yes, it is true that they have invited me down to Malta - but there is no way for me to go down there until at least in November. I have two trips planned for the UK in Sept, and will be in the States most of Oct. I am guessing Duncan from thepogg is heading their way - I am not 100% certain since we haven't been in contact the past couple of weeks.

Old / Expired Link is a really good start - that's a lot more transparency than most companies are willing to give. Why? Even the most upstanding casinos are protective of the identity of their employees - and of course top admins and ownership. They are not selling shoes - and disgruntled gamblers can not only a nuisance, but dangerous. Would you want some guy who thinks he's owed $500,000 know where you live? Or where your kids go to school? Some of you need a reality check to understand why companies are protective about this sort of thing. Those who are insisting to know about the ownership of these casinos are missing this point.

As I stated earlier, I was not comfortable on how the whole sale went down, and I felt that with the amount of time and effort I spent helping these guys get the exposure and viral traffic from Casinomeister, that I should have at least been given a heads up. But I wasn't - but in all actuality it's none of my business. I'm not an employee or shareholder so what the hell? It was just a miscalculation on their part.

That said, I think some of you need to bring this down a few notches. Especially with the mafia connections etc. If you truly believe that those reports are 100% legit and accurate, by all means start an investigation on your own website. Word Press is not hard to learn, and there are loads of domains still available for dirt cheap. Just don't so it here.

As time goes by, and if I have any pertinent information to give - I'll give it. In the meantime, please don't turn this thread into a rumor mongering rampage - thanks!

 

[ThePOGG]

Duncan accepted around one month ago and we will have the pleasure to have him here with us in the end of this month. Brian unfortunately is not available at the moment but we hope to see him around also soon.

Hi Jorge,

I'm sorry to disappoint on this one but my last message to you was a request for what days suited your team. I never got anything back so no travel has been arranged. Specifically no confidentiality agreements were forwarded for review! We have a meeting with another body in Malta I was looking to coordinate with, but they felt it would be preferable to do that in a few months time when some other policies had had a little time to develop. When I didn't hear from you I catered to the other body and assumed this had become lower priority for you. I don't currently have any firm dates booked to be in Malta.

Best regards? If that were true, you would answer the question and fess up to who the owner is. Defamation? A judge would laugh you out of court and make you pay courts costs. And if anything, question why you are hiding the identity of the owners, he may even demand to know.

Duncan can go wherever he wants. I can say Im very concerned to see ThePogg giving them a 9/10 rating and recommending them still. Hiding this to such lengths is anything but honest, confident or transparent. Its nothing but red flags and the very opposite of trust.

lil - in the other thread you said I was being aggressive? I came over here at your direction, having not seen this post, and you still want to hold to that? With absolute honestly, your concerns are no concerns to us. We don't owe you anything. Had you (again) chosen to PM me or email us to raise your concerns I would have been happy to chat to you about this, as I have several other members here who have done just that. You want answers, ask. You want drama, batter in but my willingness to engage with this sort of interaction is always going to be stunted.

For those interested parties I will give what information I can.

The BringIt group lost their sealed status with us over this issue. There are things I can say and things I can't as I've been on the inside of a lot of conversation both with BringIt and other parties with regard to what's gone on and have access to several pieces of information that were shared in confidence. Do I believe that they are owned even partly by the Vulkan/MaxBet/non-genuine games group? No. There were several factors that indicated that this may have been the case - some public, some not so. But these were address in a fairly thorough manner during private conversations and after significant investigation logical reasons were given for the connections that had been drawn that did not involve sale to a group involved in the distribution of fake games.

So why hasn't their seal been reinstated? There are several reason for this:

i) While I was presented with enough that I don't believe that they are owned by anyone related to any questionable group that has been suggested, I haven't seen who does actually own them Given everything that's happened due diligence would stipulate that has to happen. That was the intention of the trip to Malta. Does it worry me that I don't know the owners? Not really. This is a false standard to hold. There are few groups that I can be absolutely sure of the owners. One of my personal favourite groups - Trada - hold that status specifically because I do know the owners behind the organisation. They're the exception though. Money men don't tend to like to have their names out in public and in the gambling industry this goes double as some players can be erratic. I go to lengths to ensure that my personal address is not in the public domain as I don't need the hassle of having a disgruntled player turning up at my door. I do the same with my image - Bryan can attest to the fact that I've asked him to crop me out of photos from the Meister Meeting for exactly this reason. The lack of willingness to put this information out in public isn't a crime, in fact it's absolutely typical in this industry and in many cases wise. All of that said and as stated previously given everything that's come up I wanted to know who the owners were so I could be assured that this issue was put to bed in my head. That hasn't happened yet. That will require confidentiality agreements. I won't be posting that information. If what I eventually see confirms everything else as I expect it will we'd consider their seal status. But for the time being everything else I've seen is enough that I'm not damning them for operating the same way as just about everyone else. So no seal, but no negative status.

ii) I wasn't massively happy with the manner in which this was all handled. Tempers were lost which is never great. And people who had legitimate reason for being angry were met with hostility when they didn't cool down for 'we're looking into it'. Money was owed, it was delayed and the groups who were owed had every right to be upset. In the situation, whether the BringIt team felt that these issues were warranted or not or whether the criticism was a fair representation of their business, the correct (to my mind) response should have been to say 'we understand your comments and concerns, we're doing everything we can to rectify the situation and we're really, really sorry this has happened. Please bear with us and give us just a few weeks to sort all this out'. With relation to the affiliate payments - communication in advance of the problems would have prevented much of the furore. Meeting any of the comments, whether from players or affiliates, with anything approaching anger was just adding petrol to the fire.

If I'm honest, I actually think that it's rather likely that most of the sale stuff has largely been non-sense that could have been cleared-up very easily before all this came to a head. I understand why it wasn't, but as these things have a habit of doing when left to themselves it's grown arms and legs and taken on a life of its own. The brand has done significant damage to itself over something that to my mind was most likely nothing even approaching noteworthy.

iii) Straight honesty - I'm not currently convinced that we'd want to offer the BringIt properties our seal again. We have data over a significant number of players that shows that the BringIt properties weren't delivering value for us. We've NEVER made placement decisions based on how much a program was paying us. I invite any operator here to step forward and say that they had to agree to pay us above their standard rates to get the placement they hold. I publicly release any operator that wants to speak from any confidentiality arrangements. But when our 2nd highest converting operator for last year delivers 30% underneath our average player value, that suggests to me that players aren't hanging around. An explanation has also been offered for this. It was mathematically plausible and relates to a promotional incentive that may not be rewarding the right players. But for our players and for our business, we'd want to see that issue actually addressed before any consideration of offering our seal again.


I think I've been pretty blunt with this response. I'm sure many forum members won't love this post. I doubt BringIt will love some of what I've written either. But everything posted here is honest as I see it. I'll sleep well tonight knowing that.

TP

 

[lockinlove]

Hi Jorge,

I'm sorry to disappoint on this one but my last message to you was a request for what days suited your team. I never got anything back so no travel has been arranged. Specifically no confidentiality agreements were forwarded for review! We have a meeting with another body in Malta I was looking to coordinate with, but they felt it would be preferable to do that in a few months time when some other policies had had a little time to develop. When I didn't hear from you I catered to the other body and assumed this had become lower priority for you. I don't currently have any firm dates booked to be in Malta.




lil - in the other thread you said I was being aggressive? I came over here at your direction, having not seen this post, and you still want to hold to that? With absolute honestly, your concerns are no concerns to us. We don't owe you anything. Had you (again) chosen to PM me or email us to raise your concerns I would have been happy to chat to you about this, as I have several other members here who have done just that. You want answers, ask. You want drama, batter in but my willingness to engage with this sort of interaction is always going to be stunted.

For those interested parties I will give what information I can.

The BringIt group lost their sealed status with us over this issue. There are things I can say and things I can't as I've been on the inside of a lot of conversation both with BringIt and other parties with regard to what's gone on and have access to several pieces of information that were shared in confidence. Do I believe that they are owned even partly by the Vulkan/MaxBet/non-genuine games group? No. There were several factors that indicated that this may have been the case - some public, some not so. But these were address in a fairly thorough manner during private conversations and after significant investigation logical reasons were given for the connections that had been drawn that did not involve sale to a group involved in the distribution of fake games.

So why hasn't their seal been reinstated? There are several reason for this:

i) While I was presented with enough that I don't believe that they are owned by anyone related to any questionable group that has been suggested, I haven't seen who does actually own them Given everything that's happened due diligence would stipulate that has to happen. That was the intention of the trip to Malta. Does it worry me that I don't know the owners? Not really. This is a false standard to hold. There are few groups that I can be absolutely sure of the owners. One of my personal favourite groups - Trada - hold that status specifically because I do know the owners behind the organisation. They're the exception though. Money men don't tend to like to have their names out in public and in the gambling industry this goes double as some players can be erratic. I go to lengths to ensure that my personal address is not in the public domain as I don't need the hassle of having a disgruntled player turning up at my door. I do the same with my image - Bryan can attest to the fact that I've asked him to crop me out of photos from the Meister Meeting for exactly this reason. The lack of willingness to put this information out in public isn't a crime, in fact it's absolutely typical in this industry and in many cases wise. All of that said and as stated previously given everything that's come up I wanted to know who the owners were so I could be assured that this issue was put to bed in my head. That hasn't happened yet. That will require confidentiality agreements. I won't be posting that information. If what I eventually see confirms everything else as I expect it will we'd consider their seal status. But for the time being everything else I've seen is enough that I'm not damning them for operating the same way as just about everyone else. So no seal, but no negative status.

ii) I wasn't massively happy with the manner in which this was all handled. Tempers were lost which is never great. And people who had legitimate reason for being angry were met with hostility when they didn't cool down for 'we're looking into it'. Money was owed, it was delayed and the groups who were owed had every right to be upset. In the situation, whether the BringIt team felt that these issues were warranted or not or whether the criticism was a fair representation of their business, the correct (to my mind) response should have been to say 'we understand your comments and concerns, we're doing everything we can to rectify the situation and we're really, really sorry this has happened. Please bear with us and give us just a few weeks to sort all this out'. With relation to the affiliate payments - communication in advance of the problems would have prevented much of the furore. Meeting any of the comments, whether from players or affiliates, with anything approaching anger was just adding petrol to the fire.

If I'm honest, I actually think that it's rather likely that most of the sale stuff has largely been non-sense that could have been cleared-up very easily before all this came to a head. I understand why it wasn't, but as these things have a habit of doing when left to themselves it's grown arms and legs and taken on a life of its own. The brand has done significant damage to itself over something that to my mind was most likely nothing even approaching noteworthy.

iii) Straight honesty - I'm not currently convinced that we'd want to offer the BringIt properties our seal again. We have data over a significant number of players that shows that the BringIt properties weren't delivering value for us. We've NEVER made placement decisions based on how much a program was paying us. I invite any operator here to step forward and say that they had to agree to pay us above their standard rates to get the placement they hold. I publicly release any operator that wants to speak from any confidentiality arrangements. But when our 2nd highest converting operator for last year delivers 30% underneath our average player value, that suggests to me that players aren't hanging around. An explanation has also been offered for this. It was mathematically plausible and relates to a promotional incentive that may not be rewarding the right players. But for our players and for our business, we'd want to see that issue actually addressed before any consideration of offering our seal again.


I think I've been pretty blunt with this response. I'm sure many forum members won't love this post. I doubt BringIt will love some of what I've written either. But everything posted here is honest as I see it. I'll sleep well tonight knowing that.

TP

You dont care for my opinion. Good for you I guess..sheesh.

Since when is saying that Im concerned suddenly equal to drama or aggressive. Its still my opinion. Why do I need to pm you about it? Why not make a post publicly about the rating since you are stating other members are interested in it? I dont need to PM someone every time there is a public topic where you are involved in. if everyone PM'd everyone about everything well there wouldnt be any content on the forum now would there be? So whats the difference with posting it on a forum or pming or emailing? I dont see how my comment deserves one over the other. I mean I could have pm'd you I guess, I just dont see why it would matter which way I chose to post it?

You have a business built around players signing up to sites you suggest and rate. So we arent allowed to ever question that or be concerned with something? And if we are we suddenly get bombarded with being called dramatic and aggressive and that we dont matter? Sorry Im a bit confused by the top part of your response.


I didnt see why you rate BetAt at over 9.0 when they are purposely hiding who the owners are. It seems untrustworthy.

But You explained yourself in here...even though you didnt have to. Thanks for that. There is a reason why I linked you to here because I was curious as to why.

 

[ThePOGG]

You have a business built around players signing up to sites you suggest and rate. So we arent allowed to ever question that or be concerned with something? And if we are we suddenly get bombarded with being called dramatic and aggressive and that we dont matter? Sorry Im a bit confused by the top part of your response.

That's a pretty sympathetic manner of viewing what you posted.

"Duncan can go wherever he wants."

Dismissive and hostile. You were dismissing any significance of what we were looking to achieve with the previously arranged meeting as if it or anything we may find out was irrelevant to the conversation. Which is then followed up (justified) by:

"I can say Im very concerned to see ThePogg giving them a 9/10 rating and recommending them still. "

Not "I see they're highly rated at TP again - has anyone asked why?" - polite, civil, asking a reasonable question in a reasonable manner. What you've done there is look to call us into question by challenging the decisions we've made publicly with the implication that you believe something is so out of line that you're "very concerned". Not "slightly perturbed". Not "a bit confused". This issue is serious enough that you're "Very concerned", though not concerned enough to have ever reached out to us. And in fact, the quote isn't even phrased as a question, but as a statement.

By implication and connection of the two statements the trip is invalid in your eyes because you have concerns regarding our ratings.

Your intent was not benign, it was to challenge via confrontation. I have no problems with that specifically. Sometimes we all need a little adversity to bring out the best in us. But don't expect to make dismissive, hostile and confrontational statements and get a positive response from a party that has zero obligation towards you. You chose to approaching getting the information you wanted from a position where you immediately implied that you see potential wrongdoing rather than simply asking a pretty basic question. "Why?" If our review was worth acknowledging at all in any way - and every reader's entitled to their own opinion on that front - surely it was worth approaching the issue from a position of simply asking a basic question without provocation?

Definition of "drama" in this sense:

"A way of relating to the world in which a person consistently overreacts to or greatly exaggerates the importance of

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events."

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I would suggest that implying there are reasons to be "very concerned" about our review simply because you don't understand the reasons for the rating without having ever asked any questions about it amounts to "overreacting to benign events". I understand you are angry with the way this situation has been managed. But there's no justification for making us a target for that, especially given we've actually worked fairly consistently throughout this issue to help those impacted parties and get a clear picture of what's actually been going on.

TP

 

[goatwack]

I don't want beef with either of you to be fair

So I'll just ask, Pogg, have you been working out?

Lock, have you done something with your hair?

 

[lockinlove]

I don't want beef with either of you to be fair

So I'll just ask, Pogg, have you been working out?

Lock, have you done something with your hair?

Yeah do you like it

 

[Steviedoo]

That's a pretty sympathetic manner of viewing what you posted.

"Duncan can go wherever he wants."

Dismissive and hostile. You were dismissing any significance of what we were looking to achieve with the previously arranged meeting as if it or anything we may find out was irrelevant to the conversation. Which is then followed up (justified) by:

"I can say Im very concerned to see ThePogg giving them a 9/10 rating and recommending them still. "

Not "I see they're highly rated at TP again - has anyone asked why?" - polite, civil, asking a reasonable question in a reasonable manner. What you've done there is look to call us into question by challenging the decisions we've made publicly with the implication that you believe something is so out of line that you're "very concerned". Not "slightly perturbed". Not "a bit confused". This issue is serious enough that you're "Very concerned", though not concerned enough to have ever reached out to us. And in fact, the quote isn't even phrased as a question, but as a statement.

By implication and connection of the two statements the trip is invalid in your eyes because you have concerns regarding our ratings.

Your intent was not benign, it was to challenge via confrontation. I have no problems with that specifically. Sometimes we all need a little adversity to bring out the best in us. But don't expect to make dismissive, hostile and confrontational statements and get a positive response from a party that has zero obligation towards you. You chose to approaching getting the information you wanted from a position where you immediately implied that you see potential wrongdoing rather than simply asking a pretty basic question. "Why?" If our review was worth acknowledging at all in any way - and every reader's entitled to their own opinion on that front - surely it was worth approaching the issue from a position of simply asking a basic question without provocation?

Definition of "drama" in this sense:

"A way of relating to the world in which a person consistently overreacts to or greatly exaggerates the importance of

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

events."

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I would suggest that implying there are reasons to be "very concerned" about our review simply because you don't understand the reasons for the rating without having ever asked any questions about it amounts to "overreacting to benign events". I understand you are angry with the way this situation has been managed. But there's no justification for making us a target for that, especially given we've actually worked fairly consistently throughout this issue to help those impacted parties and get a clear picture of what's actually been going on.

TP

Is it possible you are being a little bit sensitive....lots of energy lecturing here.

And pretty sure we all know what drama means btw. But thanks for those two definitions just to make sure we all got what you meant.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Just loaded Betat / Slotty for the first time in donkeys.

Surprised to see only Netent & Microgaming. And no Live Casino tables.

They had some 8 or 9 providers just weeks ago? Tried my original location, UK and Germany, all the same with just two providers. And not a single promotional offer.

Are this the signs that the end is near?

 

[mac72]

Just loaded Betat / Slotty for the first time in donkeys.

Surprised to see only Netent & Microgaming. And no Live Casino tables.

They had some 8 or 9 providers just weeks ago? Tried my original location, UK and Germany, all the same with just two providers. And not a single promotional offer.

Are this the signs that the end is near?

No Harry they did an upgrade on both (everyone was pre warned) and I know they were in regular contact with many (myself included) before , during and after. Think you’ll find other providers will be back up and going again soon and there will be a revamped promo system and more payment methods

 

[colinsunderland]

Just loaded Betat / Slotty for the first time in donkeys.

Surprised to see only Netent & Microgaming. And no Live Casino tables.

They had some 8 or 9 providers just weeks ago? Tried my original location, UK and Germany, all the same with just two providers. And not a single promotional offer.

Are this the signs that the end is near?

same for me, I haven't played there for ages though so not sure what other providers they had?

 

[Harry_BKK]

same for me, I haven't played there for ages though so not sure what other providers they had?

BTG, Leander, Genesis, Iron Dog, Elk, Betsoft, 1x2 to name most.

 

[Jono777]

Popped onto live chat tonight as I discovered both my Betat and SV accounts had been locked

Greeted with "Management decision" and the agent wouldn't expand or disclose any further info.

Totally bewildered why, not deposited in ages (accounts were ok during past as I checked here and there for bonus offers but didn't take any) never withdrew any massive amounts, made cash only depo's, didn't abuse bonuses or break any terms so ?????

Currently shopping around for a place I can trust - no other reasons than to have an occasion break from VS, Casumo and LV where my luck 99/100 has been beyond awful for month's

Not going to push it since forum presence is rare and I'll leave it closed and done with. Just frustrating when I get "punished" for doing no wrong

 

[curremon]

Popped onto live chat tonight as I discovered both my Betat and SV accounts had been locked

Greeted with "Management decision" and the agent wouldn't expand or disclose any further info.

Totally bewildered why, not deposited in ages (accounts were ok during past as I checked here and there for bonus offers but didn't take any) never withdrew any massive amounts, made cash only depo's, didn't abuse bonuses or break any terms so ?????

Currently shopping around for a place I can trust - no other reasons than to have an occasion break from VS, Casumo and LV where my luck 99/100 has been beyond awful for month's

Not going to push it since forum presence is rare and I'll leave it closed and done with. Just frustrating when I get "punished" for doing no wrong

Same here.. both accounts closed

 

[brianmon]

Popped onto live chat tonight as I discovered both my Betat and SV accounts had been locked

Greeted with "Management decision" and the agent wouldn't expand or disclose any further info.

Totally bewildered why, not deposited in ages (accounts were ok during past as I checked here and there for bonus offers but didn't take any) never withdrew any massive amounts, made cash only depo's, didn't abuse bonuses or break any terms so ?????

Currently shopping around for a place I can trust - no other reasons than to have an occasion break from VS, Casumo and LV where my luck 99/100 has been beyond awful for month's

Not going to push it since forum presence is rare and I'll leave it closed and done with. Just frustrating when I get "punished" for doing no wrong

Have you had a Sow request from them?

I had to answer a few questions a while ago.
But then last week they sent me an email asking for proof of earnings for RG, even though I've probably only deposited about £100, in total, since the first request.

If i had deposited thousands then fair enough. But for them to say they're concerned about me being able to afford to deposit £100 spread over several months. Is a bit of an insult.

So I refused and asked them to close my account.

I have my own business, and would need a VERY good reason to send sensitive and personal information such as my accounts or bank statements to a casino. £100 in deposits is NOT a good reason.

Having just checked, my account is still open, and there's a £15 NDB sat waiting for me.
But on trying to open a game. I get a message saying I'm not allowed to play and to contact CS.

Sorry Betat. But a £15 bonus isn't going to buy my information

 

[Jono777]

No Brian, no SoW request, in fact no communication at all.

FWIW, I wouldn't comply with SoW for my pathetic £25 deposit 3-4 times per week, maybe only at a casino who sees 90% of my budget and thats with my back against the wall, nothing to hide, just totally disagree with SoW regardless of why they do it.

Come to think of it I've had nothing for a long while now. Their offers used to go straight in my spam folder (even tho I told Yahoo "not Spam" 1,000 times ) but I'd usually catch if before deleting and have a FS or deposit match.

Account(s) must have been closed for a while.

All I can think of (and could be totally wrong) is when new owners took over, they did a sweep of no/little value players and "got rid" - it is after all in their terms they can close acocunt without reason disclosed.

As you say in not so many words, no great loss really.

 

[colinsunderland]

Weirdly I can't login to my betat account, but apparently the account doesn't have any blocks on it, yet I get wrong password and the lost password link doesn't work.

 

[mac72]

Weirdly I can't login to my betat account, but apparently the account doesn't have any blocks on it, yet I get wrong password and the lost password link doesn't work.

I know that was one particular issue after the upgrade that some accounts required password updating but can’t comment as to why the link doesn’t work

 

[Harry_BKK]

Weirdly I can't login to my betat account, but apparently the account doesn't have any blocks on it, yet I get wrong password and the lost password link doesn't work.

I can still log-in. TBH, wouldn't be too bothered if it wasn't the case.

 

[paul7388]

Not even logged in their for ages so checked.

Password i thought i used never worked. Reset it and logged in fine. So can't be because people haven't played there for a while that accounts are locked

 

[paul7388]

repeat post

 

[Playford7]

As a once VIP at betat I’m shocked how these guys have changed.
Like jono, I logged in a few days back to be told my account is frozen...
I email them and basically said the same ‘management decision and have a good year’
Also my slotty has gone... emailed them also and no reply..
The last bit of faith I had in these guys after the alleged stuff has now gone.
Also PM’d the rep. Last week.
No reply, I’m no abuser or bad player, I even had a good relationship with Vaughan the rep...
Such a shame as I used to really like these guys, even posted on here how much I liked them.
RIP betat of old.