bet24.com Unfair practice?

[rainmaker]

I have a problemt with Bet24.com
I am a new costumer at Bet24.com and I made my first deposit and received a bonus witch gave me a bonus rollover amount of about € 4000. Fair enough.

I played away my bonus and my deposit, so my account was about zero. The bonus rollover amount was about € 3000 or something when the bonus and my deposit was lost.

Then I made a new deposit without any bonuses. The thing is, that my deposit was then bonus-locked! I lost the money and did a new deposit who was also bonus locked. Last night I did a deposit of € 230, and all of mine own money was one again bonus locked because of the bonus rollover amount from my "first deposit"-bonus is not completed. It still says that the bonus rollover amount is about € 2000. It means, if I deposit € 2000 of my own money today, all of them will be bonus locked. It means that I cannot withdraw my own money.

I believe that this is clearly an error. So I contacted the custom-support. Two of the people there has told me that I am wrong (Mette and Frida from support team).

Please understand that this is not about getting free money from bonuses. I am not a bonus-chaser. I have never experienced a practice like this. It is like I don`t own my own deposit?

I cannot recommend Bet24.com if this is the way they do business. So be aware.



What do you think?

 

[Marie2473]

I didnt know that bet24 did this, however I have heard about other casinos using this as well. i think that Intercasino is or was one atleast. Igf i remember correctly the bonus stayed active for a month or 2 and then your account was 0 again...
I would not play at a casino that uses this policy. When a deposit with a bonus is gone, so should the Wagering requirements IMO ..
Find another casino to play at!!

 

[rainmaker]

Thanks for a reply. I did not even know that some casinos even had this practise, I thought that somethings was wrong. I have used a couple of casinos before, like Centrebet without any problems. But now I wanted to use a casino who uses NetEnt as provider. But it is not an option to use Bet24.com if this is the way they do it.

I didnt know that bet24 did this, however I have heard about other casinos using this as well. i think that Intercasino is or was one atleast. Igf i remember correctly the bonus stayed active for a month or 2 and then your account was 0 again...
I would not play at a casino that uses this policy. When a deposit with a bonus is gone, so should the Wagering requirements IMO ..
Find another casino to play at!!

 

[Mallorca]

Hi,
If you want to play at Net Entertainment casinos you should try Betsson and Casino Euro. These two are the best Net.Ent casinos in my opinion and both were accredited here a few years ago and still good to go.I play at both casinos and never experienced a problem.
Good luck.
Mallorca.

 

[deucebag]

Unless it's made clear in the terms and conditions that wagering requirements on previously lost bonuses have to me met on future deposits, it's not OK at all. You should not accept it. I would submit a PAB on it.

 

[rainmaker]

Unless it's made clear in the terms and conditions that wagering requirements on previously lost bonuses have to me met on future deposits, it's not OK at all. You should not accept it. I would submit a PAB on it.

Thank you. I am new, may I ask what a PAB is ?

 

[leonardo99]

Thank you. I am new, may I ask what a PAB is ?

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

 

[rainmaker]

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

Thanks, I will consider that Since bet24 is a member here, I have sent a mail to them, referrering to this post. So I will give them some time to look into it and answer. I believe that bet24.com is a trustworthy casino, so they might find out that this is a unfair practice. Or maybe it is just a technical error.

 

[Jufo]

This is something that has been added quite recently to some NetEnt casinos. Previously if you busted a bonus, it cleared the WR. But now they have added this "feature" as a trap to players. A friend told me that the customer support will remove uncleared bonuses if you know to request it before depositing.

 

[rainmaker]

It is strange that a welll known casino like Bet24.com would use such a lousy way to trap players. I know that Unibet, who also uses NetEnt don`t have a unfarly system like that.

This is something that has been added quite recently to some NetEnt casinos. Previously if you busted a bonus, it cleared the WR. But now they have added this "feature" as a trap to players. A friend told me that the customer support will remove uncleared bonuses if you know to request it before depositing.

 

[Bet24]

bet24.com Unfair practice?

@ rainmaker

My name is Anders and I work in the Bet24 Casino dept.

I have been made aware of your post today and have had a chance to take a look at the bonus you are referring to.

First of all I would like to say that I am sorry to hear that you have had problems in our site and more specifically in our Casino and that we as a Casino of course will take your matter serious.

I can see that you sent a mail to one of our mail boxes on the 20th of Dec. asking for a specific bonus which we offered on a Norwegian Casino site and we chose to give you this bonus.

The rollover for this bonus was x50, which you can also see if you visit this Casino site and go to the Bet24 review (I have not added a link as I do not know if that is allowed) where details for this bonus is mentioned.

This means that as you chose to deposit €100 we also added €100 in bonus money making the rollover of €5000, which you are still trying to clear.

Reason that this rollover is still active is that you have at no point been to 0 in your Casino account and according to our Casino bonus rules it is not possible to withdraw from your Casino account before the rollover req. are met for any given bonus.

This also means that future deposits made while this rollover is active will be locked.

I believe that this is standard rules when it comes to most Casinos bonuses.

You are free to withdraw at any given point which will unfortunately result in you forfeiting your bonus.

I hope that this sheds some more light on the matter, but if you should feel the need for further clarification please send a mail to our support again and mention that it is regarding this issue and Anders from Bet24 has asked you to send a mail.

Kind regards

Anders
Team Bet24

 

[rainmaker]

Thank you for a reply bet24/ Anders.

I have two mails from your support-team. The one is saying "the bonus-rollover amount will not disappear if your account is zero". You can check it yourself. The other one is just agreeing

Yes I did recieve a special bonus offer. But it is still a "first-time bonus offer".

It is not correct that my balance never went to zero. My casino account did, and my betting account went down to NOK 0.01 (about £ 0,001).

I have never been in a casino where this is standard rules.

I think this will end the discussion. Thanks anyway

 

[rainmaker]

By the way Anders. I found the T&C for my bonus that you are reffering to.

" This promotion is valid from 03.08.2010 and is valid only for Norwegian customers who have registered with Bet24 via Norskcasinoguide.com. Bet24 reserves the right to suspend or modify this offer at any time without notice.
Only one bonus per customer / IP / household, and it must be wagered 50 times on our casino games (with the exception of Baccarat, Blackjack, Punto Banco, Pontoon, Double Exposure, Jacks or Better, Casino Hold Em and Roulette) before withdrawal is possible" .


Not a single word that my future deposits will be bonus locked.

 

[deucebag]

Reason that this rollover is still active is that you have at no point been to 0 in your Casino account and according to our Casino bonus rules it is not possible to withdraw from your Casino account before the rollover req. are met for any given bonus.

This also means that future deposits made while this rollover is active will be locked.

I believe that this is standard rules when it comes to most Casinos bonuses.

It is standard practice that when the bonus balance reaches zero, the wagering requirement will not roll over to future deposits. This is only logical, because if it was not the case, it would discourage the player to make further deposits. If the bonus is lost, it cannot be wagered any more.

 

[rainmaker]

It is standard practice that when the bonus balance reaches zero, the wagering requirement will not roll over to future deposits. This is only logical, because if it was not the case, it would discourage the player to make further deposits. If the bonus is lost, it cannot be wagered any more.

Yes, that is standard rules. In my case, my future deposits have been bonus-locked, that is not standard rules or standard practice. Like now, I have € 400 im my casino account. Comes from my own deposit. All are bonus locked from a bonus of €100 that I lost for 1-2 weeks ago. What a great deal

 

[vinylweatherman]

@ rainmaker

My name is Anders and I work in the Bet24 Casino dept.

I have been made aware of your post today and have had a chance to take a look at the bonus you are referring to.

First of all I would like to say that I am sorry to hear that you have had problems in our site and more specifically in our Casino and that we as a Casino of course will take your matter serious.

I can see that you sent a mail to one of our mail boxes on the 20th of Dec. asking for a specific bonus which we offered on a Norwegian Casino site and we chose to give you this bonus.

The rollover for this bonus was x50, which you can also see if you visit this Casino site and go to the Bet24 review (I have not added a link as I do not know if that is allowed) where details for this bonus is mentioned.

This means that as you chose to deposit €100 we also added €100 in bonus money making the rollover of €5000, which you are still trying to clear.

Reason that this rollover is still active is that you have at no point been to 0 in your Casino account and according to our Casino bonus rules it is not possible to withdraw from your Casino account before the rollover req. are met for any given bonus.

This also means that future deposits made while this rollover is active will be locked.

I believe that this is standard rules when it comes to most Casinos bonuses.

You are free to withdraw at any given point which will unfortunately result in you forfeiting your bonus.

I hope that this sheds some more light on the matter, but if you should feel the need for further clarification please send a mail to our support again and mention that it is regarding this issue and Anders from Bet24 has asked you to send a mail.

Kind regards

Anders
Team Bet24

Can the complainant demonstrate that he HAS gone down to zero before making another deposit, and finding it locked.

I find it hard to believe that a player can repeatedly look at their balance, and believe it says "0.00" when it is NOT actually zero.

Is the cause of all of this the odd PENNY left in the betting account?

I sometimes have odd pennies, and some softwares just do not allow them to be got rid of because no games support bets that low.

If there is a slot that allows a 0.01 coin, play off the odd penny by selecting this, and playing only ONE line on the slot. Microgaming have slots where odd amounts can be got rid of like this, but I don't know about NetEnt slots. Other MGS slots have a minimum coin of 0.25, so these would NOT allow a balance to be cleared to zero.

 

[Jufo]

Can the complainant demonstrate that he HAS gone down to zero before making another deposit, and finding it locked.

I find it hard to believe that a player can repeatedly look at their balance, and believe it says "0.00" when it is NOT actually zero.

Is the cause of all of this the odd PENNY left in the betting account?

I sometimes have odd pennies, and some softwares just do not allow them to be got rid of because no games support bets that low.

Yes, NetEnt casinos have many slots where you can play the balance to exactly zero with 0.01 bets, just like MG. I have heard reports that even completely zeroing the account doesn't always remove the bonus. After zeroing out you have to specifically contact CS to remove the bonus, so it is clearly designed as a trap. Without knowing the details I don't know if this is what happened at Bet24 but a casino owned by Betsson does this.

 

[silcnlayc]

I have seen many Rival casinos with the warning at the claiming page prior to depositing that an account must be zeroed out if you want the wagering on a previous bonus terms not to continue. I think some other casinos also have this term and rule but cannot remember just where I have seen ...but I have seen and read this.


Another reason to stay away from bonuses. Hopefully, the casino will do the right thing and fix this for you this time.

.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, NetEnt casinos have many slots where you can play the balance to exactly zero with 0.01 bets, just like MG. I have heard reports that even completely zeroing the account doesn't always remove the bonus. After zeroing out you have to specifically contact CS to remove the bonus, so it is clearly designed as a trap. Without knowing the details I don't know if this is what happened at Bet24 but a casino owned by Betsson does this.

It seems that way. Why ADD a feature to fix something that WORKED FINE BEFORE! It seems zeroing out USED to cancel the bonus, yet they added some feature to STOP this from happening automatically, and now players have to know (they are not told, are they) to contact support to have the WR carryover removed manually.

The rep has SPECIFICALLY said that THIS case was down to the player NOT reaching a zero balance. This risks the rep having "egg on their face" if it turns out otherwise. The player seems pretty certain they DID zero out completely, and more than once!

So, how is this NOT a trap under these circumstances?

 

[rainmaker]

It seems that way. Why ADD a feature to fix something that WORKED FINE BEFORE! It seems zeroing out USED to cancel the bonus, yet they added some feature to STOP this from happening automatically, and now players have to know (they are not told, are they) to contact support to have the WR carryover removed manually.

The rep has SPECIFICALLY said that THIS case was down to the player NOT reaching a zero balance. This risks the rep having "egg on their face" if it turns out otherwise. The player seems pretty certain they DID zero out completely, and more than once!

So, how is this NOT a trap under these circumstances?

Yes, I am sure that my casino account went down to zero. I think that the Rep from bet24 maybe looked at my sports account witch only went down to 0,001 or something. I usually play Mega Fortune, and in that game its possible to get down to Zero. I went down to zero several times, so its a bit strange.

Remember that I also got a mail from the support team at Bet24, saying that my bonus rollover will not be removed if my account goes down to zero. I still have this mail in my account.

I think it is strange that bet24 did not even remove my bonus rollover when I made them aware of it. My bonus was € 100 and my deposits over the last couple of weeks are almost € 600. It is quite clear that I am not a bonus chaser.

Anyway, I have now played over the bonus rollover and I finally "own" my own money in my casino account. But I think I have made my last deposit at Bet24.

 

[petro]

bet42:
"You are free to withdraw at any given point which will unfortunately result in you forfeiting your bonus."

Seems to contradict what OP said.

 

[rainmaker]

bet42:
"You are free to withdraw at any given point which will unfortunately result in you forfeiting your bonus."

Seems to contradict what OP said.

At one point, I had about €400 in my account. All of them from my own deposit of €200 + €200 from winnings. All of them was bonus locked, so if I had tried to withdraw them, all of them would have been taken by bet24. A bit crazy But yes, rep from bet24 is correct when he is saying that I am free to "withdraw"- He just forgot to tell us that bet24 would have taken all of my own money if I had tried to withdraw.

 

[petro]

@ Rainmaker:
I thought that was the case.
I think Jufo was right when he said; "But now they have added this "feature" as a trap to players."
Online casinos' t&c are like minefields.

Some further advice could be to keep the balance as it is and see if you can work this out with the PaB system.
That is, if you still have any $ in there.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, I am sure that my casino account went down to zero. I think that the Rep from bet24 maybe looked at my sports account witch only went down to 0,001 or something. I usually play Mega Fortune, and in that game its possible to get down to Zero. I went down to zero several times, so its a bit strange.

Remember that I also got a mail from the support team at Bet24, saying that my bonus rollover will not be removed if my account goes down to zero. I still have this mail in my account.

I think it is strange that bet24 did not even remove my bonus rollover when I made them aware of it. My bonus was € 100 and my deposits over the last couple of weeks are almost € 600. It is quite clear that I am not a bonus chaser.

Anyway, I have now played over the bonus rollover and I finally "own" my own money in my casino account. But I think I have made my last deposit at Bet24.

So, who is lying. Support or the rep?

BOTH should know the answer to this question, yet each gives the OPPOSITE answer

Is it any wonder that players DON'T TRUST THE CASINOS to be honest in their dealings.

We keep on seeing stories like this, and when the operator is "outed" by the evidence, they fall back on excuses such as "this CS agent is no longer with us; a technical problem.......; this was a misunderstanding.......".

I too have encountered what are CLEARLY mistakes or technical problems, yet have had to clash heads with clueless CS staff who insist nothing is wrong, or who have to refer the matter to "marketing" or "management" who never seem to do anything about it in the hope that they can ignore the problem and it will go away.

Oddly enough, this is what has happened in this case. They have stalled, given contradictory answers, accused the player of lying (zero or not zero). Having kept this performance up for a few days, the problem has gone away & they no longer have to deal with it

Anyway, I have now played over the bonus rollover and I finally "own" my own money in my casino account. But I think I have made my last deposit at Bet24.

 

[petro]

We keep on seeing stories like this, and when the operator is "outed" by the evidence, they fall back on excuses such as "this CS agent is no longer with us; a technical problem.......; this was a misunderstanding......."

Oldest trick in the book. When they get caught out using it they say; "Oh, sorry about that here's your money back"
As if we don't know what they are doing.

 

[rainmaker]

@ Rainmaker:
I thought that was the case.
I think Jufo was right when he said; "But now they have added this "feature" as a trap to players."
Online casinos' t&c are like minefields.

Some further advice could be to keep the balance as it is and see if you can work this out with the PaB system.
That is, if you still have any $ in there.

Thanks for the advice, but I do not have any more funds in the account. As I mentioned, I have played through my bonus rollover, but have now lost my deposits. It takes some money to play through a € 5000 bonus rollover

 

[Jufo]

For future reference: If you play and lose your deposit and bonus at any NetEnt casino, go to the bonuses section to see if the bonus is still there. If it is, then contact CS and ask them to remove it or you will not deposit anymore. If they reject the request, tell them you are not coming back. I have done this with Intercasino, who does the same thing, and suddenly the CS becomes very willing to remove uncleared bonuses. Only by doing this they will see that this "setup" harms them financially in the long run.

 

[rainmaker]

So, who is lying. Support or the rep?

BOTH should know the answer to this question, yet each gives the OPPOSITE answer

Is it any wonder that players DON'T TRUST THE CASINOS to be honest in their dealings.

We keep on seeing stories like this, and when the operator is "outed" by the evidence, they fall back on excuses such as "this CS agent is no longer with us; a technical problem.......; this was a misunderstanding.......".

I too have encountered what are CLEARLY mistakes or technical problems, yet have had to clash heads with clueless CS staff who insist nothing is wrong, or who have to refer the matter to "marketing" or "management" who never seem to do anything about it in the hope that they can ignore the problem and it will go away.

Oddly enough, this is what has happened in this case. They have stalled, given contradictory answers, accused the player of lying (zero or not zero). Having kept this performance up for a few days, the problem has gone away & they no longer have to deal with it

I took a screenshot from my mail I recieved from Bet24. It is in danish, but people from Scandinavia will see that it says "the bonus rollover amount will not disappear if you dont have any more money at your account. The bonus rollover amount must be met before withdrawing any funds". It also says that the bonus rollover amount shall be met even though I deposit new funds. Screenshot as an attachment below.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[Jufo]

I took a screenshot from my mail I recieved from Bet24. It is in danish, but people from Scandinavia will see that it says "the bonus rollover amount will not disappear if you dont have any more money at your account. The bonus rollover amount must be met before withdrawing any funds". It also says that the bonus rollover amount shall be met even though I deposit new funds. Screenshot as an attachment below.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

You should send that e-mail to the Bet24 rep who replied to you in this thread and ask him to explain the conflicting infromation. And you could forward the reply made by Bet24 rep in this thread to the customer support agent (Mette) who gave you that answer. Since you already lost your deposits, there is little to be done to have justice anymore, but you could still ask for explanation.

 

[rainmaker]

You should send that e-mail to the Bet24 rep who replied to you in this thread and ask him to explain the conflicting infromation. And you could forward the reply made by Bet24 rep in this thread to the customer support agent (Mette) who gave you that answer. Since you already lost your deposits, there is little to be done to have justice anymore, but you could still ask for explanation.

It would be interesting to know how the rep would explain the conflicting answers that he and the CS gave me. This is more about the principled, then the money. But I dont care to bother them with mails. I just use another Casino

 

[Jufo]

It would be interesting to know how the rep would explain the conflicting answers that he and the CS gave me. This is more about the principled, then the money. But I dont care to bother them with mails. I just use another Casino

It's you choice of course but you might help some other player in a similar situation.

 

[rainmaker]

It's you choice of course but you might help some other player in a similar situation.

That is a good point. And that is also why I did start this thread, to make people aware of this practice. The bet24 team has two account at CM, so maybe one of them will give us an answer here. But I will reconsider, and maybe send them a mail if we dont get any reply here

 

[Jufo]

Yes, an explanation from Bet24 rep is certainly expected in this thread. If no explanation is given, that speaks for itself.

 

[rainmaker]

You should send that e-mail to the Bet24 rep who replied to you in this thread and ask him to explain the conflicting infromation. And you could forward the reply made by Bet24 rep in this thread to the customer support agent (Mette) who gave you that answer. Since you already lost your deposits, there is little to be done to have justice anymore, but you could still ask for explanation.

I followed your advice and sent a e-mail to the rep last night, where I asked for an explanation. I have not recieved any reply yet, but I look forward to see how they will explain the conflicting information.

 

[rainmaker]

I followed your advice and sent a e-mail to the rep last night, where I asked for an explanation. I have not recieved any reply yet, but I look forward to see how they will explain the conflicting information.

Okei, It has been three days since I sent a e-mail to bet24, asking for an explanation. But I have not got any reply. So it is probably of no interest for them.

Thanks anyway for the people on the forum who replied in this thread

 

[Jufo]

Okei, It has been three days since I sent a e-mail to bet24, asking for an explanation. But I have not got any reply. So it is probably of no interest for them.

Thanks anyway for the people on the forum who replied in this thread

Customer support is not usually interested helping you out once they already have your money. They are more likely to help before they have your money But now you know how to play it correctly next time, right?

 

[rainmaker]

Customer support is not usually interested helping you out once they already have your money. They are more likely to help before they have your money But now you know how to play it correctly next time, right?

Yes, the correct way for me is to use Betsson in the future

 

[Jufo]

Yes, the correct way for me is to use Betsson in the future

A word of warning. One Betsson owned casino (Suomiarvat.com) has the same set up of busted bonuses remaining in your account. So I'd advise you to take care if you play there.

 

[rainmaker]

A word of warning. One Betsson owned casino (Suomiarvat.com) has the same set up of busted bonuses remaining in your account. So I'd advise you to take care if you play there.

Thank you for the warning, but no more bonuses for me. I have opened a Betsson account, and will do the deposits without bonuses. They have a nice system at Betsson, where you can pick your own bonuses after the deposit (when you transfer between internal accounts). Looks like a good site.

 

[Mallorca]

Hi,
I play at Betsson too.It is a good site and regarding busted bonus remaining in the account just go to live support and they`ll remove the remaining bonuses.They did it a couple of times for me.
As well cashouts through Neteller are very fast even on weekends, sometimes almost instant or max a couple of hours...Hope this helps.

 

[rainmaker]

Hi,
I play at Betsson too.It is a good site and regarding busted bonus remaining in the account just go to live support and they`ll remove the remaining bonuses.They did it a couple of times for me.
As well cashouts through Neteller are very fast even on weekends, sometimes almost instant or max a couple of hours...Hope this helps.

Yes, it looks great . I have only done one deposit of £800 yet. They uses NetEnt (the same as bet24), witch is the casino-provider I want to use, so I think Betsson will be a good choice

 

[rainmaker]

@ rainmaker

My name is Anders and I work in the Bet24 Casino dept.

I hope that this sheds some more light on the matter, but if you should feel the need for further clarification please send a mail to our support again and mention that it is regarding this issue and Anders from Bet24 has asked you to send a mail.Kind regards

Anders
Team Bet24

Just an update. I have closed my account at bet24.com. Anders, who is the rep on casinomeister told us abowe that I could send him a mail. I did and he did not answer. It has been almost 2 weeks.

Its not good that a big and well known casino behaves like this. I dont understand why they even bother to have a rep on casinomeister (they even has two accounts here at casinomeister)

 

[Jufo]

I agree it sounds strange and you seem to be the kind of customer that they should be lucky to have... Well it's their loss.

 

[rainmaker]

I agree it sounds strange and you seem to be the kind of customer that they should be lucky to have... Well it's their loss.

Yes, I`m a big loser so probably a good customer

 

[topoor]

Hi,

Ive just read this thread and I wanted to let you know that this is not a mistake by Bet24 it is their policy. They apply the same rules to any bonus they give you. Sportsbook as well. The rollover must be completed no matter what - I have found this out to my detriment. The rep is wrong to post otherwise. Its a silly policy because if you lose your bonus and deposit you are inclined not to return.

 

[Jufo]

So the Bet24 rep who posted in this thread was blatantly lying then. Wow, bad bad...

 

[rainmaker]

Hey topoor. Thanks for reading my thread. You say that the bonus rollover must be completed no matter what, then you are confirming what I experienced. It is only the rep (Anders) from Bet24 who answered early in this thread who says this is wrong. Customer service has told me twice that the bonus rollover must be completed not matter what. I have experienced this, and you have. I think that Jufo is right, the rep was lying (or was not updated?) in his post.

And the rep has not even answered my email, even thoug he wrote in this thread, that I could send him a personal mail and he would look at it.

Bet24 was last logged in at casinomeister about 10 days ago. Not a word.

 

[Sentinel]

Don't accept a. Bonus in the. First place these unscrupulous sites are. Praying on. Peoples natural greed. They want you. To. Play longer knowing you're likely to. Lose it. All. Avoid at all costs...

 

[rainmaker]

Don't accept a. Bonus in the. First place these unscrupulous sites are. Praying on. Peoples natural greed. They want you. To. Play longer knowing you're likely to. Lose it. All. Avoid at all costs...

That is true. Bonuses are usually no good. But, I was gonna play a progressive jackpot game (Mega Fortune). In that game, I think it is OK to use a bonus.

 

[Diane]

Don't accept a. Bonus in the. First place these unscrupulous sites are. Praying on. Peoples natural greed. They want you. To. Play longer knowing you're likely to. Lose it. All. Avoid at all costs...

I disagree on bonuses.

My analogy would be playing with a bonus is like leasing a car instead of buying a car.

Leasing allows you generally to avoid a large downpayment and you get to drive a nicer/more expensive car than you could have otherwise afforded. At the end of the lease you can keep the car, or you can give it back and get another one.....

Bonuses allow you to play higher or longer than you might have on your own. You know its not really your money -- but you hope it helps propel you into MORE of your money for a win.

Bonuses aren't good or bad. Its just a personal preference.

Diane