BELLEROCK - Fraudsters Beware

[cynowoo]

Hello, everyone:

I signed up with luckynugget,made the first deposit 50 and was awarded 200 sign up bonus , which requires 20x roller over on slots that is (50+200)x20=5000 I played $5060.36 on slots and another $5000 on blackjack , which satisfied the wager requirement and also got the confirm email of their support that I was ok to withdraw.

I made the request of withdraw on Oct 9th, 2004, and submited my Driver License, Bank Statement, Neteller Screen Shoot (including my deposit transauction with Belle Rock Group), all above got their email confirmed. the withdraw is $1086.The hassle begins from the following, they never response me and got my account locked , request me another utility bill and second ID photocopy, I had provided my cable bill and most clear ID photo as they requested.They still had no response.

I gave them 16 calls basically 2 call per day , answer is the same: we still processing/reviewing .please wait for another 24 hours. everytime is the same. so far 12 days past , I still being locked and no pay , please be aware and keep away.

I got a question : do they need 12 days to process the documents? do they have other good excuses. Following is the email from them suggest me waiting

Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:03:57 +0200

"Kindly note that the documents that you have forwarded us is still under review. Please be advised that as soon as the documents have been approved your casino account will be re-opened and your withdrawal will be processed.

Clinton
Customer Service representative."

Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:47:58 +0200

"Rest assured that we have forwarded them through to our Processing Risk Department for further review. We sincerely appreciate the time and effort you took to send us the information. Please allow up to 24 hours for the review of your documentation.
Primrose
Customer Service Consultant "

Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:49:26 +0200
"We would like to inform you that we are still investigating this matter and hope to reach a resolution shortly.

We kindly ask for your ongoing patience and we thank you for your understanding.
Marlon
Customer Service Consultant "


Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:53:45 +0200
We are pleased to inform you that we have received the scanned copy of your drivers license and kindly ask for your ongoing patience.
Jim
Customer Services Representative

Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:14:22 +0200
Once your information has been reviewed and resolved your casino account will be re-opened and your payment released immediately.
Andre
Customer Services Representative

Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:11:09 +0200
The document has been forwarded to our Processing Centre for verification. Once the document has been approved, your withdrawals will be processed.
Lungiswa
Customer Service Consultant

Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:55:24 +0200
Once your information has been reviewed and resolved your casino account will be re-opened and your payment released shortly.
Nicholas
Customer Service Agent

Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:18:41 +0200
We would like to thank you for the documentation which you have sent in. We can confirm that we have forwarded this documentation to the relevant department for validation. Please allow 24 hours for the relevant department to validate the documentation
Mario
Customer Service Consultant

Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:23:41 +0200
Kindly note that we have looked into this matte for you and see that your winnings are still pending. We have sent a request to our Operations Department to have this amount processed to you immediately.
Nicholas
Customer Service Agent

YES, all of them asked up to 24 hours wating ,just wait but no answer. HOW many 24 hours past ? 12 days already!!!
ITS just $1085 based on the fact I have sent them all the verification ducuments.

 

[Black21Jack]

That is quite a run around. I just recently started playing at Maple Casino and have withdrawn numerous times without ever having to send any documents. I get paid within a couple of days. Normally I am cautious about believing players who prematurely post to stay away from a casino but I do not agree with the fact that they need all these 24 hour review periods. How long could it take for them to look at documents and decide on what action they will take? This turns me off from playing there but I will wait to see how they resolve this problem before I form an opinion on this group.

Edit: Not to change the subject but did you get your money from King Solomons?

 

[cynowoo]

YES , Kingsofsolmons is really reliable
on the 3rd day after request,I got 3 withdraws from them ( due to the fact that maximum transauction is $2500), I got my $6000 withdraw very smoothly

the same documents they processed.

Edit: Not to change the subject but did you get your money from King Solomons?

 

[The Dude]

LET's remeber and keep away those fxx bitch:
Clinton Primrose Marlon Jim Andre Lungiswa Nicholas

NO PAY at LUCKYNUGGET & BELLE ROCK. STAY AWAY

What the hell is this?

This is another prime example on how NOT to handle a complaint in this forum. You sent me a copy of your documents last night, and again today. It's not like I'm sitting here waiting for you to have a problem and jump right on it el Pronto.

And talk about impatience. They received your scanned docs on Sunday when possibly the person needed to review these documents was out. What the hell?

Rude? Lie? This is exactly what I can't stand - rude players who think that this forum is a free-for-all to bash whomever.

Bellrock is a member of this forum, you could have easily PM'd them. I'll return to this thread when I cool off.

 

[cynowoo]

Sorry , Bryan , I am a bit out of emotion when I called them again
and told they are still reviewing.

Why I say them"lie" is that : every customer support I called them told me a different reason:
Andre told me :everything is fine , but we need document from netller to indentify.

The fact is that they tried to contact neteller for further info, Neteller called me yesterday that Neteller refused their request ,just asked them directly call me.

So they changed their words: my ID is not clear , you can see how unclear it is since I sent you.

For the sunday's copy I sent you ,thats the 4th time I re-sent them again and again. I sent the 1st as early as Oct 9th 2004

All other casinos processed the same document: FL,VPL, Trident Group
all RTG even the strict Conncet to casino accepted it. Do I need show my accounts number with them to verify? Is the Belle Rock that special?

They often threanten to terminate my call since I request to speak their supervisor.

I apologized for my wrong-doing, just changed the title and blank my original post.

See how it is going.

thanks anyway.

What the hell is this?

This is another prime example on how NOT to handle a complaint in this forum. You sent me a copy of your documents last night, and again today. It's not like I'm sitting here waiting for you to have a problem and jump right on it el Pronto.

And talk about impatience. They received your scanned docs on Sunday when possibly the person needed to review these documents was out. What the hell?

Rude? Lie? This is exactly what I can't stand - rude players who think that this forum is a free-for-all to bash whomever.

Bellrock is a member of this forum, you could have easily PM'd them. I'll return to this thread when I cool off.

 

[bethug]

I never had problems with bellrock group, i never fax any doc over either. Luckynugget and riverbelle been around a long time. you have to give them time to go over your docs, and for them to lock your account, they feel something is up

 

[cynowoo]

I got confused 2. I cant stand on the endless waiting , anyproblem is welcome raised by them.
Do you think they shy to disclose my any possible wrong-doing?

I never had problems with bellrock group, i never fax any doc over either. Luckynugget and riverbelle been around a long time. you have to give them time to go over your docs, and for them to lock your account, they feel something is up

 

[dominique]

I got confused 2. I cant stand on the endless waiting , anyproblem is welcome raised by them.
Do you think they shy to disclose my any possible wrong-doing?

Ok, I am usually really good at decyphering foreign accents, but I don't understand the above.

I was going to post but now I need to know what you mean by that before I do so.

 

[bethug]

cynowoo, did u use the same info at the other bell rock casinos?

 

[jpm]

I don't like this group either, they change the rules of their promotions after the fact and award prizes 'randomly' that should have been awarded based on quality of the entry according to the rules. Then backtrack and say it was awarded properly, which is b.s.

I'd like to know why is bellerock asking for screenshots of your neteller account???? They have absolutely NO RIGHT to this information. Neteller has already certified you to use their service and that should be good enough for ANY casino. If any casino asks you for this kind of information, DON'T SUPPLY IT and send a written complaint to Neteller. Neteller will tell you that the casino has no right or reason to ask for this information and it goes directly against Neteller's charter. From their website "Because you only enter your payment details at our secure site, online merchants never have access to your credit card or bank details, so you can rest assured that no unauthorized transactions will occur and information about your identity remains protected."

 

[cynowoo]

I only request to withdraw at LuckyNugget
and gaming club deposit $50 too ,lost

with both of them I submitted the same info as my ID and NETELLER

cynowoo, did u use the same info at the other bell rock casinos?

 

[cynowoo]

I dont know them either.

Just per they request , I sent everything.

Now they have my 4 copys of ID, 4 copys of Cable_bill, 4 copy of Bank_statement, 4 copy of neteller_screen SHOT

THEY even tried to contact NETELER for my Social Securiy Number
Fortunately Neteller refused them and called me about this issue.

YOU can make a judgement on what I said.

I can prove myself with all the documents and email communication , phone record between them.

I don't like this group either, they change the rules of their promotions after the fact and award prizes 'randomly' that should have been awarded based on quality of the entry according to the rules. Then backtrack and say it was awarded properly, which is b.s.

I'd like to know why is bellerock asking for screenshots of your neteller account???? They have absolutely NO RIGHT to this information. Neteller has already certified you to use their service and that should be good enough for ANY casino. If any casino asks you for this kind of information, DON'T SUPPLY IT and send a written complaint to Neteller. Neteller will tell you that the casino has no right or reason to ask for this information and it goes directly against Neteller's charter. From their website "Because you only enter your payment details at our secure site, online merchants never have access to your credit card or bank details, so you can rest assured that no unauthorized transactions will occur and information about your identity remains protected."

 

[cynowoo]

Sorry for that,

I mean if there is any suspicious behavior with my account
the casino management would be hurry to raise instead of excuses of keeping me waiting

In other words , I think I am clear.
the Unique Mac Address, Unique IP address, Unique US goverment issued ID
Unique most secure Neteller Account Number

I cant see why they still put hold my account???

the only word of SUCKS can be delivered to them- BELLE ROCK GROUP.

Ok, I am usually really good at decyphering foreign accents, but I don't understand the above.

I was going to post but now I need to know what you mean by that before I do so.

 

[jpm]

THEY even tried to contact NETELER for my Social Securiy Number
Fortunately Neteller refused them and called me about this issue.

What?? That is really way out of line. Yet more information that they have no business even asking YOU for, let alone Neteller. I'm glad they refused and even moreso that they alerted you about it.

 

[cynowoo]

Thank you head up, dude also thumbs up to the neteller.

Neteller responsed them just let them directly called me.

They-Belle Rock already verified my phone and request my cell phone

the supervior calmed me with nice words at Oct 16 2004 : " our risk dep will call you to verify your personal indentification, then your account will be restored"

Unfortunately they never called me . from Oct 9 2004 - current 16:22PM Oct 20 2004 ,

NO call at all, my next TMOBILE statement could prove this.

What?? That is really way out of line. Yet more information that they have no business even asking YOU for, let alone Neteller. I'm glad they refused and even moreso that they alerted you about it.

 

[dominique]

I'd like to know why is bellerock asking for screenshots of your neteller account???? They have absolutely NO RIGHT to this information. Neteller has already certified you to use their service and that should be good enough for ANY casino. "[/I]

I strongly agree that this is way out of line.

They have NO business with your neteller account. Someone asked me for the same not too long ago and I refused flat out. Too much is too much.


Cynowoo, how long has this been going on? Bryan seems to say you are very impatient and this has only gone on for a few days.

 

[cynowoo]

Bryan is great

I just reported this matter to him 3 days ago.

But with BelleRock group, they have confirm that they received my files and started reviewing since Oct 9th 2004

Thank you for you heads up.

I strongly agree that this is way out of line.

They have NO business with your neteller account. Someone asked me for the same not too long ago and I refused flat out. Too much is too much.


Cynowoo, how long has this been going on? Bryan seems to say you are very impatient and this has only gone on for a few days.

 

[The Dude]

But with BelleRock group, they have confirm that they received my files and started reviewing since Oct 9th 2004

Perhaps it's taking a while because there is something odd about your account. Did this occur to you? Maybe you should have just kept your mouth shut until they finished their investigation. Or was this posting a way for you to damage their rep before the investigation was finished? I'd really like to know what your intent is.

Just curious.

 

[The Dude]

By the way, where do you live? Miami or Coral Gables?

Just wondering.

 

[bethug]

I will say this again, Bell rock group is one of the best, for them to want to check all that, it must be something up.

 

[Stanford]

Perhaps it's taking a while because there is something odd about your account. Did this occur to you? Maybe you should have just kept your mouth shut until they finished their investigation.

I have a hard time following this case. They started reviewing October 9th, I think. Is that right?

How long do they get?

BTW, the poster says he has a unique MAC address. Zone Alarm shields the MAC address and I think is the standard fire wall. I assume all firewalls do that. I hope this poster isn't surfing without a firewall. Presuming he has a firewall, how would MicroGaming Casinos have access to his MAC address?

I have heard one casino using SpyWare and it wasn't MicroGaming. I am somewhat curious about this MAC address business. I urge everyone to be running software to shut down spyware.

imho,
Stanford

 

[trick]

IMO they still need to inform better than this. Why the endless 24 hours answer if it is not possible for them to complete the verification in 24 hours?? Be honest and tell the customer that he will have to wait a few weeks for confirmation if this is the real timeframe they are working with. The 24hours answer just sounds like they cant be bothered to look at the documents because it's almost lunchtime or they are busy playing Tetris or something like that.

 

[dominique]

When Bryan smells a rat there is usually a rat.

I still think Neteller accounts are off limits.

 

[Stanford]

When Bryan smells a rat there is usually a rat.

I still think Neteller accounts are off limits.

I didn't think he smelled a rat but was rather put off by the hyperbole.

I agree that your Neteller issue is a good one. I hope it gets addressed.

imho,
Stanford

Edited comment - Dom, Now that you mention it, I notice Meisters Coral Gables vs Miami question.

I did a quick Yahoo map and they are 6 miles apart - that is Downtown to Downtown. Coral Gables is home to University of Miami, so maybe our poster is a student. But not sure what the significance of this is.

Stanford

 

[The Dude]

I did a quick Yahoo map and they are 6 miles apart - that is Downtown to Downtown. Coral Gables is home to University of Miami, so maybe our poster is a student. But not sure what the significance of this is

This may be very significant since they player has sent me a copy of these documents, and I'm noticing a few things. This is one of the reasons the casino asked for a resubmital of these items. Again I have no idea why this player freaked so early.

But then maybe I do. And some of us should try not to jump to conclusions until some of these things are cleared up.

 

[The Dude]

Oh by the way cynowoo, how's yer Neteller account looking? Are you able to log in anymore? If not, perhaps Neteller found a few anomalies in your docs as well.

Care to give the members here a rundown on exactly what's up??

 

[Stanford]

This may be very significant since they player has sent me a copy of these documents, and I'm noticing a few things. This is one of the reasons the casino asked for a resubmital of these items. Again I have no idea why this player freaked so early.

But then maybe I do. And some of us should try not to jump to conclusions until some of these things are cleared up.

Fair enough, but do you have any idea why he is talking about a MAC address? Are casinos tracking the MAC address? And how would they get them?

Any thoughts on the Neteller issue Dom raised?

For those that don't know the MAC address is a unique identifier for communication devices (like modems and network cards) within one's Network. Unlike the IP address, they are not needed by websites.

Stanford

 

[Macgyver]

Changed my mind; this wasn't worth me posting since it's not that big of a detail to have post-worthy relevance ....

Ignore me.

 

[GrandMaster]

I have a hard time following this case. They started reviewing October 9th, I think. Is that right?

How long do they get?

BTW, the poster says he has a unique MAC address. Zone Alarm shields the MAC address and I think is the standard fire wall. I assume all firewalls do that. I hope this poster isn't surfing without a firewall. Presuming he has a firewall, how would MicroGaming Casinos have access to his MAC address?

I have heard one casino using SpyWare and it wasn't MicroGaming. I am somewhat curious about this MAC address business. I urge everyone to be running software to shut down spyware.

imho,
Stanford

Any piece of software running on your computer, e.g. a download casino, can read your MAC address regardless whether you have a firewall or anti-spyware software. I don't know about flash or Java casinos.

 

[The Dude]

Looks like we have another fraudster yanking our chains. Both Bellerock and Neteller have determined (and me as well) that the documents sent in were Photoshoped.

Casinos do not normally request a Neteller screenshot of an account history unless a player claims that a transaction was/wasn't made. This should not be a problem between a player and casino. But this doesn't apply to this case. Further, there doesn't seem to be a record of this but I could be wrong.

I spoke with Neteller this evening, and they do not provide priviliged information on their clients. For anyone to claim that they are, think again.

This is another example why many of us should not quickly jump to conclusions. Cynowoo, expect to be invoiced for the time and effort I spent dealing with this bullshit. And on holidays (like my birthday) I charge double. Question is, should I send this to the address on your Bank Statement? Or will that bounce?

PS: I know lawyers...

 

[Stanford]

Looks like we have another fraudster yanking our chains. Both Bellerock and Neteller have determined (and me as well) that the documents sent in were Photoshoped.

Casinos do not normally request a Neteller screenshot of an account history unless a player claims that a transaction was/wasn't made. This should not be a problem between a player and casino. But this doesn't apply to this case. Further, there doesn't seem to be a record of this but I could be wrong.

I spoke with Neteller this evening, and they do not provide priviliged information on their clients. For anyone to claim that they are, think again.

Sorry for the waste of your time by a fraudster.

I am still unclear what happened here. Why is neteller looking at a players documents submitted to the casino? Did the player make up a fictional ID and opened a Neteller account and then a fictional Casino account backed up by fake documents?

How would he fund such an account? I thought the Bank account and the Neteller account had to have the same person.

I am not sure what you are saying on the Neteller screenshot other than you are not sure it happened in this case.

I can't think of a reason of ever submitting a screen shot. Even if the casino misapplied the Neteller payment, a screen shot should not be necessary to prove the deposit was made. Neteller should simply supply the transaction detail.

Good work on exposing the fraud.

Stanford

 

[The Dude]

Neteller had conducted their own investigation separate from the casino, and it seems that there were red flags that went up when this player first opened his account a couple of months ago. As far as I know, the casino had detected fraud and contacted Neteller, which conducted their own investigation and came to the same conclusion.

I was able do make determinations on my own with the docs the player supplied me before Bellerock responded. Google searches can do wonders

What I am saying about the Neteller screenshot is that I'm not sure that the casino requested this. This could have been a ruse from the player to trash this casino in public. I asked earlier what this player's intent was. It is obvious to me that this player was going down, he knew it, and he tried to smear the casino as much as possible before going down. The casino requested the documents, and upon receipt they noticed some curious things. They made another request since there could have been a problem with the transmission quality. But with the second set, other things were discovered (I'm being vague purposely). At this time this went to another level of evaluation. This is where the player panicked (IMO).

I can't think of a reason of ever submitting a screen shot. Even if the casino misapplied the Neteller payment, a screen shot should not be necessary to prove the deposit was made. Neteller should simply supply the transaction detail.

I can't think of one either. If a player claims that the cashin was never made, then it would be a simple phone call to Neteller. I take a lot of these player claims with a grain of salt. Perhaps a casino would request this sort of thing to bypass contacting Neteller, but I don't see why.

If I had made a cashin at a casino, and it never came through but the casino claimed it did, I would volunteer a screen shot to proove it didn't come in. It really wouldn't make a difference to me since I wouldn't be revealing anything that would be secretive. If it did bother me, I'd pick up the phone and call NT.

But this is beside the point. Apparently this player has been less than truthful with this whole situation.

 

[Stanford]

Neteller had conducted their own investigation separate from the casino, and it seems that there were red flags that went up when this player first opened his account a couple of months ago...

Apparently this player has been less than truthful with this whole situation.

Well done CasinoMeister. I appreciate your response that helps educate us all. I was somewhat concerned about my asking you details about a case when you already had wasted time.

I really do appreciate the very thoughtful response.

Stanford

 

[bethug]

casinos like bellrock, inetbet, bodog and a few others are solid. When someone says they slow paying it hard for me to believe. They pay me with out questions and i know they pay others without question. If you try to cheat and get caught dont run here cause casinomeister will bust you out

 

[jpm]

What I am saying about the Neteller screenshot is that I'm not sure that the casino requested this. This could have been a ruse from the player to trash this casino in public. I asked earlier what this player's intent was.

Well I've had a large casino group request this of me before, even though I was a longtime member of their casino, so its definitely not unprecedented. But I refused them and filed a formal complaint with Neteller. The cashin was later processed without them getting the screenshot.

 

[jpm]

Fair enough, but do you have any idea why he is talking about a MAC address? Are casinos tracking the MAC address? And how would they get them?

Any thoughts on the Neteller issue Dom raised?

For those that don't know the MAC address is a unique identifier for communication devices (like modems and network cards) within one's Network. Unlike the IP address, they are not needed by websites.

Stanford

Even if you use a hard firewall, it will still have a MAC address that is visible to anyplace on the internet that you visit. And as GM said, casino programs running on your computer can and most likely do report back your machine's MAC address (and private IP address too in many cases).

 

[Stanford]

Even if you use a hard firewall, it will still have a MAC address that is visible to anyplace on the internet that you visit. And as GM said, casino programs running on your computer can and most likely do report back your machine's MAC address (and private IP address too in many cases).

Hi JPM,

While I think that IP address is normal, there is no reason to have my MAC address - although I understand some Spyware makes use of it.

Go here and you can run a test as to what can be seen. I run the MAC test and it says mine cannot be seen.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I will be curious as to any comments you or others have on this.

Grandmaster observes that the software itself may be reading personal data and sending it back to the casinos. Now this is a distressing thought. Maybe those casinos that monitor this site will have some comment or other players.

Stanford

 

[The Dude]

Cynowoo has failed to comment on this thread since yesterday, even though he is aware of its content.

Player banned for life unless he can convince me to do otherwise.

 

[bellerock]

Hi All,

Just a quick note to thank Bryan for dealing with this issue so quickly and fairly, and for giving us a chance to make our case before trashing us.

The lack of response was due to making sure that our facts were straight, and obviously to avoid revealing any confidential player information.

Thank you for your support everybody.

Best regards,

Belle Rock

 

[jpm]

Hi JPM,
While I think that IP address is normal, there is no reason to have my MAC address - although I understand some Spyware makes use of it.
Stanford

I don't think spyware actually bothers with your MAC address, but casinos would have a good reason for recording this info. Since it is a 'unique' number, it can be a sort of fingerprint. Since most casino software runs on your computer directly and not thru a browser, it can access the machine's MAC address directly and report it back to the casino. One that I believe does this and shows you on the screen what its reporting is Intercasino's poker program. The could also see your computer name and other such info, and more if they wanted to, like cpu type & speed, ram, HD size, etc. etc. Basically you have to be trusting that they are not peeking into more info than they need to know.

 

[dominique]

Well I've had a large casino group request this of me before, even though I was a longtime member of their casino, so its definitely not unprecedented. But I refused them and filed a formal complaint with Neteller. The cashin was later processed without them getting the screenshot.

Me too. This did happen to me also - it was a large casino group and I was a member for around 3 years but hadn't played in a long time.

I also refused, but filed no complaint and was eventually paid when they were sure who I was.

I would very much mind showing anyone a screenshot of my neteller. I will not do it or allow it to be done. If someone wants neteller to tell them if a certain deposit was made - I have no problem with that.

Kudos for exposing this guy, Bryan. Good work.

I am just afraid that people who play this game with casinos less reputable than Bellerock may undergo less scrutiny and get away with it.

Too bad there are dishonest parties in all casino related groups ( i.e. casinos, affiliates, affiliate programs, players.) I guess that will never change.

 

[jpm]

The reason I filed the formal complaint was because they were refusing to process my withdrawl until I gave them a screenshot showing the source of my Neteller deposits. Clearly not their business. When I asked, what if I used a bank account to deposit, they then said they'd want to see those statements too. And they already knew who I was and had payed cashins of that size (like $100) several times in the past. It was clearly security run wild, but the absolute refusal to give me my money without that information was what pushed me over the edge.

 

[dominique]

That is too bad and I really am against that practise.

With me they gave in when they realized I was dominique from gamesandcasino. They were not aware of that, and I usually don't tell them because if I did my testing a casino would be worthless.

I really have no idea why they did that to me - I was playing all kinds of games for a long time and made a couple of deposits and finally hit a royal.

I hate this whole security thing - but, this thread bears witness that it is needed.