bellerock being akward over ID - locked accs and no payouts.

[Vesuvio]

Marcholmes why where you not upfront at the beginning that you were playing on a shared machine and that other people at your work had all decided to sign up at BR at around about the same time? You surely must have realised that this was a possible reason for the casinos suspicion. You only mention the fact when faced up with the issue of the same computer.

I completely disagree on that. It's not up to the player to come up with every possible reason he can think of why the casino might not want to pay him. I can see that would appeal to the casinos, but the only due process here is for the casino to give a basis for their decision (no need for too many details), at which point the player can defend himself (or not, as the case may be).

Lol, Slotster! I don't think I'd seen your avatar before posting

 

[bb1webs]

to Brian,

ya if it was x100 that would definitely be different. I was speaking in respect to just Marc's situation since he seems to be the only one pursuing things which lends credibility to his deserving benefit of doubt.

however that said; I'm not sure I understood this statement

There was a £200 bonus in one acc that had not been played on, deposit is one of the two that I've been refunded so I've dropped that acc from the complaint

one acct that had not been played on? are you talking about having an account at say gamingclub and then one at riverbelle or two accounts at same casino?

in respect to the using a shared PC. My understanding (and this just from what I've read here, not anything said to me by BR) is that you don't want to be using a shared PC when you sign up. I assume (and I think correctly since I've done it before many times) that it is not an issue when logging into your account from a public or shared PC ... if you already have that account and that it was created from a PC that is not shared.

In any case, this is the first I've heard of this though it makes sense that there might be issues to arise from it. But if that's the case then this should be made to understood at the beginning of the sign up process to ensure these sort of things don't happen (at least not very often).

If marc simply played without using a bonus (I do this all of the time) he wouldn't have the problems he's having now. And neither would a lot of you.

Isn't that so on the mark!

Its being made quite obvious that the casinos are finding bonus chasers in unfavorable light and therefore if that's your gig then ... though its not fair ... life in general isn't fair and you adjust accordingly the best you can ... well you're gonna have to do the same in respect to the casinos.

and since they seemingly are willing to change the rules on you mid-stream ... then perhaps its time you found greener pastures.

meaning that if you can't get around ending up on the short end then logic demands that if you don't want to continue to get the short stick ... you're gonna have to change what you're doing now to end up that way all the time.

Don't shoot the messenger please.

and as for if there were no bonuses ... saying CM wouldn't exist; or even a small guy like me is far off the mark.

I remember when I got into this business I was told I'd make the majority of my living off a handful of high rollers. That was essentially correct at least in my case.

to further this point is the fact that i have just a few days ago started pulling bonus offers and I have put up a statement saying

Also please note that I am beginning the process of discontinuing the posting of bonus offers because I feel the bonus thing has become so full of rules and rigid requirements that it is a detriment to the player and therefore I'm not going to add to the problem by coaxing you to try a casino due to its bonus offer. I also am advising to be sure before you play, .. to contact support and tell them under no circumstances do you want your money tied up in any kind of bonus requirements/play-thru requirements. If you would like to know more on this matter please click here.

please don't get mad at me for saying this but I think some need to re-think their approach to gambling. It seems to me that the "rush" for many nowadays is not gambling to beat the odds, but rather gambling to see if they can beat the odds incurred when taking a bonus offer (which I would guess are much more against you).

if you just try getting back to the basics and concentrate on beating the dealer's hand instead of the casinos play-thru requirements I think you'd find that in the long run you win just as much when you don't have follow another person's rules on what you can play and how long you have to play it ... as you do otherwise because all I can think of are the times i had a nice win early on ... and because I'd taken a bonus and am no math genius ... I would just figure i need to play a little more before thinking about cashing out and before i knew it I'd lost back my gain. Agreed I should have contacted CS and asked about whether I met the requirements yet (insert roll your eyes here) but that is when gambling stops being entertainment to me is when i got to start playing the "details" game. I got better things to do than run to CS every 15 min to ask if I have met their stupid requirements yet or not. And there are many more out there with exactly the same attitude.

ps.

I also think it has become an obsession to some of the casinos that they can't get past the fact that the bonus chasers may get over on them at times. Grow up guys and go back to the books and look at the big picture.

The same reason I am willing to absorb a loss to keep a player happy is the same reason you should be willing to absorb it when a chaser gets over on you. You're still making money and you were the ones that made the rules.

 

[mitch]

So Vesuvio what do you think?

1. That it was a group with a common purpose right from the start and that Marcholmes chose not to mention this either to the casino and to the Meister and this forum from whom he was seeking help?

Or

2. It was the fantastic coincidence I mentioned in my previous post? (if it's that one I suggest Marcholmes buys lottery tickets in future it will probably be more profitable).

You definately seem to be discounting the fact he might be telling porkies here.

Mitch

 

[furby]

Next thing, Furby is going to post that he's playing from a shared environment as well

Furby - where you at??

Right here. What is it, Furby baiting time now? You sound like a very righteous person gleefully baiting someone he knows to be in the wrong. I've already said in a previous post, if I go quiet it's not an admission of guilt, just recognition that I'll get no help here.

So after a whole month I am finally informed (not by Belle Rock) that it's a shared computer issue. I don't use a shared computer at work. I didn't play gaming club from work. I didn't play gaming club japan. There is no gang that opened a load of accounts at the same time from my computer. Just me opening one account.

I suppose you have seen "damning evidence" from the omnipotent ProCyber risk sentinal whatever. Well I haven't. And are you in a position to judge whether it's reliable? This is the level of your technical expertise:

Question for wideboy, Chivers, and josegarcia. Are you aware you are posting/registering from the same server? It points to Oxford.

I'm just wondering if you know each other

Yeah great, it was subsequently shown that users as far afield as Sheffield could be coming through the same Oxford server. But hey, if the men in white coats from Belle Rock say something's fishy, and they know about computers, who are we to doubt it? At the same time as making my withdrawal from Gaming Club I made a withdrawal from River Belle for 288, which went through. Their security checks are as reliable as they are consistent.

And what's this "Computer ids" phrase care to define it? Similar isp, same startup website in the browser, what? It's meaningless until it's defined.

And what was this about?

Furby, if possible - you need to send in docs certified by a notary.

I can't imagine why you'd want to send me off to a notary when you know there's no chance of me getting paid anyway.

If marc simply played without using a bonus (I do this all of the time) he wouldn't have the problems he's having now. And neither would a lot of you.

And you called me asenine? Why would anyone play at an online casino without a bonus? Online casinos make huge profits. Think about it.

Anyway, Belle Rock owe me 498. They're not paying, and you ain't helping. If I go quiet again, it's simply because it's not worth my while carrying on with this BS.

 

[Vesuvio]

So Vesuvio what do you think?

1. That it was a group with a common purpose right from the start and that Marcholmes chose not to mention this either to the casino and to the Meister and this forum from whom he was seeking help?

Or

2. It was the fantastic coincidence I mentioned in my previous post? (if it's that one I suggest Marcholmes buys lottery tickets in future it will probably be more profitable).

You definately seem to be discounting the fact he might be telling porkies here.

You're ignoring my point, Mitch - which was about whether players, when not accused of anything, should be expected to look for any possible "discrepancy" they can think of and provide it to the casino/post it on-line. What do you think?

If you read my post again you'll see I'm not discounting the possibility of fraud, but as someone caught in the same trap and who exhausted all avenues except Casinomeister to get my money back, I hope you'll forgive me if I don't jump to assume guilt. I know that your coincidence about players suddenly having the same purpose (to win) and depositing the same amount (that needed to get a bonus) applies to any number of advantage players. I've no idea why people would play the same way at the same office - perhaps they talk to each other?

 

[Vesuvio]

if you just try getting back to the basics and concentrate on beating the dealer's hand instead of the casinos play-thru requirements I think you'd find that in the long run you win just as much when you don't have follow another person's rules on what you can play and how long you have to play it...

Well, that is the way to win, but only if you're an affiliate taking a cut of the losses

I also think it has become an obsession to some of the casinos that they can't get past the fact that the bonus chasers may get over on them at times. Grow up guys and go back to the books and look at the big picture.

That I agree with, though.

 

[Linus]

I don't think you are getting the point.

Of course you are going to get paid in a Las Vegas Casino. That is because the casino is Regulated and Licenced and could be penalised or closed down if it breaches its licencing conditions.

That's my point.

What has that got to do with the arguement here where we are talking about unregulated, unlicenced internet casinos?

My point is that we're talking about unregulated, unlicensed casinos. Nobody can close them down, and they're effectively beyond the reach of the law.

Judges in the UK are paid by the Crown, the very body that is the Prosecuter in the vast majority of cases so it is a close analogy for the situation with eCOGRA and Bryan.

It's not close at all.

In criminal cases, it is true that both prosecutors' and judges' salaries are paid for by the tax payers - but neither one works for the other. Prosecutors do not pay judges, and they have no power over a judge's salary.

In a civil case, a judge who took money from a litigant would risk prosecution himself.

My point is that while Bryan has done a great job with CasinoMeister, and he is - in my opinion - the very best and last hope for anyone with a problem with a casino - he is not a judge, a juror, or a prosecutor.

He's also not a licensor, or a regulator.

He's a businessman, with a business to run. He's helped a lot of players out, and I respect that.

As far as eCogra... for them I have less respect, mainly because I suspect them of pretending to be something they're not.

I have already covered the situation of casinos 'fining' or confiscating funds, their T&Cs give them the right to do so and customers are agreeing with this condition when they sign up, nobody forces them to sign. I dont recall any T&Cs mentioning judges and juries!

Here's the thing about T&C's - many of them, IMO, would not hold up in court. A "contract" that says, in essence, "we can do whatever we want," is not really a contract. It's just a cover, a way to justify whatever they decide to do later on. Either way, it's immaterial, since there's no court you can take them to, anyway. In other words, since they can do whatever they want, whether their T&C's say that or not, it doesn't really matter.

Bottom line: you need to judge a casino by what it does, not by what it says.

Customers hit by a 'catch all' T&C could take a civil action on the grounds the conditon is unreasonable. Which court and jurisdiction are you going to lay a complaint at though?

My point is that eCOGRA, Montana and especially Bryan are as good as your going to get at the moment.

I agree with that.

If you are not happy with this and do not want to take any risks with your money then you should definately not play at Internet casinos or home games or barroom games or any other form of unregulated gambling.

Mitch

If what you're saying is that I should take exactly the risks I think I should take, with my own money, I agree with you 100%.

If you're saying I should "love it or lump it," I disagree.

 

[The Dude]

What is it, Furby baiting time now? You sound like a very righteous person gleefully baiting someone he knows to be in the wrong. I've already said in a previous post, if I go quiet it's not an admission of guilt, just recognition that I'll get no help here.

I'm not baiting you - I want to know what the story is. If I am spending my time on this, I have every right to know.

So after a whole month I am finally informed (not by Belle Rock) that it's a shared computer issue. I don't use a shared computer at work. I didn't play gaming club from work. I didn't play gaming club japan. There is no gang that opened a load of accounts at the same time from my computer. Just me opening one account.

I feel you are not being truthful here.

I suppose you have seen "damning evidence" from the omnipotent ProCyber risk sentinal whatever. Well I haven't. And are you in a position to judge whether it's reliable? This is the level of your technical expertise:

Yes, I am in that position - and my level of technical expertise goes way beyond the statement I made. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to this stuff.

And what's this "Computer ids" phrase care to define it? Similar isp, same startup website in the browser, what? It's meaningless until it's defined.

You mean it's meaningless to fraudsters until it's defined - but for people behind the scenes it's crucial.

And you called me asenine? Why would anyone play at an online casino without a bonus? Online casinos make huge profits. Think about it.

I didn't say you were asinine - I said not to act that way. There's a big difference.

And as profits are concerned - think about how much is invested into fraud detection, and how many players out there are willing to commit such fraud. It's a ongoing and costly battle. It also causes hassles for legit players who sometimes get caught up in this. Ask Vesuvio.

Anyway, Belle Rock owe me 498. They're not paying, and you ain't helping. If I go quiet again, it's simply because it's not worth my while carrying on with this BS.

These are the casinos I have records on:

Lucky Nugget
Riverbelle
Gaming Club
Jackpot City German

I never mentioned GC Japan - you're confused with the other cases. I tried to help, but it's pretty much clear that you and several others are using the same machine. All I want to know from you is "why" and "how". MarcHolmes came clean. Why can't you?

If there are no others using your computer, then I am tending to believe you are creating these accounts.

 

[The Dude]

By the way, Marcholmes never PMd me on where he works. Perhaps he's at work now and can't get to the computer

 

[marcholmes]

By the way, Marcholmes never PMd me on where he works. Perhaps he's at work now and can't get to the computer

Or maybe I had logged off and gone to bed before seeing your request (and now a PM) asking me to give you those details before I go????
In any case, I do not want to give you my place of work, what purpose is that going to serve? The decision appears to be made that I am fooked anyway cos of this shared PC lark.

Mitch, you have no idea how much info I have tried to give BR, I have sent them in excess of 50/60 PM's & emails, generally getting no response to the vast majority of them.
I've already gone over the fact why I never mentioned a shared PC as a possibility - I HAD NO IDEA IT WAS AN ISSUE. Go read the first post again, it was all related to ID's etc, call me green, call me what you want, I had no idea until I was told. As I had already said, if BR had of said this to me from the outset then I could see it would've been a possibility and we would not have had to go this far.

 

[The Dude]

...In any case, I do not want to give you my place of work, what purpose is that going to serve?...

Because then I can clear up this whole mess. I thought you wanted to get paid?

 

[jpsartre]

You've already let Bryan look at your personal identification. What difference does it make if you tell him where you work?

 

[GOCC]

Well Ive sat back and watched this and it seems that whatever marcholmes does is irrelevant as he is not going to get paid. OK, so he tell CM where he works, what then, he phones up and speaks to HR and asks for a print off of everyone who works there. Then runs all the names past proc cyber and see if any of them match.

I remember once receiving an email telling me my accont at Jackpot Factory had been linked to THREE different people, but the crucial part here is IT TOLD ME WHO THEY WERE. I had no Idea who any of them were and sent in ID and told them just that that I had no Idea.

Surely it would be easier to tell marcholmes, by PM, who these people are. Maybe he does know them innocently. Maybe one of them knows the others and that could be a link.

Personally to ask marcholmes where he works is BS. What relevance is it and what purpose would it serve. If he said he worked in a call centre then what, you know he works in a call centre. What could that information be used for ethically? It couldnt in my opinion

Like I said, IMHO whatever marcholmes does he aint gonna get paid, end of. Id like to know why vesuvio was classed as being in the wrong place at the wrong time and why none of the others were.

 

[soflat]

I don't have much sympathy if they are fraudsters.

But there is no way I would supply certified documents, tell a casino where I work, etc. (I'm pretty sure they could figure out where I work just from their logs if they wanted to know)

Anyways, I would have to just drop it right there. Then of course I would be labeled a fraudster because I didn't divulge my private life to an unregulated casino.

 

[GOCC]

Anyways, I would have to just drop it right there. Then of course I would be labeled a fraudster because I didn't divulge my private life to an unregulated casino.

EXACTLY, its a heads I win, Tails you lose situation

Reminds me of the medievil days in England when they suspected a woman of being a witch. They had ducking stools which they would tie the withch to a dunk her into a river for about 20minutes. If she survived she was a witch and burnt (Which amazingly not many did) or if you died then you were innocent

 

[The Dude]

EXACTLY, its a heads I win, Tails you lose situation

Reminds me of the medievil days in England when they suspected a woman of being a witch. They had ducking stools which they would tie the withch to a dunk her into a river for about 20minutes. If she survived she was a witch and burnt (Which amazingly not many did) or if you died then you were innocent

Witches didn't have computer IDs

 

[Linus]

Because then I can clear up this whole mess. I thought you wanted to get paid?

No way I'd feel comfortable giving an unlicensed, unregulated, offshore gambling operation information about where I work.

If the issue is same computer IP, I don't understand why they couldn't have said that in the beginning.

I'm also disappointed with their T&Cs -

Gaming Club T&Cs
We may impose any limits or conditions that we, in our sole discretion, deem fit on any persons who open or attempt to open Accounts at the Casino where such Accounts originate from environments where computers are, or the environment is shared.

If they don't want same-IP customers, they need to just say so. This kind of "maybe we'll pay you, maybe we won't" language looks like a classic attempt to freeroll customers, to me.

In fact, if they take same-IP as a sign of cheating, they should prevent same-IP customers from logging in or depositing in the first place. Poker sites - good ones, anyway - do not allow same-IP players to sit at the same tables. There's no reason casinos can't do the same.

 

[GrandMaster]

I remember once receiving an email telling me my accont at Jackpot Factory had been linked to THREE different people, but the crucial part here is IT TOLD ME WHO THEY WERE. I had no Idea who any of them were and sent in ID and told them just that that I had no Idea.

Surely it would be easier to tell marcholmes, by PM, who these people are. Maybe he does know them innocently. Maybe one of them knows the others and that could be a link.

Giving out information about other players is not cool.

If they don't want same-IP customers, they need to just say so. This kind of "maybe we'll pay you, maybe we won't" language looks like a classic attempt to freeroll customers, to me.

In fact, if they take same-IP as a sign of cheating, they should prevent same-IP customers from logging in or depositing in the first place. Poker sites - good ones, anyway - do not allow same-IP players to sit at the same tables. There's no reason casinos can't do the same.

IP addresses do not identify computers uniquely. Most people have dynamic IP addresses, which means they get a new IP address every time they connect, and several computers can have the same IP address if the connection goes through a proxy or they behind a NAT router. I believe AOL also does something weird giving allocating the same IP address to different people. It makes good sense not to allow two people from the same IP address to play poker at the same table, but if player A plays at a casino from the same IP address that player B used a month earlier, that in itself is not an indication of cheating. Now if every time a casino has a promotion player A plays it, then 10 minutes later player B, another 10 minutes later player C, all from the same IP address, that's much harder to explain away, especially if there is some other information linking these people.

 

[TaggedYa]

IP addresses do not identify computers uniquely. Most people have dynamic IP addresses, which means they get a new IP address every time they connect, and several computers can have the same IP address if the connection goes through a proxy or they behind a NAT router. I believe AOL also does something weird giving allocating the same IP address to different people. It makes good sense not to allow two people from the same IP address to play poker at the same table, but if player A plays at a casino from the same IP address that player B used a month earlier, that in itself is not an indication of cheating. Now if every time a casino has a promotion player A plays it, then 10 minutes later player B, another 10 minutes later player C, all from the same IP address, that's much harder to explain away, especially if there is some other information linking these people.

There are various ways to identify the actual hardware that is used to connect from. When CM mentions a computer ID he is not referring to an IP address. I can not speak to the method that is in use here but there could be a multitude of specific ways of doing it and several are known to be VERY accurate. They are probably reluctant to discuss it as someone with a little skill, and knowledge of how they are doing it, can easily spoof the ID.

Gaming Club T&Cs
We may impose any limits or conditions that we, in our sole discretion, deem fit on any persons who open or attempt to open Accounts at the Casino where such Accounts originate from environments where computers are, or the environment is shared.

This does not say you cant use a work computer it just says that they have the right to impose additional conditions on people who do so. It in no way implies the right to ex-post-facto revocation of winnings.

Gaming Club T&Cs
If you open multiple accounts you will not be eligible for the Sign-Up Bonus on each account. The Sign-Up Bonus is only available once per Player and/or per environment where computers are shared and/or per e-mail address.

Casinomeister:
That's the problem. Did you read the terms and conditions carefully before you deposited? You are in a shared environment which negates your claim for winnings stemming from a bonus.

CMs statement here is contrary to the plain language of the quoted terms. The player may have no way of knowing if he is the first to sign up from a particular shared environment or not. The first to do so is clearly entitled to the bonus. The casino is able to determine if a particular player is first from a given environment and can deny the bonus if he isnt.

Apparently, in this case, the casino did not choose to impose any additional limits or conditions as they reserved the right to do in the first quoted paragraph. They also did not choose to deny the bonus as they could have under the second quoted paragraph. Instead they allowed the player to sign up. They gave the bonus. They had the unique knowledge necessary to decide whether the new account was within the parameters that they were willing to accept and failed to use that knowledge. It is unreasonable that such a failure should be rewarded by countenancing a freeroll against the new player who may very well have no possible knowledge of previous accounts from the same machine. Conversely, marcholms may very well have been the first to sign up from that computer and thus may very well be 100% within the terms as written.

If, and that is a big if, multiple accounts playing from the same computer at about the same time on the same games is the extent of the suspect play then it is my opinion that anyone who can reasonably show themselves to be a unique individual should be paid. Any account that is registered to a shown fictitious person should not get back anything. Any account that is in limbo between these two points should stay closed while reasonable efforts are made to verify the identities in question.

Asking for notarized phone bills is not a reasonable effort. With the level of information collected at signup I should be able to prove or disprove the identity of anyone in the Western World in 30 min to an hour with the expenditure of $10 or less for info search and phone charges.

All of the aforementioned not withstanding, I have little doubt that some people here were lawn Gnomeing and got caught at it. The only problem is which ones.

If, however, the individuals whos identity can be faithfully ascertained are paid all, and the fictitious ones got back nothing then the casino should breakeven or come out ahead and no innocent will get more than inconvenienced.

TaggedYa

 

[jpsartre]

@ soflat

But there is no way I would supply certified documents, tell a casino where I work, etc. (I'm pretty sure they could figure out where I work just from their logs if they wanted to know)

Good for you but the player in question already supplied certified documents. And that's in addition to sending more than 50 PM's and emails to Belle Rock (according to himself). If I had jumped through so many hoops, letting Bryan know my place of work would be the least of my concerns.

@ GOCC

OK, so he tell CM where he works, what then, he phones up and speaks to HR and asks for a print off of everyone who works there. Then runs all the names past proc cyber and see if any of them match.

In most cases you can find out who works a certain place without using a phone, but even so, what would be wrong with the above if it would help clear the name of the accused player?

Personally to ask marcholmes where he works is BS. What relevance is it and what purpose would it serve.

Perhaps to find out of the players connected with marcholmes account work at the same place?


@ Linus

No way I'd feel comfortable giving an unlicensed, unregulated, offshore gambling operation information about where I work.

But you'd give them your personal details, including home-address and phone-number and your creditcard-details? Doesn't make sense to me....

 

[GOCC]

Tagged Ya

Thats a very indepth post from someone who has only just joined

jpsarte
Are you HONESTLY saying that you would not mind an online casino phoning your workplace and identifying themselves as an online casino and telling them they COULD have 4,5,6 online casino gamblers working for them. Unfortunately, away from forums like this, there is a bad stigma attached to gambling but to admit basically to being sat at home at your computer playing all day is not going to do your carear prospects very good or those of the attached players.

Here is a email I received from All Slots

Dear GOCC

Thank you for using All Slots Casino's chosen processor's services. We hope that you have found our processor's facilities convenient and easy to use.


At All Slots, we pride ourselves on the security we provide to our players and their funds. In order to assure this security, we take great care in ensuring that funds are processed correctly and in line with banking regulations.

When we performed a routine security check, we noticed that your account is linked to other customers' accounts - either by email address, physical address or telephone number. In such cases, fraud control rules require us to confirm the account details and investigate the reason for the linked details.

We would appreciate it if you would forward us the following information as soon as possible. If you are aware that you have used someone else's details, e.g. address, telephone number, please explain your relationship to (David Kay, Martin Kay & Danielle Wardle) the person whose details you used.

Full Name
Residential Details
Telephone Number
Copy of a recent utility/telephone bill (as proof of residency), not older than 3 months
Copy of your Drivers License

These details may be faxed to us at one of our toll free numbers listed below or scanned and e-mailed to us at [email protected].


Please don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions or concerns


Our Support Staff is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week by e-mail at
[email protected], or on the following toll-free numbers:

USA: 1-866 251 2236
UK: 0-800 917 4615
Canada: 1-888 328 3614

We look forward to hearing back from you with regard to the above requirements.

Thank you,

John Williamson
Financial Director
All Slots Casino
A Jackpot Factory Casino


The above is exactly how it came.

 

[marcholmes]

Well we appear to be stuck.

CM is not getting my work address from me.
I do not wish to divulge to anyone where I work or what I do.
My job is my living and there is no way on this earth I want anyone to know where I work or what I do - I'm not going risk my work becoming involved.

According to CM and the emails we've exchanged, that's it now, I'm labelled a fraudster and he wants to stop because I won't tell him this bit of info. It appears no one can understand a man wants to keep something like this private?

It's absolutely ridiculous, I have given them everything they've asked for but as soon as I don't (for very good reasons) that's it. Lets not forget it's taken me 7 weeks to get this far.

GOCC is spot on, it appears other casino groups will openly tell you who you are linked to, this gives you ample opportunity to tell them what you know - I am not being given this opportunity despite me requesting these names on a couple of occasions.

As for CM asking 'what's up. don't you want to get paid' (or however it was phrased). Lets not forget, by using a shared computer I have violated the t+c's, something I have openly admitted since CM pointed this out to me. Therefore I do not expect my winnings but I do expect BR to give me those deposits back. I would also like to see BR stop people signing up in the first place. CM said I wouldn't be in this situation if I had not of claimed a bonus - I tell you I wouldn't be in this situation if I had of lost my deposits in the casino. They'll let you sign up from anywhere, as long as you lose it's not an issue, win some money from them and they get upset over such a trivial issue.

 

[The Dude]

MarcHolmes deserves his deposit back; I thought he had received it already.

I am an individual who offered my arbitration services to him - if he doesn't want to give me the address to where this computer is located, fine that's his prerogative.

I'm sure he is an experienced player - to claim that he opened these accounts at work on a computer is suspect. Maybe a newbie would do this, but for someone who seems to know what he is doing doesn't ring true to me.

And why would he withhold this information until I mentioned that he had multiple accounts? That can only be speculated on.

All of the evidence that the casino has presented to me points to multiple accounts.

It's quite simple, bellerock just do not want to pay - I have complied with every T+C so far.

You thought that you had complied with the T&Cs until I pointed out the multiple accounts - and then you state you are in a shared environment.

My job is my living and there is no way on this earth I want anyone to know where I work or what I do - I'm not going risk my work becoming involved.

Then don't open casino accounts on your employer's computer. This is what doesn't jive. So you expect everyone to believe that you have 7 casino accounts on this computer - it sits in some common area (which you have yet to describe). And some other employees sat down at this computer and so just happened not to see these accounts (shortcuts, folders, whatever)?? Is this what you are asking us to believe?

And then these employees opened accounts at the same casinos?

At least you can tell us how many people have access to this computer so maybe we can figure what the odds are of this happening.

 

[marcholmes]

CM,

Approx. 400 people have access to these computers if they want.

My workplace, what I do and the set up of the place is remaining with me as a matter of privacy. It's funny that when I ask for a list of names that are linked to me on this multiple account matter BR won't give me the names and hide behind some 'privacy' clause yet when I do the same I get a finger pointed at me, or more to the point shoved up my arse.
From that email GOCC has posted, jackpot factory give you the names of the linked accs so you have a chance to explain yourself and any possible line, if BR do this to me, I may be able to shed some light on some of the names? But I can't help at the moment as it's all what they THINK has happened that matters to them.

For the third time CM, it wasn't a multiple account revelation that led me to tell you I had opened accs on a shared PC, it was the fact that was the FIRST TIME I HAD BEEN TOLD it was a PC ID issue, how many times do I have to say that bit?

Within reason we can do what we want on these shared PC's, it just so happens I don't want you or anyone contacting my place of work for reasons already stated.

 

[jpsartre]

Are you HONESTLY saying that you would not mind an online casino phoning your workplace and identifying themselves as an online casino and telling them they COULD have 4,5,6 online casino gamblers working for them.

Why do you think this is what will happen? Here's a much more likely scenario: Bryan gets the place of work, looks up their website and check the list of employees.

Here's what I don't understand: Marcholmes has spend 7 weeks trying to get paid. He's posted in the forums, he's written more than 50 emails and PM's, he's scanned and emailed passport and utility-bills, he's gone to a solicitor to have these documents verified, he's been in contact with this solicitor several times trying to arrange a phone-call from Belle Rock. But he won't give Bryan his place of work? I can see only one reason for this. That Marcholmes knows that Bryan will be able to check and verify relatively easily that the players in question all magically work at the same place.

In this case it seems to me pretty clear that what is going on is that a group of people working the same place decided to rip of a casino-bonus. Probably all accounts where opened and played by the same person. It's not rocket-science and it's not the first time I hear of people having silent-partners, so to speak, and playing with bonuses in these peoples names and then splitting the profit. Is it possible that a group of people working the same place all happened to open an account at the same casino and playing the same game on the same computer? Sure it's possible, but not bloody likely. It already seems to me strange that anyone would be opening accounts and playing casinos at work. Now, if this turns out to be a misunderstanding and if Marcholmes is eventually cleared of all charges I'll be the first the come in here and give him an unconditional apology. However, as far as I can see all the evidence points to the fact that the above is what happened.

 

[soflat]

So you expect everyone to believe that you have 7 casino accounts on this computer - it sits in some common area (which you have yet to describe). And some other employees sat down at this computer and so just happened not to see these accounts (shortcuts, folders, whatever)?? Is this what you are asking us to believe?

Maybe they DID see the shortcut and that is how there ended up being multiple accounts?

User 1 downloads software, registers, plays.

Later, User 2 sits down and sees an appealing icon to a casino. Curious, she clicks it and plays in Fun Mode. Casino sends her a bonus offer which she can't resist. She deposits and is trapped.

Repeat multiple times.

Belle Rock did not check for multiple accounts until players tried to withdraw.

 

[jpsartre]

Maybe they DID see the shortcut and that is how there ended up being multiple accounts?

User 1 downloads software, registers, plays.

Later, User 2 sits down and sees an appealing icon to a casino. Curious, she clicks it and plays in Fun Mode. Casino sends her a bonus offer which she can't resist. She deposits and is trapped.

Repeat multiple times.

Belle Rock did not check for multiple accounts until players tried to withdraw.

And this happened 7 times? Come on.....

 

[soflat]

And this happened 7 times? Come on.....

Why not?

I worked in an office shared by 4 people before where 3 of them played MS Golf on the same PC.

I've been on ships where one PC was shared by a couple dozen people and half of them played solitaire or pinball to kill time.

If one user got an amazing sign-up bonus (25 no deposit and deposit 50 get 200) wouldn't word get around? Isn't that the purpose of the amazing bonus offer?

Also, even though I am an honest player, I wouldn't want an online casino calling my employer asking for information regarding a fraud investigation.

I'm not saying these guys didn't commit fraud. Just that the evidence presented in the forum could equally apply to innocent players who could (and have) got caught up in such a mess.

 

[Simmo!]

CM is not getting my work address from me.

I think you ought to provide it to CM. It's not like he's going to publish it and he is trying to help you after all. You can't expect a defence lawyer to protect you without him knowing all the information. It's a bit like asking a judge to find in your favour based on your word that your story is true.

Give him the details privately and they will stay private I'm sure.

Cheers

Simmo!

 

[bossplayer]

I can't resist this.

If some people "lawn gnome", would this be considered a mis-gnomer?

 

[The Dude]

User 1 downloads software, registers, plays.

Later, User 2 sits down and sees an appealing icon to a casino. Curious, she clicks it and plays in Fun Mode. Casino sends her a bonus offer which she can't resist. She deposits and is trapped...

Nope these are all separate account numbers. Each player has a separate account.

Try and download MG software. If you've never downloaded the casino before, it'll ask to create a folder in the casino name and commence from there. If you try downloading again, it would either overwrite this or query you to create a new folder.

Gaming Club T&Cs
If you open multiple accounts you will not be eligible for the Sign-Up Bonus on each account. The Sign-Up Bonus is only available once per Player and/or per environment where computers are shared and/or per e-mail address.

Casinomeister:
That's the problem. Did you read the terms and conditions carefully before you deposited? You are in a shared environment which negates your claim for winnings stemming from a bonus.

CM’s statement here is contrary to the plain language of the quoted terms. The player may have no way of knowing if he is the first to sign up from a particular shared environment or not. The first to do so is clearly entitled to the bonus. The casino is able to determine if a particular player is first from a given environment and can deny the bonus if he isn’t.

This if we are to assume he signed up at work in a shared environment. But the way this is looking - it's one computer sitting in this guy's house and he's made all of this up.

If he had read the T&Cs (as a seasoned player should) he would have downloaded and contacted the support people stating that he has opened an account on a shared environment computer, could they please check to see if anyone has an account from there.

Remember there are 400 people who have access to this computer. Which honestly really sounds like a weird place to open 7 casino accounts. Wouldn't you be worried about being seen by the boss or some brown-noser looking for a promotion?

Give him the details privately and they will stay private I'm sure.

Yes, they will stay private.

 

[GOCC]

Are you HONESTLY saying that you would not mind an online casino phoning your workplace and identifying themselves as an online casino and telling them they COULD have 4,5,6 online casino gamblers working for them.

Why do you think this is what will happen? Here's a much more likely scenario: Bryan gets the place of work, looks up their website and check the list of employees.

.

What are you on about.

OK then, my name is C Kay and I work for the NHS (Nation Health Service)
You tell me what Department I work in. I will bet you 500GBP you cant. Then I will give you my NHS email address so you can pay me to NETeller

 

[GOCC]

In fact, tell me a website that gives a list of employees coming to think about it.

Including Cleaners, maintenance, lackies etc etc

 

[jpsartre]

It's quite normal for companies or institutions to have a list of employees and emails on their website. I'm not saying that every company does this but as an example I was able to find out the names of my parents co-workers quite easily. They work in a kindergarden and a school.

 

[little_issue]

OK, so he tell CM where he works, what then, he phones up and speaks to HR and asks for a print off of everyone who works there. Then runs all the names past proc cyber and see if any of them match.[/I]

In most cases you can find out who works a certain place without using a phone, but even so, what would be wrong with the above if it would help clear the name of the accused player?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I work in HR for a large organisation. I can confirm that there is no way we would answer any such questions about employees. There are such things as the data protection act that specifically forbid organisations disclosing this kind of information.

I can fully understand the original poster not wanting to give that information.

You can just imagine the scenario.....

"Hi I am X from Online Casino Y, one of our players Z says that s/he works for your organisation, can you please confirm this? Also, while you are at it, can I have a list of all your employees?

Absolutely ridiculous to even contemplate such a thing ever occurring.

(edited as messed the quote function and inserted dotted line)

 

[scrollock]

My story

only just got round to reading this whole thread, i wont give my opinion, but think it is worthwile me relating my own personal story.

a few years ago i moved back to the area i grew up in, my brother still lives there and one day i went to his place and he was playing a casino, he said i could play for him, i then went on and promptly lost him a 100, to which he replied "dont worry, it wasnt my money, it was casino bonus money"

from then on i got into casinos, but i needed to sort out 2 things first, a computer and an internet connection.

i was unemployed at that time (as was my brother) so he recommended to me the same bottom of the range computer as his.

next i had to sort out an ISP, in my area about 10 years ago a company called comcast came up with this good idea of connecting everyone who didnt have a phoneline for free, my area is quite impoverished (its one of the few places in the UK to be desiginated an EU poverty zone), so in my flat i had a telephone line which could only be used by one company, and that is NTL (ntl had bought comcast in my area by now), so rather than go and pay BT 70 to be connected, not to mention more expensive phonecalls i went with NTL. for the exact same reasons my brother was with NTL.

so here we are, i will mention that me and my brother live at different addresses.

but we've got same computer,
same surname,
same area, (infact it was only the last 3 digits of our postcode that differed)
similar static IP, going through the same local server.

but it gets even worse, me and my bro like to play poker, but then one day we couldnt use betfair poker, turns out it was an NTL specific problem, on the betfair forum, someone posted up a proxy address to go through, we both done that, then suddenly we could both play poker.

when my brother was playing the casinos, he was a fan of red-dog, his justification being that you "get a lot of ties", which wasnt to bad in the days of x5 bonuses,but suddenly he was losing quite heavily and he accepted that reddog is a high house edge game and in the days of x20+ D+B bonuses you are on a loser with that strategy, so he eventually started to copy the way i played.

after a while we had exhausted all of the sign-ups of all the major casinos, so if any new casino came out, we would inevitably play the same casino within days as either one of us would tell the other next time we spoke.

so now weve got,

us using the same proxy
same style of play
signing up a the the same time

all of the above is true, but heres the hypothetical part, i didnt know that gaming club japan was a separate casino, had i known i would of played there and i would of told my brother who would of played there aswell.

given all the info above, i think i would have been more dammed than those in this thread,but the difference is that my brother and I are seperate people playing from separate computers from separate addreses.

(to be honest that isnt the case now as i have moved, but if this had came up 6 months ago, it would have been!).

obviously the above is not coincidence, the above similarities between my account and my brothers are through the fact that we know each other and have influenced each other.

but lets talk coincidences, given a large enough sample you will get lots of matching data between things.

now i am going to go off topic to illustrate a point, but i'm going to mention "cold case files" that the police are solving now with the aid of DNA technology.

there are people being arrested now and sentenced for crimes that have happened a long time ago and the only evidence is DNA, the jury get quoted figures of "5 million to one" and the jury gives it about 20 mins deliberation before coming back with the guilty verdict, does the jury consider that with 60 million people in the country that another 11 people have the same genetic markers ? no they dont, because they are not considering the population, they are considering that one person there.

why dont the police say to themselves "oh shit we have 12 matches", they dont because the police have only about 3 million DNA profiles on their database, so when they run it through they only get the one hit and thus the jury are not only told its a "5 million to one chance", but are told its "the only match in the country"

sorry to have digressed, but the point i'm making is that giving a large enough sample, you would always be able to link people and then quote the odds of that happening are "millions to one", but if the sample is big enough then chances of it happening is not millions to one, but an actual certainty.

another good example is the question "how many people do you have to have in a room, so that the odds of 2 of them sharing a birthday is greater than 50% ? IIRC the answer is 25"

now think then we are talking about 100,000's using the same casino we are going to have a lot of match up between details if we look for them.

now onto the "same computers have been used", i understand if there is someway of being able to tell if a computer has been used before , that the casinos want to keep this secret. i'm no tech expert, but i am a moderator on another forum (non gambling forum) and i'm use to having idiots on the forum opening up multiple accounts after being banned, i know there is ways of spotting the same PC, but they are no way foolproof.

for example i can read the browser someone is using, operating system and a few other system stats, but when i started banning people with exactly the same as those who i had already banned, i found i was banning a lot of innocent people, because they were unlucky to have the same "markers" as those who had been banned, this is an example of the proverbial baby and the bath water mentioned earlier in this thread.

getting away from coincidences, and going back to myself, you will find that a lot of things are connected, for example i lived in an area of high unemployment, thus i was unemployed, thus i bought the cheapest PC, thus i used the cheapest ISP. so if someone was to pick on my specific geographical area they is a high likelyhood they would find similarites between me and others in addition to my brother.

a few people mentioned earlier in the thread, that they are mostly UK, but this is an example of if you look for it, you will find it.

bryan, you mentioned earlier in the thread that you compare this with other "fraud rings" you have come across in the past, i trust your instinct in these matters, but can i ask, if this is a fraud ring why arnt we talking 5,10, 20 or even more accounts being opened from the same computer or source, from what ive read it seems to be 2 accounts (maybe 3) that have matched up in each case and neither you or the casino have said ALL of these accounts are linked, just 2 or 3 in each separate case, something which you would expect from my arguments above.

this post is not exonerate these individuals, but likewise i think we should all keep an open mind before passing judgement.

 

[The Dude]

bryan, you mentioned earlier in the thread that you compare this with other "fraud rings" you have come across in the past, i trust your instinct in these matters, but can i ask, if this is a fraud ring why arnt we talking 5,10, 20 or even more accounts being opened from the same computer or source, from what ive read it seems to be 2 accounts (maybe 3) that have matched up in each case and neither you or the casino have said ALL of these accounts are linked, just 2 or 3 in each separate case, something which you would expect from my arguments above.

this post is not exonerate these individuals, but likewise i think we should all keep an open mind before passing judgement.

I think I am being as fair as possible. If people want to use the resources that are available here, or to use my FREE service of mediating problems, then these individuals need to be upfront with their activities, and expect that I will push to get answers.

I also don't work from an empty desk. I have records going back a number of years on casino scams, player fraud schemes, etc. But even so, I try to look at each case with fresh eyes, giving the player the benefit of the doubt. But when things don't jive, what am supposed to do?

ManrcHolmes and Furby were not upfront with me. After being notified that their computer IDs are being used by several individuals they act surprised (and these are experienced bonus players who read Terms and Conditions?) . Furby disappears in a huff, and MarcHolmes says it's possible because he plays at work on a computer that perhaps 400 people have access to.

I thought about this over the weekend, and I remembered a poll I put up sometime ago:
Where do you play most? at work or at home?

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/where-do-you-play-the-most.11450/


Mostly at work. 1 1.69%
At work and at home 4 6.78%
Mostly at home 54 91.53%
I play mostly on other computers - school, libraries, neighbors and friends, etc. 0 0%

For the "work and at home" category, one of those players is me - since playing is work (and visa versa ). Another one of these persons is a webmaster, so I figure he's doing the same thing.

Which leaves us with what? One member plays at work - 91% of the members play at home. And no one plays in shared environments. This is just an indicator of player behavior and is not meant to negate MarcHolmes claim that he and several mysterious co-workers are playing from the same computer - but it goes to show that the chances for this are rather bleak.

How are we to not swayed to think he knowingly opened these accounts at home on his own computer? How are we to believe that he did this at work on a computer used by a shitload of people - and without being seen?

As for the number of fraudulent accounts being linked. It looks like around 60+ accounts, but it's complex and web-like. It's probably a group of college students (usually is) who share info, identities, docs, etc., and try to make some quick cash scamming bonuses with fake accounts. Furby's issue was separate but still scammy.

Please note: I haven't come out and stated "you are a fraudster" to any of these people. But I am having a difficult time exercising my suspension of disbelief.

 

[marcholmes]

G'day, sorry for the lack of posts on this subject, I've been busy this weekend.

As I've asked before, why is it OK for BR not give a list of these linked accs to me (as jackpot factory appear to)?, I can assure you I would honestly identify any of those names I knew at my place of work. BR won't do this.
So everyone decides it's OK for the casino to withold that sort of info but it's not OK for me to withold similar info?
As for 'being seen' at work, there is no issue, these computers are for our free use and are disconnected from our network.
Once again, for my own privacy & cos of what I do, I do not want to give out my work details. When I registered my accs at BR I was asked to provide contact details, which I duly did and that is where I want to be contacted.

 

[Vesuvio]

As for the number of fraudulent accounts being linked. It looks like around 60+ accounts, but it's complex and web-like. It's probably a group of college students (usually is) who share info, identities, docs, etc., and try to make some quick cash scamming bonuses with fake accounts. Furby's issue was separate but still scammy.

So are we saying these are made-up people, or accounts opened in the name of other people without their consent?

I'd assume if it's either of those it could easily be confirmed, or disproved.

 

[marcholmes]

Are these 60+ accs all linked to me? If so I definitely need more info (all the names) cos that is absolutely ridiculous

 

[jpsartre]

So are we saying these are made-up people, or accounts opened in the name of other people without their consent?

More likely, accounts opened in the name of other people with their consent.

 

[wideboy]

Hello,

Wideboy here, i'm glad some of you have been worrying about where i am, i appreciate your concern.

As i said in my last post, BR have agreed to pay back the 50GBP deposit, for the sake of 7GBP profit i couldnt really be bothered to spend any more time on the matter. So i accepted and its in my neteller now - so thanks belle rock for keeping to your word.

I havent seen chivers for a while, will give him a nudge back to this thread when i do see him next.

Wideboy

 

[The Dude]

Are these 60+ accs all linked to me? If so I definitely need more info (all the names) cos that is absolutely ridiculous

No, 60 acounts aren't linked to you - but several definately are.

The whole "computer at work" scenerio still doesn't work for me. Most establishments monitor what their employees are doing on the Internet and these computers are maintained administrators who upgrade software etc. Wouldn't a tech guy wonder why so many employees are downloading casino software?

And Jackpot Factory is a separate company from Bellerock. If they divulge the names to their players to others they are wrong, but it has nothing to do with this situation.

MarcHolmes uses a computer that has a number of other accounts on it. Whether or not it's at work is really beside the point. Either he has broken the casino's terms and conditions, or he has defrauded a casino. It's one or the other or both. Period.

 

[marcholmes]

MarcHolmes uses a computer that has a number of other accounts on it. Whether or not it's at work is really beside the point. Either he has broken the casino's terms and conditions, or he has defrauded a casino. It's one or the other or both. Period.

Just a couple of points about this (YET AGAIN!!!!).
Once you pointed out to me that I had broken the T+C's by using a shared computer at work, I accepted it, this was days ago now but you keep bringing it up?
I honestly had no idea the problem was to do with computer ID's, how many times do I have to repeat this?

Can I also point out to you what I put in the PITCH A BITCH FORM ENTITLED WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO? (What I wanted you to do)

>What do you want me to do?
I would like to know why they have messed me around so much, asking for docs, then certified docs and then finally saying I am linked to other players once I have got over every hurdle placed in my way.
They have lied to me at every step and I want to know why.
I also want to know: What these links are.
Who are these other players
Why am I linked.
How are they proving I am linked as I cannot understand how I can be linked to anyone else
Why is this stopping me being paid some deposits and all winnings?

Lets break it down
I would like to know why they have messed me around so much, asking for docs, then certified docs and then finally saying I am linked to other players once I have got over every hurdle placed in my way.
No real answer for me on this one yet.

They have lied to me at every step and I want to know why.
as above

What these links are.
Who are these other players
Why am I linked.
We got one answer here (computer ID). Apparently I'm not allowed to know who I'm linked to. If I'm not going to be told then I can't identify them and expalin any link.

How are they proving I am linked as I cannot understand how I can be linked to anyone else
We sort of got an answer to this, shared computer at work issue.

Why is this stopping me being paid some deposits and all winnings?
I now know I have not got winnings and as already posted I am no longer expecting them after you pointed out my use of a shared PC as a violation of the t+c's. Still X2 deposits are outstanding though. But I'm on the verge of giving up on them, this situation is taking far too long and getting bloody ridiculous. say I give my work details, next you'll want my inside leg, waist and chest measurements.

The computer issue at work doesn't work for you cos you don't know where I work and what I do. I'm really sorry but I can't/don't want to give you these details. I've been through this on here/with you so many times.

I'm sick of this issue, I've been battling this for 7 weeks and we've now hit a dead end here by the looks of things.

Thanks for all your efforts CM, I do appreciate it but I can't see any way forward from here simply because I won't divulge my work details?

 

[The Dude]

Lets break it down
I would like to know why they have messed me around so much, asking for docs, then certified docs and then finally saying I am linked to other players once I have got over every hurdle placed in my way.
No real answer for me on this one yet.

My guess is that there were a couple of investigations going on at the time they were asking for more information from you. No one said it's a perfect system, but it's a very thorough one.

They have lied to me at every step and I want to know why.
as above.

I don't think this is true. They told you that they had decided not to pay you.

What these links are.
Who are these other players
Why am I linked..

We got one answer here (computer ID). Apparently I'm not allowed to know who I'm linked to. If I'm not going to be told then I can't identify them and expalin any link.

And as soon as they tell you, you (and your friends - whatever) will perfect your system even further. Going back to the shmoo group. These people made a moronic mistake that will keep repeating itself until they get wise.

The computer issue at work doesn't work for you cos you don't know where I work and what I do. I'm really sorry but I can't/don't want to give you these details. I've been through this on here/with you so many times.

I don't think this works for anyone. It's probably the stupidest thing I've heard.

You download seven casinos on a work computer that's in a common area where up to 400 people may have access to this, and you never bothered to mention this before I told you you have multiple accounts. C'mon! Do you think I just jumped off of some boat from China? (sorry Chinese members - it's an expression)

I'm sick of this issue, I've been battling this for 7 weeks and we've now hit a dead end here by the looks of things.

Thanks for all your efforts CM, I do appreciate it but I can't see any way forward from here simply because I won't divulge my work details?

There are no work details to divulge in my opinion. You're doing this probably at your place of residence - or a friend's place. Or in your college dorm.

What a friggin' waste of time.

 

[bossplayer]

What a friggin' waste of time.

So do you send the bill to his work place or college dorm?

 

[marcholmes]

What a friggin' waste of time.

Absolutely! - I've lost over 7 bloody weeks on this.

As I said, if BR had of told me about computer ID's being a problem we wouldn't have had to go this far would we?
The reason we went this far is because they were not giving me enough information as to what the problem was.

I'm also sorry to say that your opinion of me having no place of work to reveal is incorrect.

Just because you did a survey and only one person said they played at work doesn't mean that I am lying - well it obviously does in your book. If I had of taken part in the survey you would've had two people vote for that option.

College Dorm? At my age?

We've concluded that I violated the t+c's because I used a computer in a shared environment, yes? In which case my claim for winnings is invalidated? (Well I hope so cos you said this to me and I agreed) What point is there in going any further bearing this in mind? What incentive do I have to reveal my place of work now anyway?

Sorry if that sounds arsey, it's not meant to sound as bad as it does, I just dunno how else to word it.

 

[The Dude]

Okay, if you want me to take this up another notch I will.

As per our agreement, and yours with Bellerock, they are sharing with me any information that will help me solve this.

Your street address is about 50 meters from the address of one of your "co-workers". On one occassion, you have both used the same phone number when registering one of the casino accounts. Oops!

So how coincedental is this? You unknowingly use the same computer at "work". This person lives just meters from your place. And this person uses your phone number when he/she opens the account.

Why are you using the same phone number as your neighbor who is a fellow employee?

Is this computer really at work or is it at home?

 

[marcholmes]

Okay, if you want me to take this up another notch I will.

As per our agreement, and yours with Bellerock, they are sharing with me any information that will help me solve this.

Your street address is about 50 meters from the address of one of your "co-workers". On one occassion, you have both used the same phone number when registering one of the casino accounts. Oops!

So how coincedental is this? You unknowingly use the same computer at "work". This person lives just meters from your place. And this person uses your phone number when he/she opens the account.

Why are you using the same phone number as your neighbor who is a fellow employee?

Is this computer really at work or is it at home?

50 metres? LMAO - I doubt it very much, I honestly suggest you give me the name of this person and I can tell you what I know about that person. 50 metres?

And when did I say I wanted you to take it up another notch? - you still aint responded to:
We've concluded that I violated the t+c's because I used a computer in a shared environment, yes? In which case my claim for winnings is invalidated? (Well I hope so cos you said this to me and I agreed) What point is there in going any further bearing this in mind? What incentive do I have to reveal my place of work now anyway?

Where on earth does that give you the impression I wanted you to take it up another notch?

 

[paul02085]

I sure would love to hear more details. I am usually quick to blame casinos so i would love be proven wrong here. The same phone number?? hmmm.