Ask me anything (about slots)!

[Jono777]

Or change casino

My hidden point, exposed

 

[Steviedoo]

My hidden point, exposed

Lol.

I’m going to assume it’s videoslots.

 

[ESCJAMIE]

Are reel king gambles TRULY 50-50

 

[ESCJAMIE]

Is extra chilli gambles random or pre determined

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

Is extra chilli gambles random or pre determined

It's been answered before: No gamble can legally be predetermined, extra chili games have the probability as represented on the wheel according to the btg rep and no one has presented any data to disprove this.

 

[slotter999]

Are reel king gambles TRULY 50-50

This question has been answered elsewhere by the software engineer responsible for doing the port from machine to online who confirmed it's truly a 50/50 gamble.

 

[ESCJAMIE]

This question has been answered elsewhere by the software engineer responsible for doing the port from machine to online who confirmed it's truly a 50/50 gamble.

Aha Okay Thank you

 

[Spikie]

Trancemonkey, I have a FOBT question..

Got a screenshot that shows rtp to player on £30 stake based on best strategy is 93% , but rtp to player on £30 stake based on random strategy is 73%

Can you explain what entails best strategy or random strategy ? I don’t understand how a player can influence the outcome , unless based on a gamble which shouldn’t affect rtp on what has been discussed previously.

How is there such a big difference and how is this allowed. ?

Thanks

 

[TheAddict]

What game is that spikie?

 

[trancemonkey]

What game is that spikie?

Exactly what I was about to ask... Is it something by CR games?

So my understanding is that if you play the game like an absolute tool you will get the 73% - they have to display max RTP and min RTP for slot games I believe.

It also has to state in the help pages what the best strategy is I believe ..

 

[Spikie]

What game is that spikie?

Boulder Bucks.

Screenshot taken from last nights stop and step youtube video

 

[trancemonkey]

Boulder Bucks.

Screenshot taken from last nights stop and step youtube video

Yup - CR games... they love finding ways to make you lose more money... i wish there was a minimum RTP in the UK

 

[CasinoNinja]

Its games where you have a choice to leave certain wins for better ones, say you had 3 picks with different features, first one gives you 50x win you choose to leave that for a potential better win, which is a better strategy, 2nd win is say 450x win. Now if you choose to leave this you are a tool as that would be a good win.

And then you have Legend of Pharaohs where during the feature you can choose to exchange your current free spins feature enhancements for another enhancement and x amount of free spins say like 10 free spins with A being wild.

Now say you got 1 spin left and it gave you a choice to swap to 10 freespins and you choose not to you have made a bad decision and would have got the "bad" rtp.

Both these games are available online too.

 

[CasinoNinja]

Just watched this from SG. (go to 2:46)

I know you answered this a million times, and I've asked it too. But why is it so hard to incorporate true pick for online games, when clearly in Vegas they do?
You did say for pick a feature to work, then they had to pay the same amount on average (potential wise), but clearly here $40 is a whole lot different to $1000 (or the biggest if you can win that on this feature).

They manager to balance the RTP out for true pick games, so I still am just as clueless..

 

[trancemonkey]

There is no reason why the same can't be done online - and when i was referring to a pick feature, it was something like three or four different choices of Free Games...
In the example they give, it can be true odds because you would have to pick five of the best symbol with only five picks. The odds of this are extremely small, so you can make that work mathematically...

It's all down to what you're asking the player to pick from and what the award is...

 

[CasinoNinja]

There is no reason why the same can't be done online - and when i was referring to a pick feature, it was something like three or four different choices of Free Games...
In the example they give, it can be true odds because you would have to pick five of the best symbol with only five picks. The odds of this are extremely small, so you can make that work mathematically...

It's all down to what you're asking the player to pick from and what the award is...

Cheers, that explains it better then.

 

[4048]

Hey Trancemonkey

With the release of IGT's new Solar Disc slot I got to play some IGT again, but I have some questions about some design decisions I would call questionable at best and detrimental to the experience at worst that often repeat themselves in IGT productions.

I realize you work primarily with B&M casino slots, but maybe you can still shed some light on some of the annoyances I have with IGT slots (mostly online but also some from land based) and why they are there.

1) General issues with online IGT gameplay
Why in this day and age is IGT still unable to ship games that have autoplay functions?
Why can I still not use spacebar to spin? This seems trivial to implement and would greatly increase gameplay experience?

2) Issues that I notice in multiple IGT slots (land based/online)
Slow counting of wins, bell ringing from wins all the way from 1-2x and up, and the inability to skip this. This is very prominent in Gypsy Moon both online and on land and is the only issue I have with that game.
Winning .5x your bet doesn't feel like a win, but winning 2.5x bet also doesn't feel worth celebrating.

3) Specifically with Solar Disc
Who thought it was a good decision to make a 4x6 reel game have 26 paylines?
Getting a near full screen wild gives fairly amazing wins in most games I played but in this the highest win I had was around 70x with most of the screen covered in wilds and the top premium symbol.

I'm not looking for a 100% answer for most of these since I know you do land based games, but maybe you can enlighten me in what makes some of these decisions good.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trancemonkey

With the release of IGT's new Solar Disc slot I got to play some IGT again, but I have some questions about some design decisions I would call questionable at best and detrimental to the experience at worst that often repeat themselves in IGT productions.

I realize you work primarily with B&M casino slots, but maybe you can still shed some light on some of the annoyances I have with IGT slots (mostly online but also some from land based) and why they are there.

1) General issues with online IGT gameplay
Why in this day and age is IGT still unable to ship games that have autoplay functions?
Why can I still not use spacebar to spin? This seems trivial to implement and would greatly increase gameplay experience?

2) Issues that I notice in multiple IGT slots (land based/online)
Slow counting of wins, bell ringing from wins all the way from 1-2x and up, and the inability to skip this. This is very prominent in Gypsy Moon both online and on land and is the only issue I have with that game.
Winning .5x your bet doesn't feel like a win, but winning 2.5x bet also doesn't feel worth celebrating.

3) Specifically with Solar Disc
Who thought it was a good decision to make a 4x6 reel game have 26 paylines?
Getting a near full screen wild gives fairly amazing wins in most games I played but in this the highest win I had was around 70x with most of the screen covered in wilds and the top premium symbol.

I'm not looking for a 100% answer for most of these since I know you do land based games, but maybe you can enlighten me in what makes some of these decisions good.

You're more than welcome to ask questions like this...

I'm afraid i can't answer question 1 - that's a decision that is up to the online team, and to which i have no input. I'm not going to speculate, but hopefully some of them read this and can see your frustration.

As for your second question, again this is up to the online team and the producer working on that game. The games we make for land-based certainly don't celebrate wins of less than 5x in the way you describe - certainly not recent games. Gypsy Moon is not recent - it's a pretty old GTech game if i recall correctly.

As for the number of lines on Solar Disc, again this is a producer decision. Basically, 26 lines means that all possibly adjacent positions (horizontally and diagonally) across the first three reels are lines. It also therefore means that you have more money to make the Wild feature better if you're paying more for a bet than you have lines... So yes the max win is not huge, but also bear in mind that not every player is chasing a huge win. Some just want lots of 40x wins... We have to cater games for multiple types of people, so we have a wide range of profiles and game designs.

Not everyone will like every game...

TM

 

[VismundCygnus]

You're more than welcome to ask questions like this...

I'm afraid i can't answer question 1 - that's a decision that is up to the online team, and to which i have no input. I'm not going to speculate, but hopefully some of them read this and can see your frustration.

As for your second question, again this is up to the online team and the producer working on that game. The games we make for land-based certainly don't celebrate wins of less than 5x in the way you describe - certainly not recent games. Gypsy Moon is not recent - it's a pretty old GTech game if i recall correctly.

As for the number of lines on Solar Disc, again this is a producer decision. Basically, 26 lines means that all possibly adjacent positions (horizontally and diagonally) across the first three reels are lines. It also therefore means that you have more money to make the Wild feature better if you're paying more for a bet than you have lines... So yes the max win is not huge, but also bear in mind that not every player is chasing a huge win. Some just want lots of 40x wins... We have to cater games for multiple types of people, so we have a wide range of profiles and game designs.

Not everyone will like every game...

TM

Thanks for the response! (Sorry for hijacking)

On the first question, do you see any problems or benefits to having autoplay in your B&M slots?

On Solar Disc, is there any reason to design those 26 winlines to NOT cover all adjacent positions of the first three reels? Would you increase volatility by doing so?

 

[4048]

You're more than welcome to ask questions like this...

I'm afraid i can't answer question 1 - that's a decision that is up to the online team, and to which i have no input. I'm not going to speculate, but hopefully some of them read this and can see your frustration.

As for your second question, again this is up to the online team and the producer working on that game. The games we make for land-based certainly don't celebrate wins of less than 5x in the way you describe - certainly not recent games. Gypsy Moon is not recent - it's a pretty old GTech game if i recall correctly.

As for the number of lines on Solar Disc, again this is a producer decision. Basically, 26 lines means that all possibly adjacent positions (horizontally and diagonally) across the first three reels are lines. It also therefore means that you have more money to make the Wild feature better if you're paying more for a bet than you have lines... So yes the max win is not huge, but also bear in mind that not every player is chasing a huge win. Some just want lots of 40x wins... We have to cater games for multiple types of people, so we have a wide range of profiles and game designs.

Not everyone will like every game...

TM

Thanks for your reply, however for the questions you didn't answer I was more interested in what you as a designer think of these decisions.

I understand that some players want those 30-50x wins more often than the occasional massive win, but to me some decisions on that game just seem weird.

If I were to design a 25-26 line game I wouldn't pick a 4x6 setup as that just seem overkill. I'm sure the maths could return the exact same volatility and rtp on a 3 by 5 board with some modifications

 

[trancemonkey]

Thanks for your reply, however for the questions you didn't answer I was more interested in what you as a designer think of these decisions.

I understand that some players want those 30-50x wins more often than the occasional massive win, but to me some decisions on that game just seem weird.

If I were to design a 25-26 line game I wouldn't pick a 4x6 setup as that just seem overkill. I'm sure the maths could return the exact same volatility and rtp on a 3 by 5 board with some modifications

I know the designer ... He's in the same team as me. A lot of the time we just try things to see what happens. Sometimes they work well and sometimes they don't. That game is successful in B & M, and what is one person's hate is another person's abivalence.

If we always did the same things, it would get a bit boring... Will he do that 26 on a 6 x 4 again? You'll have to wait and see

 

[trancemonkey]

Thanks for the response! (Sorry for hijacking)

On the first question, do you see any problems or benefits to having autoplay in your B&M slots?

On Solar Disc, is there any reason to design those 26 winlines to NOT cover all adjacent positions of the first three reels? Would you increase volatility by doing so?

I use autoplay wherever it is legally allowed ... Some player don't like it. Some always use it. Tends to be more likely to be used in VLT markets where there are minimum game times.

You wouldn't increase volatility necessarily. Volatility is normally lower the more lines you have but your could easily make a very volatile 100 line game and a pretty non-volatile 1 line game.

 

[Playford7]

Not been around for some time. Reading through this thread, absolutely fantastic!...
great info and knowledge, not to mention patience from trance lol!...
Utterly useful thread and so informative.

 

[trancemonkey]

Not been around for some time. Reading through this thread, absolutely fantastic!...
great info and knowledge, not to mention patience from trance lol!...
Utterly useful thread and so informative.

Why thank you sir... Sometimes a little sarcasm eeks out with the tin foilers but still... I do my best

 

[goatwack]

It's been one rambunctious rollercoaster of a thread alright. Full of information, useful tidbits, misinformation, conspiracy theories and profanities.

And that's just the first couple of pages!

Trance has done his bit too, here and there

 

[Playford7]

Why thank you sir... Sometimes a little sarcasm eeks out with the tin foilers but still... I do my best

It’s good though. Open opinions and discussion, that’s what a forum is all about.
All long as people keep it decent.
It’s a superb thread, and I’m on the fence regarding ‘rigged’ but leaning more towards the fact they are not. As really they have no need to, and the fact over the years not one single person, a ex employee for example hasn’t came out and claim ‘it’s a fix’
Statistically that’s almost impossible, like those who assume 911 was a inside job... the amount of people that would have to be involved would be insane and just not viable.

 

[dionysus]

Trance has done his bit too, here and there

thats the dj dude innit?

 

[goatwack]

thats the dj dude innit?

I believe so

 

[nikantw]

Slots aren't rigged, 911 wasn't an inside job, we landed on the moon and the earth isn't flat.

But in some (not all) of these facts, only 80% of the absolute truth has been publicly admitted. That is all.

 

[Jd666]

Slots aren't rigged, 911 wasn't an inside job, we landed on the moon and the earth isn't flat.

But in some (not all) of these facts, only 80% of the absolute truth has been publicly admitted. That is all.

Is Elvis still alive?

 

[dionysus]

Is Elvis still alive?

My hometown hosts the world's largest Elvis festival every year, so sadly....yes

 

[trancemonkey]

My hometown hosts the world's largest Elvis festival every year, so sadly....yes

And you attend...

 

[goatwack]

Slots aren't rigged, 911 wasn't an inside job, we landed on the moon and the earth isn't flat.

But in some (not all) of these facts, only 80% of the absolute truth has been publicly admitted. That is all.

1 out of 4 ain't bad

 

[slotmaster]

My hometown hosts the world's largest Elvis festival every year, so sadly....yes

aha! So that's where you live now. I thought you were Wasaga Beach.

 

[dionysus]

And you attend...

lol, hellz no

 

[dionysus]

aha! So that's where you live now. I thought you were Wasaga Beach.

Wasaga/Collingwood - Collingwood being the one which hosts it...it's where I'm from but not where I live

 

[goatwack]

You'll be hard-pressed to get anyone to emulate his greatest performance to date

 

[SuperVGA]

Hello.

I have a question about the Mega Moolah Bonus Round.
According to Microgaming you have higer chance to trigger the Bonus Round, when you bet higher.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I guess it would work like that.
A random number between 0 and 20000 starts the bonus round. So, I guess it is like buying a ticket. With a 0.25 bet I would buy 25 ticket(25 numbers) and when I choose a 6.25 bet it would be like buying 625 tickets.
Would you say it could work like that or completely different?

I personally triggered the bonus round approximately 12 times. 4 times the minor jackpot and 8 times the mini jackpot.
Bet-Size 0.50€ = 1 Bonus Round
Bet-Size 1.25€ = 10 Bonus Round
Bet-Size 2.50€ = 1 Bonus Round

 

[trancemonkey]

Hello.

I have a question about the Mega Moolah Bonus Round.
According to Microgaming you have higer chance to trigger the Bonus Round, when you bet higher.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I guess it would work like that.
A random number between 0 and 20000 starts the bonus round. So, I guess it is like buying a ticket. With a 0.25 bet I would buy 25 ticket(25 numbers) and when I choose a 6.25 bet it would be like buying 625 tickets.
Would you say it could work like that or completely different?

I personally triggered the bonus round approximately 12 times. 4 times the minor jackpot and 8 times the mini jackpot.
Bet-Size 0.50€ = 1 Bonus Round
Bet-Size 1.25€ = 10 Bonus Round
Bet-Size 2.50€ = 1 Bonus Round

It will likely be a linear chance... so if your chance at 0.50€ is 1 in 500, then at 2.50€ it will be 1 in 100

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

Hi again @trancemonkey - your thoughts on this?

RTS requirement 7C: Game designs or features that may reasonably be expected to mislead the customer about the likelihood of particular results occurring are not permitted, including substituting losing events with near-miss losing events and simulations of real devices that do not simulate the real probabilities of the device.

Hasn't it been long accepted that quickspin do this near miss? It would seem easily verifiable not only via statistical analysis but logically:
Certain QS slots will add an extra third scatter that falls just below the pay line (where it's still visible due to the increased icon size) despite it being right above/below another scatter, which is not a possible reel layout. It's clearly an overlay "bait scatter".

Do they just worm around the rules by not technically having the scatter on the payline?

And a second (unrelated) question:
How does brute force game verification take into consideration accumulators?
Normally this wouldn't matter so much but imagine Vikings go Berzerk- with 4 very hard to trigger accumulators all running concurrently.
A single person (or testing script) running 100,000,000 consecutive games will go very close to trtp whereas 1,000,000 people playing 100 spins would fall very very short since almost none would release the (significant) money tied up in the accumulators.

edit: The actual RTP of this slot at videoslots (from their own stats, every single spin since launch) is 94.3% - well below the stated TRTP of 96.1%

 

[trancemonkey]

Hi again @trancemonkey - your thoughts on this?

RTS requirement 7C: Game designs or features that may reasonably be expected to mislead the customer about the likelihood of particular results occurring are not permitted, including substituting losing events with near-miss losing events and simulations of real devices that do not simulate the real probabilities of the device.

Hasn't it been long accepted that quickspin do this near miss? It would seem easily verifiable not only via statistical analysis but logically:
Certain QS slots will add an extra third scatter that falls just below the pay line (where it's still visible due to the increased icon size) despite it being right above/below another scatter, which is not a possible reel layout. It's clearly an overlay "bait scatter".

Do they just worm around the rules by not technically having the scatter on the payline?

And a second (unrelated) question:
How does brute force game verification take into consideration accumulators?
Normally this wouldn't matter so much but imagine Vikings go Berzerk- with 4 very hard to trigger accumulators all running concurrently.
A single person (or testing script) running 100,000,000 consecutive games will go very close to trtp whereas 1,000,000 people playing 100 spins would fall very very short since almost none would release the (significant) money tied up in the accumulators.

edit: The actual RTP of this slot at videoslots (from their own stats, every single spin since launch) is 94.3% - well below the stated TRTP of 96.1%

Hello again

The scatter issue is a gray area as the symbol doesn't land "in view" and therefore they are not changing the final outcome that the RNG has determined. In other words the reel positions that were picked were the ones displayed to the player. The symbols above and below the reels are technically not part of the win display although I would argue that they should be counted as such. I can't comment on any specific providers but suffice to say that if any are purposely changing the symbols above and below the reels in order to give the impression of a near miss then I would say this could be something that the test houses are missing.

Also on your question about RTP verification... It only assumes one player across a large number of games. So on games like you mention the RTP could be low for a while... That said if I was VS I would be questioning that RTP... If the RTP runs too low then that could be an issue for UKGC.

 

[slotter999]

Hi again @trancemonkey - your thoughts on this?

Hasn't it been long accepted that quickspin do this near miss? It would seem easily verifiable not only via statistical analysis but logically:
Certain QS slots will add an extra third scatter that falls just below the pay line (where it's still visible due to the increased icon size) despite it being right above/below another scatter, which is not a possible reel layout. It's clearly an overlay "bait scatter".

Do they just worm around the rules by not technically having the scatter on the payline?

And a second (unrelated) question:
How does brute force game verification take into consideration accumulators?
Normally this wouldn't matter so much but imagine Vikings go Berzerk- with 4 very hard to trigger accumulators all running concurrently.
A single person (or testing script) running 100,000,000 consecutive games will go very close to trtp whereas 1,000,000 people playing 100 spins would fall very very short since almost none would release the (significant) money tied up in the accumulators.

edit: The actual RTP of this slot at videoslots (from their own stats, every single spin since launch) is 94.3% - well below the stated TRTP of 96.1%

On the first point about the scatters being visible but impossible to hit. This is sometimes a result of coding that is responsible for the pseudo spinning of reels. They use pseudo code to try and obfuscate the actual reelstrips. The HTML5 version of DOA is a good example of this and you can view the JavaScript which is responsible for that behaviour. I imagine stuff like this slips through the certification net because test houses don't test the client - at least not as far as I know. They simply take the source code and crunch the numbers.

As for your 2nd point - I've mentioned this before but my take on these type of games is they are incredibly bad for players. Particularly a game like Vikings go bezerk which has four pots. Unless you somehow manage to clear all pots around the same time you will forever be leaving RTP in the game. So the figures from videoslot come as no surprise and I would imagine the RTP shortfall is most likely caused by all this dead money left in pots after players finally figured out it's a bullshit concept used to keep them playing and walk away - walking away and leaving that rtp in the game. If I were a player friendly game developer - I would add a pie gamble on each pot which gave the player the chance of triggering the bonus with odds relative to the accumulated amount. That way you could walk away leaving no RTP in the game. But thinking about it....if I were a player friendly developer....I just wouldn't add that crap in the first place. If you've ever been on tilt chasing one of these things you'll know it's like a red tag to a problem gambling bull.

Glad you're back man.

 

[vnk207]

ANYTHING is anything Almost all online slot games run smooth on my i3 laptop in chrome, but genie jackpots megawild runs very slow, to slow to play on it. I wonder if one of you experienced this also and maybe if someone have a solution. I tried all common browsers, all the same.
gr

 

[trancemonkey]

ANYTHING is anything Almost all online slot games run smooth on my i3 laptop in chrome, but genie jackpots megawild runs very slow, to slow to play on it. I wonder if one of you experienced this also and maybe if someone have a solution. I tried all common browsers, all the same.
gr

Sounds like an incompatibility issue with your PC. Have you tried other Blueprint games?

 

[Pauln 71]

Question..my RTP at Videoslots is 92.86
I presume this is since I started playing with them around 8 months ago.I have deposited around£1000 cashed out nothing and currently have a zero balance.I was never top of the maths class but what the hell am I missing here?

 

[trancemonkey]

Question..my RTP at Videoslots is 92.86
I presume this is since I started playing with them around 8 months ago.I have deposited around£1000 cashed out nothing and currently have a zero balance.I was never top of the maths class but what the hell am I missing here?

You RTP is not Deposits Vs Withdrawals... It is money wagered (played) through the games vs cash won.

If you deposit 100 and play only one game, and play to extinction (i.e you keep playing until you run out of money) that doesn't make the games RTP 0%. The games RTP takes in to account ALL the money you have wagered (which will be well over 100) and all the money it's paid out during that time.

So if during that time you wagered 800 and the game paid out 700, then the games RTP for that session would be 700 / 800 = 87.5%

Does that make sense?

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

You RTP is not Deposits Vs Withdrawals... It is money wagered (played) through the games vs cash won.

If you deposit 100 and play only one game, and play to extinction (i.e you keep playing until you run out of money) that doesn't make the games RTP 0%. The games RTP takes in to account ALL the money you have wagered (which will be well over 100) and all the money it's paid out during that time.

So if during that time you wagered 800 and the game paid out 700, then the games RTP for that session would be 700 / 800 = 87.5%

Does that make sense?

Or to put it perhaps more simply: 99% RTP means you've won on average 99 cents for every dollar wagered. Which will still leave you with $0 eventually.

 

[Greigssy]

Hi, I don't know if you've answered this but those slots like Eggomatic, Rabbit in the Hat etc ,where a free spin symbol randomly appears on the conveyor above,
how do these work? Normally every spin is supposed to be independent, so simply put it's Spin>Server>RNG>Return with an approx 1:150 chance of free spins(Non BTG)

But on these slots there is initially no chance of triggering free spins without a symbol until it's triggered via the outcome before.
So is it Spin>Server>RNG>Return and a chance of free spins on next few spins with fewer odds i.e a change in the random numbers available that can lead to free spins?

 

[Scott1baird]

Hi there do you know the name of the game that has fairies or elf's where there is a wild leaf that sometimes comes down, and you could also buy the feature spins before BGT done it?

 

[trancemonkey]

Hi, I don't know if you've answered this but those slots like Eggomatic, Rabbit in the Hat etc ,where a free spin symbol randomly appears on the conveyor above,
how do these work? Normally every spin is supposed to be independent, so simply put it's Spin>Server>RNG>Return with an approx 1:150 chance of free spins(Non BTG)

But on these slots there is initially no chance of triggering free spins without a symbol until it's triggered via the outcome before.
So is it Spin>Server>RNG>Return and a chance of free spins on next few spins with fewer odds i.e a change in the random numbers available that can lead to free spins?

Each spin is still independent. At the start of every spin there is a decision as to what egg to put on to the conveyor belt and a reel spin outcome decision.
So a Free Spin egg can appear in every spin.

This is the same as Elephant King by IGT... You don't always have a Free Spin outcome at the top but there is a chance in every spin for one to appear.