APCW Reports: Gambling Wages Interview

[GaryWatson]

I like the stuff APCW has done in the past and they have done a lot to help the players.

I dont understand the reasoning behind this.

APCW has made a name though having integrity. Why risk the trust of their built readership on a group that has a dodgy past?

I would say APCW is being used as a pawn, not only as a advertisement from a reputable source but to cause a division between groups who share a common goal, and that is to frog march the costa rican styled companies out the door.

There are smaller, reputable & more worthy sites that would love APCW's approval. No need to give the rogue sites more bite. We want regulated conditions & groups like that have no place online.

The group has a history of lies a deceit. They are more than capable of pulling the wool over APCW's eyes, only if they are willing to listen.

I think I more or less echo the opinions of everyone here on the forum, another group who aim for integrity. I only hope you consider and remain a solid ally, or the rogues win using the old war strategy, divide and conquer.

 

[swampwitch]

Outside of Bryan and ourselves, no one in this industry lifts a finger to help players because they don't give a damn about you or your issues.

Excuse me while I put on my hip waders to tackle this sucker.

I've seen some mighty rank horse excrement on this board from time to time, but that statement is right up there as one of the most ill-informed loads I've seen. I don't know whether to be polite and call it a mistatement, or to just be myself and call it what it is...an outright lie.

I know plenty of webmasters who go to hell and back fighting the good fight for their players, especially when the player is in the right. Even an absolute nobody in the industry like me (and my partner Sorrelltop, one of the most honest people on the internet today) advocate for our players...and players that don't earn us a penny. And when we don't get satisfaction for the righteous player, sponsorship and/or affiliation is dropped faster than that paid-for plane ride you took to CR. There are many honest and ethical webmasters who spend hours and hours of unpaid time getting the job done that you're so sure you've cornered the market on. My good friend CPA of the much maligned so-called "Sucks Crew" and the new GIA has worked tirelessly behind the scenes, sending literally hundreds of emails to resolve just one case of the many that come across his desk.

The difference between you and those other webmasters? They don't feel the need to endlessly toot their own horn. They don't need their egos stroked in public.

While you and your organization have done some good, lets not pretend that it's always a purely altruistic endeavour. Acting as watchdog, etc., is part of your marketing shtick. Some webmasters use well written articles, others use amazingly adept seo strategies, and still others use page bombardment...and far too many of them use paid for data lists and kamikazi spam campaigns. You use the personna of watchdog and well-honed media savvy. Don't get me wrong...it's not necessarily bad shtick...but shtick it is.

You went to CR on GW's dime, did not ask the hard questions, and repeated talking points as though they were gospel. Your infomercial could have been a training video for Fox News. Fair and balanced my ass.

Did you really expect a forum full of (mostly) savvy gamblers to give you a tongue bath over this? If there had been true substance in the interview, if there had been real admittance of past wrongdoing, if there had been even a glimpse of a revolution in the way these rogues use vague T&C's to steal...you'd have gotten the respect and admiration you seem to crave.

Instead, like Virtual Danny before you, you're going to go back to the places where your butt is properly kissed, to where the only things that matter are affiliate tracking and whether affiliates get paid in a timely manner.

This coulda been good for the industry...instead you simply made yourself look like Gambling Wages' butt monkey.

 

[jetset]

Perhaps a harsh indictment, but I believe one that is generally accurate.

In particular the point is well made that to disrespect or ignore the efforts of other folks in this industry who are known to assist players and take the fight to rogue casinos is both arrogant and insensitive - it can't be ignorance - APCW has been around long enough to know better than that.

 

[chuchu59]

Bryan has reported in this forum that he gave The Virtual Casino group numerous chances to correct their errant ways. After a short period of seeming correction and stability, Virtual reverted back to its old ways and was thus rerogued. Bryan's hesitation then seems understandable to me.

IMO full disclosure would be a refreshing start to any dialogue, e.g., the current ownership of the recently rebranded casinos of the late Warren Cloud's Doleplex Group.

I am in total agreement with Suze. I think the ball is in their court right now. Until they show some consistent signs that they are on the mend it is pointless to start a dialogue with them.

 

[winbig]

IMO full disclosure would be a refreshing start to any dialogue, e.g., the current ownership of the recently rebranded casinos of the late Warren Cloud's Doleplex Group.

What's to say that "Warren Cloud" is out of the picture? I'd love to see concrete evidence to the contrary. Just because he's not visible doesn't mean that he isn't still calling the shots.

Isn't The Google great? You have to love the ability to be totally anonymous. I just wish people would quit clogging up those damn tubes on the Internets.

 

[suzecat]

I am in total agreement with Suze. I think the ball is in their court right now. Until they show some consistent signs that they are on the mend it is pointless to start a dialogue with them.

Boy howdy! This entire thread has been pointless IMO...........we already knew more than we've wanted to know....

What's to say that "Warren Cloud" is out of the picture? I'd love to see concrete evidence to the contrary. Just because he's not visible doesn't mean that he isn't still calling the shots.

Dude........................I thought Warren Cloud died........

Isn't The Google great? You have to love the ability to be totally anonymous. I just wish people would quit clogging up those damn tubes on the Internets.

You're trying hard not to tell us something............right?

 

[winbig]

Dude........................I thought Warren Cloud died........

I dunno...been out of the loop for 4.5 months, remember?

I guess I'm cynical....I don't take anything for granted when it comes to Virtual.

 

[bryand]

Well, we tried...

The APCW's intentions in this entire undertaking were always pure. We had only the best motivations going down there, doing the interview, and posting it. We truly wanted to gather your complaints and opinions and make positive changes for the industry.

LOL....I called him out because he tried the same thing in May.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/apcw-perspectives-weekly-05-23-08.24915/

 

[Auditor]

LOL....I called him out because he tried the same thing in May.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/apcw-perspectives-weekly-05-23-08.24915/

Like I said in May: If you have a particular issue, let me know.

Right now we have an open communication with Gambling Wages and when players tell us there is an issue, we are getting them paid. I am not saying go play there. I am saying if anyone has a problem we are here to help.

The bottom line is we can help players and webmasters that have problems with Gambling Wages. We can help players and webmasters that have problems with any APCW member programs.

 

[suzecat]

Like I said in May: If you have a particular issue, let me know.

Right now we have an open communication with Gambling Wages and when players tell us there is an issue, we are getting them paid. I am not saying go play there. I am saying if anyone has a problem we are here to help.

The bottom line is we can help players and webmasters that have problems with Gambling Wages. We can help players and webmasters that have problems with any APCW member programs.

That's kinda cool for players who have joined GW.......errrr...Virtual through a GW affiliate .............but GW still sucks for us "regular" players Glad to see you back APCW

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi all,

Thanks for your patience allowing me to get to this now.

Websites that have high profiles in this industry (CM, APCW, CAP, GPWA, etc.), are generally sought after by casinos or their affiliate programs to ensure that they receive enough players to keep them afloat. When casinos have seriously screwed up in the past, they'll approach us as well hoping for a second chance. Please don't fault the APCW for giving Gambling Wages a listening ear and a chance to prove themselves worthy of patronage. The APCW is only trying to be fair to a new affiliate manager who is adamant (apparently) on cleaning up a screwed up mess. They are also doing their job on reporting on whatever transpires from this.

One thing that everyone needs to understand is that most webmasters/websites like to make their own decisions and not rely solely on the experiences posted on other sites. We want to experience the screw-ups ourselves. This way we have our own fodder to aim wherever we please. And it gives credence to the persons running the website that they are truly separate entities from their brethren.

As for the Virtual Casino Group, I have personally given them more chances to redeem themselves than anyone else. Three times I believe - and each time they were given themselves enough rope to hang. I feel sorry for anyone who chooses to do business with them - especially accepting employment - since their casino group is known by insiders as probably the worst place for casino employment in CR - period. They have their personal little hell-hole that generates its share of disgruntled employees. Why do you think they're claiming under "new" management so often?

As for Gambling Wages, their new aff manager has one hell of a task set in front of him. Personally, I don't think he'll be able to convince the casino to pay some of its players that are owed big time. And I'm not talking about acepro's situation but of a few others - one player has been owed six figures from Cool Cat and Cirrus for the past couple of years and he has to literally beg each month for a "scheduled" installment. It's truly pathetic.

My philosophy is live and learn. If the APCW is willing to take a bite in the ass for giving these guys a chance, then great, so be it. I was raked over the coals a couple of times myself for doing the same thing over the last few years, but honestly - that's par for the course in this line of work. You have to be able to understand and listen to both sides of any situation in order to provide your audience with viable information. If this calls for giving someone a chance to redeem or prove himself, then you need to take this into consideration.

You also need to be able to make decisions for yourself. I've made mine. It'll be interesting to revisit this thread a year from now.

 

[jetset]

Hey, Bryan - good to see you back!

Whilst I understand and even agree with your views posted here, I believe there are some cases - Virtual is one - that are so consistently controversial that the impossibility of redemption has to be acknowledged. Short of a change in ownership/top management presence or thinking, the industry track record here indicates that "turning over a new leaf" is not regarded as a serious or permanent undertaking at this group.

That being the case, there is the danger that someone else will continue to provide a platform for Virtual's repeated claims of change to a more ethical standard....and that may result in the unwary getting sucked in and eventually burned.

These guys are making a tradition of the "Fool me once...." cliche.

As you said above - you have yourself given these guys three chances to reform at their request. Surely that's sufficient indication to other webmasters that it's unlikely it will happen?

As far as I can see, giving Virtual yet another chance has only one advantage for the player community - it might get a few outstanding claims paid as Virtual strives to convince everyone that it has left the Dark Side.

 

[RobWin]

Warren Cloud aka Oliver Curran the so called casino tycoon is said to be dead but has anyone actually proven this yet ? Is there an actual death certificate located somewhere in SA that someone could verify this...it should be public information like in the US...

This guy was such a low life slick ass that I would not put it past him in the least to fake his own death just so he could re-invent the Virtual Empire of casinos...

 

[jetset]

Regarding Cloud, I seem to recall that his death was confirmed to Bryan by RTG. And a funeral service was held, according to media reports.

 

[winbig]

Regarding Cloud, I seem to recall that his death was confirmed to Bryan by RTG. And a funeral service was held, according to media reports.

Does anyone know how he died? Disgruntled player/group?

 

[jetset]

Surprisingly, no.

Massive heart attack at age 34 whilst out on his boat off Spain.

 

[winbig]

Surprisingly, no.

Massive heart attack at age 34 whilst out on his boat off Spain.

Isn't Karma a bitch?