1. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies .This website or its third-party tools use cookies, which are necessary to its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Anonymity & Right To Privacy (Debate)

Discussion in 'The Attic' started by JackMack, Apr 10, 2015.

    Apr 10, 2015
  1. JackMack

    JackMack Banned User - troll, flaming, being a dick

    Occupation:
    content writer
    Location:
    England
    Sorry but that is total bull.
    None of the following condones any criminal act and certainly not this despicable extortion of a business but to say Bitcoin is the problem is asinine.

    what always makes me laugh when the nothing to hide nothing to fear crowd come out of the woodwork is the irony - they don't even understand the quote is attributed to supreme authoritarian Nazi propagandist Goebbels. It was only ever to sooth the simple minded sycophants of the establishment as they cracked down on anyone who opposed their tyranny. Amazing such a transparent piece of propaganda can still be effective in the minds of people today which is probably why so much propaganda and tyranny is based on blue prints from the Nazi regime.

    You want to blame Bitcoin for criminal activity?
    Do you understand why Bitcoin came about?
    Do you realise the biggest fraudsters and criminals in the world work in the banking industry which is precisely why Bitcoin came about - to counter banker controlled currency and fiat money?

    Do you understand why they really want a cashless society and to trace every penny?
    But hey, having globalist bankers decide you should forfeit your bank account to pay their debt and simply taking your money isn't a crime right? (Cyprus)
    And they would never do that again anyway, right?
    And the government certainly wouldn't use it to track your movements and the data would never be sold to third parties for commercial gain, right?

    Just as the internet is not to blame for fraud nor is Bitcoin - the fraudsters are.
    The very things you want to give up control of to the establishment for security (who by the way are proven liars, fraudsters, criminals, paedophiles to varying degrees) are the very things that give us what little freedom and privacy we have left.
    It is such a sick twisted inverse joke that even Cameron's adviser on internet censorship (To save the children!) was arrested on paedophile charges.But it doesn't matter how obvious the tyranny is because folk like you will never ever see it.
    Will you be like the compliant Germans, applauding as they frog march dissenters off if we ever get that far down the rabbit hole.

    Technology, whether it is Bitcoin or a drone are neutral, it is how they are used and who by that matters.

    Sorry for veering off topic but that was the second comment of ignorance about Bitcoin.
     
    5 people like this.
  2. Apr 10, 2015
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is a good point. The instrument of a crime is often blamed, but it's the way it gets used that's the problem.

    I expect Bitcoin isn't too popular with governments because it's a token of worth that is hard to tax and control. If Bitcoin had not been invented, something else would have been used, and WAS used in the past. The real instrument of this crime is the Botnet and those behind it. Botnets are possible because Microsoft virtually owns the internet, and it's software dominates. Users are left to their own devices when it comes to security of their machines, they have to search out the best third party products and services and install them. Making money from users by selling them security products is clearly more important than the security of the internet itself. If the security of the internet itself was an international priority, then governments and the major software providers would collaborate and develop the very best protection possible, and then distribute it to users "as part of the service".

    Many of the hacks can be traced back to deliberate "back doors" being built into many software and security packages to suit the "security services" of many countries, or even the corporate interests of private companies who "hack their own software" to make even more money for themselves. This desire to flood internet users with ads is the biggest security hole on the internet. The complex means by which this is achieved, often against users' wishes and ad blocking plug-ins, create opportunities for hackers. Many websites just don't work on a truly secured machine, so users have to lower their security setting just so that "the internet works", or in other words, the websites they visit can harvest their data and serve them ads, with the "internet not working" aspect often being a deliberate ploy designed to force users to lower settings so that the data harvesting and ad serving can take place.

    Lenovo hit the news recently after it was discovered they had shipped new laptops with "Superfish" pre-installed. It's purpose was to tamper with the internet as seen by users of Lenovo machines such that ads were served which users believed were coming from the websites visited. Superfish also allowed for a serious exploit that would have enabled a "man in the middle" attack. So, by trying to create a clandestine revenue stream for itself, Lenovo sold thousands of compromised machines, many of which would be connected to the internet. A successful hack of Superfish would have enabled someone to create a Botnet from Lenovo machines.

    Now, the FBI and other agencies ARE going after these Botnets, and occasionally we hear of one being shut down.

    It became clear to me earlier this year that another big botnet was running as my spam box suddenly started to receive 10x more crap than usual.

    This group's activities will come to an end when the botnet they are using gets shut down. They probably realise this, and may be stepping up their activities in the realisation that they have to make as much money as possible in the time they have left. The publicity may cause an increase in their activities because it alerts users, as well as the authorities, that a large number of machines have been hijacked. This may spur the authorities into acting more decisively, and may also inspire users to double check their own machines specifically for botnet infection. Usually, once the underlying malware is identified, free tools specifically designed to detect and destroy it are developed and distributed for free. The most recent major botnet lead to the identification of "Zero Access" as the underlying malware, and numerous tools were developed for it. One of my machines had it, and the first attempt to remove it failed, but it is gone now. My ISP sends "one of your machines is infected with......" type emails, and these have been confirmed by them to be genuine, rather than Phishing attempts. Many users may well be ignoring such warnings from their ISP because they fit the profile of a Phishing attack, so they get deleted rather than acted upon.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Apr 10, 2015
  5. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Whilst I don't entirely agree with Jack Mack's interesting view here, I have to admit that he makes compelling points when it comes to bankers and politicians, and their capacity for hypocrisy, dishonesty (think libor et al) and getting economies into serious trouble!
     
  6. Apr 10, 2015
  7. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Firstly, I agree with a lot of what you say but you misinterpreted my post. I didn't say Bitcoin was the problem at all. I said anonymity makes catching criminals harder and where in the past a payment mechanism for extortion could be traced, Bitcoin as I understand it can't be so it aids situations like this.

    Secondly, treat me and others with a tad more respect please. You have your opinions, I have mine but that doesn't give you the right to insult me, whether you understood what I was saying or not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
    5 people like this.
  8. Apr 10, 2015
  9. Matti

    Matti Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Business Development Tech
    Location:
    Sweden
    Sure you were veering off topic. I think that this post is written in a very condescending and rude way and not just against other forum members. The general remarks made regarding hard working people who work with our national, personal and company security just make me angry.

    The remark about the Germans is just foul.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Apr 10, 2015
  11. Fjellsame

    Fjellsame Experienced Member MM

    Occupation:
    Security
    Location:
    Norway
    Nevertheless, Bitcoins makes it much easier to do criminal acts linked to the Internet. Like the blackmails we see now and places like the silk-road ect.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Apr 10, 2015
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Governments seek to place needless restrictions on freedoms due to the "nanny state" philosophy. This only drives more people to look elsewhere for their freedom, and this is how we got to Bitcoin. Once up & running, the criminals decided to use Bitcoin as it was very hard to "nanny" by the state what people did with their own money, even if that was to choose to pay off the blackmailers.

    If there was less nannying by the state, there would be less demand for things like Bitcoin, where the freedom comes at a risk. With no policing, to whom do you turn if your Bitcoin account is hacked and drained? If there was less demand, Bitcoin would not be so useful for criminals as unlike a fiat currency, it is built entirely on trust within the Bitcoin using community.

    If anything needs regulating, it's the points of entry and exit for Bitcoin, the exchanges. Criminals in the end are wanting "clean" fiat currency from their Bitcoins, they are not there to be a part of the community, but to milk the system.

    If Bitcoin ends up being too tightly regulated, the freedom seekers will just move elsewhere, possibly Litecoin, which seems to be developing a growing following now that Bitcoin is seen as "mature".
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Apr 10, 2015
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    JackMack needs to read up on how many internet paedos and other vermin get caught, especially 'Operation Ore' via traceable credit card transactions. And frankly to suggest those whom agree with some traceability as willing cohorts to a NAZI-style ideology is plain insulting. :mad:
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Apr 10, 2015
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This only happens because the sites supplying the material seek to make money from it. If it wasn't for this, Operation Ore would have little chance of success.

    Bitcoin is not completely untraceable in any case, it's just much harder as the data isn't conveniently collected and stored by big banks as it is with credit card transactions, etc.

    Unlike banks, the Bitcoin blockchain can be downloaded by anyone, members of the public or the NSA/FBI. This is where the tracing can start. Everything can be found out about individual Bitcoin accounts and transactions other than the identity of the holder. Linking Bitcoin accounts with their holders can be achieved with the right level of determination, just like the security services can find out so much about people.

    It seems to me that the best people for the job are journalists, as they seem to be able to trace criminals on the run better than Interpol or the FBI.
     
  18. Apr 10, 2015
  19. JackMack

    JackMack Banned User - troll, flaming, being a dick

    Occupation:
    content writer
    Location:
    England
    Sanctimonious drivel which is irrelevant to everything I said
    I disagreed with Simmo and made my objections clear.
    At no point did I insult him as he suggests though he may have found my views insulting because I have confrontational writing style - you are welcome to dislike that but your servile pretensions of owning the moral high ground make me sick frankly.
    The remark about WWII Germany was pertinent to the idea that we should not blindly trust the establishment and shout down any opposition as subversive.
    I did not say that is who you or Simmo or anyone else are, I posted it rhetorically.
    Patriotism is not about blindly supporting your government it is about keeping that government honest and true to the values of your country.

    If people think controls are only there for our protection and should never be questioned then yes they have the same servile mentality that brings in the worse kind of tyranny - be insulted all you like it won't change the fact.
    As for paedophiles, well you may have noticed the establishment and its institutions is filled with them.
    You want to blindly trust paedophiles with our children and criminals with our laws or do you think we should base our trust on a little more than being conditioned to be servile to the system?
    As for the idea that Bitcoin is subversive and opens up the way for fraudsters while the establishment system is somehow honest and out to catch them - well it flies in the face of reality and reason but that is the sort of deep conditioning that is hard to break down.

    Let's take HSBC (though this is very true to some degree of all the leading world banks)
    Libor, fixing interest rates - meh.
    Advising wealthy clients on illegal tax evasion (not legal avoidance) measures - meh.
    Laundering billions in drug money - so what?
    Creating secret accounts (off the books) for;
    Dictators
    Arms dealers,
    Child trafficking ring
    Drug dealers
    and known terrorist groups.

    And did anyone go to jail? And what happened to the head of the bank who oversaw all this?
    Oh yes, Cameron made him a Minister. :notworthy

    but yeah trust the banking system and the government and make sure that nasty subversive Bitcoin is reigned in by them.
    Give them as much power as possible, they should spy on us 24/7, we might be terrorists after all!
    Hell I'm probably already on the extremists list for daring to use critical thinking and stating facts instead of being a sycophant and praising our mighty elite and leaders. :notworthy


    Now I will be sincere in an apology.
    I'm sorry for the derail of this important thread and will not respond again.
    Special apology to BetAt.
    I hope the criminals responsible are caught and brought to justice. I truly do.

    Otherwise to the forum. If you found my comments insulting then I'm sorry but I am not insulting you personally, just strongly disagreeing with your thinking and opinions. I don't know you as you don't know me.
    I find myopic views and servile sanctimonious tones insulting so I guess we're even.

    I'm not the bad guy and I'm sure you are very decent people too but don't shoot the messenger.:thumbsup:
     
    4 people like this.
  20. Apr 10, 2015
  21. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Can't make out if he's an anarchist or a fascist. Clearly applies little value to others' opinions, based on the premise of overestimating his own intelligence. Has to have the last word. Maybe run for Parliament?
     
    3 people like this.
  22. Apr 10, 2015
  23. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    You can have strong opinions without being rude and disrespectful but fair enough if that is your choice.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Apr 12, 2015
  25. ternur

    ternur A damn fine cup of coffee CAG webby mm3

    Occupation:
    Lawyer
    Location:
    Finland
    <offtopic>
    When reading JackMack's views, I found his points very well formulated (although his expression could be seen as little harsh towards others) and mostly pointing out a really crucial fact: the right to privacy. I strongly agree, that the "nothing to hide" -argument is a careless approach to continuously growing general surveillance of every single digital fingerprint of every user in any network or device.

    Who needs privacy? Why we have privacy legislation? It's mostly a safeguard that shields (or should shield) individuals from arbitrary control from public authorities. Should privacy be abolished because criminal behaviour can benefit from it?

    Of course privacy is, as it should be, limited or removed when there are legitime justifications for it. Criminal investigations for example.

    To reiterate: I found JackMack's post(s) mostly to the point. This doesn't make him an anarchist of a fascist. It makes him a realist.
    </offtopic>


    Regarding the topic of this thread: Kudos to BetAt for making this issue public. This kind of transparency is what is so often lacking in the gaming industry.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Apr 12, 2015
  27. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I've split these anonymity & right to privacy opinion posts out of the DDoS thread for 2 reasons: to avoid derailing the topic and also because it is potentially an interesting debate in it's own right.

    My feeling is that anonymity - like many good things - is open to abuse. You see it all over the web. Trolling and people behaving differently to how they would face-to-face and I strongly believe this is bad for society. By making people accountable for their actions, IMO you would have a much better world with people managing their relationships better.

    As far as Bitcoin goes: great idea but it's biggest advantage is also it's biggest disadvantage. If we want to live in a more secure world, we have to find ways of preventing criminals from being able to operate. I believe Bitcoin is a technological step forward but without a paper-trail it will be hard for it to be accepted at a regulatory level, which makes it a risky investment and potentially threatens it's long-term viability as a legitimate currency.

    And yes, like everyone else, I believe everyone has a right to privacy but they should be held accountable when they abuse that right.
     
    4 people like this.
  28. Apr 12, 2015
  29. SpinUk

    SpinUk Senior Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Marketing
    Location:
    London
    I think neither, it was more an Orwellian observation on the nature of power, where that power lies and the abuse of that power. History has proved this observation to be accurate without exception. Without proper checks and balances on institutions ("who's checking the checkers") then you always get abuse, it is human nature.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page