Casino Complaint Aladdin's Gold Casino locked my account and is refusing to pay

[vinylweatherman]

Honestly, when I saw the word student it meant just that. Whether they are attending highschool, college, a university, a student is a student no matter what grade.

Just my 2 cents.

LH

So why not leave it at just that, rather than try to "clarify" by listing a couple of common examples of institutions, and then expect players to interpret this to mean "ANY students".

By listing two institutions, they are narrowing the term so that it indicates that other categories of student ARE allowed to play. In fact, students still in normal schooling are MORE in need of protection than students who have made a choice to take further study even though they have the choice to quit education altogether. In the UK, it is also called "college", even though it is the equivalent of "gymnaseum", and often attached to a normal school as a "sixth form" as well as run on an independent site. Non university further education used to be called "college", but catered for the 18-21 age range, whereas the "sixth form" variant catered for ages 16-18, and was often used as a springboard to university. Now the term university can be used by these former colleges that catered to 18-21 years old, so the distinction has largely gone.

Ages 21 to 25 can create another problem, and this is related to post graduation studies. Here, the status can become blurred, are you still a student, or an employee of the university. Some post graduates often work to support undergraduates, even taking lectures and study groups on behalf of fully qualified academic staff who normally have a doctorate in the subjects they teach. Some post graduates pay for their further study, and do no work for the university, and in this case they are the same as undergraduate students when it comes to their means to pursue expensive hobbies.

Since this term is designed to protect 18 to 25 year olds from gambling beyond their means, the narrow focus on students also does no credit to CWC, as it fails to protect other groups who are arguably LESS equipped than students to gamble within their means, but who are NOT protected one bit by the current CWC policy on responsible gambling until it is too late.

Rather than try to work with this current term, why not broaden it's focus to require ALL 18 to 25 year olds to provide evidence of means before being allowed full access to the casino. Initial registrants in this age range could have their deposits strictly limited in volume pending an assessment of means. This would prevent irresponsible gambling right from the start, rather than having to clear up the mess retrospectively at first withdrawal. Whether student or not, every player would either be stuck with a tiny weekly allowance on total deposits unless they could show evidence of means, which would be a wge slip or other proof of income. As well as screening out the students, it would prevent other vulnerable groups from quickly getting out of their depth when they first start gambling online at the age of 18. Only when they reach 25 will these protections lapse in favour of the usual procedures for dealing with mature adults' desires to have their deposit and betting limits raised.
Such a change would also see an end to confiscation of winnings being used as a means to police the policy on responsible gambling, which would change the largely negative PR surrounding enforcement of this policy into something positive. It may even encourage other operators to take a more responsible approach, making the sob stories from older players less common (I won early, got sucked in,..... it has cost me my family, my house, etc....... if only someone had intervened earlier........).

There is hardly a rush to void bets and return deposits where players have destroyed their lives through gambling too much, here the argument presented is that they were "responsible adults", and could blame no-one but themselves for the mess, and shouldn't expect much sympathy, let alone their money back. This is NOT a specific case at CWC, but a case where a player lost "millions" at a well known UK bookie's online arm and who argued that they should have been protected better by the industry.

We also have many cases where players have requested their accounts be closed, yet operators really drag their feet, and some even refuse to carry out the request, and instead try to entice the player to change their mind through offering additional inducements to stay.

As a whole, there is a barn full of hypocrasy in the industry, and their enthusiasm for responsible gambling seems to depend on whether they stand to gain from a policy or not. CWC stand to lose out from the policy in general, but the way they have chosen to implement it via checking only at the first withdrawal and confiscating winnings of violaters puts profit in front of utilising the best and most effective (but more expensive) options of screening out students during the registration process so that they don't even get as far as violating the term with their first deposit, let alone their first withdrawal, whether they have read it (and tried to game the system) or not.

 

[ksech]

We can turn this into another 44 page thread, but the fact remains, the casino isn't going to relent.
Obviously, they don't see anything wrong with the way the term is written, and we can expect in a few months time this problem will evolve again because of it.

We as players, see the "trap" and can only do so much as warn other newbie members to steer clear of this group as long as they see fit to keep this term as it is written. I agree with VWM, if they are so righteous about "protecting" the student, then they should be doing this at registration, NOT when a withdrawal is requested.
'
CWC, rewrite the term. If you don't want to list institutions then make it inclusive, make the term read..." Students aged 25 or under enrolled in ANY educational institution", then there isn't any room for doubt...

 

[Nifty29]

So why not leave it at just that, rather than try to "clarify" by listing a couple of common examples of institutions, and then expect players to interpret this to mean "ANY students".

By listing two institutions, they are narrowing the term so that it indicates that other categories of student ARE allowed to play. In fact, students still in normal schooling are MORE in need of protection than students who have made a choice to take further study even though they have the choice to quit education altogether. In the UK, it is also called "college", even though it is the equivalent of "gymnaseum", and often attached to a normal school as a "sixth form" as well as run on an independent site. Non university further education used to be called "college", but catered for the 18-21 age range, whereas the "sixth form" variant catered for ages 16-18, and was often used as a springboard to university. Now the term university can be used by these former colleges that catered to 18-21 years old, so the distinction has largely gone.

Ages 21 to 25 can create another problem, and this is related to post graduation studies. Here, the status can become blurred, are you still a student, or an employee of the university. Some post graduates often work to support undergraduates, even taking lectures and study groups on behalf of fully qualified academic staff who normally have a doctorate in the subjects they teach. Some post graduates pay for their further study, and do no work for the university, and in this case they are the same as undergraduate students when it comes to their means to pursue expensive hobbies.

Since this term is designed to protect 18 to 25 year olds from gambling beyond their means, the narrow focus on students also does no credit to CWC, as it fails to protect other groups who are arguably LESS equipped than students to gamble within their means, but who are NOT protected one bit by the current CWC policy on responsible gambling until it is too late.

Rather than try to work with this current term, why not broaden it's focus to require ALL 18 to 25 year olds to provide evidence of means before being allowed full access to the casino. Initial registrants in this age range could have their deposits strictly limited in volume pending an assessment of means. This would prevent irresponsible gambling right from the start, rather than having to clear up the mess retrospectively at first withdrawal. Whether student or not, every player would either be stuck with a tiny weekly allowance on total deposits unless they could show evidence of means, which would be a wge slip or other proof of income. As well as screening out the students, it would prevent other vulnerable groups from quickly getting out of their depth when they first start gambling online at the age of 18. Only when they reach 25 will these protections lapse in favour of the usual procedures for dealing with mature adults' desires to have their deposit and betting limits raised.
Such a change would also see an end to confiscation of winnings being used as a means to police the policy on responsible gambling, which would change the largely negative PR surrounding enforcement of this policy into something positive. It may even encourage other operators to take a more responsible approach, making the sob stories from older players less common (I won early, got sucked in,..... it has cost me my family, my house, etc....... if only someone had intervened earlier........).

There is hardly a rush to void bets and return deposits where players have destroyed their lives through gambling too much, here the argument presented is that they were "responsible adults", and could blame no-one but themselves for the mess, and shouldn't expect much sympathy, let alone their money back. This is NOT a specific case at CWC, but a case where a player lost "millions" at a well known UK bookie's online arm and who argued that they should have been protected better by the industry.

We also have many cases where players have requested their accounts be closed, yet operators really drag their feet, and some even refuse to carry out the request, and instead try to entice the player to change their mind through offering additional inducements to stay.

As a whole, there is a barn full of hypocrasy in the industry, and their enthusiasm for responsible gambling seems to depend on whether they stand to gain from a policy or not. CWC stand to lose out from the policy in general, but the way they have chosen to implement it via checking only at the first withdrawal and confiscating winnings of violaters puts profit in front of utilising the best and most effective (but more expensive) options of screening out students during the registration process so that they don't even get as far as violating the term with their first deposit, let alone their first withdrawal, whether they have read it (and tried to game the system) or not.

I have to admire your motto Vinyl:

"There's nothing that can be said in 4 sentences that can't be said in 40"

Your keyboard must be wondering what it ever did to you.



Anyhoo.....

Bryan/Max - FORK PLEASE!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have to admire your motto Vinyl:

"There's nothing that can be said in 4 sentences that can't be said in 40"

Your keyboard must be wondering what it ever did to you.



Anyhoo.....

Bryan/Max - FORK PLEASE!

I have actually worn out the lettering on some of the keys, even though the keyboard still works. This is the second keyboard I have done this to. I have had the old Windows 98 PC for over a decade, you should see the keyboard on that

4 sentences should be enough, but it appears not in this case, as much of this was brought up last time, and so far CWC have not made the term say what it is supposed to mean, and players STILL fail to read the terms before pumping their money in.

I am sure that if every player read the terms first, some casinos would struggle to attract players, and this would FORCE them to make the terms more player friendly.

 

[Nate]

I have actually worn out the lettering on some of the keys, even though the keyboard still works. This is the second keyboard I have done this to. I have had the old Windows 98 PC for over a decade, you should see the keyboard on that

4 sentences should be enough, but it appears not in this case, as much of this was brought up last time, and so far CWC have not made the term say what it is supposed to mean, and players STILL fail to read the terms before pumping their money in.

I am sure that if every player read the terms first, some casinos would struggle to attract players, and this would FORCE them to make the terms more player friendly.

Sorry for the derail - Out of curiosity - IF you are asked a question face to face, do you naturally go so in-depth as well ... or are your answers short and sweet?

Nate

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry for the derail - Out of curiosity - IF you are asked a question face to face, do you naturally go so in-depth as well ... or are your answers short and sweet?

Nate

If it is something that interests me, I naturally go in depth too when face to face. Last night, I spent half an hour saying "no" to my profligate niece

Ask me face to face about the weather, and half an hour later you will wish you hadn't

I will now give you my top 100 examples of when I have gone into depth when asked a relatively simple question face to face:-

1) When I was 2 years old Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii*&%^$££%$^%^%^%

.... Enough! This is vinyls keyboard I am now officially on strike. I demand new gold plated keys, a non contributory pension scheme, and early retirement. Only then will I agree to return to work.

 

[Seventh777]

Pmsl....

 

[Nate]

If it is something that interests me, I naturally go in depth too when face to face. Last night, I spent half an hour saying "no" to my profligate niece

Ask me face to face about the weather, and half an hour later you will wish you hadn't

I will now give you my top 100 examples of when I have gone into depth when asked a relatively simple question face to face:-

1) When I was 2 years old Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii*&%^$££%$^%^%^%

.... Enough! This is vinyls keyboard I am now officially on strike. I demand new gold plated keys, a non contributory pension scheme, and early retirement. Only then will I agree to return to work.

LOL - You probably WOULD hahha.

 

[chayton]

lol, great answer Vinyl!

BTW I just have to say, I love this...a little teasing and a clever answer and everyone laughs and nobody gets pissed off or takes anything personally. More like how things should be IMO.

 

[petr1]

Wow, they actually changed the terms.

This is what it says now:

"1. The Player is at least 18 years of age or has reached the legal age of maturity in his/her jurisdiction, whichever is greater. Full time students aged 25 or under are not permitted to play in the Casino. "


Now they should just accept my withdrawal.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Wow, they actually changed the terms.

This is what it says now:

"1. The Player is at least 18 years of age or has reached the legal age of maturity in his/her jurisdiction, whichever is greater. Full time students aged 25 or under are not permitted to play in the Casino. "


Now they should just accept my withdrawal.

You are still a full time student under 25.

This clarification removes doubt due to the name of the institution involved, just as suggested. Pity they didn't do this when this was FIRST suggested.

No amount of clarification would have helped you though, because you didn't read the terms before you played.

There may be some debate about the meaning of "full time", but there is no doubt that it applies to you, and would apply to anyone who spent so long at their studies that they didn't have enough free time available to pursue a full time job. Full Time really means that you study every day, rather than do some form of "evening classes" a couple of times a week alongside your main job.

The next task is to get CWC add a student checkbox in the registration process, and screen out any players who enter "yes" for being a student, and who give a date of birth that makes them under 25. The only way then to accidentally play would be to lie on the registration form, making the defence of "I didn't expect this trap" not particularly believable.

Every student who is a member of CM should by now be aware of this rule, as will those who do some basic research before playing at a given casino.

 

[Nifty29]

You are still a full time student under 25.

This clarification removes doubt due to the name of the institution involved, just as suggested. Pity they didn't do this when this was FIRST suggested.

No amount of clarification would have helped you though, because you didn't read the terms before you played.

There may be some debate about the meaning of "full time", but there is no doubt that it applies to you, and would apply to anyone who spent so long at their studies that they didn't have enough free time available to pursue a full time job. Full Time really means that you study every day, rather than do some form of "evening classes" a couple of times a week alongside your main job.

The next task is to get CWC add a student checkbox in the registration process, and screen out any players who enter "yes" for being a student, and who give a date of birth that makes them under 25. The only way then to accidentally play would be to lie on the registration form, making the defence of "I didn't expect this trap" not particularly believable.

Every student who is a member of CM should by now be aware of this rule, as will those who do some basic research before playing at a given casino.

Agree.

The OP has played word games right from the off and knows damn well the rule applied to them. It's ~$200 ......get a grip.

The problem with the checkbox is that RTG will have to do it which will no doubt cost money, because AFAIK all the RTG registration pages are the same. It seems a pointless investment given that so few players have been affected, and then only via their own ignorance or laziness in not reading the terms to begin with. I mean, what's next? A checkbox for "I don't already have an account" and "I've never charged back anywhere" and "I really did read the terms before clicking accept". It could go on and on.

People just need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop expecting to be spoon fed what 99.9% of us can work out for ourselves.

 

[chayton]

I'm glad they changed the term, that will hopefully save a bunch of hassle in the future. And maybe they'll also be doing the student check on the first verification phone call now too?

Personally I think that affiliates who promote CWC should be adding the 'no student' info to their sites as well since most people get to a casino through an affiliate site.

 

[ksech]

petrr1, I wouldn't hold my breath on hoping they are going to change their mind about paying you. Plain and simple, you broke the rule, didn't bother to read the rule until it was too late, or whatever and have now turned this singular term into a 12 page thread. At least CWC has changed the wording of the term, so I guess something "better" did result from all of this.

Thank you for listening CWC , maybe this will avoid future debates on what you interprete a student as being.

As long as T&Cs require a law degree to understand the intrepretation of each term, you will almost always have players who will simply check that little box, and then claim ignorance when they think they are being cheated by a casino. Sure , casinos can start asking for proof of "are you a student", "are you a responsible gambler", "did you really read the T&Cs before you checked the little box"... As Nifty29 stated, the list could go on and on. Where does player responsibility start? When the win and the withdrawal are all okay, then everything is all peaches and cream. Let the casino deny a withdrawal, then the players start screaming rogue, cheat, rigged, whatever.

If there weren't players out there trying to scam the casinos, there wouldn't be any need for some of these ridiculous T&Cs, just my opinion. And wouldn't it be lovely to just be able to go join a casino, read a few plainly written T&Cs (which even a 5th grader could understand-and some of the questions on THAT game are difficult, but I digress!), deposit your money and play! When it came time to withdraw, you submit your docs, and have your funds in a timely manner (unless of course you happen to live in the US).

 

[The Dude]

...Personally I think that affiliates who promote CWC should be adding the 'no student' info to their sites as well since most people get to a casino through an affiliate site.

https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/

I think anyone who fails to read the terms and conditions and clicks "I agree" should watch South Park's "HumanCentipad" episode. You will never click "I agree" without reading the terms in full ever again.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[takethemoney]

To the OP,

Time to write it off and move on. Rules is Rules and you broke it. I do believe you will make better choices in the future, but you simply cannot change the past. Get over it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

petrr1, I wouldn't hold my breath on hoping they are going to change their mind about paying you. Plain and simple, you broke the rule, didn't bother to read the rule until it was too late, or whatever and have now turned this singular term into a 12 page thread. At least CWC has changed the wording of the term, so I guess something "better" did result from all of this.

Thank you for listening CWC , maybe this will avoid future debates on what you interprete a student as being.

As long as T&Cs require a law degree to understand the intrepretation of each term, you will almost always have players who will simply check that little box, and then claim ignorance when they think they are being cheated by a casino. Sure , casinos can start asking for proof of "are you a student", "are you a responsible gambler", "did you really read the T&Cs before you checked the little box"... As Nifty29 stated, the list could go on and on. Where does player responsibility start? When the win and the withdrawal are all okay, then everything is all peaches and cream. Let the casino deny a withdrawal, then the players start screaming rogue, cheat, rigged, whatever.

If there weren't players out there trying to scam the casinos, there wouldn't be any need for some of these ridiculous T&Cs, just my opinion. And wouldn't it be lovely to just be able to go join a casino, read a few plainly written T&Cs (which even a 5th grader could understand-and some of the questions on THAT game are difficult, but I digress!), deposit your money and play! When it came time to withdraw, you submit your docs, and have your funds in a timely manner (unless of course you happen to live in the US).

This is part of the debate. CWC clearly feel that adult responsibilty starts after graduation if you are a student, not when you are 18. On the one hand, CWC are saying that students cannot be considered "responsible adults" able to make their own choices about gambling at online casinos, but need to have this choice taken out of their hands until they graduate. On the other hand when it comes to reading the terms, students are all of a sudden "fully responsible" for everything they do. If CWC simply used the age of majority and let ALL adults make their own choices, this situation would not exist, and does not exist at other casinos.

Many non students and over 25's also just tick the box without actually reading the terms, but unless they do something other than normal recreational play, this lapse is not really going to matter.

Since CWC can also set weekly deposit limits on individual accounts, they have another way to police responsible gambling, and could simply set the limits very low for all under 25's, and raise them only after they provide evidence of means to play at a higher level. A student would simply not be given a higher limit until they show proof of graduation. $50 a week might be a good starting point as this will have almost all players contacting CS to get it raised. Only low rollers would be happy to stick to such a limit.

The high profile problem gambling cases I have read about do NOT involve students, but working adults who get in too deep, and start to steal from their employers to cover the losses and chase the big win that fixes everything.

 

[Nifty29]

https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/

I think anyone who fails to read the terms and conditions and clicks "I agree" should watch South Park's "HumanCentipad" episode. You will never click "I agree" without reading the terms in full ever again.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Omg that was absolutely revolting.....but strangely amusing.

 

[Tengil]

But the truth is still that he didnt break any rule.

Whatever he read them or not is irrelevant, same as if CWC meant something else. Shows how "classy" they are when it took years to rewrite the rule.

And everyone knows why they have it. There is no moral involved.

 

[ksech]

But the truth is still that he didnt break any rule.

Whatever he read them or not is irrelevant, same as if CWC meant something else. Shows how "classy" they are when it took years to rewrite the rule.

And everyone knows why they have it. There is no moral involved.

Why do you feel he didn't break any rule? He ADMITTED he was a student. I agree 100% the rule sucks (even though they changed the wording). It would be the same as you going and playing on a bonus (not reading the T&Cs for the bonus),winning, the casino denies you your winnings. Then admitting you didn't read the T&Cs you come to the forum and bitch, but you feel the casino should pay you anyways because it's THEIR fault YOU didn't read the T&Cs.

I'm not sticking up for CWC by any means (hell I don't even play online any more, so what do I know), but are they the ONLY casino who has "traps" set in their T&Cs? Maybe we should start a thread listing ALL the casinos who have these little "gems" to deny a player their winnings so players can avoid them. Would make playing online much easier when you know which casinos have sandtraps to ensnare the unwary player...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Why do you feel he didn't break any rule? He ADMITTED he was a student. I agree 100% the rule sucks (even though they changed the wording). It would be the same as you going and playing on a bonus (not reading the T&Cs for the bonus),winning, the casino denies you your winnings. Then admitting you didn't read the T&Cs you come to the forum and bitch, but you feel the casino should pay you anyways because it's THEIR fault YOU didn't read the T&Cs.

I'm not sticking up for CWC by any means (hell I don't even play online any more, so what do I know), but are they the ONLY casino who has "traps" set in their T&Cs? Maybe we should start a thread listing ALL the casinos who have these little "gems" to deny a player their winnings so players can avoid them. Would make playing online much easier when you know which casinos have sandtraps to ensnare the unwary player...

It would be quicker to list the few that DON'T.

This is why a read of the terms is a must. Even if you don't understand the legalese, you are going to spot the signs of these traps and maybe not play if the wording makes you feel uneasy. Casinos resorting to abuse of such "trap terms" will find fewer players go on to play, rather than find out the hard way when they have winnings confisacted for something they didn't spot.

The LAST thing players should be trusting is the email offers of fantastic "free cash" for joining, and assurances of "no strings attached". Many of these "no strings" offers, when the small print is examined, have enough string in them to rig a pirate's galleon

 

[petr1]

Why do you feel he didn't break any rule? He ADMITTED he was a student. I agree 100% the rule sucks (even though they changed the wording). It would be the same as you going and playing on a bonus (not reading the T&Cs for the bonus),winning, the casino denies you your winnings. Then admitting you didn't read the T&Cs you come to the forum and bitch, but you feel the casino should pay you anyways because it's THEIR fault YOU didn't read the T&Cs.

I'm not sticking up for CWC by any means (hell I don't even play online any more, so what do I know), but are they the ONLY casino who has "traps" set in their T&Cs? Maybe we should start a thread listing ALL the casinos who have these little "gems" to deny a player their winnings so players can avoid them. Would make playing online much easier when you know which casinos have sandtraps to ensnare the unwary player...

So not reading the terms should be the reason for voiding my winnings even if I didn't break any of the rules?

Please tell me, which part of this rule did I break?

"Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino."

I'm not enrolled in College, University or any equivalent education institution.

Yeah, someone might say that I should use some common sense when reading the rule. However, do you think CWC would use common sense if they could void winnings by just taking the rules precisely?

 

[vinylweatherman]

So not reading the terms should be the reason for voiding my winnings even if I didn't break any of the rules?

Please tell me, which part of this rule did I break?

"Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino."

I'm not enrolled in College, University or any equivalent education institution.

Yeah, someone might say that I should use some common sense when reading the rule. However, do you think CWC would use common sense if they could void winnings by just taking the rules precisely?

They consider Gymnaseum as "equivalent". In terms of the UK system, gymnaseum is the same as 6th form college, and is where you get A levels before entering university. It is also considered part of the education system that all children have to go through from the age of 5, although until recent proposals, it was an optional two years between the ages of 16 to 18.

In this respect, the reason you are not enrolled in a university, college, or equivalent institution is because you are STILL AT SCHOOL, even if half way through your last year.

The other players got nowhere arguing, so unless you are going to take them to court, you are not going to get paid.

You will have to convince a court that this term is "unfair", and thus cannot be applied. If you win this argument, this one term will be struck out, and the rest will stand.

Not reading the terms is no defence in court, they will still be deemed to be active whether you read them or not.

 

[Tengil]

They consider Gymnaseum as "equivalent". In terms of the UK system, gymnaseum is the same as 6th form college, and is where you get A levels before entering university. It is also considered part of the education system that all children have to go through from the age of 5, although until recent proposals, it was an optional two years between the ages of 16 to 18.

In this respect, the reason you are not enrolled in a university, college, or equivalent institution is because you are STILL AT SCHOOL, even if half way through your last year.

The other players got nowhere arguing, so unless you are going to take them to court, you are not going to get paid.

You will have to convince a court that this term is "unfair", and thus cannot be applied. If you win this argument, this one term will be struck out, and the rest will stand.

Not reading the terms is no defence in court, they will still be deemed to be active whether you read them or not.

They had written in Swedish högskola and universitet not gymnasium. And Swedish is an official language in Finland. The same goes for the German term were only Hochschule and Universität were mentioned not Gymnasium.

If they were too lazy to check it up why even accept players from for example Finland in the first place?

The other players got nowhere arguing because the majority here backs up the casino without even understanding the point made. Reading comprehension seems to be a lost art.

 

[ksech]

The other players got nowhere arguing because the majority here backs up the casino without even understanding the point made. Reading comprehension seems to be a lost art.

You're kidding right? 44+ pages in the other thread of CM members AGREEING this was an ambiguous term and that the player should have been paid. I think maybe some members need to learn when to throw in the towel and quit beating the dead horse. And I'd like to know how the forum members really have ANY sway with what the casino decides to do in the end. If reading comprehension is a lost art, so is responsibility and rationalization....

 

[The Dude]

For what it's worth - an Abitur (diploma from a Gymnasium) can cover a lot of the first-year general education requirements of an undergraduate degree. So the last year is the US equivalency of a junior college.

Most people assume that 18 year olds are no longer in high school, that's my guess why "High School" or "Gymnasium" wasn't included. You're a student, and they don't allow students.

They are doing you a favor if you haven't realized it yet. How many people play their winnings back and keep making deposits?? A kid in school with no full time work should not be throwing their money at an online casino - you may be 18, but you're still a teenager.

Take your money and spend it elsewhere is my suggestion.

 

[Nifty29]

You're kidding right? 44+ pages in the other thread of CM members AGREEING this was an ambiguous term and that the player should have been paid. I think maybe some members need to learn when to throw in the towel and quit beating the dead horse. And I'd like to know how the forum members really have ANY sway with what the casino decides to do in the end. If reading comprehension is a lost art, so is responsibility and rationalization....

I would love to know what you just said ksech, but my reading comprehension is non-existent.....

Ah what the hell. I'll thank you anyway!

 

[The Dude]

...
The other players got nowhere arguing because the majority here backs up the casino without even understanding the point made. Reading comprehension seems to be a lost art.

I'm not the majority; I'm just one guy - and me thinks my reading comprehension is pretty good. I know exactly what you are saying, you are saying that this student should be paid because the casino didn't specify the school he is in. I get it. Their "no student" clause should only apply to students of a "College or University". High school students, preschoolers and kindergarteners are exempt from this rule.

Or is my comprehension all dicked up?

 

[chayton]

Anyone have a fork?

 

[ksech]

Hey chayton...does that little dragon of yours breath fire cause I think this thread needs a torch taken to it (I think we passed the fork stage a few pages ago...)

 

[chayton]

Hey chayton...does that little dragon of yours breath fire cause I think this thread needs a torch taken to it (I think we passed the fork stage a few pages ago...)

lol, but then we would have missed the Nifty, Vinyl and Nate show! That was worth the price of admission!

 

[ksech]

lol, but then we would have missed the Nifty, Vinyl and Nate show! That was worth the price of admission!

It most certainly was!!! The thread SHOULD have died there, it would have made a beautiful ending!

 

[petr1]

They consider Gymnaseum as "equivalent". In terms of the UK system, gymnaseum is the same as 6th form college, and is where you get A levels before entering university. It is also considered part of the education system that all children have to go through from the age of 5, although until recent proposals, it was an optional two years between the ages of 16 to 18.

In this respect, the reason you are not enrolled in a university, college, or equivalent institution is because you are STILL AT SCHOOL, even if half way through your last year.

The other players got nowhere arguing, so unless you are going to take them to court, you are not going to get paid.

You will have to convince a court that this term is "unfair", and thus cannot be applied. If you win this argument, this one term will be struck out, and the rest will stand.

Not reading the terms is no defence in court, they will still be deemed to be active whether you read them or not.

As spiderlegz said, the Swedish version of the rule says "högskola" and "universitet". I know damn well what "högskola" means and Gymnasium is not part of it.

Don't believe me? Please compare these two images:

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You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So my argument still stands. I'm not enrolled in university, college, högskola or any equivalent. I didn't break the rules.

 

[Tirilej]

What Spiderlegz said is wrong. In Sweden it's first Gymnasium and then University. Högskola is just an old word for university. Gymnasium is for students age 15-19. You are a student whatever the school is called in Finland.

 

[petr1]

What Spiderlegz said is wrong. In Sweden it's first Gymnasium and then University. Högskola is just an old word for university. Gymnasium is for students age 15-19. You are a student whatever the school is called in Finland.

I don't really understand your point. Spiderlegz said "They had written in Swedish högskola and universitet not gymnasium. And Swedish is an official language in Finland."

Högskola is still used word in Finland. Yrkeshögskola means Polytechnic and Högskola means both Unviersity and Polytechnic.

 

[The Dude]

I don't really understand your point. Spiderlegz said "They had written in Swedish högskola and universitet not gymnasium. And Swedish is an official language in Finland."

Högskola is still used word in Finland. Yrkeshögskola means Polytechnic and Högskola means both Unviersity and Polytechnic.

You're still a full time student under the age of 25. Quit wasting our time with this. Thank you.

 

[petr1]

You're still a full time student under the age of 25. Quit wasting our time with this. Thank you.

Wow. I thought we were through this phase.

"Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University" =/= "Full time students under the age of 25 or under."

You don't have to waste your time in this thread. Actually, it would be easier for me if you didn't because I'm tired of explaining the same things again and again.

 

[chayton]

Wow. I thought we were through this phase.

"Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University" =/= "Full time students under the age of 25 or under."

You don't have to waste your time in this thread. Actually, it would be easier for me if you didn't because I'm tired of explaining the same things again and again.

Now you're just being rude. We've heard your argument over and over and over. Ad nauseum. It doesn't change the facts.

 

[The Dude]

"Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University" =/= "Full time students under the age of 25 or under."

That's your opinion. You are still a student under the age of 25 - and the casino does not want your business. You want to split hairs because your specific school level wasn't specified, well that's your prerogative - but it's not going to get you anywhere I'm afraid. The casino considers you a student, you consider yourself a student, and I think that a majority of this forum feels that you could be defined as a student.

So what's the point? That you are in a Gymnasium and not a college - that's the point. When you read that term when signing up, you should have asked them if High School was included in the "no students" term. You didn't and that's on you.

Check out Humancentipad and you won't fail to read the terms anywhere again

 

[ksech]

Wow. I thought we were through this phase.

"Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University" =/= "Full time students under the age of 25 or under."

You don't have to waste your time in this thread. Actually, it would be easier for me if you didn't because I'm tired of explaining the same things again and again.

Wow, this is like the guest telling the host to leave... (Bryan must be in a really good mood or he got a dandy dose of patience for Christmas)

 

[The Dude]

Well, I'm forkifying this one. 14 pages and the OP is still a student

Any objections please PM me or one of the moderators and we'll consider reopening the thread. Other than that, we're done here.

 

[The Dude]

<sigh> The OP has requested to to have this thread reopened the thread. He still feels he should be paid.

So against my better judgement I am reopening the thread, and I've given him one post to convince not just me, but the members of the forum why he should be paid his winnings. I'll relook at this on Monday.

 

[Nifty29]

<sigh> The OP has requested to to have this thread reopened the thread. He still feels he should be paid.

So against my better judgement I am reopening the thread, and I've given him one post to convince not just me, but the members of the forum why he should be paid his winnings. I'll relook at this on Monday.

You should have trusted your better judgement....

 

[petr1]

Why should I get paid?

This is what the rule said when I registered:

1. The Player is at least 18 years of age or has reached the legal age of maturity in his/her jurisdiction, whichever is greater. Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.

Please note the part " who are enrolled in a College or University".

---

At the moment I'm studying in Gymnasium which called as "lukio" in Finland.

Description of "lukio" according to

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:

In Finnish school system, a 3-year school that prepares the students for academic studies (grades 10 to 12), corresponds the senior high school (US) and high school in many other places.

The Final Exam, which every student in "lukio" or "Gymnasium" takes in order to graduate, is called "Abitur". Abitur or "Ylioppilastutkinto" in Finnish is one of "Admission tests to colleges and universities" according to

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This proves that "lukio" or "Gymnasium" is NOT even equivalent of University or College. If we take the Swedish version of the rule, we can see that the word "college" has been replaced with word "högskola" which means University and Polytechnic in Finland. Swedish is an official language in Finland.

Gymnasium/lukio is an upper secondary school, University and Polytechnic are higher education institutions.

---

If we take the rule precisely, the rule shouldn't apply on me. Please remember especially this part from the rule: "who are enrolled in a College or University". How could this rule apply on me when I'm not even a student in College, University or any equivalent educational institution?

Common sense?

Me: It's not just different name.
Assistant: no is a lower form of education by what you have said
Me: Yes.
Me: So University/College is not same as Gymnasium
Assistant: so you agree then i do not understand the basis of your argument
Me: What? Read the rule again please.
Me: "who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted"
Assistant: i think you need to and apply some common sense in your thinking

Alright. Someone might say I should use some common sense with the rule. Let me ask you, why should I?

The rule has absolutely nothing to do with player protection. Why do they ask if you are a student ONLY after you are requesting your first withdrawal?

Let's think of a hypothetical situation. A 25-year old University student deposits $500 and he is not aware of the student rule. At no point does he have a chance to win anything because all his possible winnings would be eventually voided. Now, he loses his whole deposit and decides not to return on the casino ever again.
Don't you think this is a bit problematic? Risk-free money for the Casino.

The rule lacks all logic and common sense, so please don't ask me to use "common sense" with the rule.

---

Interpretations of the rule

1. University and especially College students often live in student dorms thus usually sharing the same IP address. This could cause some problems.

2. The meaning of being enrolled in a College or University means exactly same as the meaning of being enrolled in ANY educational institution.

Which one of these two make more sense? With the 1st option the rule could be taken presicely, as how it's written.

The 2nd option is just plain stupid, let me demonstrate:
If a casino prohibited German players from playing, would it suddenly mean all players from the whole Europe? Exactly as prohibiting University/College students from playing suddenly means all students from all kind of educational institutions.

Obiviously CWC thinks the 2nd one is the only right interpretation.

---

Now, why should I have understanding towards the casino and just let them take all my winnings? If they meant something else with that rule then they should've written it in a better way.

Please comment only after you've read the whole post carefully. I'm not going to explain this again.

PS. I want to apologize my bad attitude towards Bryan.

 

[chuchu59]

Petr,.

If I am not mistaken you hadnt read the term in question before you registered and started playing. Now that you have won and the casino cites the term to cease business with you , you suddenly argue as to what constitutes 'college' though this probably never crossed your mind when you started playing. Whether the term 'gymnasium' means college or a place where you exercise does not matter because you are a full-time student. FYI, college in Hong Kong is equivalent to a secondary school. Every country has a different term for these institutions but its the intrinsic meaning that counts. Strictly speaking, if I were to vote I would say nay to CWC giving you the winnings though I am racking my brains as to how they did not pop the 'full-time student' question to you on registration but of course that's another issue.

Meanwhile, I applaud Bryan for reopening this thread at the op's request thus giving him a final chance to redeem himself despite his poor attitude to the forum host.

 

[Nifty29]

Why should I get paid?

This is what the rule said when I registered:

1. The Player is at least 18 years of age or has reached the legal age of maturity in his/her jurisdiction, whichever is greater. Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.

Please note the part " who are enrolled in a College or University".

---

At the moment I'm studying in Gymnasium which called as "lukio" in Finland.

Description of "lukio" according to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

:


The Final Exam, which every student in "lukio" or "Gymnasium" takes in order to graduate, is called "Abitur". Abitur or "Ylioppilastutkinto" in Finnish is one of "Admission tests to colleges and universities" according to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This proves that "lukio" or "Gymnasium" is NOT even equivalent of University or College. If we take the Swedish version of the rule, we can see that the word "college" has been replaced with word "högskola" which means University and Polytechnic in Finland. Swedish is an official language in Finland.

Gymnasium/lukio is an upper secondary school, University and Polytechnic are higher education institutions.

---

If we take the rule precisely, the rule shouldn't apply on me. Please remember especially this part from the rule: "who are enrolled in a College or University". How could this rule apply on me when I'm not even a student in College, University or any equivalent educational institution?

Common sense?

Alright. Someone might say I should use some common sense with the rule. Let me ask you, why should I?

The rule has absolutely nothing to do with player protection. Why do they ask if you are a student ONLY after you are requesting your first withdrawal?

Let's think of a hypothetical situation. A 25-year old University student deposits $500 and he is not aware of the student rule. At no point does he have a chance to win anything because all his possible winnings would be eventually voided. Now, he loses his whole deposit and decides not to return on the casino ever again.
Don't you think this is a bit problematic? Risk-free money for the Casino.

The rule lacks all logic and common sense, so please don't ask me to use "common sense" with the rule.

---

Interpretations of the rule

1. University and especially College students often live in student dorms thus usually sharing the same IP address. This could cause some problems.

2. The meaning of being enrolled in a College or University means exactly same as the meaning of being enrolled in ANY educational institution.

Which one of these two make more sense? With the 1st option the rule could be taken presicely, as how it's written.

The 2nd option is just plain stupid, let me demonstrate:
If a casino prohibited German players from playing, would it suddenly mean all players from the whole Europe? Exactly as prohibiting University/College students from playing suddenly means all students from all kind of educational institutions.

Obiviously CWC thinks the 2nd one is the only right interpretation.

---

Now, why should I have understanding towards the casino and just let them take all my winnings? If they meant something else with that rule then they should've written it in a better way.

Please comment only after you've read the whole post carefully. I'm not going to explain this again.

The term "college" in MY country refers to HIGH SCHOOL which is what YOU claim to be in. Hence, you would be considered to be in COLLEGE if you were a player from my country. What you're saying is that because the casino didn't exactly state your precise educational institution in YOUR native language then it doesn't apply to you, and hence a Hugh school student from one country IS allowed to play but a high school student from another country ISN'T allowed to play. It is HERE that the common sense part comes in, but since it puts you in the wrong you just ignore it.

Oh, and where do you get off telling people when they can or can't comment? Get a grip.

The casino explained it is a legal requirement in the UK for the casino to provide responsible gambling which includes banning students. It's nothing to do with dorms or IPs or whatever.

Anyway, the interpretation of the term is down to the CASINO and not the player. In fact, you agreed that management decisions are final when you created your account.

See, you can't have it both ways. First, you say the term clearly doesn't relate to you, but then you say its ambiguous and open to interpretation....so which is it?

If it was open to interpretation as you claim, then why didn't you clarify things with the casino before playing? I'll answer that.....you didn't READ the terms in the first place, so its YOUR problem which YOU could have prevented by doing what you AGREED to do when creating your account i.e. to read and accept the terms and conditions.

Nothing new from the OP just the same old wordsmithing.

 

[ksech]

Now you want technical, okay...
By YOUR definition or rather Wiktionary's definiton...

In Finnish school system, a 3-year school that prepares the students for academic studies (grades 10 to 12), corresponds the senior high school (US) and high school in many other places.

You wouldn't be able to gamble BECAUSE grades 10-12 in the US are USUALLY ages 15-18. And unless you are 21 YOU CAN NOT GAMBLE!!!!!

 

[Mousey]

Please comment only after you've read the whole post carefully. ....

Why? What I/we think or say here has no bearing on the casino's decision.

I'm not going to explain this again.

?? Your position has already been made clear. The casino's decision is clear.

This same situation has been beaten and battered and mauled page after page in other threads as well as this one.

I vote for the Return of the Fork.

 

[chayton]

sigh...from page SEVEN of this thread - please look at the bolded parts.

By your argument if they had the term separate and obvious on registration you still wouldn't have thought it applied to you because of your interpretation of what the term actually meant. You admitted that you didn't read the term before playing, if you HAD read it on signup, would you have thought that it didn't apply to you and signed up and played anyhow? Or would you have asked support first?

I wouldn't have taken the risk because if for some reason they didn't understand that Gymnasium isn't same as College or University.

After my account was closed I tried to figure out why does the rule mention only College and University students. My first thought was that it must be because especially College students often live in (student) dorms sharing the same IP which would cause trouble.

So in your own words, if you had read the bloody term in the first place, you would have been reluctant to play because the student rule might apply to you. But since you didn't see the term and it caught you by surprise now you're saying that the rule definitely doesn't apply? I'm sorry but you're really grasping. I'm with Mousey - you've already told your story. The casino has made their decision. Game over.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The term "college" in MY country refers to HIGH SCHOOL which is what YOU claim to be in. Hence, you would be considered to be in COLLEGE if you were a player from my country. What you're saying is that because the casino didn't exactly state your precise educational institution in YOUR native language then it doesn't apply to you, and hence a Hugh school student from one country IS allowed to play but a high school student from another country ISN'T allowed to play. It is HERE that the common sense part comes in, but since it puts you in the wrong you just ignore it.

Oh, and where do you get off telling people when they can or can't comment? Get a grip.

The casino explained it is a legal requirement in the UK for the casino to provide responsible gambling which includes banning students. It's nothing to do with dorms or IPs or whatever.

Anyway, the interpretation of the term is down to the CASINO and not the player. In fact, you agreed that management decisions are final when you created your account.

See, you can't have it both ways. First, you say the term clearly doesn't relate to you, but then you say its ambiguous and open to interpretation....so which is it?

If it was open to interpretation as you claim, then why didn't you clarify things with the casino before playing? I'll answer that.....you didn't READ the terms in the first place, so its YOUR problem which YOU could have prevented by doing what you AGREED to do when creating your account i.e. to read and accept the terms and conditions.

Nothing new from the OP just the same old wordsmithing.

Legal requirements in the UK are irrelevant as CWC are not licensed within the EU. Even if they were, there is no specification in these guidelines that say students over 18 years of age have to be prevented from gambling. This is purely an internal policy of the company, and the buck should NOT be passed to "government" just because the policy has caused some bad PR.

In terms of responsible gambling guidance, the methodology would be to place limits on the amounts that can be deposited, and be on the look out for gamblers going "on tilt" and increasing deposit volumes after a bad session to chase the losses.

The only viable way forward for the OP is to take legal advice and see whether this interpretation of the term can be overturned in a civil claims court. The OP was certainly enrolled in "Gymnaseum", and it will be a matter of whether the clause "college or university" covers this part of the educational system in general, or is specific to institutions that are near exact equivalents.

The OP could also consider the merits of this rule. What if they had played at a different casino (one happy to accept students), but never won. Could they have continued to play and lose, or would this have lead them into financial difficulties as they got in deeper, leaving them relying on chasing down a big win just to dig themselves out of a hole, or even having to cancel plans for further study in order to earn back the lost funds.

Every winner is balanced by a larger number of losers. Some players are lucky, others have long runs of terrible luck, and there are threads here that are essentially tales of woe from players who have had bad luck for a long while, and can't understand what happened to "their turn" for a big win.