Casino Complaint Aladdin's Gold Casino locked my account and is refusing to pay

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petr1

Banned User
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Location
Finland
I was requested to make a call for Aladdin's Glub Casino to verify my account so they could process my withdrawal. Customer servant asked me if I'm a full time student or not, to which I answered yes. Now my account is closed due to this.

I decided to re-check the Terms and there was this odd rule you don't often see on other casinos:

1. The Player is at least 18 years of age or has reached the legal age of maturity in his/her jurisdiction, whichever is greater. Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.

It simply says, players must be at least 18 years old (or has reached the legal age of maturity in his/her jurisdiction) and full time college OR university students are not allowed to play in the Casino.


First of all, what is Aladdin's Gold Casino's definition of "full time student"?

Next year, I will be prepairing 3 months for my final exams, 2 months in school, 1 month at home, am I a full time student for them?

Second, the rule should only apply to college and university students because that what it says. Doesn't it?

According to them, no. It applies to all students.

Here's a small piece of the live chat conversation:
Me: But doesn't that rule only apply to College and University students?

Me: Because it clearly says so.

CS#1: yes, well college and university comes under education?

Me: In Finland, there's no such thing as "college". So how can I know if I'm in college by your definition?

CS#1: well you referred to them as college and university students so I'm sure you had some understanding to what they were

CS=customer servant

Oh really, so if College and University are both (different kind of) schools, I must interpret that in this case it means all kinds of schools?

After all, does it matter if you are full time student or not? Because for them, it seems full time student = all students, just like college and university = all schools.

Here are some quotes from the live chat conversations:

CS#2: Im sure we can yes if we needed to, at the end of the day, you did not read the terms of the casino, if you would have done then you would have known we did not accept students. it does not matter that is says college or university

CS#1: if you haven't graduated then your still undergoing education and will not be allowed to play
So now I have to be graduated to be allowed to play, even if I wasn't a full time student, what ever the definition for that is.


I told them (and even got a permission to release the conversations) that I might post this case on Casinomeister to get 'a second opinion' because for me, this thing seems just too ridiculous. (No, I was not threatening them!)

One of the customer servants thanked me for that, so it would make the rules more clearer for other players. I wonder why won't they do that themselves? I can think a thousand different ways to write the rule in a 'clearer way'.

CS#2: right, you can do that, it will help other players understand the rules of the casino, i will make it a little clearer for them, thanks but we do not except students, please read the terms and conditions and they won't make the same mistake as you, thanks very much

Me: Really?

Me: You keep twisting the rule, saying it includes all students.

Me: When it clearly doesn't say that.

Me:
"a bit clearer"

Me: You could make it a lot clearer

Me: Just simply write no students allowed.

--
If you must know what kind of student I am, here's the answer:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
I'm over 18 years old and I have almost graduated from my current school. I have 3 months left before the final exams, everything before that from now is really just preparation.

So, this is my sad story. :) I had a ~200 dollar withdrawal pending there and I guess it's now void. Do I have any chances here? What do you think?
 

bb28

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
I'm afraid you are sol because it is their terms and we all are responsible for reading and abiding by them.

On the other hand, I think they should abolish that particular term because it seems quite silly adding that in if you are of legal age.

I hope things work out for you.
 

Markus

Banned User - Violation of forum rule 1.10 - playe
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Location
Berlin
Full time students aged 25 or under who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted to play in the Casino.
This rule makes no sense to me. From my perspective it has nothing to do with player protection. I do understand that it's necessary that a person must reach a certain age, before that person is allowed to gamble, to ensure that this person gambles responsible. But why are students not allowed to gamble within their means? Is this rule implying that students are more immature than non-students? A person who is unemployed, social benefit claimant and aged 18-25 may gamble but a student aged 18-25 may not? This makes no sense.
 

Realitybitez

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
New Zealand
I have to agree with you. It makes no sense. If they're old enough to gamble why the restrictions? They have every right to throw away their money the same as the rest of us:cool:


This rule makes no sense to me. From my perspective it has nothing to do with player protection. I do understand that it's necessary that a person must reach a certain age, before that person is allowed to gamble, to ensure that this person gambles responsible. But why are students not allowed to gamble within their means? Is this rule implying that students are more immature than non-students? A person who is unemployed, social benefit claimant and aged 18-25 may gamble but a student aged 18-25 may not? This makes no sense.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
Redbush is right, this was gone over in depth in that other thread. The 'student' term may not make sense to the rest of us but that's the term at all the casinos in the CWC group.

So to the OP, sorry but it IS in the terms and you didn't read them. On the bright side, you're only out a couple hundred bucks in winnings and the casino will probably refund your deposits so at least you won't be out of pocket anything.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I closed all my ClubWorld accounts due to this stupid rule. I knew that the problem would pop up again, and sure enough. Stupidest "rule" ever written into a casino's terms, and absolutely zero to do with player protection.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/club-world-usa-proof-of-full-time-employment.40969/

44 page thread, when you have the time OP. Sorry you got caught out. If you like RTG software, play at Inetbet, where they have no such rule, and where you'll be paid in under 24 hours, 365 days a year.
 

P.V.

Senior Member
webmeister
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Location
Turn around...
I closed all my ClubWorld accounts due to this stupid rule. I knew that the problem would pop up again, and sure enough. Stupidest "rule" ever written into a casino's terms, and absolutely zero to do with player protection.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/club-world-usa-proof-of-full-time-employment.40969/

44 page thread, when you have the time OP. Sorry you got caught out. If you like RTG software, play at Inetbet, where they have no such rule, and where you'll be paid in under 24 hours, 365 days a year.

I agree that the OP is in fact a student in this case, it's clear. Not gonna get paid per the T & C at this site.

The problem is it's clearly discriminatory. You won't see this type regulation within the U.S., nothing in Nevada poker regulations recently approved has this type of legislation.

If you're of age, you've provided all doc's to prove your identity then you can play at the poker site etc..

Does a bar say, oh you're old enough to drink but you're a student so you can't drink? That would be discrimination.

Nevada Gaming Commission poker regulations says nothing about students as long as you're of age to play at a site.

The student rule is a joke, how about a rule for dead beat dads that don't pay child support!

Either you're of age to gamble online or you're not. Why would anyone support such a rule?
 

J.B.

Dormant account
webmeister
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Location
Internet
My guess as to why they have this rule is because some colleges use the same IP address for multiple computers within the same dorm hall and/or computer lab, making this rule a logical extension of the standard "one account per IP address" rule.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
My guess as to why they have this rule is because some colleges use the same IP address for multiple computers within the same dorm hall and/or computer lab, making this rule a logical extension of the standard "one account per IP address" rule.

That was my original thought on this idiotic rule, but that's not the reason (as 'clarified' by their rep in that other mile long thread).
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Club World Group lost all credibility with me when this issue last popped up. I honestly can tell you that they ONLY have their own interests at heart. They use the term to enforce non-payment of winnings but have never proven that ALL Students who lost were reimbursed. I don't think they would even bother to audit their players for the purpose of refunding them.

I like to let dead dogs lie, but unfortunately this is a no win situation - they are one of the most stubborn groups and don't have any discretionary skills.

Nate
 

petr1

Banned User
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Location
Finland
I do agree that it is a stupid rule HOWEVER it is in their T&C so they have their back covered.

If you take the rule word for word, it should only apply on full time college or university students aged 25 or under. So in fact this rule should not apply on me as I'm not studying a college or university.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
While many of us may agree with the OP (see the original thread in Redbush's link), we are not in control of his cashout. This term is not buried deep in their rules.

I think an additional checkbox for "I am not a student" when signing up might be in order though, since it is such an unusual term, unique to CW Group.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
If you take the rule word for word, it should only apply on full time college or university students aged 25 or under. So in fact this rule should not apply on me as I'm not studying a college or university.


The problem is in the wording. Club World are UK based (except for their servers), so have worded this term to how things work in the UK. They have complicated matters by going into the additional detail of "who are enrolled in a college or university). THIS is what causes much of the confusion, as it suggests the rule only applies to SOME students under 25, when it is meant to apply to ALL students under 25 who study "full time", which means they don't have a paying occupation that beings in a "full time" wage. Part time work outside of study hours does NOT count as an occupation that would make the studies "part time".

The rule opens itself to all kinds of complications, and in one case a student got paid because he was able to show he was on a "gap year" at the time, yet another who played after graduating from college at the start of summer, but before taking up a post graduate course that autumn was NOT paid, even the only difference was that one was a "gap year", and the other a "gap 3 months". The argument presented in the second case was that because he started at a DIFFERENT college, he was NOT a student at the first college after graduating, nor was he a student at the second until he turned up for "fresher's week" to begin studies.

This is why it was suggested to get rid of the rule altogether, but protect students by limiting the amount they could deposit until they left their studies.

The fact that NO protection was put in place for what could arguably be MORE vulnerable groups did them no credit.

After great discussion, the clause " under 25 years of age" was added to clear confusion over whether "mature students" who returned to full time study after a first career could play.

This is the ONLY known group with such a rule. The rest simply have the "one account per email, computer, address, etc" rule, which effectively bans students from playing from their college/university address.

It is also 1) in the terms, and is hard to miss.

They can only determine whether someone is a student during verification, and had you answered "no", and presented a passport instead of a student ID card, they would never have known. It is likely they have plenty of students playing, but they have read the terms, and realise that the only way they can tell if a player is a student is by asking them, or getting a student ID card sent in for document verification.

In your case, you final exams are 3 months away, so you are STILL a full time student, even though your course is over and you are just preparing for exams.

As generally predicted, this DID happen again.

One compromise they could consider is to freeze an account until graduation, rather than confiscate winnings, but keep the deposits of losing students. Once having graduated, (and proving it), students could have their accounts unfrozen, and carry on from where they left off. This would also allow them to argue that LOSING students needn't be refunded their losses, as they too would have their accounts frozen, and released upon graduation.

Having winnings frozen in this way would REALLY protect these students because they would have the money to pay off debt, or set themselves up after graduation, rather than spending it on partying, or even at other casinos.

An alternative would be to require ALL players under 25 to be pre verified before depositing. This way they could find out who is a student before they have a dispute on their hands over winnings, and could say "not now, but come back after you have graduated".
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
It seems to me that the players who have an issue like this are the ones who didn't read the terms in the first place - as Vinyl said, no doubt those students who did read the terms and signed up anyhow could just lie if asked, it's only those who don't know it would be an issue to be a student (and who say they are) are the ones who end up in this predicament.

It would be easy to incorporate a student checkbox on signup like Jazzy suggested, and prescreening is another good idea - it would also be very easy to do. All the Club World Casino group phone you or pop up a window for you to phone them on your first deposit anyhow to verify your info and the amount you deposited etc. At that time the rep could check the player's age, if they're under 25 ask them if they're a student, if they are, boom - close the account and refund the deposit.

Personally I don't really 'get' this term, but there are other casinos that have rules like "if you're from a certain country then your WR on bonuses is 100x more." To be discriminated against because a bunch of fraudsters live in the same country as you isn't fair either.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
It seems to me that the players who have an issue like this are the ones who didn't read the terms in the first place - as Vinyl said, no doubt those students who did read the terms and signed up anyhow could just lie if asked, it's only those who don't know it would be an issue to be a student (and who say they are) are the ones who end up in this predicament.

It would be easy to incorporate a student checkbox on signup like Jazzy suggested, and prescreening is another good idea - it would also be very easy to do. All the Club World Casino group phone you or pop up a window for you to phone them on your first deposit anyhow to verify your info and the amount you deposited etc. At that time the rep could check the player's age, if they're under 25 ask them if they're a student, if they are, boom - close the account and refund the deposit.

Personally I don't really 'get' this term, but there are other casinos that have rules like "if you're from a certain country then your WR on bonuses is 100x more." To be discriminated against because a bunch of fraudsters live in the same country as you isn't fair either.

It works the other way too, and when CASINOS face this problem they go to some lengths to argue that THEY shouldn't be judged by the actions of their peers. Recently, the Tropica rep came here to argue that the blanket roguing of ALL Rival white labels simply because SOME of them have been inept, rogue, sneaky, etc was unfair.

A similar situation exists with some software brands, with Playtech and RTG operators bearing the brunt of blanket discrimination simply because these two softwares have a habit of atttracting to rogue operators due to weak or non existent vetting on the part of the software supplier.

The same can be said of licensing jurisdiction, with the choice of jurisdiction alone sometimes being enough to assume the worst of a new start up casino.


If operators want players to leave this mindset behind, and judge individual operators on individual merit, they should treat players the same way, and presume innocence until checks on individual players show something suspicious. This is likely to involve more checking up front, rather than waiting for the first withdrawal.

Provided they are open and transparent, I don't think using an industry wide database should be too much of a problem provided individual players have the right to be sent a copy of all the data hald about them as they do under UK and EU law with respect to any other company keeping personal data. Such a database could allow a quick background check to take place as soon as an account is registered, and then select players with odd profiles for full pre verification, whilst leaving the majority to have their verification performed after the first deposits, or at first withdrawal. This would be a compromise solution to the argument that pre verification of EVERY player is unpopular with many, and leads them to drift to outfits that just let them play straight away.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Vinyl.....I think you're making this way too complicated than it actually is.

The student term, although IMO it is silly, is there in plain English for all to see. It's not hidden or disguised. Anyone reading the terms would see it right away. The OP said they weren't aware of the clause because "other casinos don't have it" which means they didn't read the terms, which in turn means the fault lies with them.

The issue of the validity of the term itself is irrelevant here and requires a seperate discussion. The only issue is whether or not they broke it, and it is clear that they did.

The part about "college or university" is, as others have said, a UK example. It is not reasonable to expect the casino to list every possible country-specific name for specific educational institution.....in fact it is ridiculous. A reasonable person would accept the phrase as encompassing all forms of education available to persons between 18-25 in the country in which they reside. The OP states there is no "college" in Finland, bit I'm sure that doesn't mean there isn't an equivalent....in fact, there must be or the OP wouldn't be studying...??. I've no doubt that Finland uses a different name for it, but it still boils down to post-secondary education and any reasonable person knows it.

I'm also sure that, if the casino was offering better bonuses or freebies for "college and university" students, the OP would have insisted he IS one. Like the player in the other thread who presented and described himself as a student, only to then insist he wasn't when the term (that he had neglected to read) was enforced.

The OP said they were a student, and they obviously are a student of a post-secondary institution. Stupid term. Correct application.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
If you take the rule word for word, it should only apply on full time college or university students aged 25 or under. So in fact this rule should not apply on me as I'm not studying a college or university.

Just to jump in real quick - and then I'm outta here :p

You're in "Gymnasium" - that's what it's called in Germany, not sure what it's called in Finland. In other words, you're in High School. Even though the casino assumes that most people have graduated from High School by the age of 18, you're still a student. There was another thread that dealt with this last year, not sure where it is, but it's about a guy who tried to convince everyone that being a High School/Gymnasium student didn't apply, but it did. Should have read the terms.
 
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