Casino Complaint Aladdin's Gold Casino locked my account and is refusing to pay

[petr1]

Yes, but had you read the rules before playing, then you would have known this rule was there, however ambiguous. You could have asked for clarification and wouldn't be in this predicament now.

Whether anyone agrees with the rule or its meaning is a moot point. Casinos, whether this particular one, or every other one on the internet, have the right to put in what ever rules they want and interpret them anyway they want to. When you check the T&C box you are agreeing to that.

Just a curiousity question, have you PM'd the Rep here?

I don't agree. If casinos had the right to interpret their rules in anyway they want to, they could almost practically lie to their customers if they wanted to.

And yes, I've PM'd CW's Rep.

 

[chayton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me like it would be a risk-free way to play. If I deposit and win, I tell them I'm not a student - if I deposit a bunch of times and lose, I simply make a small withdrawal and then tell them I'm a student and I get all my deposits back.

 

[LaHutti]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me like it would be a risk-free way to play. If I deposit and win, I tell them I'm not a student - if I deposit a bunch of times and lose, I simply make a small withdrawal and then tell them I'm a student and I get all my deposits back.

lol....I would LOVE to see anyone post here, that they got as much as 3 cents of their deposits back for being a student.
Please post, if anyone managed that one !

 

[chayton]

lol....I would LOVE to see anyone post here, that they got as much as 3 cents of their deposits back for being a student.
Please post, if anyone managed that one !

I remember reading that they did. Most of those 'students' aren't around the forum anymore, but maybe Bryan would know?

 

[ksech]

I can't remember if it was ever answered, but adults who had life changes (loss of job, career changes, etc) who decided to return to school, were they exempt from this clause?

Errr, maybe it was...*having another one of those stupid senior moments again* I think I remember asking if , being 51 years old, I wished to return to school to change careers if this would put me in the category as a full time student. I think Tom answered it would and that I wouldn't be able to play at CWC. Fudge, now I need to go back and reread that stupid thread again.

So, the age thing wasn't relevant, it was simply a "student" thing...

 

[chayton]

I can't remember if it was ever answered, but adults who had life changes (loss of job, career changes, etc) who decided to return to school, were they exempt from this clause?

Errr, maybe it was...*having another one of those stupid senior moments again* I think I remember asking if , being 51 years old, I wished to return to school to change careers if this would put me in the category as a full time student. I think Tom answered it would and that I wouldn't be able to play at CWC. Fudge, now I need to go back and reread that stupid thread again.

So, the age thing wasn't relevant, it was simply a "student" thing...

It's changed to "under 25 and enrolled..." now I think.

 

[chuchu59]

Chu,

I don't remember if there is a full-time student box but you do have to check the box that asks if you have read the T&Cs and agree to them. Plus by his own admission, he told them he was a student.

Should CWG address this issue more in depth, I believe so. But I don't run the casino. As the saying goes, it is what it is. Leason learned. Read the T&C's in depth before playing. If you don't understand them, ask.

Annie,

In excluding full-time students CWC is playing the moral responsibility card. It follows that they should, when accepting new registrations, place a barrier for this category of players and ask them to check a box to this effect. The fact that they havent done so makes me wonder whether they are waiting to pounce on those who didnt read the terms and won giving them a convenient excuse to confiscate winnings. If they wish to exclude full-time students so be it but they should be able to pick these out on registration. If the players deliberately checked the wrong box the casino can then use the ts and cs as a reason not to pay.

 

[chayton]

I'm wondering if the OP could post here and say whether they got their deposit refunded...?

 

[takethemoney]

I'm wondering if the OP could post here and say whether they got their deposit refunded...?

I'm sure the deposit was refunded, as should be with any prior deposits as well. This is a credible casino and I'm confident the deposit(s) were refunded.

 

[maxd]

In excluding full-time students CWC is playing the moral responsibility card. ....

Sorry to contradict Chu but that's not quite the full story. If the player is a UK resident -- and yes, I know that may not apply in the OP's case -- then CWC has legal responsibilities that have to be respected. I could dig up the references on that but if you remember the previous student case I was strongly opposed to CWC's "interpretation" of the case until I found out that it was based on legal advice and precedent in UK law. That makes it a legal issue not a moral one. As to how this applies, if at all or in any way, to non-UK residents I have no knowledge.

 

[chuchu59]

Sorry to contradict Chu but that's not quite the full story. If the player is a UK resident -- and yes, I know that may not apply in the OP's case -- then CWC has legal responsibilities that have to be respected. I could dig up the references on that but if you remember the previous student case I was strongly opposed to CWC's "interpretation" of the case until I found out that it was based on legal advice and precedent in UK law. That makes it a legal issue not a moral one. As to how this applies, if at all or in any way, to non-UK residents I have no knowledge.

Max, even if we are talking about legal responsibilities here there is no reason why CW did not require a player to declare whether he is a full-time student on registration. Same case as with a player's age once the birth date is registered as being below the legal age, the registration should fail and no bets should be accepted. To come to these lengths and then disqualify a player using the ts and cs as a shield is not right IMO.

 

[petr1]

Max, even if we are talking about legal responsibilities here there is no reason why CW did not require a player to declare whether he is a full-time student on registration. Same case as with a player's age once the birth date is registered as being below the legal age, the registration should fail and no bets should be accepted. To come to these lengths and then disqualify a player using the ts and cs as a shield is not right IMO.

If I hadn't won, would've I ever got my deposit back? No. I'm sure there are students who have made a deposit(s) but never won anything and yet CWC is keeping their money. They are literally stealing their money because at no point do they have a chance to win anything. This isn't right.

Actually, they don't even have the Terms as their 'shield' in my case. Rules should be taken precisely so it's fair for everyone. This casino group shouldn't be on the accredited list.

 

[petr1]

As I'm waiting for a response from their email department and CW's Rep, here are some live chat conversations. I have a feeling they are trying to ignore me.

Me: It clearly and only lists college and university.
Me: It's your mistake and you allowed a loophole in that rule. I shouldn't be the one who has to pay for it.
Me: There was same kind of issue with this rule almost a year ago. You had a chance to fix it but you didn't.
Assistant: same applies, is even more reason why cannot play if you are not even in college or university. just because one country has different name for education the basis of the rule is the same. this is not some secret loophole you have found and the decision will not be reversed
Me: It's not just different name.
Assistant: no is a lower form of education by what you have said
Me: Yes.
Me: So University/College is not same as Gymnasium
Assistant: so you agree then i do not understand the basis of your argument
Me: What? Read the rule again please.
Me: "who are enrolled in a College or University are not permitted"
Assistant: i think you need to and apply some common sense in your thinking
Me: Common sense? That rule has no common sense.
Me: 18-year old unemployed non-student is allowed to play but 25-year old university student is not?
Me: So please explain me that.
Me: Rules need to be taken precisely. Only that way it's fair.
Assistant: 18 year old would be requested to provide payslips to confirm they can fund their account legimately before they would be able to play. this is to confirm they are no full time student as well as ourselves promoting responsible gambling
Assistant: you are in education therefore you are a student again i do not see what you base your argument on

Me: So even if I was right, there's nothing I can do because the decision is final?
Assistant: correct
Me: So do you agree that if the rule was taken very precisely I would be right?
Assistant: no
Me: Why is that?
Me: Remember IF we are taking the rule very precisely. Obiviously that is not the case at the moment.
Assistant: again read through the chat
Me: You said I should apply some common sense to my thinking.
Me: But if the rule was taken precisely, there would be no need for that.
Assistant: education is education no matter what you call it

 

[chuchu59]

Petr,

Experience tells me that there is nothing to come out from conversations with live support. Try sending a pm to their forum rep Tom though I think their stance on this issue is already very clear though I cant understand why they continue to no nothing about it with the only course of action being confiscation of winnings after one has played. Shouldnt action have been taken to prevent students from player right from the start?

Dont hound the live chat staff anymore. They are just frontline staff and have no authority to reverse decisions especially over policy issues.

 

[maxd]

... there is no reason why CW did not require a player to declare whether he is a full-time student on registration.

No arguments there, I was under the impression that's already how it was done.

 

[petr1]

Just what I expected. CW's Rep is saying pretty much the same thing as everyone else that I should've known that University and College means all kind of schools. I'm still wondering why the hell shouldn't rules be taken precisely? If they meant all students, then they could just write the rule in this way for example: "All full-time students aged 25 or under are not permitted to play on our casino." Simple as that.

I've also sent them 2 emails, one over a week ago and one on Satuday. No answers.

 

[chayton]

Just what I expected. CW's Rep is saying pretty much the same thing as everyone else that I should've known that University and College means all kind of schools. I'm still wondering why the hell shouldn't rules be taken precisely? If they meant all students, then they could just write the rule in this way for example: "All full-time students aged 25 or under are not permitted to play on our casino." Simple as that.

I've also sent them 2 emails, one over a week ago and one on Satuday. No answers.

Even then someone will show up saying "I only go to school for 4 days a week, so I'm not a full time student." and then there will be this argument about what constitutes 'full-time' and the whole mess will start again.

Personally I think the Club World group should just implement a policy that any player who is 25 year old or younger needs to be preverified before being allowed to deposit. It would save a whole lot of hassle for them as well as the players that don't read the terms or don't understand what they mean.

BTW petrr1 - you did get your deposit(s) refunded already? It's pretty important for other players to understand that your deposits weren't 'stolen' because of this term.

 

[petr1]

Even then someone will show up saying "I only go to school for 4 days a week, so I'm not a full time student." and then there will be this argument about what constitutes 'full-time' and the whole mess will start again.

Personally I think the Club World group should just implement a policy that any player who is 25 year old or younger needs to be preverified before being allowed to deposit. It would save a whole lot of hassle for them as well as the players that don't read the terms or don't understand what they mean.

BTW petrr1 - you did get your deposit(s) refunded already? It's pretty important for other players to understand that your deposits weren't 'stolen' because of this term.

You are right. However, this case is not about interpreting the meaning of "full-time" or anything like that. This is just about should the rule be taken precisely or not.

IMO, they can't just say "Oh, even though it says only university and college students, we meant all students". Hypothetically, it's like if there was a rule about not allowing German players and then they would say "Oh, even though it just says Germany, we meant the whole Europe."

And yes, Club World's Rep refunded my deposit. If I hadn't won, I would've never got my deposit back. One more reason why they should at least add a question (e.g Are you a student?) to the registration form.

 

[chayton]

You are right. However, this case is not about interpreting the meaning of "full-time" or anything like that. This is just about should the rule be taken precisely or not.

IMO, they can't just say "Oh, even though it says only university and college students, we meant all students". Hypothetically, it's like if there was a rule about not allowing German players and then they would say "Oh, even though it just says Germany, we meant the whole Europe."

And yes, Club World's Rep refunded my deposit. If I hadn't won, I would've never got my deposit back. One more reason why they should at least add a question (e.g Are you a student?) to the registration form.

By your argument if they had the term separate and obvious on registration you still wouldn't have thought it applied to you because of your interpretation of what the term actually meant. You admitted that you didn't read the term before playing, if you HAD read it on signup, would you have thought that it didn't apply to you and signed up and played anyhow? Or would you have asked support first?

 

[petr1]

By your argument if they had the term separate and obvious on registration you still wouldn't have thought it applied to you because of your interpretation of what the term actually meant. You admitted that you didn't read the term before playing, if you HAD read it on signup, would you have thought that it didn't apply to you and signed up and played anyhow? Or would you have asked support first?

I wouldn't have taken the risk because if for some reason they didn't understand that Gymnasium isn't same as College or University.

After my account was closed I tried to figure out why does the rule mention only College and University students. My first thought was that it must be because especially College students often live in (student) dorms sharing the same IP which would cause trouble.

 

[Nifty29]

I wouldn't have taken the risk because if for some reason they didn't understand that Gymnasium isn't same as College or University.

After my account was closed I tried to figure out why does the rule mention only College and University students. My first thought was that it must be because especially College students often live in (student) dorms sharing the same IP which would cause trouble.

You already took the biggest risk possible......you didn't read the terms before you played

 

[chayton]

I wouldn't have taken the risk because if for some reason they didn't understand that Gymnasium isn't same as College or University.

After my account was closed I tried to figure out why does the rule mention only College and University students. My first thought was that it must be because especially College students often live in (student) dorms sharing the same IP which would cause trouble.

For CWC to have to name every kind of educational institution in the world in that term is impossible. I agree that they should have a better system in place to keep students from depositing in the first place - but in this case you didn't read the terms, if you had you wouldn't have played, so how can you blame the casino? In my opinion, you should just let it go. It wasn't that big of a cashout, you got your deposit back, all you're really out is a bit of time you spent playing and writing this thread.

It's only the Club World group who has this student rule, there are lots of other RTG casinos to play at. And once you're no longer a student, then I'm sure Club World would be glad to have you back.

BTW, where I come from a gymnasium is a building for playing sports, so it seems kinda funny to think of it as educational.

 

[petr1]

For CWC to have to name every kind of educational institution in the world in that term is impossible. I agree that they should have a better system in place to keep students from depositing in the first place - but in this case you didn't read the terms, if you had you wouldn't have played, so how can you blame the casino? In my opinion, you should just let it go. It wasn't that big of a cashout, you got your deposit back, all you're really out is a bit of time you spent playing and writing this thread.

It's only the Club World group who has this student rule, there are lots of other RTG casinos to play at. And once you're no longer a student, then I'm sure Club World would be glad to have you back.

BTW, where I come from a gymnasium is a building for playing sports, so it seems kinda funny to think of it as educational.

Even if I didn't read the terms (well, I did check them quickly), it shouldn't be the reason for confiscating my winnings. Instead of naming every kind of educational institution they could just say "Full-time students are not allowed to play."
Why should I give up when I haven't broken the rules? They have had a lot of time to clarify the rule and yet they have done nothing for it.

The only question we should be discussing is, did I break the terms? If you can find a rule that I did break, please post it here and explain which part of it I did break. The part that I broke has to be written to the rule because I have only agreed to those rules when I registered.

 

[Nifty29]

Even if I didn't read the terms (well, I did check them quickly), it shouldn't be the reason for confiscating my winnings. Instead of naming every kind of educational institution they could just say "Full-time students are not allowed to play."
Why should I give up when I haven't broken the rules? They have had a lot of time to clarify the rule and yet they have done nothing for it.

The only question we should be discussing is, did I break the terms? If you can find a rule that I did break, please post it here and explain which part of it I did break. The part that I broke has to be written to the rule because I have only agreed to those rules when I registered.

Yes, you did break the terms.

You are enrolled in the EQUIVALENT of Uni and College. In my country, College is another name for High School, so high school students from my country would be banned.....but you're saying that high school students in your country would be fine because its called something different?

Give me a break.

Move along people.....nothing to see here.....please disperse....

 

[petr1]

Yes, you did break the terms.

You are enrolled in the EQUIVALENT of Uni and College. In my country, College is another name for High School, so high school students from my country would be banned.....but you're saying that high school students in your country would be fine because its called something different?

Give me a break.

Move along people.....nothing to see here.....please disperse....

You are wrong. Gymnasium isn't equivalent of University and College.

Read this:

You are correct that the rule doesnt strictly apply to you but then again Club World Group isnt a good group, decent at best.

For the records the term in Swedish which is an official language in Finland:
1. Spelaren är minst 18 år, eller har uppnått myndighetsålder. Heltidsstuderande som är inskriven vid en högskola eller ett universitet, är ej tillåtna att spela i kasinot.

And in German if Bryan is interested:
1. Der Spieler ist mindestens 18 Jahre alt oder hat das in ihrem/seinem Gerichtsbereich geltende gesetzliche Mündigkeitsalter erreicht. Das höhere Alter ist gültig. Vollzeitstudenten, die an einer Hochschule oder Universität immatrikuliert sind, ist es nicht gestattet, im Kasino zu spielen.


There really isnt a single reason why anyone should "allow" them to steal your winnings. You (the casino) cant twist the rules so that they always suit you.
Or you can, in the wonderful world of online casinos.
They could easily make the rule read "any full-time student" or similar.

Thanks, this just proves my point.

The word "högskola" (or "korkeakoulu" in Finnish) means higher education (University and Polytechnical). (

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)
Gymnasium is an upper secondary school (

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) which is before university and "polytechinal".

Also...

All Gymnasium students have to accomplish

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to be able to graduate.

According to Wikipedia Abitur is one of "Admission tests to colleges and universities".