Affiliates with integrity

[lojo]

This is a sister thread to "Outing Rogue Affiliates"

I went against my own premise of first sending a personal message, giving the webmaster time to audit his/her sight, and then outing them in the case of Mojo - and I want to publically apologize to Mojo for that.

I understand that each business person must do their own due diligence and follow their own gut and conscience in determining who to partner with. I also am aware that I don't know much.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I've learned a lot lately about 'cookie stuffing', affiliate 'tools', etc. and the more I learn about the business of being an affiliate, the more I'm convinced of the need for the good affiliates to apply pressure on others in their industry to only present viable, solid casinos to players.

Please read Casinomeister's response in the 'Rogue Affiliate' thread https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/outing-rogue-affiliates.21256/

Though my actions might have had some affect (no webmaster that I contacted refused to address the issue) I'm going to leave it to affiliates to police their own from here on out. And as I said in the other thread, and have stated numerous times; I sincerely want all casinos who struggle with player satisfaction and fairness to simply mend their ways and become truly successful.

With that, my work on the issue is done.

 

[lots0]

No doubt about it, the casino affiliate business is a very very very dirty business, almost as dirty as politics. (this comes from someone who has been an casino affiliate for years).

Often the affiliate (or group of affiliates) that seem the most respectable in public are often the very worst of the worst in their private(affiliate) actions.

I understand that each business person must do their own due diligence and follow their own gut and conscience in determining who to partner with.

That is correct.
However in the very secret and private world of casino affiliates, if you don't have a 'program' you have a hard time telling who is the bad guy and who is the good guy.

I'm going to leave it to affiliates to police their own from here on out.

Affiliates policing their own.... Now that is truly funny.

What I find amazing about this whole casino affiliate thing is that in a business that is all about trust, there exist a group of people that are so ethically challenged.


***added***
For those of you that are upset about the US ban on online casinos... I think you can lay a very large part of the responsibility for that ban in the laps of these ethically challenged affiliates that have given the online casino business such a bad name all around the world, with email spamming and referring players to dishonest casinos/poker rooms and all the other dirty little affiliate tricks that piss people off.

 

[GaryWatson]

This is a sister thread to "Outing Rogue Affiliates"
I understand that each business person must do their own due diligence and follow their own gut and conscience in determining who to partner with. I also am aware that I don't know much.

No doubt about it, the casino affiliate business is a very very very dirty business, almost as dirty as politics. (this comes from someone who has been an casino affiliate for years).

Often the affiliate (or group of affiliates) that seem the most respectable in public are often the very worst of the worst in their private(affiliate) actions.

Affiliates policing their own.... Now that is truly funny.

What I find amazing about this whole casino affiliate thing is that in a business that is all about trust, there exist a group of people that are so ethically challenged.

It becomes even more difficult to find a good program when you find these ethically challenged affiliates are working within the affiliate programs, making the policing a rogues asset.

 

[USA2112]

To each their own, but I always try to advertise what is considered as a trusted casino for players. How I make these dicissions is base on visiting sites that I feel I can trust. Like the casinomeister and other watch dog sites. Some might think this is about making a few points :baby: "nope not the case" just a fact and it works for me. It's always better to visit sites that for one, been around longer and two, provide what you feel is good information to help make certain dicisions.

One of my bigger concerns however is how much I can trust certain casino affiliate programs. I keep a close eye on what goes on with my players and I must say I am quite suspicious with some of the casinos I am affiliated with on whether the programs are registering players stats correctly. But thats a subject of it's own...

 

[lots0]

...I always try to advertise what is considered as a trusted casino for players.

Most of the good affiliates do the same thing.

Over in the sister thread aksana made a statement that I think bears repeating.

...I know that it's good what I'm doing. My main role is to prevent players from rogue casinos.

I think this what good affiliates have evolved to become, a source of information for players so the players can protect themselves from the rogue casinos.

Problem is so many casinos and affiliate programs are going Rogue right now it is very hard to keep all the bad casinos separated from the very very few good casinos.

 

[BingoT]

To each their own, but I always try to advertise what is considered as a trusted casino for players. How I make these dicissions is base on visiting sites that I feel I can trust. Like the casinomeister and other watch dog sites. Some might think this is about making a few points :baby: "nope not the case" just a fact and it works for me. It's always better to visit sites that for one, been around longer and two, provide what you feel is good information to help make certain dicisions.

One of my bigger concerns however is how much I can trust certain casino affiliate programs. I keep a close eye on what goes on with my players and I must say I am quite suspicious with some of the casinos I am affiliated with on whether the programs are registering players stats correctly. But thats a subject of it's own...

Well put USA2112

And the main thing is we all help each other if anyone gets in a bind with any place they may join.But I do have to say most of it is pure greed to some.

 

[USA2112]

Problem is so many casinos and affiliate programs are going Rogue right now it is very hard to keep all the bad casinos separated from the very very few good casinos.

I agree it is getting hard.

But I do have to say most of it is pure greed to some.

I had mentioned in the other thread how some affiliates think its just a big money tree. Well, just don't let greed get in the way and it can be alright and you can earn a little bit. But, for those affiliates that don't care about their players and whether they get burned at a casino will eventually burn down their own tree.

 

[RobWin]

It becomes even more difficult to find a good program when you find these ethically challenged affiliates are working within the affiliate programs, making the policing a rogues asset.

Gary thats funny man...is that the PC term nowadays for the Rogue Affiliate representing the Rogue Casino....

I'm just curious who all else is a member here that also represents Casinomeisters List of Rogue Casinos on their website...off to research

 

[BingoT]

affiliates that don't care about their players and whether they get burned at a casino will eventually burn down their own tree.

I have to agree 101% on the burn down their own tree. And some more I say too.
In the past I have had many players ask me that the person that they joined by just ignored them in the time of need.and I have seen it too but I don't like to name names but if they do get into something that will harm that person in anyway you bet I would at that time. It all comes to Trust If you don't have that about that person don't give them the time of day I say.
Thanks to other affiliates that are down to earth to take the time to help iron out the crap from the dirty affiliate.
You do have some bad apples in every bushel.And the worst is it ^%$# when you have people that only care about one thing The Mighty Buck.
In my field of work I have one thing I say to all to do is.
"People Helping People And The World Will Be A Better Place To Live"
You will find thee best forum in the World but anyplace you go you will always find ^%$# on them as well anyplace you go.You have many back stabbing @h's

 

[lojo]

I wouldn't worry about 'trying to make points' USA2112

Might as well out affiliates with integrity, even if you're outing yourself

 

[RobWin]

I agree it is getting hard.



I had mentioned in the other thread how some affiliates think its just a big money tree. Well, just don't let greed get in the way and it can be alright and you can earn a little bit. But, for those affiliates that don't care about their players and whether they get burned at a casino will eventually burn down their own tree.

USA2112, I clicked on your link to check out your place and it comes up and says:

Sorry, but this board is currently unavailable. Please try again later.

 

[USA2112]

USA2112, I clicked on your link to check out your place and it comes up and says:

Sorry, but this board is currently unavailable. Please try again later.

Thanks for the visit RobWin. Had some problems I've been trying to work out with no luck. So, had to shut down for a while to do some rebuilding just have not had much time. Called in some help so hopefully soon.

 

[RobWin]

Thanks for the visit RobWin. Had some problems I've been trying to work out with no luck. So, had to shut down for a while to do some rebuilding just have not had much time. Called in some help so hopefully soon.

Let me know when you get it back up, I'd like to smoke it over...I've been checking out everybodys site trying to get some ideas...

 

[mojo]

Hello All,

I am a new member here and went through the motions of signing up etc. I was transparent of who I am. An affilate. But most of all a player. I am referring to this thread here.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/cool-made-cashout-off-of-1-in-comps-points.22312/

Lojo, I appriciate your opening a new thread and your straight forward way of looking at things, though the method was tough on me. I thank you for the compliment. I respect your quest, however, in trying to do your part for this industry. I responded as such:

Hi guys. Here are my thoughts.

While I wasn't happy about being blindsided here, I have to admit it has been effective in my examining this much closer. After I slept on it, I am currently contucting a player poll and getting input from other affiliates. Since I, myself, had only one player issue with this group and it was immediatly resolved with Nicolas, I haven't had cause to remove them. However, as a webmaster and a player it is my duty to excercise due diligence. I also spoke with Nicolas about this thread and am told he is aware of the bad rep and trying to make it better. My player poll shows a mixed bag but it has only been up 2 days.

Since this casino has been rouged here I am taking that very seriously. With all due respect, I am on my own info gathering quest at the moment. To be honest, it's not looking good for them.

Perhaps you could help. Could you direct me to recent relevent threads here? Maybe you could you tell me how you view Gambling Wages and Prism/Virtual? In other words do you consider them all one and the same and rouged across the board..?

lojo, I appriciate your post. See - I knew I liked you . I do have a Cirrus banner up as it is part of the GW group until further determination. I am always wanting to be a better affiliate/webmaster even if I don't like what I hear.


Sorry again amatrine!

I want to re-iterate I am a player. Many affiliates are not players. That is not a bad thing but I think I may understand more. I had a gambling problem and had to overcome that. I acutually had to be a raving lunitic to a funding method, firepay..remember them? I wanted them to ban me because I could not be trusted to utilize their service. I screamed at neteller too ( I was a total jerk) so they would close my account and not let me fund anymore. It worked. To those of you with a gambling problem and nothing else has worked, I recommend getting banned everywhere there is a funding method available to you. To this day I do not have a debit card on my checking account. I hope that makes sense.

As far as the relevent issue here. I have so far removed cirrus though I am not done. I have more to go. lojo was 100% right. I conducted the poll mentioned above. While some were happy with them the negitives outweighed the positives.

Now, here is my question. Since this is all one group, do you as players know what casinos are in this group? Why is one ok and one is not? To me, since I am also an affiliate, if you rouge one then you rouge them all.

I do appriciate you hearing me out as I constantly am seeking knowledge in this industry. I don't like to be told what to do but I do need a smack in the head to pay attention.

Resectfully,
Mojo

ps..i really do like lojo

 

[aksana]

First of all I should say that Mojo is a very good affiliate, she is one of those affiliates who thinks about players, because she is also a player. She knows more, she understands players better than a usual affiliate. She is very responsable and always tries to solve players' problems. And I know a lot of people who can confirm that.

CasinoMeister is a forum for players, affiliates have their special forums like CAP, GPWA and etc, where we also have our rogue and trusted affiliate programs in spite of that these programs are CAP or GPWA certified. I'm an active member of CAP and GPWA and I always read all posts and I have never heard that Gambling Wages (affiliate program of Cirrus Casino, Palace of Chance and etc.) didn't solve affiliates problems, they even could solve players' problems if an affiliate like Mojo asked them, yes there were complaints concerning payments delay, but always all problems were solved, and really it was a BIG surprise when I saw that Cirrus Casino was recognized as the worst casino of 2007. I also promoted all these casinos,recently I removed them from my site. It was my fault because I didn't investigate them properly, that is why I started reading CasinoMester forum that to be in the center of all events of the gamblers' world.

We all make mistakes...

 

[RobWin]

Hello All,

I am a new member here and went through the motions of signing up etc. I was transparent of who I am. An affilate. But most of all a player. I am referring to this thread here.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/cool-made-cashout-off-of-1-in-comps-points.22312/

Lojo, I appriciate your opening a new thread and your straight forward way of looking at things, though the method was tough on me. I thank you for the compliment. I respect your quest, however, in trying to do your part for this industry. I responded as such:



I want to re-iterate I am a player. Many affiliates are not players. That is not a bad thing but I think I may understand more. I had a gambling problem and had to overcome that. I acutually had to be a raving lunitic to a funding method, firepay..remember them? I wanted them to ban me because I could not be trusted to utilize their service. I screamed at neteller too ( I was a total jerk) so they would close my account and not let me fund anymore. It worked. To those of you with a gambling problem and nothing else has worked, I recommend getting banned everywhere there is a funding method available to you. To this day I do not have a debit card on my checking account. I hope that makes sense.

As far as the relevent issue here. I have so far removed cirrus though I am not done. I have more to go. lojo was 100% right. I conducted the poll mentioned above. While some were happy with them the negitives outweighed the positives.

Now, here is my question. Since this is all one group, do you as players know what casinos are in this group? Why is one ok and one is not? To me, since I am also an affiliate, if you rouge one then you rouge them all.
I do appriciate you hearing me out as I constantly am seeking knowledge in this industry. I don't like to be told what to do but I do need a smack in the head to pay attention.

Resectfully,
Mojo

ps..i really do like lojo

Look on Casinomeisters List of Rogue Casinos, he has already done all the research for you over the years and yes you have to Rogue all the casinos in the same group...eg: Virtual Casino Group...a lot of casinos in that group...all Rogues...

 

[GaryWatson]

I would go as far to say, CAP is far from a reliable source of information. The more I read through the site, the less trustworthy they seem. I would use extreme caution taking their word on face value. Certainly not a good place to evaluate a site.

 

[BingoT]

I don't care where you go online to view any talk about Bingo,Poker,Casino.or whatever.You do have your Pro's & Con's.Because this one promotes this and that one promotes that.And this one says this is better and that one says it sucks.and so on.
I just think the bottom line is Money.
And the most important thing in this business is TRUSTand that the affiliate backs up the players if need be.I can name over 20 that would just ignore you if you ran into any trouble and this is a shame because it hurts the one's that care about the player.
I rather go through a affiliate than to join the site straight up.
But I do have to say CAP's does have good info and everyone will not agree with everything anyplace you go.

 

[RobWin]

I don't care where you go online to view any talk about Bingo,Poker,Casino.or whatever.You do have your Pro's & Con's.Because this one promotes this and that one promotes that.And this one says this is better and that one says it sucks.and so on.
I just think the bottom line is Money.
And the most important thing in this business is TRUSTand that the affiliate backs up the players if need be.I can name over 20 that would just ignore you if you ran into any trouble and this is a shame because it hurts the one's that care about the player.
I rather go through a affiliate than to join the site straight up.
But I do have to say CAP's does have good info and everyone will not agree with everything anyplace you go.

That's exactly why I suggested using Casinomeisters List of Rogue Casinos as a guideline as it is truly tried and tested over the years.

 

[aksana]

That's exactly why I suggested using Casinomeisters List of Rogue Casinos as a guideline as it is truly tried and tested over the years.

Yes, agree 100% with you!

 

[lojo]

Please be sure to read CasinoMeister's comments on the matter of 'levels of rogue' referenced in my first post in this thread. It is not black and white, concrete, or as easy as it may seem.

Also, my motives here were not to simply target Virtual casinos, though that is very easy to do using only CM.com as a frame of reference. If putting market pressures on any casino or group of casinos were to encourage them to operate more fairly, it would be a good thing.

This effort may have a positive affect, but it is simplistic and was naive of me to think it would be anything more than a losing battle in the end. It's way to much stick and not enough carrot, so I am abandoning it.

What has to occur for lasting change, as I've said in at least a half dozen posts over the the last year, is that the very business model that is casino/affiliate/player relations must change - be totally thrown out as corrupt and arcane and be replaced with a simple, transparent, and most of all fair model. (as a friend reminded me recently)

It is win/win/win except for affiliates who are getting lifetime payouts for nothing. Change sucks if you fight it, but change is coming - I assure you. Maybe not today, and maybe not next month, but it is coming to the industry, with or without my efforts. The idea is on fire and smoldering heavily under the surface and will burst on the scene in it's own time- with or without me. It's a done deal.

Soon (in the grand scheme of things) market force and customer satisfaction alone will determine who gets whose business and how. The concept is shockingly simple and I've stated it before. There will be heavy resistance, and it will turn an entire segment of this industry on its ear, but resistance is futile. The dark, opaque, backroom ways are as good as gone.

To the affiliates who would fight it the most; I encourage you to embrace it and become pioneers and leaders.

Casinos have nothing to fear and nothing to lose - and only goodwill, increased revenues, and lower marketing costs to gain.

Affiliates who recognize the value of work and service have nothing to lose, and only goodwill, increased revenues, and lower real costs in the long run.

Players have everything to gain.

I can, and very well might, step away from the whole issue, but that will not change it. The candle is lost in the fire. This change will occur with or without my help now. It is a done deal. I didn't start it and there is nothing I could do to stop it. The revolution has begun.

 

[lojo]

I just want to take a second to applaud aksana and mojo:clap::clap::clap:

Again, this is not about Virtual, its about a fair game, period.

These two affiliates are taking a financial hit to 'do the right thing'. Most of us would probably agree that it will benefit them in the long run. How about we show them that now? If you are going to sign up at a new casino, may I suggest you go to one of their pages and sign up from there? (unless you always sign up through Casinomeister, which you should to show your appreciation of this site's work for and service to the player community) but if you are not of that habit yet, please show these two courageous affiliates your appreciation, and help them recoup some losses, by signing up today through one or both of them. I will next time i play at a new casino. It's the right thing to do. thx

 

[GaryWatson]

I would but Ive blown my tank for the month. I refuse to sign up through spam or banner farms. There are certain sites I wont sign up through just because I know what they do. I always use affiliate links & have no problem signing up through affiliates interested in fair game.

 

[USA2112]

And the most important thing in this business is TRUST and that the affiliate backs up the players if need be. I can name over 20 that would just ignore you if you ran into any trouble and this is a shame because it hurts the one's that care about the player.

You can say that again! All players should be able to trust their affiliates when it comes to getting help or at least be able to send them in the right direction to get the help they need. Were not all casino advocates like the casinomister or have the connections sometimes or clout to resolve certain issues. But, if affiliates advertise casinos with credibility chances are they can handle any issue that arises for their players. With advertising rogue casinos the whole story changes.

Some affiliates do not even have a clue they are using rogue tactics when advertising certain casinos until they visit a watchdog sight like the casinomeister and if they are willing to change after the fact that is a good sign for both them and their players. But, the rogue affiliates that have the knowledge and information needed to prevent complications for their players and chose not to use it need to be put out of business. And there is quite a few!

That's exactly why I suggested using Casinomeisters List of Rogue Casinos as a guideline as it is truly tried and tested over the years.

Could not have said it better, the proof is already there. To each their own if they decide to use it or not.

Also, my motives here were not to simply target Virtual casinos, though that is very easy to do using only CM.com as a frame of reference. If putting market pressures on any casino or group of casinos were to encourage them to operate more fairly, it would be a good thing.

If any casino group needs to be targeted as rogued the Virtual group is one that certaily deserves it. This casino group has probably ripped off more players than any group out there. So, well deserved, but I doubt they will change their ways and even if they did would really make a difference at this point. I think the Virtual group has destroyed any chance for a long term future as the casino industry is now starting to change from bringing these types of issues of rogue casinos up.

Here's one thing for affiliates to ponder if they promote casinos like the Virtual group. When the Virtual group is finally out of business and they will be, the affiliate program and any profits being made from players if any will be out of business also. Seems like alot of wasted effort from the affiliates standpoint to advertise them. It would be smater to be in it for the long hall and chose casinos that will whether the change that's coming in near the future.

 

[lojo]

I would guess that 90% of players don't even know what an affiliate is and does.