Account hacked

[Greago]

Hi, All

Have been using online casino's for many years now without a problem. However I have recently had my account hacked and my withdrawal reversed and then gambled away.
The casino in question have been investigating for 2 weeks now without giving me any information despite numerous calls and originally giving me a timeframe of 92 hrs.
I came across this site whilst looking for help and thought it would be a good place to share my experience and hopefully get some advice.
I would like to add that the casino hasn't said either way if it will refund the stolen money.

Thanks

 

[Nifty29]

[SUP][/SUP]

Hi, All

Have been using online casino's for many years now without a problem. However I have recently had my account hacked and my withdrawal reversed and then gambled away.
The casino in question have been investigating for 2 weeks now without giving me any information despite numerous calls and originally giving me a timeframe of 92 hrs.
I came across this site whilst looking for help and thought it would be a good place to share my experience and hopefully get some advice.
I would like to add that the casino hasn't said either way if it will refund the stolen money.

Thanks

FWIW, every case I've heard of where a player's account has been "hacked" and their withdrawal reversed and lost, has turned out to be the actual player themselves reversing the withdrawal and losing it, and trying to get it back from the casino by claiming it was stolen.

Of course, your case may be unique, so if it is, I wish you good luck.

 

[bsilva028]

Hi, All

Have been using online casino's for many years now without a problem. However I have recently had my account hacked and my withdrawal reversed and then gambled away.
The casino in question have been investigating for 2 weeks now without giving me any information despite numerous calls and originally giving me a timeframe of 92 hrs.
I came across this site whilst looking for help and thought it would be a good place to share my experience and hopefully get some advice.
I would like to add that the casino hasn't said either way if it will refund the stolen money.

Thanks

what casino is?

 

[rainmaker]

.

You can check if they have a rep on this forum: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/?key=staff_members

If so, then you may want to send them a private message.

 

[Greago]

The casino is william hill. The thing I can't understand is why someone would go to all that trouble just to lose somebody else's money.
The first person I reported it to told me not to report it to the police and agreed that it looked suspicious as I play via my ipad and only ever blackjack where as the other activity was through a different format and played many different games.
I will send them a message if you think that will be a good step

 

[rainmaker]

The casino is william hill. The thing I can't understand is why someone would go to all that trouble just to lose somebody else's money.
The first person I reported it to told me not to report it to the police and agreed that it looked suspicious as I play via my ipad and only ever blackjack where as the other activity was through a different format and played many different games.
I will send them a message if you think that will be a good step

Yeah, they have a rep here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

I also agree with what The Big Forum Hero said. I can not remember seeing any similar cases where a hacker has chosen to play instead of stealing, but you may have a unique case.

As you probably also understand. It always sounds a bit strange when we hear about hackers that have gambled away a pending withdrawal on slots

Good luck and keep us updated yes!

 

[just play]

Was this your first deposit at this casino, or have you been a member for a while?

I would think William Hill would need some time to investigate this, much longer than 92 hours.

Oh and how much was your deposit?

 

[colly]

[SUP][/SUP]

FWIW, every case I've heard of where a player's account has been "hacked" and their withdrawal reversed and lost, has turned out to be the actual player themselves reversing the withdrawal and losing it, and trying to get it back from the casino by claiming it was stolen.

Of course, your case may be unique, so if it is, I wish you good luck.

Actually Nifty and Rainmaker- it's not unique- this happened to me at Inetbet some years ago with the funds transferred to a money booker account. Inetbet was able to confirm and subsequently refunded amount to my Inetbet account.

You usual healthy degree of scepticism is sometimes warranted but these things do happen.

 

[rainmaker]

Actually Nifty and Rainmaker- it's not unique- this happened to me at Inetbet some years ago with the funds transferred to a money booker account. Inetbet was able to confirm and subsequently refunded amount to my Inetbet account.

You usual healthy degree of scepticism is sometimes warranted but these things do happen.

Thanks for that info.

And these guys also played before they cashed out ?

 

[colly]

That I do not know- I raised the query when INB had credited me a managers bonus and it didn't show- WHen we went into transaction history it showed as being given and then sometime later being transferred to a Moneybooker account- given there is a playthrough requirement I assume they must have played but I cannot confirm. Inetbet did the investigation

 

[rainmaker]

That I do not know- I raised the query when INB had credited me a managers bonus and it didn't show- WHen we went into transaction history it showed as being given and then sometime later being transferred to a Moneybooker account- given there is a playthrough requirement I assume they must have played but I cannot confirm. Inetbet did the investigation

Oki. I think that this case is a bit different since the alleged hacker has chosen to gamble with a pending withdrawal (no WR etc) instead of just stealing it. I am sure this is also what Nifty referred to when he said it was "unique".

One thing is when someone hacks an account and transfer the money to an e-wallet or whatever. But I can not remember seeing a case where a hacker has chosen to gamble instead of actually trying to steal the funds .

 

[chayton]

I was just thinking of 'Evil Rhonda'
Of course it's possible that the OP is on the level, but it seems like an odd thing for a hacker to do, I agree. Unless they wanted to try to get the withdrawal to a larger amount before stealing it...? How much was the withdrawal for I wonder?

 

[P.V.]

Does seem odd for the hacker to play vs. trying to move the money.

This is where a simple text, or email sent to the player stating their account has just been logged in to comes into play..

I implemented this on my site, when you log into your account you're notified immediately by email for security reasons that you've just logged in.

 

[gambler777]

It is both odd and unique, however, I wonder if it may have been a teen, who just wanted to see if they could make it bigger, or just wanted to try gambling. Good luck, I hope you do get your funds back.

 

[mrmark21]

That must have been very convenient for the hacker, seems like they almost knew when to hack you're account, at the exact moment the funds had reached withdrawal... and not stealing them but "reversing" them. Very convenient indeed

That's not to say this couldn't have happened, it's just all very coincidental, and if that's the case I hope you're funds are recovered

 

[Seventh777]

There are several ways an account could be hacked, the most common being a keylogger, have you thought of changing every password you have used since this happened and prior to happening?, especially your means of depositing, be it card or e-wallet, has William Hill informed you of the origin of the IP address used by the hacker?.

 

[Realitybitez]

Could be someone you know. In all probably, it is someone you know. A close friend/member of the family, someone who knows your account details? I cant see any other reason, why they would just 'gamble it all away'

When I used to play poker (for fun) my son was forever on my account playing all my 'play' money away. Was seriously annoying Of course, he knew that it would be incredibly dangerous for his health to ever touch my 'real' money accounts

 

[Greago]

Ok so here's the full story. I'd been a member there for years, on the night in question I'd made 3 separate deposits for a total of £400 pounds. Just after 3am I placed my withdrawal for £1000 and went to bed.
At around 10 the next morning I tried to log back into my account and received a message saying my username and password was incorrect.
I contacted will hill who after trying lots of things eventually reset my password and allowed me to log back in to my account.
I was by this point a little anxious so immediately checked my withdrawal. I saw that I had no pending withdrawals so then checked my bet history and saw that at around 5 am my withdrawal had been reversed and there was pages and pages of bets over the next couple of hours.
I deposit straight from my bank card and they will usually only refund money directly back to there.
They may have tried to withdraw it by other means and failed I don't really know I was so concerned I reported it and my account was locked so didn't have the time to check every transaction they made.
All other online accounts I have do not seem to be affected at all.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ok so here's the full story. I'd been a member there for years, on the night in question I'd made 3 separate deposits for a total of £400 pounds. Just after 3am I placed my withdrawal for £1000 and went to bed.
At around 10 the next morning I tried to log back into my account and received a message saying my username and password was incorrect.
I contacted will hill who after trying lots of things eventually reset my password and allowed me to log back in to my account.
I was by this point a little anxious so immediately checked my withdrawal. I saw that I had no pending withdrawals so then checked my bet history and saw that at around 5 am my withdrawal had been reversed and there was pages and pages of bets over the next couple of hours.
I deposit straight from my bank card and they will usually only refund money directly back to there.
They may have tried to withdraw it by other means and failed I don't really know I was so concerned I reported it and my account was locked so didn't have the time to check every transaction they made.
All other online accounts I have do not seem to be affected at all.

Does anyone live with you?
Have you written down your account details anywhere, or even logged in when others were watching.

It seems only a small window of opportunity was available, between 3am and 5am. This suggests an "inside job".

The alternative could be that the hacker checked your account regularly by logging in at around 5am, and just got lucky this time. You should ask Will Hill whether there have been other logins from devices other than your iPad. If there was nothing to play, you would not notice such attempts.

The hacker seems to have made an attempt to buy time by changing your password after playing your money.

The last thing to check is the games played, particularly whether multi player games were accessed which would allow your money to be played away into the account of another player, rather than lost to the casino.

Although they said not to report this to the police, this should be up to you to decide, even if only to make an official statement and get a crime reference number. This would be useful if you are not satisfied with the outcome of the Will Hill investigation and want to take the matter further. If the police do decide to investigate, they can get records from Will Hill that they would never send to you, and they may throw more light as to how this was pulled off.

You should also run thorough scans on your PC to see if any malware is lurking there, and as suggested, change all other passwords in case the hacker has gained access to other accounts of yours, and just hasn't shown their hand yet.

 

[bsilva028]

maybe the casino can check the if the ip that reversed is different? or if its the same?

 

[Greago]

I have never written my password down and I live only with my wife who doesn't gamble and was in bed with me at the time this happened. I only ever play from my ipad and at home where there is no one to look over my shoulder.
I'm not very tech savvy but did think that iPads were impervious to viruses and the like. But I may well be wrong on this. The first thing I did was to change all my other passwords.
The reporting to the police thing is strange as when I called customer services 2 days ago for an update the rep asked why I hadn't reported it to the police. When I told him why he said this was wrong and I should report it.
However a few minutes later after he had spoken to the investigation team to try and get me an update he then told me not to report it. All very confusing!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have never written my password down and I live only with my wife who doesn't gamble and was in bed with me at the time this happened. I only ever play from my ipad and at home where there is no one to look over my shoulder.
I'm not very tech savvy but did think that iPads were impervious to viruses and the like. But I may well be wrong on this. The first thing I did was to change all my other passwords.
The reporting to the police thing is strange as when I called customer services 2 days ago for an update the rep asked why I hadn't reported it to the police. When I told him why he said this was wrong and I should report it.
However a few minutes later after he had spoken to the investigation team to try and get me an update he then told me not to report it. All very confusing!

I think you should. This sounds like the casino are taking care of THEIR interests, not yours, in trying to keep the police out of the loop. Reporting a theft or other crime to the police as soon as you can protects YOUR interests, and allows you to give a statement whilst the event is still fresh in your mind. You could tell the police that Will Hill are conducting an internal investigation. If the police don't think this is their problem, let them tell you this, not Will Hill.

iPads are portable devices, and it is a myth that Apple devices are immune from such things.

 

[Seventh777]

What VWM said, it appears the bubble has burst regarding Apple Macs and their immunity to viruses.

 

[Greago]

So an update for everyone. Had a call at about 4pm today from a nice man at will hill to say that my money is being refunded. Have got home and checked my account to see that the money is there.
Very relieved and a big thanks to everyone who has posted. They couldn't tell me how it had happened as they were still investigating but said it was clear that it was not me.

 

[Mousey]

So an update for everyone. Had a call at about 4pm today from a nice man at will hill to say that my money is being refunded. Have got home and checked my account to see that the money is there.
Very relieved and a big thanks to everyone who has posted. They couldn't tell me how it had happened as they were still investigating but said it was clear that it was not me.

Happy endings always make me happy.

Just a couple of sidenotes... (1) I still don't trust the security of home wireless internet. (2) my husband had a simple username at most online poker rooms, and there were many many many attempts by people from Belize, the Ukraine, Malaysia, etc., adnauseum, who tried to log into his accounts - seems they never got the password right. LOL

Never have an easy password for accounts that involve personal information and/or money. Change passwords often. Never use the same password at more than one account. Etc., etc.

Good luck to ya!

 

[just play]

So an update for everyone. Had a call at about 4pm today from a nice man at will hill to say that my money is being refunded. Have got home and checked my account to see that the money is there.
Very relieved and a big thanks to everyone who has posted. They couldn't tell me how it had happened as they were still investigating but said it was clear that it was not me.

This is very good news! I'm happy this case turned out this way.

 

[GOCC]

To be fair, a days housekeeping is in order.

My children know what my main 2 password are and my daughter actually spent just over £100 on Itunes as it just kept taking the payment from my card as she knew my password (It was her name)

 

[Reefer]

Hackers tend to like to troll
They obviously had no way of withdrawing the funds so just decided to have some fun with the bankroll
Would be interesting to have a look at what games the haxors played and at what stakes..
what would you have done if you had logged back in and been 2k up

 

[LaHutti]

I think if he had been 2K up, and made a withdrawal, lights and sounds would have gone off at WH, due to IP addy. I have a feeling this happened from a different country than the players home country.

Hackers tend to like to troll
They obviously had no way of withdrawing the funds so just decided to have some fun with the bankroll
Would be interesting to have a look at what games the haxors played and at what stakes..
what would you have done if you had logged back in and been 2k up

 

[vinylweatherman]

So an update for everyone. Had a call at about 4pm today from a nice man at will hill to say that my money is being refunded. Have got home and checked my account to see that the money is there.
Very relieved and a big thanks to everyone who has posted. They couldn't tell me how it had happened as they were still investigating but said it was clear that it was not me.

With Will Hill satisfied that this was a hack, we need to know how to protect ourselves. It is all very well banging on about passwords and secure internet, but this will only be of use if this was how the hack was enabled.

An insecure WiFi needs the hacker to be within it's range to gather the information necessary for a hack. Other things to look at are insecure email accounts, which can be accessed from anywhere. Spam lists hold millions of email addresses, and whilst they are often bought and sold for spamming, they can also be useful to hack. The email address is known, and this gives the name of the provider. It is then a case of attacking the account via it's webmail interface. Once in, a hacker can gain information, and with access to an email account can also use most "password reset" functions. The account names for many casinos is quoted in promotional emails. The hacker would tend to cover their tracks when using a password reset facility by deleting the email produced before the user can see it. You merely found that someone had hacked your account and reset the password so that at first you could not log in.

Knowing from where the hack took place would be pretty useful, even if Will Hill cannot find out how. Even with the money refunded, the gateway that enabled this hack needs to be identified and shut, else the same thing could happen again.

For an iPad, the answer could be a dodgy app that has somehow slipped past Apple security, or a jailbroken iPad that has used the alternate app store and gotten a malware infection.

I think Android devices are more at risk as the Android app store is more open than that of Apple.

Hackers are already attacking smartphones and tablets, and if anything may consider these a better target than the traditional PC or Mac.

 

[Mousey]

That's the thing of course, we can only guess what happened as the casino remains mum. (Which is why I mentioned home wireless security and password guessing as 'sidenotes'.) We don't have to know exactly 'how' it was done, but a brief statement as to 'what' happened would help us all find where to plug our leaks, so to speak.

Anyone remember a while back that poker players accounts were being cleaned out willy nilly? Problem is, we still don't know how it was done, don't know where the weak spot was -- was it poker room side? or player side? both? (Of course the player to player transfer was one weak link, but how did the baddies get in in the first place?)

 

[vinylweatherman]

That's the thing of course, we can only guess what happened as the casino remains mum. (Which is why I mentioned home wireless security and password guessing as 'sidenotes'.) We don't have to know exactly 'how' it was done, but a brief statement as to 'what' happened would help us all find where to plug our leaks, so to speak.

Anyone remember a while back that poker players accounts were being cleaned out willy nilly? Problem is, we still don't know how it was done, don't know where the weak spot was -- was it poker room side? or player side? both? (Of course the player to player transfer was one weak link, but how did the baddies get in in the first place?)

I would say it was, and this is why they are not prepared to say anything about it. If the leak is their side, there is nothing players can do to make things more secure. If it was the players at fault, I would expect the poker room to be keen to pass the blame to the players. At present, they shoulder the blame themselves.

If Will Hill refuse to disclose to players how they can protect themselves from this happening again, one must assume that Will Hill have taken on the responsibilty for doing so, which would indicate that the exploit relied on a weakness in their own systems, which once plugged, protects players from a repeat performance.

It seems various accounts are getting hacked, and the suppliers are refusing to reveal what weaknesses they have discovered. This seems at odds with the usual policies of blame the customer for being careless so that the company can wash it's hands of any responsibility to refund the losses.

The issue must be that to some extent there is nothing end users can do to protect themselves, and that it needs the supplying company to improve it's fraud detection procedures, and this is why nothing gets revealed to customers, as to do so would mean revealing something about how fraud detection works, and how it was beaten.