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Bitch and Moan 888 Casino non payment self exclude

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Bear08, Oct 11, 2015.

    Oct 11, 2015
  1. Bear08

    Bear08 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    IT Sales
    Location:
    Southampton
    Hi All,

    Lots of very useful info on this forum,I've got a bitch and moan about an experience I have with 888 casino and wondering if I can get some advice from you all to see if it's worth me complaining.

    I've played online for quite a while and from time to time self exclude myself to have a break from gambling. One of the things which used to annoy me most were the constant marketing emails you get, they always stop once you take a break for a month or so. With the majority of online gaming sites that I had banned myself from I usually get a notification to say you're banned etc contact support. I've lost count of the sites I had signed up to in the past and which ones I had excluded from, I obviously always use my details name, address, dob, payment card etc.

    I was playing on foxy bingo online deposited £1000 and winning over £10000, I collected the money and then after waiting nearly a week for the money to come back I received an email from their support team to say due to self exclusion they will not be paying me but they'll refund the original £1000 which was back in my account within a day. As you can imagine I was pretty pissed off by this point and after talking to a mate he suggested I take a break for a long time which I have done, it's been over 6 months now from playing online and I don't miss it. I've saved money in the long run.
    I still go and spend £100 down the casino every couple of months but it's nothing in comparison to what I used to do online.

    Now that time has gone and I'm not expecting the money at all I started to look through to see if I could have a complaint to make. I found an email from 888 casino in 2014 to say that my self exclusion period of 30 days has ended. I have an incident number etc and there's nothing to say I have to re register.

    This experience if anything has helped to take complete control of my gambling as I have pretty much 100% stopped now but I'm wondering if anyone thinks I should make a complaint or try and claim back the money I have lost on other sites? I have checked and in the time I have gone onto some of their other sites and lost money.

    I can understand why they have these self exclusion rules but think some of them can be harsh. A couple of questions I have,
    Why was I allowed to sign up so easily?
    Will they provide my details of my exclusion if I ask them, start dates etc?
    If they provide these can I go through sites I was on and try and get the money I deposited back as I was self excluded similar to them not paying me the large amount I won?

    Has anyone else had a similar experience? Please let me know if you think I'm wasting my time. Really appreciate any advice you can give me.
     
  2. Oct 11, 2015
  3. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    Okay go to google search at top right hand corner of page and type in self exclusion and read some of the posts theymightgive you some of the answers.

    Over the last six months their have been constant posts about self exclusion and whether people should get money back. The whole things a mess.

    Personally I have my own thoughts on it but ill keep them to my self. But I would be very surprised especially after this length of time if you managed to get money back especially from 888 group.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Oct 11, 2015
  5. bebo67

    bebo67 Meister Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Im on Google and write. Thats all you need to know
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    When ever I have self excluded, I had to ask in writing to reopen my accounts. I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but wouldnt you have had to ask for your account to be reopen? Closed is closed.
     
  6. Oct 11, 2015
  7. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Unfortunately 888 and Cassava have multitudes of sites and will shaft winners on a no-lose basis like EveryMatrix. They'll keep you money if you lose and don't spot your details at sign-up, and not pay you if you win. As these groups prey on problem gamers who have SE'd it's nice and convenient for them to gain risk-free revenue by 'not spotting' your ahem.... repeat details at sign-up.

    You cannot PAB as 888/Cassava won't communicate with third parties like CM and are on Max's No-Can-Do list. Just try and get your deposits back.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Dec 7, 2015
  9. Bear08

    Bear08 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    IT Sales
    Location:
    Southampton
    Has anyone else had this problem?
    I've been slowly plugging away at this and watchdog have started speaking to me about it. It's all moving very slowly.
     
  10. Dec 8, 2015
  11. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FYI: 888/Cassava: all related properties are ignoring player complaints, as dunover said.

    If you want to proceed with a complaint you should look in their Terms for a section entitled "Disputes" or somesuch. It will specify an "ADR" which is where you'll have to go with your complaint. I think 888 uses eCOGRA.
     
  12. Mar 19, 2016
  13. Hoops77

    Hoops77 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Print
    Location:
    London
    In a very similar position
    Been offered a medium sum to close my complaint down
     
  14. Mar 19, 2016
  15. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Max, what recourse has a player got with a UK licensed casino? Meaning could they bypass eCOGRA and go straight to the UKGC? Maybe 'stupid' question, but honestly don't know answer, hence asking :)
     
  16. Mar 19, 2016
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    The UKGC doesn't handle complaints - only their assigned ADRs do this. :D
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Mar 19, 2016
  19. Hoops77

    Hoops77 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Print
    Location:
    London
    They have handled mine asked for all email timelines and advised me to go to small claims court
     
  20. Mar 20, 2016
  21. taximania123

    taximania123 Experienced Member MM

    Occupation:
    se
    Location:
    uk
    When you wrote this :

    If they provide these can I go through sites I was on and try and get the money I deposited back as I was self excluded similar to them not paying me the large amount I won?


    did you mean you went onto sites owned by the same company whilst you were self excluded and lost ?
     
  22. Mar 21, 2016
  23. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Sorry Dave, just stumbled across this. Bryan gives you the short answer:

    The long answer is the player is currently a bit boned by the UKGC rules which say that player at Casino X can only take their complaint to the ADR listed by that casino. In other words there are no other options. There was -- I'd have to verify that this still exists -- an option where a player could name a 3rd party to speak on their behalf but all that means is that the player could get other persons to handle their side of the negotiation. The ADR would not be bound in any way to deal with said 3rd party any differently than they would the player themselves.

    IMO this situation has taken a turn for the worse recently in that the UKGC is apparently being lobbied to allow casinos to only list A SINGLE ADR, supposedly to avoid confusion for the poor player who might see multiple ADRs listed and become terminally confused by the burden of choice.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Mar 21, 2016
  25. cncas2123

    cncas2123 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Belfast
    Can I add to this that I queried a self exclusion/shared license issue with an accredited casino, and was advised to contact IBAS who were the ADR, but when I did contact IBAS they told me that they cant rule on self exclusion issues, they have to be addressed to UKGC, who obviously dont deal directly with complaints, so its a case of going round in circles.
     
  26. Mar 21, 2016
  27. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Yeah, it's not a good situation re SE issues right now. The UKGC is in a state of flux over SE -- the rules have changes two or three times in the past few months -- and lately they seem to be trying to send SE complaints to small claims court. We and most players see that as totally unrealistic but that's where things seem to be at just now.

    If I may say, my impression of the UKGC is that they are just a few people trying to find their way through the darkness and they don't have much to light the way. And there are some pretty big heavyweights out there in the shadows. I believe the UKGC have good intentions and their principles seem sound but they do stumble off into the tall grass ever once in a while.

    My suggestion would be to be vocal but slow to jump to final conclusions: their will to find the right path has served them pretty well so far.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Mar 21, 2016
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If BBC Watchdog are prepared to run this as a consumer issue story, it may prod the UKGC into action and force them to address this issue rather than leave it as something that the ADRs won't touch and forcing them all to the small claims courts.

    However, the casinos may get worried if the courts get involved and there is a perceived risk that rulings would be in players' favour in a significant number of circumstances, and this may result in the CASINOS lobbying the UKGC to implement a system that steers players away from the courts in such cases.

    For larger amounts, the small claims process may well be worth a try. Not only would it be a matter of claiming the winnings, it would also be a matter of asking the court to at least rule on consistency.
     
  30. Mar 21, 2016
  31. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    This issue brings up the question of expertise with the UKGC. If you take employment tribunal disputes for example, there is a union/workers rep, employers rep and a legal one and a consensus has to be reached. There is no guarantee an ADR is neutral or has the knowledge necessary. Of course the POGG and such like we would have confidence in.

    Now if complainants lack confidence and seek a CC Judge instead, it makes a mockery of the UKGC's efforts and the whole process. I can't even see the legality of having unknown third parties given powers to make decisions by decree in place of consumer legislation. Of course you can still take the matter down the legal route if you lose the ADR appeal but their decision would have gravitas and prejudice your case as the Judge (unless a straightforward case of law being breached) would likely take their word unless you had hard proof it was contrary to legislation in place.

    So yes, it is a mess and I agree it seems the UKGC has very little knowledge of aligning the ethos of consumer legislation with the rights of a player to be treated appropriately.
     
  32. Mar 21, 2016
  33. mac72

    mac72 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    gamble
    Location:
    n ireland
    Would that not sort of lead most peoples train of thought straight into the CC instead of even bothering with UKGC? I think if it was me and it was less than 10k i'd just go straight for a judgement?
     
  34. Apr 1, 2016
  35. Yaafcc

    Yaafcc Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    ?
    Location:
    Uk
    Hi I was shafted by Cassava over 2 years ago and successfully managed to claim my money back recently. Exactly the same thing when I was self excluded and genuinely didn't no they owned the other sites I signed up to. Just keep at them and contact me if you need any advice on claiming the money back
     
  36. Apr 1, 2016
  37. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    That is interesting - with whom did you lodge your complaint (i.e. ADR, ECOGRA, Small Claims Court) and on what grounds? By that I mean did you contest the terms were either unfair or unclear, well hidden or maybe you argued that by not prohibiting your play by spotting your details at the sign-up stage they didn't exercise due diligence?

    This is important as snippets of information like this may help light the dispute path up a bit, which as Max said is a pretty shadowy place at present.
     
  38. Apr 1, 2016
  39. Hoops77

    Hoops77 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Print
    Location:
    London
    Can second this I successfully recieved money back from cassava too.
    I emailed them and ukgc and also threatened small claims court
     

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