32red - losing streak?

[PNEFOREVER2]

Your problem IMO is expectation.

$30 isn't going to last ANYONE very long, and if you low roll, your chances of winning something cashable, say $150, are very slim. Even a rare 200xbet is only a $60 win at 30c.

You'll never win anything decent with such small deposits and bets....and the restrictions of a bonus.

I think you may have missed the second part of my post.

When I first started playing I was getting regular 5-8 hours of play from these sort of deposits,of course I didn't expect this to be the case everytime I deposited.In the last 2-3 months I think I can recall one 7 hour session,didn't w/d but wasn't too bothered as I felt it had been worth it seeing as it had saved me from having to view David Dickinson's real deal.

Some of us don't have hundreds of pounds to throw at it everyday.

Over the course of the best part of 18 months you'd expect 1 half decent day somewhere down the line.Even my brother makes the same sort of deposits,and stakes I make-go look at his winner screenshots.

I take the bonus simply because I know I'm more than likely going to need it to extend the short amount of playtime I usually get.

 

[ValDes]

Hello to all of you first!

TBH, I didn't have any intentions to take part in this discussion, since all I got in my hand is nothing but a bare own experience (just a few millions spins and only a couple of tens of thousand in deposits). But...
Some of the guys here, with all my respect, are speaking just too categorical, even afford themselves to accuse other members in all kind of "gambling sins", like building a "conspiracy theories", or being a sore losers and so on! 11 pages of posts and complicated expressions, like RTP, TRTP,etc. and all I managed to see is only a bare players experience!!!
Have any of us ever seen even a single line of the MG source code?!
Have any of us ever seen even a single number of "inside" MG RTP percentage information?!
Have any of us ever seen even a single official explanation from the MG managing body, how is this RTP percentage actually calculated?!
In fact, do we actually know how the MG is treating and calculating personal RTP to players with more than one account across the casinos powered by this software?! Is is based and limited within only one casino or it is based on all of our accounts?!

All this is just the top of the iceberg! For me! And I'll be the happiest guy if someone of you have answers to the above! Until than, every single word in this thread (including my own) is a pure speculation and a fairy tale!

And please don't shoot me! I'm just one of you - an ordinary gambler, looking for his place under the sun!

 

[KasinoKing]

You will never get the true odds of hitting 3 scatters, it`s a no-brainer. The odds are worked out, as per numbers of scatters per reel, and number of slot spaces available (most cases 15), like you stated these odds on Cashapillar are 169/1, but, here`s the kicker, you have hit 2 scatters on reels 1 and 2, you now have 3 reels left to hit one scatter, do the maths, for arguments sake the odds of hitting the 1st two on reels 1 and 2 are 5x5 = 25/1, there isn`t a bookmaker in the world that would give you the odds of the remaining equation 169 - 25 = 144/1 to hit one scatter from any of the last 3 reels, catch my drift ?

Errrr... no I don't get your drift - I am completely lost by your post actually!

The chances of getting 3 or more scatters in view on Cashapillar IS once in every 169.09 spins. It doesn't matter which reels they land on - those are still the odds.
FYI there is only 1 scatter on reels 1, 2 & 3 - but 3 on reel 4 and 2 on reel 5.
The chance of getting a scatter on each reel is as follows (from reel 1 to 5):
1 in 15.80
1 in 15.60
1 in 14.80
1 in 6.27
1 in 9.40

I know this because I spent several hours every day for more than a week plotting the reel layouts from multiple screenshots so that I could put the data on my site:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(These reel-strips were later verified by another CM member who found a way to "grab" them from the casinos streaming of the flash game)

So the odds of getting scatters on reels 1 & 2 is 15.8 x 15.6 = 246.48/1 against - not the 25/1 you said.

Note: The above figures are based on the slot being a 100% true random game - which I personally believe to be the case.

KK

 

[Osloking]

Had to try again to see if things got any better but..


Scott: Hi , how can I help?
Me: Hello Scott could you provide me my RTP yesterday and today?
Me: ************ is my account
Scott: I will have a look for you now.
Scott: One moment please
Scott: I will do that for you now Michael.
Me: thanks Scott
Scott: Today's was 36% and yesterdays was 55%
Me: thanks Scott, enjoy your day!, bye for now
Scott: You're welcome and take care

my cursed account in the nuttshell ..

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Had to try again to see if things got any better but..


Scott: Hi , how can I help?
Me: Hello Scott could you provide me my RTP yesterday and today?
Me: ************ is my account
Scott: I will have a look for you now.
Scott: One moment please
Scott: I will do that for you now Michael.
Me: thanks Scott
Scott: Today's was 36% and yesterdays was 55%
Me: thanks Scott, enjoy your day!, bye for now
Scott: You're welcome and take care

my cursed account in the nuttshell ..

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

How many spins, on what slots, and what was your bankroll relative to your stake?

I'm no big fan of MG (as folks may have noticed ) but you really need some pretty big numbers before an RTP figure starts to mean anything.

(And as I've already said, I don't think there's anything amiss with MG's RTPs in and of themselves, I think it's how the slots get there and the control mechanisms.)

 

[Osloking]

How many spins, on what slots, and what was your bankroll relative to your stake?

I'm no big fan of MG (as folks may have noticed ) but you really need some pretty big numbers before an RTP figure starts to mean anything.

(And as I've already said, I don't think there's anything amiss with MG's RTPs in and of themselves, I think it's how the slots get there and the control mechanisms.)

Hello Chopley these are not much start 40$X2, 0.36Cent bet, but my problem is that this is happening every time, its not ment for whole picture with only these, but imagine this X200 times in 8 months...

 

[steveyboy]

please end now this is going on and on i can,t concentrate on my slots with this post which is going one way then another desist varlets and play the game or leave the casino.

 

[Seventh777]

Errrr... no I don't get your drift - I am completely lost by your post actually!

The chances of getting 3 or more scatters in view on Cashapillar IS once in every 169.09 spins. It doesn't matter which reels they land on - those are still the odds.
FYI there is only 1 scatter on reels 1, 2 & 3 - but 3 on reel 4 and 2 on reel 5.
The chance of getting a scatter on each reel is as follows (from reel 1 to 5):
1 in 15.80
1 in 15.60
1 in 14.80
1 in 6.27
1 in 9.40

I know this because I spent several hours every day for more than a week plotting the reel layouts from multiple screenshots so that I could put the data on my site:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(These reel-strips were later verified by another CM member who found a way to "grab" them from the casinos streaming of the flash game)

So the odds of getting scatters on reels 1 & 2 is 15.8 x 15.6 = 246.48/1 against - not the 25/1 you said.

Note: The above figures are based on the slot being a 100% true random game - which I personally believe to be the case.

KK

Okay, I will try and break it down, it`s one of those things that is hard to explain, I used odds of 25/1 for arguments sake, i`ve never seen the reel strips of Cashapillar, right here we go, you have hit scatters on reels one and two disregard this for a second, what are the odds of hitting at least one scatter on reels 3-4-5?, reel 3 is roughly 15-1, reel 4 is 25-4 and 5 is roughly 19-2, if you sort these spins out to so they don`t coincide with each other as such, so I rounded them up to a number they can be equally divided by = 30, reel 3 will have landed twice, reel 4 = 5 times and reel 5 = 3 times which equals 10 scatters in 30 spins, so basically there is a scatter on one of these reels every 3 spins or so.

The odds of hitting 3 scatters reduces dramatically if you have hit scatters on reels 1-2, as you have 3 shots at hitting one, however, the odds increase if you have not Ie. you need reels 3-4-5, next time you play any slot that you know the reel strips of see how many times you miss the last 3 reels when you have scatters on reels 1 and 2.

The odds of hitting the 1st two scatters on Cashapillar are 246.48-1, the odds of hitting a third are reduced unless you set a specific reel for your 3rd scatter to land as you have 3 bites at the cherry, so imho the odds of hitting 3 scatters should be readjusted accordingly as to which reels the scatters have landed on, the odds of hitting scatters on reels 1-2-3 on Cashapillar are 3647.904/1, the odds of hitting 3 scatters after reels 1-2 scatters have landed are a whole lot less than the odds on hitting the 1st or last 3 scatters.

Basically the RNG should re-assess the chances of hitting 3 scatters as the scatters land accordingly, although this would be impossible as the RNG decides when 3 scatters should land and the reel strips follow suit, and not as is the case which entails your calculus above, over a few million spins this will pan out and the maths will tally up correctly, but, if the reel strips landed completely random and not as programmed to land after the RNG sends the relative data, then the odds of hitting 3 scatters would change drastically as to which reels they land on 1st and 2nd.


Next time you play Cashapillar take notes of how many times the 3rd scatter lands after reels 1 and 2 have landed, or even better, see how many times reels 3-4-5 scatters will land to make two scatters, as to how many times they land to make three, like I stated above the odds should greatly reduce of hitting 3 scatters after 1-2 have landed, they do not, this is down to the predetermined RNG calculus of the reel strips and how many spins it should take on average before they land, real random stuff doesn`t work like this, take 25 million people (or how many combinations the UK lotto generates) each having different numbers but all the possible combinations have been covered, all these people retain the same numbers every draw, after 25 million draws do you think every single person has won, or some have won several times?.


I really hope this makes sense lol.

 

[LaHutti]

Thanks ... Let me read that again

Okay, I will try and break it down, it`s one of those things that is hard to explain, I used odds of 25/1 for arguments sake, i`ve never seen the reel strips of Cashapillar, right here we go, you have hit scatters on reels one and two disregard this for a second, what are the odds of hitting at least one scatter on reels 3-4-5?, reel 3 is roughly 15-1, reel 4 is 25-4 and 5 is roughly 19-2, if you sort these spins out to so they don`t coincide with each other as such, so I rounded them up to a number they can be equally divided by = 30, reel 3 will have landed twice, reel 4 = 5 times and reel 5 = 3 times which equals 10 scatters in 30 spins, so basically there is a scatter on one of these reels every 3 spins or so.

The odds of hitting 3 scatters reduces dramatically if you have hit scatters on reels 1-2, as you have 3 shots at hitting one, however, the odds increase if you have not Ie. you need reels 3-4-5, next time you play any slot that you know the reel strips of see how many times you miss the last 3 reels when you have scatters on reels 1 and 2.

The odds of hitting the 1st two scatters on Cashapillar are 246.48-1, the odds of hitting a third are reduced unless you set a specific reel for your 3rd scatter to land as you have 3 bites at the cherry, so imho the odds of hitting 3 scatters should be readjusted accordingly as to which reels the scatters have landed on, the odds of hitting scatters on reels 1-2-3 on Cashapillar are 3647.904/1, the odds of hitting 3 scatters after reels 1-2 scatters have landed are a whole lot less than the odds on hitting the 1st or last 3 scatters.

Basically the RNG should re-assess the chances of hitting 3 scatters as the scatters land accordingly, although this would be impossible as the RNG decides when 3 scatters should land and the reel strips follow suit, and not as is the case which entails your calculus above, over a few million spins this will pan out and the maths will tally up correctly, but, if the reel strips landed completely random and not as programmed to land after the RNG sends the relative data, then the odds of hitting 3 scatters would change drastically as to which reels they land on 1st and 2nd.


Next time you play Cashapillar take notes of how many times the 3rd scatter lands after reels 1 and 2 have landed, or even better, see how many times reels 3-4-5 scatters will land to make two scatters, as to how many times they land to make three, like I stated above the odds should greatly reduce of hitting 3 scatters after 1-2 have landed, they do not, this is down to the predetermined RNG calculus of the reel strips and how many spins it should take on average before they land, real random stuff doesn`t work like this, take 25 million people (or how many combinations the UK lotto generates) each having different numbers but all the possible combinations have been covered, all these people retain the same numbers every draw, after 25 million draws do you think every single person has won, or some have won several times?.


I really hope this makes sense lol.

 

[naththo]

I find that Cashpillar not good value for money. Playing 1 cent per line at $1 per spin is a big pffft to me. If you want win big and if you only can afford go for 5 cent per line or more to win decent on Cashpillar. Not on boring 1 cent per line. And hard to get free game is another problem as you described earlier. Try a different slot that is better value for your money. It is very hard to win big in cashpillar with only 1 cent per line too as it is extremely high variance much worse compare to the Isis is much better off with than Cashpillar really imo though. Most game I have played ever since are Mega Moolah Isis, Previously Lord of the ring now The Dark Knight, Dolphin Coast, other machine offer better than Cashpillar by miles though too.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Okay, I will try and break it down, it`s one of those things that is hard to explain, I used odds of 25/1 for arguments sake, i`ve never seen the reel strips of Cashapillar, right here we go, you have hit scatters on reels one and two disregard this for a second, what are the odds of hitting at least one scatter on reels 3-4-5?, reel 3 is roughly 15-1, reel 4 is 25-4 and 5 is roughly 19-2, if you sort these spins out to so they don`t coincide with each other as such, so I rounded them up to a number they can be equally divided by = 30, reel 3 will have landed twice, reel 4 = 5 times and reel 5 = 3 times which equals 10 scatters in 30 spins, so basically there is a scatter on one of these reels every 3 spins or so.

The odds of hitting 3 scatters reduces dramatically if you have hit scatters on reels 1-2, as you have 3 shots at hitting one, however, the odds increase if you have not Ie. you need reels 3-4-5, next time you play any slot that you know the reel strips of see how many times you miss the last 3 reels when you have scatters on reels 1 and 2.

The odds of hitting the 1st two scatters on Cashapillar are 246.48-1, the odds of hitting a third are reduced unless you set a specific reel for your 3rd scatter to land as you have 3 bites at the cherry, so imho the odds of hitting 3 scatters should be readjusted accordingly as to which reels the scatters have landed on, the odds of hitting scatters on reels 1-2-3 on Cashapillar are 3647.904/1, the odds of hitting 3 scatters after reels 1-2 scatters have landed are a whole lot less than the odds on hitting the 1st or last 3 scatters.

Basically the RNG should re-assess the chances of hitting 3 scatters as the scatters land accordingly, although this would be impossible as the RNG decides when 3 scatters should land and the reel strips follow suit, and not as is the case which entails your calculus above, over a few million spins this will pan out and the maths will tally up correctly, but, if the reel strips landed completely random and not as programmed to land after the RNG sends the relative data, then the odds of hitting 3 scatters would change drastically as to which reels they land on 1st and 2nd.


Next time you play Cashapillar take notes of how many times the 3rd scatter lands after reels 1 and 2 have landed, or even better, see how many times reels 3-4-5 scatters will land to make two scatters, as to how many times they land to make three, like I stated above the odds should greatly reduce of hitting 3 scatters after 1-2 have landed, they do not, this is down to the predetermined RNG calculus of the reel strips and how many spins it should take on average before they land, real random stuff doesn`t work like this, take 25 million people (or how many combinations the UK lotto generates) each having different numbers but all the possible combinations have been covered, all these people retain the same numbers every draw, after 25 million draws do you think every single person has won, or some have won several times?.


I really hope this makes sense lol.

I read that post last night after a few glasses of wine and couldn't make any sense of it.

Now it's the next day and I'm sober and it still doesn't make any sense

I'm not sure what you're getting at Seventh? That the reels are weighted and the actual odds of a three scatters spin aren't as expected by random chance going off the reel strips? i.e. The slot is designed to deliver lots of near misses?

 

[Zepher]

I read that post last night after a few glasses of wine and couldn't make any sense of it.

Now it's the next day and I'm sober and it still doesn't make any sense

I'm not sure what you're getting at Seventh? That the reels are weighted and the actual odds of a three scatters spin aren't as expected by random chance going off the reel strips? i.e. The slot is designed to deliver lots of near misses?

It would appear so.. I dunno. That post has confuckulated the hell out of me tbh

 

[Balthazar]

I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each reel is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.

It's a random number generator and each number is associated with a win or a loss. So you send the request, the server sends back the random number, your software knows what the number is and "stops" the reels accordingly. I'm afraid that how many symbols that are present on each reel is irrelevant.

How video slots work:

-Random number generator is running all the time (even when you're not playing)
-As soon as you hit "spin" it stops on a number (ex: number 382,328)
-The software goes to the "winning/losing chart" to see what that number means (ex: number 382,328 = cherry cherry bar)
-Software orders the reels to "stop" on cherry cherry bar

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each real is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.

It's a random number generator and each number is associated with a win or a loss. So you send the request, the server sends back the random number, your software knows what the number is and "stops" the reels accordingly. I'm afraid that how many symbols that are present on each reel is irrelevant.

How video slots work:

-Random number generator is running all the time (even when you're not playing)
-As soon as you hit "spin" it stops on a number (ex: number 382,328)
-The software goes to the "winning/losing chart" to see what that number means (ex: number 382,328 = cherry cherry bar)
-Software orders the reels to "stop" at a cherry cherry bar

As I understand it, in the past at least, MG's video slots reel strips were 'genuine', insofar as you could work out the T-RTP from the reel strips and the true random chance of each of them landing on any given stop.

AFAIK, that isn't the case for their more recent video slots, whereby the reel strips are indeed just a representation of what the RNG has called and nothing more. (As such they appear to be weighted to show near misses and suchlike.)

 

[rockycatt]

As I understand it, in the past at least, MG's video slots reel strips were 'genuine', insofar as you could work out the T-RTP from the reel strips and the true random chance of each of them landing on any given stop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
?? when did this change take place ??

 

[Nifty29]

I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each reel is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.

It's a random number generator and each number is associated with a win or a loss. So you send the request, the server sends back the random number, your software knows what the number is and "stops" the reels accordingly. I'm afraid that how many symbols that are present on each reel is irrelevant.

How video slots work:

-Random number generator is running all the time (even when you're not playing)
-As soon as you hit "spin" it stops on a number (ex: number 382,328)
-The software goes to the "winning/losing chart" to see what that number means (ex: number 382,328 = cherry cherry bar)
-Software orders the reels to "stop" on cherry cherry bar

You are incorrect.

RTG real series slots work exactly like that I.e. the TRTP is controlled by the number of stops on each reel.....which is why they're called real series slots.

@rockycatt.

Chopley is merely speculating. No one knows when changes were made because no one knows IF changes were made (except for chopley obviously....in fact he can name the very first slot that used this "New" method, and point out the differences between it and the old ones......can't you chop)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Chopley is merely speculating. No one knows when changes were made because no one knows IF changes were made (except for chopley obviously....in fact he can name the very first slot that used this "New" method, and point out the differences between it and the old ones......can't you chop)

I was pretty sure I'd read it in more than one thread here at CM, hopefully someone can confirm.

We know they weight their basic reel slots (Tunzamunni being the most blatant example I can think of, which drops the progressive jackpot sevens combo above and below the winline with stunningly tedious regularity), so I see no reason for them not to do so with their multi line video slots.

Then you have the fact that a lot of slots use completely different reels for free spins/bonus features, IR springs immediately to mind, where it's really obvious in Wild Desire and on the Rolling Reels free spins round - how do you work out a T-RTP for those slots based on the reels alone?

Didn't someone work out the T-RTP for Mega Moolah based on the reel strips alone and it came out at over 100%? Which meant there had to be weighting going on or the slot would have basically been a cash dispenser. I've definitely seen a thread about that here at CM. (Some MG slot anyway, even if it wasn't Mega Moolah.)

 

[Balthazar]

As I understand it, in the past at least, MG's video slots reel strips were 'genuine', insofar as you could work out the T-RTP from the reel strips and the true random chance of each of them landing on any given stop.

Well you can quite easily work the T-RTP with the RNG (all they have to do is add or remove winning numbers), like they do in land based casinos. Why would the reels be "genuine"? I don't see any advantage and it's going against logic. If the reels were genuine, the winning combinations would be generated locally, which would be begging for trouble.

 

[Balthazar]

You are incorrect.

I was explaining how land based video slots work and I'm not incorrect, sir. This is public information so I encourage you to do some research on the subject.

 

[KasinoKing]

I've a question for you guys...

Why are you implying that it works like mechanical slots with X number of symbols on each reel? We know for a fact that that's not how real life video slots work, so why would it be any different online?

The X number of symbols on each reel is only a skin and has nothing to do with the result. I see no logical reason why it would be different online than regular video slots, especially since they have to receive the "answer" (aka spin result) from the server after the request.

I'm sorry - but they ARE different online - whether you want to see it or not.
Not all online slots though, I grant you that, but the majority.

Basically there are 4 different types of slots available online, which I would describe like this:
1. AWP - you basically have to "fill up" the slot before you have ANY chance of getting a top pay-out. These slots are "controlled" by the software to produce a set RTP. (In the UK these games are also called Fruit Machines).
2. "Bingo Slots" - The outcome of a spin is decided by a "lottery type" draw within the software. The reels are than displayed in the appropriate configuration to give the corresponding win. These slots can also be "compensated" by the software to produce a set RTP. (Some people also call this type of slot an AWP)
3. "Weighted slots" - The odds of a symbol landing on a win-line is NOT proportional to the number of symbols on the reel; There can be the same number of each symbol on identical reel-strips for all reels, but the chances of any given symbol landing on the win-line are different for each symbol and/or reel. (e.g. the chance of hitting a cherry on each reel could be 1:5, while the chance of hitting the jackpot symbol could be 1:50 on one reel, 1:75 on the next reel, etc..). These slots are still 100% random and the RTP is achieved by the odds of each symbol hitting and the pay-table.
4. Random Video Slots - on these the outcome of any spin is completely random and all wins are formed 100% by chance; All the symbols on each of the reels have exactly equal odds of landing on the win-line. The RTP is governed solely by the reel layouts & the pay-table.

MicroGaming for example, have at least three types in their casinos:
Type 1: clearly marked as AWPs.
Type 3: most (if not all) of their 3-reel slots, and a couple of their older 5-reel slots.
Type 4: all the other 5-reel slots - known as "Bonus Video Slots"

The main problem for the online gambler, is that no software (that I know of) tells the players whether they are playing a type 2, 3 or type 4 slot. (Type 1s are usually very easy to spot, but even a few of them might be hard to differentiate).

KK

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So what's your feeling about modern MG video slots then KK?

For me they're Category 3, not 4.

 

[aceking123]

well got to say had my withdrawal & deposit info back over a few years to be honest wasnt as bad as i first thought , so it seems im on another dry spell again , so going by the fact of viewing my deposits looks like i shall indeed be back playing at red , seeing as im never going to get treated anywhere better than i do , looks like im back on board for the rest of the year )

 

[KasinoKing]

So what's your feeling about modern MG video slots then KK?

For me they're Category 3, not 4.

For me they're definitely type 4.
I can't prove that of course, but that's what I believe.

KK

 

[Balthazar]

I'm sorry - but they ARE different online - whether you want to see it or not.

Hi KK,

I appreciate your answer. I originally wrote a long reply but then decided to keep it simple.

For obvious basic security reasons, spin results are not and cannot be generated locally (on your PC), that's why you can't play while you're offline and sometimes the spins will go on forever (can't communicate with server). Do we agree on that?

 

[KasinoKing]

Hi KK,

I appreciate your answer. I originally wrote a long reply but then decided to keep it simple.

For obvious basic security reasons, spin results are not and cannot be generated locally (on your PC), that's why you can't play while you're offline and sometimes the spins will go on forever (can't communicate with server). Do we agree on that?

Yes, that's true... for all softwares except Cryptologic.
With Crypto you can play offline (for fun, obviously!) and the software uses an RNG on your own PC.
All other softwares use an RNG on their own server - both for fun and real money play.

KK

 

[ChopleyIOM]

For me they're definitely type 4.
I can't prove that of course, but that's what I believe.

KK

So you think that the reels on something like IR roll 'naturally'?

Either they're perniciously designed or they're dreadfully weighted, the scatters near misses, the wild symbol near misses, all occur with tedious regularity.

I'm not even sure IR uses reel strips in the traditional sense? When you've got two scatters and get the long spins for the third scatter, the strip that you see has a sort of repeating pattern on it not consistent with a 'true' reel.

It's hard to explain and I ain't got any MG casinos installed, but that's how I remember it anyway. Like a scatter could roll past and you'd think 'Oh I've missed it' and then another one drops in to make the three scatters, despite it not being in that position on the reel, if you get my drift.

 

[De Beuker]

So you think that the reels on something like IR roll 'naturally'?

Either they're perniciously designed or they're dreadfully weighted, the scatters near misses, the wild symbol near misses, all occur with tedious regularity.

I'm not even sure IR uses reel strips in the traditional sense? When you've got two scatters and get the long spins for the third scatter, the strip that you see has a sort of repeating pattern on it not consistent with a 'true' reel.

It's hard to explain and I ain't got any MG casinos installed, but that's how I remember it anyway. Like a scatter could roll past and you'd think 'Oh I've missed it' and then another one drops in to make the three scatters, despite it not being in that position on the reel, if you get my drift.

That you see a scatter pass, then hit is because of the 'snap in' that MG uses.
The reels 'snap' to the desired position at the end of each spin.

I still agree with you on those new games though, I think they are not 100% random anymore.
Free spins in IR for example, the way the Wild Vine always puts the wilds on the centre and/or last reel, exept when its time to pay, then you see it can also put them on the other 3 reels.

And.. a few months ago I had something weird happening on IR.
Got a Wild Desire, and the sound of the coins dropping from the win just went on.
A few spins after I got free spins, and the game took me to the Great Hall of Spins before the first reel had even landed.
I heard the scatters hit in the background.
Took the Amber FS, and started the free spins with 960 (or so) coins in my winbox?!
As I could not see what had hit beside the 3 scatters I thought I must have hit something along with the scatters.
But free spin number 9 paid exactly the amount already showing in my winbox, minus the 0.60 for the 3 scatters.
All other FS paid zero.

So, the game somehow already knew what I was going to win in my 10 free spins before they even started.

And nope Nifty, I dont have any screenshots to prove that what I'm saying is true, you'll have to take my word for it, if not, I couldn't care less to be honest.
I just know for sure now that results from free spins, at least on this game, are predeterment, not random.
Makes me wonder what more is maybe not so random as we think?

In the end we'll never know how those games work exactly.
I do know I love them as they are, Truly Random or not.
And it doesn't hurt to discuss thoughts about it, right?

 

[Nifty29]

For me they're definitely type 4.
I can't prove that of course, but that's what I believe.

KK

CONSPIRACY THEORIST!!!



@DeBeuker

I agree that features/bonus games are different on some slots, and may well just be "eye candy" and pre-determined. I think most people agree on that part.

However, the standard game is a different kettle of fish.

Nice to know that you care too

 

[Balthazar]

Yes, that's true... for all softwares except Cryptologic.
With Crypto you can play offline (for fun, obviously!) and the software uses an RNG on your own PC.
All other softwares use an RNG on their own server - both for fun and real money play.

KK

So we agree that:
1- it's server side
2- it's RNG's

Then why are you thinking that the symbols on the reels matter?

-Software sends request to server
-Server stops RNG and obtains number
-Server sends number to software
-Software shows the screen associated with that number

In fact, the slot could be text-only and it would work exactly the same. The reels are only a skin to express a result.

Imagine that, a text-only "slot" with the same system...

Spin...
You win $3.00
Spin...
You win the 10 free spins bonus and the result of these spins is $14.75
Spin...
You lose

etc

 

[binary128]

Yes, that's true... for all softwares except Cryptologic.
With Crypto you can play offline (for fun, obviously!) and the software uses an RNG on your own PC.
All other softwares use an RNG on their own server - both for fun and real money play.

KK

KK,

I don't mean to imply that you are "winging it" when I ask how confident you are with the part of your statement "All other softwares use an RNG on their own server - both for fun and real money play."

The part of that statement in which I am most interested is that all other softwares use a server RNG for fun play.

I have this nagging memory of at least one, and perhaps more, Flash Casinos that use the client's machine for random numbers when playing for fun.

(I also have a vague memory of some Flash software supplier, ultimately labeled "Rogue" in the WizardOfVegas forum, who was quite up front in saying that their play-for-fun Casino was programmed to return more wins. Their logic was that play-for-fun should be "more fun".)

Chris

 

[skyhy]

Randomness

I once got the feature on Moonshine with 3 consecutive spins...if that helps...not that any of the 3 gave me anything worthwhile!

 

[me_and_ed]

MG is killing me, made my last deposits this week at 32Red, closed the rest of my MG accounts, have lost in excess of 5k/mth (deposits) for the last 5 mths, no cashout, very bad streak, nobody can be this unlucky, cannot even get playthrough, seriously pathetic. I dont play all tht much at 32RED because they do not support my preferred deposit method, I will leave the account open incase I get the urge and know I can flush and get paid promptly though, my last MG casino.

 

[KasinoKing]

So you think that the reels on something like IR roll 'naturally'?

Either they're perniciously designed or they're dreadfully weighted, the scatters near misses, the wild symbol near misses, all occur with tedious regularity.

Yes, I do.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "near misses" though - IR is a "all ways pay" slot - so you either hit the symbol, or it's not on your screen at all.
As De Beuker explained, anything spinning past which does not land on your screen is just "eye candy".

So we agree that:
1- it's server side
2- it's RNG's

Then why are you thinking that the symbols on the reels matter?

-Software sends request to server
-Server stops RNG and obtains number
-Server sends number to software
-Software shows the screen associated with that number

Technically, yes you are right.
As long as every single combination has the exact same chance of appearing, then it amounts to the exact same end result as the RNG being used to determine where each reel stops separately.

e.g. Thunderstruck 1 has 30, 30, 30, 30 & 44 symbols on the reels - so there are 35,640,000 possible different combinations.
So the RNG may well be just programmed to pick a random number between 1 and 35,640,000 and display the result.

KK,

I don't mean to imply that you are "winging it" when I ask how confident you are with the part of your statement "All other softwares use an RNG on their own server - both for fun and real money play."

To the best of my knowledge then. Even I don't know everything!

KK

 

[whodatrec]

Today i`ve been playing at comeon casino and i actually withrew 48 000,- NOK = 6582.05€ from a deposite of 2000 NOK. This casino has both Microgaming and NetEnt slots. I mostley play the NetEnt slots, but i tried a MG slot named winspin..

First it sucked my bankroll dry, but THEN i got 15 winspinns and on the first spinn it gave me 25x on all 5 paylines = 2500 NOK, then on the next spinn it hit the jackpot for 500X my bet for 10 000 NOK. It just keept on giving on all the 15 winspinns. Even tough i won, im CONVINCED MG slots are rigged in some manner. Its like the machine wanted to pay, and then it just hit everything on the same bonus round.

I went on to playing Gonzos Quest(NetEnt) and hit the free falls on 100 NOK bet total win 17000,- NOK.. This is the strange part about the NetEnt slots aswell, its like the harder you bet the looser the slots..you just gotta play the lower stakes until you "feel" the time is right then up the ante. Seen some strange behavior this time around so im starting to think even NetEnt is "Rigged" in some way. Its like when your winning it dosent mather what slots you play it pays either way. Same thing when your loosing, its like it goes into suck you dry mode and all the slots wont pay...

I used to work at a "bingo" where we had bingo slots. The customers bought a ticket with a code that they plotted into the slot to play. It diddent make any difrence what slot they picked, since all the slots where in the same network and the ticket decided the outcome of the game. Im starting to think online casinos work on the same principle.. Maybe its already decided if we win or loose when we make a deposite.

 

[Osloking]

Gratulerer! on the winnings! if i were you i would be celebrateting right now

anyway yes the slot you played is a MG AWP and they are kinda "rigged" since they suck $ till the pot is ready to throw up, and you was there in right time, try few spins with lower bets to see if it complety dead

 

[rainmaker]

Today i`ve been playing at comeon casino and i actually withrew 48 000,- NOK = 6582.05€ from a deposite of 2000 NOK. This casino has both Microgaming and NetEnt slots. I mostley play the NetEnt slots, but i tried a MG slot named winspin..

First it sucked my bankroll dry, but THEN i got 15 winspinns and on the first spinn it gave me 25x on all 5 paylines = 2500 NOK, then on the next spinn it hit the jackpot for 500X my bet for 10 000 NOK. It just keept on giving on all the 15 winspinns. Even tough i won, im CONVINCED MG slots are rigged in some manner. Its like the machine wanted to pay, and then it just hit everything on the same bonus round.

I went on to playing Gonzos Quest(NetEnt) and hit the free falls on 100 NOK bet total win 17000,- NOK.. This is the strange part about the NetEnt slots aswell, its like the harder you bet the looser the slots..you just gotta play the lower stakes until you "feel" the time is right then up the ante. Seen some strange behavior this time around so im starting to think even NetEnt is "Rigged" in some way. Its like when your winning it dosent mather what slots you play it pays either way. Same thing when your loosing, its like it goes into suck you dry mode and all the slots wont pay...

I used to work at a "bingo" where we had bingo slots. The customers bought a ticket with a code that they plotted into the slot to play. It diddent make any difrence what slot they picked, since all the slots where on the same network and the ticked decided the outcome of the game. Im starting to think online casinos work on the same principle.. Maybe its already decided if we win or loose when we make a deposite.

Gratulerer ja!

What a nice run! I have played at Comeon, but never the game Win Spinner (I have a tendency to go straight to the NetEnt section he). I see it is marked as "hot" at ComeOn now

You should post some screenshots in the winner thread!

 

[whodatrec]

Takker!

Yeah, i tought about taking a screenshot, but i use a mac so im not sure how to lol, I guess i forgot it in all the excitement
Hit a big win on Thunderfist aswell alitle over 12000 NOK on 25 bet Cant wait until i get my winnings, gon spend them on some treats for myeself.
Its a strange thing tough, when im winning at NetEnt(not the first time) It gives a huge win, then it goes completley dead. But if i move to another slot it might give a big win again.

Off topic:

You Norwegian guys, do you know the rules for taxes? Do we need to pay taxes on winnings? I read its EU so they cant charge taxes aslong as the casino is in the Europeen Union?

 

[Osloking]

You Norwegian guys, do you know the rules for taxes? Do we need to pay taxes on winnings? I read its EU so they cant charge taxes aslong as the casino is in the Europeen Union?

it sucks right? why should they charge tax when they do not pull lose from tax? according to norwegian law, you must pay 26% tax on wins over 10.000kr.

but you have several options to avoid this, as i know many poker players in norway i have learned many ways to avoid getting robbed.

i send you now a PM regarding "let me keep my god damn winnings tax free!"

 

[Azriel47]

I will first say that this is not a sore loser post as many we have seen in past, and i know it's not popular topic, buuut, please read.

i want to talk about my sessions at 32red in longer perspective. its been quite bad, as you see right after the 1st january my play changed suddenly to this very boring and really not enjoyable at all ride, when you just keep depositing one after another in months after months.

But i kept on hoping it was just a losing streak, since i got much loooove for 32red and the crew, but after 7-8 months with constant losing streak it bugs you really bad, I know that there is not 32Red's fault but the MG software to blame, but in same time, i play at 32red not MG, if you understand me on this one? like buying iphone from eletric store and it becomes damaged, you do blame electric store when something happens to the iphone and not to apple (I sucks to compare)... i want also to point that i dont want to win a penthouse, all i ask for is more playtime, lower your bets you say? well i do! nothing helps!

note that i am a low roller where i am not comfortable bets over 1$

i want to point also that i have had many issue regarding my account, like keep disconnected when i finnally have a good session, my cash is suddenly turned into bonus. reversed money is in bonus etc..

I appreciate the many bonuses i have received through these months, but it helped really not much when my RTP is so low you could not even make it 5x

thanks to a user (Jufo) I have sent him my log for last 6 months (32Red could not give me any longer than that .. ) that he can analyse my sessions.

i just spoke with Phil to find out how much money i have deposited since my losing streak and u can see right under. note that i am way under this amount but this is for 2012.

Phil: Hi, Welcome to the casino, how can I help?
Me: hello phill, i need to know how much i have deposited since 1st january to today
Phil: ok, May I take your login name or number please?
Me: ************
Me: ***********
Phil: I'll just have a look for you 2 minutes.
Phil: Hi sorry for keeping you, since 1st January £9541.83
Me: and how much withdraw?
Phil: £3370
Me: thanks Phil
Phil: No problem
Me: we speaks soon, bye for now )

anyway i just had to tell my fellow casinomeister this since you guys understand it better (my closest friends do not gamble)

so to my point and a question, would you rather continue and hope for better days coming or would you show white flag and move on?

Id put things on the backburner for a while positive/negative wise prolly time for some time out ...go fishing or something ...you will allways get your wins and losses its all up to the RNG end of the day ..and if your lucky enough to hit big all and well ..but its not allways like this...I would show the white flag ..but not move on keep them on the backburner 32red is a good casino and they pay out fast and come highly accredited .. but yeah I would take some time out for consolidation and time to think.
[And ill pm something]