32Red / Kindred stole my remaining players today

Dave

Engineer
webmeister
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Location
North America
Kindred / 32 Red started stealing from affiliates with their retroactive terms last year (there were a few threads about this here at CM), and today they finally got to my account.

I promoted 32 Red and Roxy for over a decade, and today all of the players that I ever referred to these casinos are now gone. Untagged, stolen, whatever you want to call it. I will never earn residuals from them again. All of this money (which helped me pay bills and buy food) now goes into the pockets of the already wealthy owners of Unibet.

Dear David,

This notice is in relation to Affiliate ID: xxxxx

On 21st March 2018, we contacted you via this email address notifying you about changes to our affiliate program Terms & Conditions. One of the changes made was the addition of the clause below:

13.2. The Company may terminate this Agreement immediately by written notice if:
5. If the Affiliate does not generate any New Depositing Customers for a period of 6 months, except in markets where affiliate activity is restricted (e.g. Netherlands)

During the period of 14th August 2018 - 14th February 2019, your affiliate account highlighted above has delivered 0 NDPs to our program.

As such and in accordance with our program Terms & Conditions, we are now terminating our affiliate partnership on 15/02/2019. If you have an under limit commission balance, or have earnt any commission between 1st February - 15th February, this will be paid as part of next month’s commission process and you should expect to receive these funds towards the end of March 2019.

Kind Regards,
Your Kindred Affiliates Team

Bryan, please think about this. Should these brands really continue to be accredited? They violated your own accreditation policies. When other programs did the same thing in the past, you did something about it.
 
Last edited:

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
That is clearly rogue behaviour. I get that Mark is a decent rep, and I'm sure he hasn't had anything to do with this, but there is no way they should be allowed to stay accredited if they are doing this. Sky were removed for have a 5 NDP and reducing the commissions if you didn't get them, but to completely close accounts, thats theft pure and simple.
 

Mark_32Red

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
32Red Marketing Dpt
Hi @Dave

Thanks for bringing my attention to this thread via PM.

I will raise this with the affiliate team but based on previous replies I don’t expect them to engage on this decision on the forum.

Have you interacted with your affiliate manager at all? In previous discussions of this kind there were agreements put in place to prevent this happening.

Regards
Mark
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
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mm3
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Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
It's funny how every time an affiliate programme 'changes platform' that we always seem to lose income and players without fail. Why do most even need to move platforms and go through the hassle of migrating players? If I could put my stats on a graph for each time this has happened (Evoke-MrGreen, Casino Agents-CasinoCommission) you'd laugh at the monthly income line and the time it plummeted.....:(
 

Dave

Engineer
webmeister
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Location
North America
I have 2 affiliate accounts with Kindred Affiliates (3 actually, but one of them never generated any revenue under the new program).

With the account that was closed today, there weren't any warning emails leading up to the termination -- i.e. no email where they first slash the rate to 10% before ultimately closing the account. They just went ahead and closed it.

Closed: engineer / 81730515
Currently set to 10%: 32redengineer / 320656361

Why won't they talk about this on the forum? That is ridiculous.

What do you suggest I do -- email the affiliate manager and tell them that I do not accept with the new terms, nor do I accept the closure of my account, and that I expect them to honor the original deal that I had with 32Red and Roxy Affiliates? I already did that. Crickets.

They are stealing not just from me, but from dozens of other affiliates as well, starting in 2018 -- there was a big thread about it here.

Quotas were not in place when I joined 32Red Affiliates and Roxy Affiliates 12 years ago, and I will not be blackmailed into sending traffic to any brand just so that I can continue to receive what was supposed to be mine in the first place. I never agreed to a situation where I would earn only 10%, and I never agreed to sending X number of players in order to prevent my past players from being stolen.

If Kindred honors the original deals I had with 32Red and Roxy, then maybe (BIG maybe) I will un-rogue them and consider promoting them again in the future.
 

Nicola

Closed Account
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Location
Malta
So glad I blacklisted all Kindred sites (except 32red and Roxy) last year if this is the way it is turning out. Brings back memories of how Big Win affiliates suddenly started closing accounts and de-tagging players when they brought in new terms.

Kindred really seem to have it in for affiliates :(
 

bonustreak

Senior Member
webmeister
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Location
Home Office
They got me as well Dave. I managed to talk them into re-opening my account but I am sure in 6 months the same thing will happen again!
 

Dave

Engineer
webmeister
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Location
North America
I am trying to get them to leave my account open as well, but they didn't respond to the email I sent them on Friday. I emailed them again just now (Monday, noon my time).
 

Dave

Engineer
webmeister
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Location
North America
Update...

Ryan Henderson from Kindred Affiliates refuses to leave my "engineer" account open.

Furthermore, Ryan went out of his way to close my other account, "32redengineer," which has active players in it as we speak! The account has a negative balance at the moment, which will absolutely reverse itself -- but when it does, I won't earn a cent from those players because Kindred and Ryan Henderson decided that they don't want to pay me anymore.

@Casinomeister, why is Kindred / 32 Red still Accredited? They are very clearly breaking your Accreditation standards, and you have rogued other programs for doing exactly what Kindred is doing now.

@Nicola, you should consider adding 32 Red and Roxy to your rogue list at this point, IMO. My players were at these brands, and now they are gone. 32 Red and Roxy don't deserve special treatment -- they are all under the Kindred umbrella.

@Mark_32Red, you seem like a good person, and I think you would be doing yourself a favor if you moved on to a more reputable company. 32 Red was great back in the day, but the music died the day Ed Ware sold the company and walked away with £38 million. Affiliates and hard-working people such as yourself helped build the brand, and now look at it. Owned and operated by highly unethical people who don't give a flying f*** about my bills or my family.
 

Nicola

Closed Account
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Location
Malta
It would pain me too much to rogue 32Red. I have the greatest respect for @Mark_32Red and because of this alone I don't mind it being a loss-leader.

The whole Kindred affiliate take-over was a bad decision for 32Red. You also have to look at how 32Red has gone downhill over the past few years too. The lack of enthusiasm at affiliate conferences along with no future gaming provider expansion makes me think a slow downhill trend.
 

Biti

Full Member
webmeister
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Location
Panama-City
Affiliates and hard-working people such as yourself helped build the brand, and now look at it. Owned and operated by highly unethical people who don't give a flying f*** about my bills or my family.
Exactly. Affiliates are just a cost for them. They check with their legal team if there's a risk that retroactively changing the terms they've once made with their legal team is a risk. And if not, they just change it and enforce it.

In the end, they feel responsible just for their shareholders. Not for their affiliates.

I think more brands will follow suit. Every brand will have to look how to reduce costs and s***** over their affiliates is on top of the list of many.
 

GI Joe

Webmeister
webmeister
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
LA
I hope the same. Kindred are the worst. Slow in answers and they do steel players from us.
They simply closed my account with the 100+´s of players. Most players where old players but active from time to time. So annoying!
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
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Most affiliate programmes moving platform or ownership means 'migration' which is usually a pseudonym for 'Financial restructuring leading to reduction of, or annulment of obligations'. There is nothing you can do about it as the terms permit almost anything, if you read them closely. If you're taking over a casino business, you and the vendor both want as few financial obligations as possible. You gotta pay players, but not affiliates. That's the way it is.
 

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