32Red hmmm

Seventh777

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if slots in 32red are not paying you right now, try play at Dash and Golden lounge.

Just remember, do not claim the SUB unless you were told by CSR.

Sometime, it does the trick.

Or try a completely different software, also, if anyone has a strategy involving the same slots based on recent payouts from these, then, you are basically cutting your own throat, the more you play the same slot the more you are exposed to it`s TRTP, which as we all know, no matter what it`s actual RTP is, it has an house edge, once you have done well on a slot, change slots ;).
 

ChopleyIOM

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the more you play the same slot the more you are exposed to it`s TRTP, which as we all know, no matter what it`s actual RTP is, it has an house edge, once you have done well on a slot, change slots ;).

Yes you are correct that a player will get closer to a slot's T-RTP the longer he plays it (literally tens and hundreds of thousands of spins, though), but it's an absolute nonsense to suggest that a player should move on from a slot once he's done well on it, assuming it is a truly random slot.

On a truly random game there is no 'memory' and no 'compensation', each and every spin of the reels is 100% independent from every other spin of the reels.

If you double your bankroll on a slot then it makes no difference if you carry on playing that slot or move on to something else - your chances of continuing to do well or starting to do badly are not affected in any way by the fact you just doubled your bankroll on it.

Do remember this only applies to a genuinely random slot, however.
 

ChopleyIOM

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<< SNIP >>

There's a reason why all the software makers are releasing high variance games as standard the past few years.....it's what players really want, even if they sometimes say they don't, and it is for THAT reason, and not TRTP etc, that they are "money spinners".

Well, that's it as I don't want to make it any longer or you'll think a certain other member has hacked my account :D

There's nothing I really disagree with there Nifty, however it would be interesting to see how MG would fare with a new low variance slot if they gave it all the glitz and glamour that they're chucking at the likes of IR and The Dark Knight.

NetEnt seem to do perfectly well with a far wider variance in their games, it strikes me that MG just don't really care to release lower variance slots any more, probably because the higher variance slots are better money spinners for the reasons I've already stated - they invite more play, bigger swings, more losses, and more deposits, which I suspect is why MG tend to stick with them.

Personally speaking I like lower variance slots, the 'all or nothing' profile of MG's recent efforts just doesn't appeal to me, I like playtime as much as winning. Hitting big in the first 10 minutes and then having to call an end to the session isn't fun for me at all, if anything I just feel 'cheated' out of my playtime.
 

Mouche12

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There's nothing I really disagree with there Nifty, however it would be interesting to see how MG would fare with a new low variance slot if they gave it all the glitz and glamour that they're chucking at the likes of IR and The Dark Knight.

NetEnt seem to do perfectly well with a far wider variance in their games, it strikes me that MG just don't really care to release lower variance slots any more, probably because the higher variance slots are better money spinners for the reasons I've already stated - they invite more play, bigger swings, more losses, and more deposits, which I suspect is why MG tend to stick with them.

Personally speaking I like lower variance slots, the 'all or nothing' profile of MG's recent efforts just doesn't appeal to me, I like playtime as much as winning. Hitting big in the first 10 minutes and then having to call an end to the session isn't fun for me at all, if anything I just feel 'cheated' out of my playtime.

My thoughts exactly, and NetEnt slots give me (often) a lot of playtime. I'll stick to them for a while after having cashed out €1000 on a € 200 deposit at Maxino, I just have this feeling that this casino is going to spoil me again soon with some goodies. An optimistic spirit and a bunch of lower-variance slots should do the trick! ;)
 

KasinoKing

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NetEnt seem to do perfectly well with a far wider variance in their games, it strikes me that MG just don't really care to release lower variance slots any more, probably because the higher variance slots are better money spinners for the reasons I've already stated - they invite more play, bigger swings, more losses, and more deposits, which I suspect is why MG tend to stick with them.
Actually I have to disagree with your here: MG do also release low variance slots - but maybe some people just don't notice them...?
For instance, the 2 they released last month, Twisted Circus and Phantom Cash are both pretty low variance IMO.

KK
 

ChopleyIOM

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Actually I have to disagree with your here: MG do also release low variance slots - but maybe some people just don't notice them...?
For instance, the 2 they released last month, Twisted Circus and Phantom Cash are both pretty low variance IMO.

KK

I will defer to your knowledge there KK, I haven't played MG for months now, but my experience at the time was they were on something of a high variance roll. (Plus all the other stuff I've done time enough times already with regards to my opinions of MG :))

Either way I still see no reason to play MG, even if you accept their slots are fair and random, they're ~95% and NetEnt are ~97%, seems like a no-brainer to me.
 

Nifty29

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My thoughts exactly, and NetEnt slots give me (often) a lot of playtime. I'll stick to them for a while after having cashed out €1000 on a € 200 deposit at Maxino, I just have this feeling that this casino is going to spoil me again soon with some goodies. An optimistic spirit and a bunch of lower-variance slots should do the trick! ;)

Pretty soon you will be complaining that NetEnt are no good either.

It doesn't really matter where you play. If you play regularly you will experience the same bad streaks as you did with MGS or RTG etc.
 

dionysus

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Actually I have to disagree with your here: MG do also release low variance slots - but maybe some people just don't notice them...?
For instance, the 2 they released last month, Twisted Circus and Phantom Cash are both pretty low variance IMO.

KK

I'm certainly no math or rtp wizard, but I've found Phantom Cash to lay somewhere between medium to high myself
 

harrys99

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It doesn't really matter where you play. If you play regularly you will experience the same bad streaks as you did with MGS or RTG etc.

From personal experience I agree-regular player/depositer=wonderful highs and terrible lows. I accept this as the price I pay for my entertainment value and move on or play on.

It's a choice-I make it and I accept responsibilty for it.
 

Seventh777

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Yes you are correct that a player will get closer to a slot's T-RTP the longer he plays it (literally tens and hundreds of thousands of spins, though), but it's an absolute nonsense to suggest that a player should move on from a slot once he's done well on it, assuming it is a truly random slot.

On a truly random game there is no 'memory' and no 'compensation', each and every spin of the reels is 100% independent from every other spin of the reels.

If you double your bankroll on a slot then it makes no difference if you carry on playing that slot or move on to something else - your chances of continuing to do well or starting to do badly are not affected in any way by the fact you just doubled your bankroll on it.

Do remember this only applies to a genuinely random slot, however.

My comment was based on several sessions on a slot, not just a quick hit and leave, I hit my 1st ever wilds/sapphs on consecutive deposits at 1st GoWild then directly after at Golden Lounge, how long was it till I hit my 3rd?, i`ve also had great back to back sessions on TSII leaving me a few £K up across several casinos, then boom.

Over many many sessions do you have a better chance of making more cash from playing a single slot, or, playing several? ;).

The past few weeks i`ve been playing a lot of slots i`ve never played before, with mixed results, no huge hits like BDBA or a TSII scatter feature, but, overall i`ve made an ok profit, a recent .50p bet hit.....



EWFSStacked.jpg



I used to be a stickler for the same handful of slots, i`m not now, and atm it`s doing well ;).
 

Seventh777

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Assuming that they all have the same RTP, it makes absolutely no difference.

Well yes it does, say for arguments sake you are playing a slot that has 50 different ways of hitting a jackpot and 50 million possible reel combinations, that`s a 1 in a million chance of hitting the jackpot, you could be standing next to someone playing an identical slot, you hit the jackpot within a few spins, the other guy fails to hit one after hundreds of spins, you walk away a few grand in profit, he walks away a few grand out of pocket, yet you have both been playing a slot with an identical RTP of say 96%.

Most of the time we spend playing our overall RTP per session will probably be close or a lot lower than the TRTP, whereas a payout day it`s considerably higher. if RTP`s were that predictable your average w/r would be a walk in the park ;).

For a high variance slot to payout it`s huge jackpot and increasing some lucky dude`s RTP to 10,000% or so, it has to balance the books somehow, if they all hovered around their RTP`s there wouldn`t be any jackpots, would there :mad:.
 

ChopleyIOM

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For a high variance slot to payout it`s huge jackpot and increasing some lucky dude`s RTP to 10,000% or so, it has to balance the books somehow, if they all hovered around their RTP`s there wouldn`t be any jackpots, would there :mad:.

But that's not how random slots work, a random slot doesn't 'have to balance the books' insofar as it has no knowledge of what it's done before or plan for what it's going to do in the future. It doesn't care what anyone else playing the same slot has or hasn't won, it doesn't care if you just won the jackpot 10 spins ago, the chances of you getting the jackpot again are exactly the same as they were 10 spins ago.

It's like a roulette wheel, after 10 blacks on the trot it doesn't 'have' to spin a red next, or in the next 5 spins, or the next 10 spins, the chances of hitting red or black are always identical on every single spin of the wheel.

A random slot machine is just a roulette wheel with millions of possible outcomes instead of 37.

Choosing which slot to play DOES make a difference in terms of variance, but beyond that, assuming the same RTPs, it's just a case of picking whichever ones you think look and sound nicest.
 

Seventh777

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But that's not how random slots work, a random slot doesn't 'have to balance the books' insofar as it has no knowledge of what it's done before or plan for what it's going to do in the future. It doesn't care what anyone else playing the same slot has or hasn't won, it doesn't care if you just won the jackpot 10 spins ago, the chances of you getting the jackpot again are exactly the same as they were 10 spins ago.

It's like a roulette wheel, after 10 blacks on the trot it doesn't 'have' to spin a red next, or in the next 5 spins, or the next 10 spins, the chances of hitting red or black are always identical on every single spin of the wheel.

A random slot machine is just a roulette wheel with millions of possible outcomes instead of 37.

Choosing which slot to play DOES make a difference in terms of variance, but beyond that, assuming the same RTPs, it's just a case of picking whichever ones you think look and sound nicest.

We all agree on one aspect which is - The longer we play a slot the more we are exposed to it`s RTP, so. if a slot has just paid out big and the identical slot next to it has done the complete opposite, then doesn`t it stand to reason that you have more chance of winning on the one that is currently way below it`s TRTP than the one that is well above it, the longer you play on it?.

The RNG picks the result of your next spin, which in turn is based on any possible outcome that the slot is capable of producing, the RNG calculus is based on the RTP`s setting and the maximum combination of spins Ie:- If you have a RTP of 95% this 95% is worked out on how much would be returned to the player, if they have spun the maximum amount of possible spins that the respective slot can produce. These figures have to be set against some form of solid input to calculate the RTP, which is, by all means an intent, the maximum combinations per spin that slot is possible of producing ;).
 

Balthazar

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if a slot has just paid out big and the identical slot next to it has done the complete opposite, then doesn`t it stand to reason that you have more chance of winning on the one that is currently way below it`s TRTP than the one that is well above it, the longer you play on it?.

Absolutely not. All spins are independent to each other, the spin (RNG) doesn't "know" if the machine is below or above the TRTP.

When you flip a coin, you have the same chances to hit heads or tails regardless of what happened before. The coin doesn't know what happened before. It's the same.

The reason why we can predict that you'll hit tails 50% of the time over a long period of time is because you have 50% chances to hit it every time that you flip the coin, and not because the coin will "compensate" if you hit heads 10 times in a row.
 

ChopleyIOM

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We all agree on one aspect which is - The longer we play a slot the more we are exposed to it`s RTP, so. if a slot has just paid out big and the identical slot next to it has done the complete opposite, then doesn`t it stand to reason that you have more chance of winning on the one that is currently way below it`s TRTP than the one that is well above it, the longer you play on it?.

In a word, no :D

I see Balthazar has already explained why, so what he said, basically.

T-RTP comes down to the 'law of large numbers' -
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- whether it's flipping a coin, or spinning a roulette wheel, or playing a random slot, T-RTP will be achieved over enough samples through randomness as per the law of large numbers, there is absolutely no concept whatsoever of one random slot being a 'better bet' than another identical random slot if one is massively over T-RTP and one is massively under T-RTP, your chances of hitting the jackpot on either are absolutely identical at all times.
 

Seventh777

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I hear what both you guys are saying, so, if a slot can pump out jackpots willy nilly, then there is a huge chance they can perform above their RTP, if this was the case it would cost casino`s money, something ensures these slots keep within their respective RTP`s and that something has to be the RNG, otherwise having a precise RTP would be pointless, complete randomness per spin i`m not arguing about, I`m fully aware that you can hit consecutive huge hits, but sooner or later that slot has to balance the books or there would be no need for RTP`s etc.

An over zealous slot paying out huge hits every other spin would be financial suicide, reel strip layouts and the RNG go hand in hand with a slot`s actual RTP, the day I see two screenshots showing x2 consecutive Wild Storm x5 reels wild TSII hits or x2 all reels wild on the Dark Knight Rises I will sit up and take notice.

Tossing a coin is not subject to a predetermined outcome, slots are.

Something that can happen and something that actually happens are two different ball games ;).
 

ChopleyIOM

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I hear what both you guys are saying, so, if a slot can pump out jackpots willy nilly, then there is a huge chance they can perform above their RTP, if this was the case it would cost casino`s money, something ensures these slots keep within their respective RTP`s and that something has to be the RNG, otherwise having a precise RTP would be pointless, complete randomness per spin i`m not arguing about, I`m fully aware that you can hit consecutive huge hits, but sooner or later that slot has to balance the books or there would be no need for RTP`s etc.

An over zealous slot paying out huge hits every other spin would be financial suicide, reel strip layouts and the RNG go hand in hand with a slot`s actual RTP, the day I see two screenshots showing x2 consecutive Wild Storm x5 reels wild TSII hits or x2 all reels wild on the Dark Knight Rises I will sit up and take notice.

Dude, really, no, that's not how random slots work!

You are talking about compensation, and a truly random game absolutely CANNOT BE COMPENSATED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.

You could get back-to-back 5 reels wild in Wild Desire, but the odds of it happening are absolutely astronomical.

Slots can run over their expected RTP for a day or a week or a month, but eventually, over enough spins, T-RTP is what will be achieved through sheer randomness alone and the casino will make its money off it. There is no need for any control mechanism, and if any such control mechanism existed then the slot would not be random - it would, in effect, be a cheating slot.

something ensures these slots keep within their respective RTP`s

Yes, it's called randomness and the law of large numbers. That's all there is, really.

Anything else is just superstition and nonsense :)
 

aceking123

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common sense tells you that if its a machine its designed to be programmed , yer to a point your all correct but realy the bottom line all machines are indeed compenstated hence to why you have 93.9 0r lower or higher i understand what 7th is saying choppers should know better aswell being a uk pub & club player , ive read to many times about this anything the has a % attached to it on machines has to be weighted for the outcome to become near this rtp% that is pretty much fact , like already point out if a couple of large hits were paid out , then either the machine would then take over to the rtp% overlaod back into where it should be . also it could go the other way its had to much money then payout to bring the rtp% back up , pretty much all online machines i would think are b3 catagory ( uk commision gambling ) which means they can indeed be compenstated or reflect rtp% .
 

souldragon

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sparkz,what do you mean when you say blackjack has the worst odds ever? As far as i can see their payouts are the same as any other casino.Or do you mean that your hands continually bust or that the dealer will usually hit 21 against your 20's.
 

Balthazar

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anything the has a % attached to it on machines has to be weighted for the outcome to become near this rtp% that is pretty much fact

Not true at all.

like already point out if a couple of large hits were paid out , then either the machine would then take over to the rtp% overlaod back into where it should be

Oh God. Let me share a little story.

10 years ago I was a bar manager and we had a license to operate 10 government owned video slots made by
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(the same company that makes slots for casinos all over the world). Every day, I had to take the money out, count it and look at the numbers (money in vs. money out) to make sure that everything was balancing. The RTP on these video slots was set to 94%. Every single day we had machines that paid more than they received. Sometimes we were even in the red overall which means that the 10 machines, combined, paid more money than they received. (Note that I was reseting the money counters every night, so there was no RTP "carry on to the next day").

At the end of the year, however, the RTP was always winning. There was no need to cheat or compensate, the math alone did the trick.
 

aceking123

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Not true at all.



Oh God. Let me share a little story.

10 years ago I was a bar manager and we had a license to operate 10 government owned video slots made by
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(the same company that makes slots for casinos all over the world). Every day, I had to take the money out, count it and look at the numbers (money in vs. money out) to make sure that everything was balancing. The RTP on these video slots was set to 94%. Every single day we had machines that paid more than they received. Sometimes we were even in the red overall which means that the 10 machines, combined, paid more money than they received. (Note that I was reseting the money counters every night, so there was no RTP "carry on to the next day").

At the end of the year, however, the RTP was always winning. There was no need to cheat or compensate, the math alone did the trick.

omg lol ive worked for a old company for serval years which used to be called associated leisure these where uk fruit machine sorry to tell everyone of those machine were indeed set & are still set on todays market you can spill out all the 94% these machines are indeed weighted if you ever come & play in the uk on a pub club machine you will see it states the rtp% it will also state that there is a close sequence of higher wins & jackpots , realy doesnt that tell you something , i name one machine i slot called grand slam by barcrest fruitmachines this machine i had clocked , i could tell you wether it was due to pay out £250 ( in those days ) on spending no more than 25 pounds , you can ask any uk player for uk fruit machines they will all tell you the same thing .
 

ChopleyIOM

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omg lol ive worked for a old company for serval years which used to be called associated leisure these where uk fruit machine sorry to tell everyone of those machine were indeed set & are still set on todays market you can spill out all the 94% these machines are indeed weighted if you ever come & play in the uk on a pub club machine you will see it states the rtp% it will also state that there is a close sequence of higher wins & jackpots , realy doesnt that tell you something , i name one machine i slot called grand slam by barcrest fruitmachines this machine i had clocked , i could tell you wether it was due to pay out £250 ( in those days ) on spending no more than 25 pounds , you can ask any uk player for uk fruit machines they will all tell you the same thing .

Woah dude, you're comparing apples and oranges there.

Everyone knows that UK AWPs and club fruities are compensated, we're talking about RANDOM games, which are absolutely not compensated.

They are two completely, massively different things.
 

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