32 red reverse withdrawal

[dave1888]

I won £600 at 32 red the other day and when I checked to ensure they have adhered to ukgc rules in reverse withdrawals, I see that it's still reversible. @Mark_32Red can you rectify this asap please, as I said though it might just be the download casino that was overlooked? Just to clarify please remove reverse withdrawal from 32 red download casino.

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[dave1888]

They've flushed the withdrawal now but have said they'll remove reverse withdrawal as soon as UKGC tell them to do so.

 

[Borgie]

I thought the ukgc had told them ?

 

[bamberfishcake]

Open up for flood gates for problem gamblers to reverse withdrawals then claim they wernt looked after.

No expert but risky business by 32red i think.

 

[nikantw]

IIRC (I only speed-read the news the first day) it was a simple request to not tempt players to reverse during the crisis. This can be covered with auto-flushing the withdrawal shortly after the request.

Not the same as asking the reverse option to be removed permanently.

 

[Mr Wild]

As I have mention earlier the ones that remove it lose about 30% of their profits. So not something they would not do lightly.

 

[pinnit2014]

The majority have removed it as far as i can see.

Could just give them an option then: remove it and lose 30% or we'll remove your licence and you'll lose 100% of UK rev.

 

[brianleeporter]

I thought everyone had to remove it though?

unless there’s a specific date it needs to be done by so this way people do it at the last minute.

 

[wobble33]

Just logged into my ladbrokes sports betting and withdrawl is still pending off yesterday? I too thought that the reverse rule was already in force?

I never reverse but its getting a bit of a joke that the rules are broken already.

 

[paul7388]

I am taking a guess that the removing of reversal is only a guideline and not the law.

If it was law then i would imagine the biggest sites would have complied by now.

But the fact all the main bookies sites like Ladbrokes , Coral WIlliam Hill , 32RED are all still allowing reversals would make me believe it is not compulsory.

 

[Slottery]

As I have mention earlier the ones that remove it lose about 30% of their profits. So not something they would not do lightly.

Just to be curious, how this amount is calculated?

 

[shadow123]

Mecca removed it a while ago, Grosvenor still have it which is a bit strange.
Casinos seem to be hanging on to it for dear life,perhaps they are hoping the virus will piss off soon and
the UKGC will not push the matter.They know that if they do remove it now, there would be no chance of re introducing it later.

 

[Kroffe]

Guess those who removed the reversal will go out of business pretty soon then.
No way could they lose 30% of their profits and still stay in business.

 

[Matti]

Guess those who removed the reversal will go out of business pretty soon then.
No way could they lose 30% of their profits and still stay in business.

I think you are mixing up profits and revenue. Revenue for a casino is NGR(=Wins-Bets-bonuses). Profit is whats left when everything is paid.

 

[shadow123]

It could be the last straw for some UK casinos,always hated reversals but they may be all that keeping some
places afloat.Pretty sure we will get a lot more rtp reductions as a result of banning them.

 

[colinsunderland]

IIRC (I only speed-read the news the first day) it was a simple request to not tempt players to reverse during the crisis. This can be covered with auto-flushing the withdrawal shortly after the request.

Not the same as asking the reverse option to be removed permanently.

It wasn't a simple request or guideline, its implemented into social responsibility code 3.4.1, and the wording is clear its something they have to do, not if they feel like it, there are enough 'musts' in the document to show the new measures aren't optional. Shows which operators are scummy in my opinion, its been over 3 weeks since they were instructed to do so. Coral, for example, only introduced the reverse option a few months ago so shouldn't be that hard to remove it. Others who have had it since they started, probably harder, but over 3 weeks is taking the piss.

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f) Prevent reverse withdrawal options for customers until further notice.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Hi All,

The development work required to remove the reverse withdrawal option was prioritised and if testing goes well it will be released tomorrow (Monday 8th June). The UKGC have been informed of this date.

Regards,
Mark

 

[colinsunderland]

With respect, I fail to see how any casino couldn't remove it within a couple of hours, let alone 3 weeks.
Go to the template for that page, remove the code for reverse. Even if you can't remove the button immediately because of formatting errors or something, the text on it could be changed from 'reverse' to 'not available'. Even if in the system it still shows as reversible, it wouldn't be possible for a customer to do so.
For casinos who have the lock option, its even easier, set it to auto lock any withdrawals when they are made.
Any casino who genuinely can't remove an option like this, even with a temporary fix, within a week, really need a new dev team!

 

[Kroffe]

I think you are mixing up profits and revenue. Revenue for a casino is NGR(=Wins-Bets-bonuses). Profit is whats left when everything is paid.

Thank god its only the uk market being affected then.
If 30% of a casinos profits come from the reversal option being available there, removing it from all markets would probably be instant doom for a casino.

 

[pinnit2014]

Thank god its only the uk market being affected then.
If 30% of a casinos profits come from the reversal option being available there, removing it from all markets would probably be instant doom for a casino.

Bit of a dodgy business model as well if your cash forecasts are predicated upon a reserving surely; especially given the love of RG atm that will see many casinos wanting/needing (or so they say ;-) ) problem gamblers off their books for fear of fines etc (running with a presumption that a lot of folk who reverse fall into that category, which I don’t know tbh)

Quicker they pay out the quicker they’ll get it back so the 30% may be still achievable just not by ‘reversing’

 

[Slottery]

Wonder why some were stupid and implemented lock functions for withdrawals, pay big part of them automatically or almost instantly or have had only hour period when it can be reversed if 30% of casinos profits on average coming from reversed withdrawals.

That's why asked how it's calculated as haven't able to make that number with any math.

 

[pinnit2014]

Go outside and put your finger in the air

The wind will tell you.

 

[Mr Wild]

Thank god its only the uk market being affected then.
If 30% of a casinos profits come from the reversal option being available there, removing it from all markets would probably be instant doom for a casino.

You don’t seem to understand the issue. The problem is the transaction fees not the people will loose much less.

As you are Swedish I can give you an example of Trustly. Trustly take 3% +€0.5 for each withdrawal and deposit. With the removal of the reversal the amount of deposits and withdrawals will increase and the cost of the is about 30% give or take from the ebita.

 

[Mr Wild]

Wonder why some were stupid and implemented lock functions for withdrawals, pay big part of them automatically or almost instantly or have had only hour period when it can be reversed if 30% of casinos profits on average coming from reversed withdrawals.

That's why asked how it's calculated as haven't able to make that number with any math.

For a paynplay casino about 25% of their gross earnings goes to pay Trustly fees. A normal casino have about 8-9%. Do the math yourself.

 

[Slottery]

For a paynplay casino about 25% of their gross earnings goes to pay Trustly fees. A normal casino have about 8-9%. Do the math yourself.

I've been doing quite a lot of math but struggle to get 30% of profits from reversed withdrawals. PaynPlay casinos only exist for few markets (and still can't make 30% profits from reversed withdrawals when trying). I just would be really interested to see how ending up to 30% with any numbers taken from head to end up that conclusion which is used as fact several times.

Maybe we just have seen really different normal casinos numbers, that's why interested of theoretical example.