£200 in deposits, bet values 20p to 40p on low variance 96% rtp slots

ive noticed in the last few weeks slots have changed,they are very dry,yes the RTP is lower that its ever been,no fun is it,just ask yourself the question like im doing is it actually worth playing anymore.
 
Not a single feature.

Played Rick and Morty, The Goonies, Immoral Romance, Thunderstruck 2, Raging Rex 1,2 and 3, raging rhino. primal megaways and several other slots all on MrQ all with a 96% or higher RTP.

It sucks, and I struggle to believe the RTPs are legit TBH
You are getting something extremely wrong.
One thing is the RTP, other is the volatility.

In a hypothetical scenario for this, if you bet 1£ for 10000 spins and you get 0x in 9999 spins and then one hit of 9600£, you would be playing a 96% RTP slot but with extreme volatility.

If you want your money to last but slowly bleeding it out, play slots with low volatility.
If you want to lose your money quickly but have a shot of hitting something really good, play high volatility slots.
 
i went into live chat on friday to close my KWIFF casino account,i mentioned to the guy that i was leaving because the RTP on slots has been lowered on many slots and i wasnt enjoying my time here anymore,he just seem to go on about gambling safe tools etc and asked me when i gambled was it to make money ? or for the entertainment aspect ? then said its about the random number generator,he said someone can win big on the first spin then others play thousands of spins and win nothing,i said yes the majority of us is certainly the latter.
the BONANZA slot on there is 94% i notiched it was playing different but didnt really bother looking at the RTP this alone put me off playing anymore at this site,so everytime i play at the odd other site will have to check RTP basically the difference between 94% and 96% is massive
 
When you’ve played Bonanza as much as we have, you notice the smallest tweak or change. It’s been changed at all sites, that’s for sure. Whether the correct rtp is being displayed is another question.

BTG were already an underhanded bunch of crooks so getting Evolution onboard will have put them up there with politicians, when it comes to lies and screwing the public.
 
When you’ve played Bonanza as much as we have, you notice the smallest tweak or change. It’s been changed at all sites, that’s for sure. Whether the correct rtp is being displayed is another question.

BTG were already an underhanded bunch of crooks so getting Evolution onboard will have put them up there with politicians, when it comes to lies and screwing the public.
ive been playing bonanza for about 5 years quite frequently,yes i have notiched more change in the last 6 months,one really bizzare thing is in all the bonuses ive had which must be 700-800 not once never a 4 cart trigger 3 cart of course that itself well makes me question everything,its never random,its a machine so its fixed
 
Yes, I haven’t seen the 4 cart trigger in the last 1,000 bonuses either. I’ve also noticed far more paying less than x100 and the max wins not producing a win of any note, the multiplier in the bonus game, rarely hitting x20 or more, equating to a lot of dead spins in the bonus. Along with the amount of consecutive dead spins in the base game, which has definitely increased. Regularly get 10-15 and I’ve even had one patch where I hit 1 win in 31 spins (unbelievable) and it was x1.5 at that.
 
yet we still play it,ive had shocking runs of £50 deposit at 0.40 with not a win above x15 like ive said many times before this game never shows its true potential,i guess if it was between bonanza and wwtbam one would have to choose wwtbam everytime because its max pay is about x4 more than bonanza yes
 
Not a single feature.

Played Rick and Morty, The Goonies, Immoral Romance, Thunderstruck 2, Raging Rex 1,2 and 3, raging rhino. primal megaways and several other slots all on MrQ all with a 96% or higher RTP.

It sucks, and I struggle to believe the RTPs are legit TBH
Absolutely NOT low variance games. Higher tier RTP YES (except for Rhino, which is still decent enough at...what is it 95.91% or something close to that?)

I played TS2 as recently as yesterday. And had to wait until my FORTY-THIRD spin to get my first win ABOVE ONE TIMES STAKE. Marvellous.

In that same session, I got FOUR features in the space of just 48 spins. Wonderful...or so you would think.
All four of them paid less than 15x. And then, later on, in the space of 54 spins, I suffered a net loss of 46x.
How the hell can a player win with "luck" like that?

Low variance? Not a fucking chance. That said, TS2 can still pay reasonably well.
But you will most likely have to suffer a lot of balance shredding first before you get to see/enjoy any of the higher end payouts. At which point, it may only serve to be a pyrrhic victory.

These games have clearly had their volatility increased on the TAKE end, resulting in a much more efficient and ruthless shredding of a player's balance, while at the same time FAILING MISERABLY to deliver the HIGH QUALITY PAYOUTS.

Don't even get me started on Rhino. That game was nerfed to the gills years ago the moment they killed off the Flash version and gave it a HTML5 "makeover".
What was an already high variance game is now a very high variance game with a severely diminished base game.
Without that potential safety net, players are now fully dependant on the features delivering.
Which they do not.
Like IR, a once all-time great slot reduced to a shell of its former greatness, nerfed to the point of being virtually unplayable.

What I have noticed happen a hell of a lot more frequently (particularly in the last 12 months) is the regular INSTANT compensated retributive meltdowns a slot has the moment you DARE to win anything between 15x and 50x. It's not even subtly disguised, it is blatant and totally in your face.
To the extent that you can't even enjoy the low end "big wins" for even a brief moment.
Because it will almost certainly be wiped out within a minute or two, a punishment for having the audacity to land a win that temporarily stops the almost unrelenting rot.

There was a time when you could session games like the likes of IR, TS2 and Finer Reels for SEVERAL HOURS and you could not only win, but also continue to increase your balance. Higher peaks, shallower troughs. You obviously would get bad sessions fairly often, but at least when you were lucky to catch it in a good mood, it played (and more importantly paid) really good.

But now, the opposite is true. The peaks are not only shallower, but they are also significantly scarcer in supply. While the troughs are considerably deeper and much more frequent.

As for Primal, it's nothing more than yet another clear case of higher RTP completely failing to translate to higher quality gameplay.
A game that is chronically difficult to bonus, a game that is chronically difficult to land a 100x win on (in my experience at least). Not a chance in hell that game is low variance. Just another game with high RTP, low variance payouts and high variance take.

All in all, slots have never been harder to win on than they are right now. And that doesn't even include providers with games that have "nosebleed variance", such as NLC, Hacksaw and Relax.

Providers and casinos not only want your money, they want it as quickly as possible and increasingly give less of a rats ass about whether you received the level of entertainment your hard earned money paid for/deserved.

If one mug decides to call it quits, there will be always be a fresh mug waiting to replace them.
Casinos don't need to give a shit about whether players get to ever enjoy themselves while playing slots anymore. Or player retention.

It's all about the profits. Nothing else matters, especially the happiness of the customer.
 
Aren’t all the games mentioned above fairly high variance with the exception of Rick N Morty and Goonies?? Despite some of the in play action on these games they can certainly make you wait for a feature tho.

Primal has ALWAYS been brutal and has never pretended to be low variance.

Rhino is 99% shite unless u get a decent line up in the feature. Always has been. Funnily enough I played this on 365 the other day. I got a very quick and shite feature then the game shredded £400 on 80p stake for absolutely nothing. Not one feature which I have to admit I found baffling given that most of them are dreadful.

Can’t comment on the Raging Rex games but again aren’t they just poor copies of an already poor raging rhino??

TS2 and IR have never really impressed me but I would agree they could hold the balance to a reasonable degree even tho like the above mentioned games the features are normally dire.

Obv a lot of the games mentioned are fairly old but all have always had the ability to go on baron runs. It absolutely sucks but primal especially can deliver fairly chunky wins (mainly from the base rather than the feature) and the miracle line up in rhino is a treat for what compared to some of todays possibilities is a fairly small win!!

It is frustrating, I’ve had so many almost unimaginable scenarios on games that really shouldn’t be capable of sucking so much given what they can deliver.

It’s difficult for providers to get a good balance, and even more difficult for players to load one up and get consistency as a result.
 
I have to agree with every sentiment, I play at Grosvenor and they are always running a slot tournament which normally runs for a 7 day period. I'm playing a brand new slot (not one I would ever touch), it's set at 94% RTP and over the course of the tournament I expect to lose but made up for the fact that i'll get that back plus more with the tournament winnings. I'm currently in second place for £500.

Over the course of play I will pretty much be doing thousands and thousands of spins on minimum stake. Its eye watering the battering my balance is taking. To start with the game was playing ok and the balance was evening out, but third day in an i'm getting absolutely destroyed. I think im on about 25% RTP at the moment. Every deposit (£50 a time) just seems to be getting wiped out at a fast rate with nothing happening and bonuses getting more scarce with those that land barely paying 50x back.

I've noticed this more and more with playing games on an extended period.
 
Well guess who played Rhino for the first time in over a year today?

Yep...this f*&% numpty called yours truly did....that's who.

And in news that will shock ABSOLUTELY BLOODY NOBODY, here is what happened.

100 quid in, 40p bets. I actually managed to make this deposit last an hour and a half.
Because I got TWELVE features. Which is rather good actually.

But it was anything but "rather good".
Because unfortunately, the "best" one of those twelve paid 30x. And it was 39 spins long. *

* Actually, after checking back, the 39 spin feature wasn't quite the best one.
And the best win was slightly more than 30x (31.5x - if you include the 2x triggering win)
Details below at the bottom of the post.

As for the others, here were the erm....."lowlights". Mainly because there weren't any highlights to report!

I had EIGHT features end with a BOG. Of which....

SIX CONSECUTIVE features paid less than 7x
FIVE CONSECUTIVE features paid less than 3.5x.
FOUR CONSECUTIVE features paid less than 1.5x and last but not least...
TWO CONSECUTIVE features that paid ZERO.

Across three features, I at one point had TWENTY-FOUR CONSECUTIVE FREE SPINS, ALL OF WHICH WERE DEAD SPINS. TWENTY FUCKING FOUR.

Are you fucking kidding me, Shite And Blunder?

In all seriousness, how the actual fuck can a slot "randomly" pull out the worst possible set of spins the very moment a feature is triggered. I mean, do they actually WANT you to think that a slot is RIGGED beyond belief?

Of course, that is only part of the story.

Biggest base game win....25x. Surprised I even got one that big tbh.
But of course, there was a bloody craptonne of "what might have beens" in the base game.
Four times I was one reel out from 8 ways of six cheetahs.
One reel short of six ways of crocodiles.
One reel short of 4 ways of 5 Rhinos SEVEN times.
One reel short of 12 ways, 8 ways and 6 ways of Rhinos once each.

In EVERY SINGLE ONE of those spins mentioned above, the one reel that let me down was on the left.
So I ended up with either a 2OAK or a dead spin.

In terms of buyers remorse, that session EASILY ranks among my top 5 of all time in nearly THIRTEEN YEARS of online slotting.

I cannot for the life of me remember a session as frustrating as that.
Where literally nothing goes right, but your agony and frustration is prolonged by the sheer volume of wasted opportunities, that only serve to add insult to injury.

I honestly wish I had busted out having seen only one or two shit features.
Because at least that would have been in line with my less than positive expectations, as well as being less frustrating and painful.
If you play a slot for an hour and a half, get twelve features (which is averaging one every seven or eight minutes) and you STILL can't manage even ONE win of a mere 35x stake during the ENTIRE session, then I think you are more than entitled to believe that a slot has been completely nerfed into the ground and is damn near unplayable. It ain't right.

It was that frustrating that I have now closed my account for three months at the casino where this took place (Gala).

I am absolutely fucking done with casinos that think it is OK to treat me like crap with "entertainment" like THAT. Oh...and to hell with the "the casino doesn't control the games" line. It happened at their site, and I can't complain to the provider. They were my hosts and I had a thoroughly miserable time. So fuck them
and their pathetic rewards wheels where the biggest thing you can win is 50 fucking pence.

EDIT: Oh I just realised, I recorded the features on that Microsoft game bar thingymebob, so I can actually give more accurate details. NB. The 2x triggering wins are not included.

Feature 1 - 13 spins, paid 65p (1.625x)
Feature 2 - 18 spins,, paid £11 (27.5x)
Feature 3 - 8 spins, paid £5.50 (13.75x)
Feature 4 - 13 spins, paid £1.30 (3.25x)
Feature 5 - 8 spins, paid £11.80 (29.5x)
Feature 6 - 39 spins, paid £10.80 (27x)
Feature 7 - 8 spins, paid £1.30 (3.25x)
Feature 8 - 8 spins, paid 40p (1x)
Feature 9 - 13 spins, paid 50p (1.25x) NB. 10p win on last spin
Feature 10 - 8 spins, paid ZERO
Feature 11 - 8 spins, paid ZERO
Feature 12 - 13 spins, paid £2.70 (6.75x). NB. First spin retrigger, but didn't get first win until spin 9, which ended the 24 dead free spins streak.
 
Last edited:
Well guess who played Rhino for the first time in over a year today?

Yep...this f*&% numpty called yours truly did....that's who.

And in news that will shock ABSOLUTELY BLOODY NOBODY, here is what happened.

100 quid in, 40p bets. I actually managed to make this deposit last an hour and a half.
Because I got TWELVE features. Which is rather good actually.

But it was anything but "rather good".
Because unfortunately, the "best" one of those twelve paid 30x. And it was 39 spins long. *

* Actually, after checking back, the 39 spin feature wasn't quite the best one.
And the best win was slightly more than 30x (31.5x - if you include the 2x triggering win)
Details below at the bottom of the post.

As for the others, here were the erm....."lowlights". Mainly because there weren't any highlights to report!

I had EIGHT features end with a BOG. Of which....

SIX CONSECUTIVE features paid less than 7x
FIVE CONSECUTIVE features paid less than 3.5x.
FOUR CONSECUTIVE features paid less than 1.5x and last but not least...
TWO CONSECUTIVE features that paid ZERO.

Across three features, I at one point had TWENTY-FOUR CONSECUTIVE FREE SPINS, ALL OF WHICH WERE DEAD SPINS. TWENTY FUCKING FOUR.

Are you fucking kidding me, Shite And Blunder?

In all seriousness, how the actual fuck can a slot "randomly" pull out the worst possible set of spins the very moment a feature is triggered. I mean, do they actually WANT you to think that a slot is RIGGED beyond belief?

Of course, that is only part of the story.

Biggest base game win....25x. Surprised I even got one that big tbh.
But of course, there was a bloody craptonne of "what might have beens" in the base game.
Four times I was one reel out from 8 ways of six cheetahs.
One reel short of six ways of crocodiles.
One reel short of 4 ways of 5 Rhinos SEVEN times.
One reel short of 12 ways, 8 ways and 6 ways of Rhinos once each.

In EVERY SINGLE ONE of those spins mentioned above, the one reel that let me down was on the left.
So I ended up with either a 2OAK or a dead spin.

In terms of buyers remorse, that session EASILY ranks among my top 5 of all time in nearly THIRTEEN YEARS of online slotting.

I cannot for the life of me remember a session as frustrating as that.
Where literally nothing goes right, but your agony and frustration is prolonged by the sheer volume of wasted opportunities, that only serve to add insult to injury.

I honestly wish I had busted out having seen only one or two shit features.
Because at least that would have been in line with my less than positive expectations, as well as being less frustrating and painful.
If you play a slot for an hour and a half, get twelve features (which is averaging one every seven or eight minutes) and you STILL can't manage even ONE win of a mere 35x stake during the ENTIRE session, then I think you are more than entitled to believe that a slot has been completely nerfed into the ground and is damn near unplayable. It ain't right.

It was that frustrating that I have now closed my account for three months at the casino where this took place (Gala).

I am absolutely fucking done with casinos that think it is OK to treat me like crap with "entertainment" like THAT. Oh...and to hell with the "the casino doesn't control the games" line. It happened at their site, and I can't complain to the provider. They were my hosts and I had a thoroughly miserable time. So fuck them
and their pathetic rewards wheels where the biggest thing you can win is 50 fucking pence.

EDIT: Oh I just realised, I recorded the features on that Microsoft game bar thingymebob, so I can actually give more accurate details. NB. The 2x triggering wins are not included.

Feature 1 - 13 spins, paid 65p (1.625x)
Feature 2 - 18 spins,, paid £11 (27.5x)
Feature 3 - 8 spins, paid £5.50 (13.75x)
Feature 4 - 13 spins, paid £1.30 (3.25x)
Feature 5 - 8 spins, paid £11.80 (29.5x)
Feature 6 - 39 spins, paid £10.80 (27x)
Feature 7 - 8 spins, paid £1.30 (3.25x)
Feature 8 - 8 spins, paid 40p (1x)
Feature 9 - 13 spins, paid 50p (1.25x) NB. 10p win on last spin
Feature 10 - 8 spins, paid ZERO
Feature 11 - 8 spins, paid ZERO
Feature 12 - 13 spins, paid £2.70 (6.75x). NB. First spin retrigger, but didn't get first win until spin 9, which ended the 24 dead free spins streak.
so what is the issue here is it the RTP or something else ?
 
And yet over in this thread I've been comfortably lumping away at HV BTG games (albeit all their back catalogue that is still on the proper RTP at VS, as VS are taking their new stuff at 94% and I won't touch that with a bargepole), with all the stats to back it up, and some decent withdrawals too, so it's not a figment of my imagination or wishful thinking.

Depositing at Videoslots again, because at least it works - Page 11 - Casinomeister Forum

Recently I got twenty hours of play off a single £100 deposit, and at the end of that withdrew £290, all done on 20p spins.

I'm not saying some games out there haven't been changed in terms of their volatility profile, and I'm not familiar with all the games listed above, but as long as you're playing 96% or better (a 4% house edge is already very generous and don't let anyone tell you different), and have the bankroll to ride out the peaks and troughs, 96% on a random game is still going to balance out alright given enough spins. (Albeit you're inevitably going to lose in the long run, because that's literally the only reason they exist in the first place.)

Personally I wouldn't be doing 40p spins on a £100 deposit, the comfort zone I've landed on over the years is a 500x bankroll. For me to go up to 40p spins I'd need a bankroll of £200, which used to be a regular thing in the days of 100% bonuses but they don't seem to exist anymore :)

Obviously things can still go wrong even with a 500x bankroll, but assuming even a really bad session knocking around 60-70%, that's going to buy enough spins to give you a decent chance of landing a solid win at some point.
 
Tbh lasting 1.5 hours @40p on Rhino with that deposit sounds like victory. I would be busting out in 45 minutes if I still played it.

It's always been a tough beast, even on Flash. I ploughed hundreds of thousands through it on Flash, was pretty much obsessed with it for 4 years. Only saw 18 rhinos in the bonus ONCE. But it used to give you a decent run for your money most of the time. Plenty of base game hits and decent retriggering features.

Contrast with the shuddering mess of the HTML version which loves a Bonus Guarantee, crashes if you try to skip the count up when you get a win with Rhinos, constantly shows near misses and for some reason has 9's showing a lot more than the original.

The RTP hasn't changed, so where have the payouts gone? Unless there is a scripted bonus or two in there which pays multiple lots of 16-18 rhinos (unlikely), I can't explain it. Nefarious to say the least.
 
Chops, I’m not disagreeing with what you’ve said, but if you think the norm is sessioning BTG games for a few days and hitting (was it 2 or 3) 500x + bonuses/wins and one of over 1000x then you are wrong. That is incredibly fortunate , of that there is no denying.

To put this into context, it took me 1 year to hit a 500x bonus on bonanza and 2 years to hit a 1000x plus and believe me I played them a shit load more than ur few days!! If you take those incredibly Spawny features / base hits out on QOR then your money doesn’t last anywhere near as much if u replace them with the usual 30x shitters. U got very lucky.

But you are correct, play the games long enough and you’ll make RTP on most games. The only exception I can think of is maybe DOA 2 which if you don’t run well enough on will kill you.

It’s funny how the guy above is complaining about a load of features on rhino doing fuck all. That’s what the game normally does. But compare that to what I got. 500 x stake in deposits for 1 feature?? At least he had a chance!!!
 
Tbh lasting 1.5 hours @40p on Rhino with that deposit sounds like victory. I would be busting out in 45 minutes if I still played it.

It's always been a tough beast, even on Flash. I ploughed hundreds of thousands through it on Flash, was pretty much obsessed with it for 4 years. Only saw 18 rhinos in the bonus ONCE. But it used to give you a decent run for your money most of the time. Plenty of base game hits and decent retriggering features.

Contrast with the shuddering mess of the HTML version which loves a Bonus Guarantee, crashes if you try to skip the count up when you get a win with Rhinos, constantly shows near misses and for some reason has 9's showing a lot more than the original.

The RTP hasn't changed, so where have the payouts gone? Unless there is a scripted bonus or two in there which pays multiple lots of 16-18 rhinos (unlikely), I can't explain it. Nefarious to say the least.
All the bonuses are pre determined on rhino aren’t they???
 
Not a single feature.

Played Rick and Morty, The Goonies, Immoral Romance, Thunderstruck 2, Raging Rex 1,2 and 3, raging rhino. primal megaways and several other slots all on MrQ all with a 96% or higher RTP.

It sucks, and I struggle to believe the RTPs are legit TBH
As already mentioned - most of these are not "low" variance slots though by the old standard or the new.... most of them would be somewhere between high (old scale) and medium-high (new scale).

Don't even get me started on Rhino. That game was nerfed to the gills years ago the moment they killed off the Flash version and gave it a HTML5 "makeover".
What was an already high variance game is now a very high variance game with a severely diminished base game.
Without that potential safety net, players are now fully dependant on the features delivering.
Which they do not.
Like IR, a once all-time great slot reduced to a shell of its former greatness, nerfed to the point of being virtually unplayable.
I wouldn't say the variance has changed, it's just that you get three rhinos and the game crashes out because of a botched HTML5 conversion... it amazes me that SG/LnW still haven't fixed this last I checked because it makes the game unplayable.

100 quid in, 40p bets. I actually managed to make this deposit last an hour and a half.
Because I got TWELVE features. Which is rather good actually.

But it was anything but "rather good".
Because unfortunately, the "best" one of those twelve paid 30x. And it was 39 spins long. *
Rhino was always about the one big hit... the bonus guarantee paid frequently because it was such a lumpy slot in the bonus. Cue flashbacks to @dunover screaming "Jack Queen pissing King" into the microphone...

It's on the brutal end of the spectrum, but I could go back through my notes from 6-8 years ago and probably find similar... it was all about multiple (ideally four) paying wilds in the bonus.

All the bonuses are pre determined on rhino aren’t they???
Absolutely not, WMS used genuine reels - much like with the Life of Luxury discussion a few months back, the PAR sheets may still be out there with the full reel strips and everything. The only thing that would be undisclosed is the distribution of 2x and 3x multipliers but you can probably work that out from gameplay (or RTP modelling) if you really wanted to.

I can't speak for modern LnW games, but old school WMS did almost everything with natural odds.
 
Certainly on the old flash version, if the bonus crashed it would restart it back at the very beginning and produce the exact same results?? That’s what made me think it was all predetermined?? Surely a random call for each spin wouldn’t do that???
 
Certainly on the old flash version, if the bonus crashed it would restart it back at the very beginning and produce the exact same results?? That’s what made me think it was all predetermined?? Surely a random call for each spin wouldn’t do that???
Those results have already been determined by previous RNG calls, it would be a pretty serious violation of game principles (and pretty easy to exploit) if you could reset the bonus in such a way.

Which is also why you would see Microgaming and WMS bonuses occasionally bomb out in the middle - your connection crashed, or some part of the site went down. If it can't commit the RNG result to the database and/or audit logs, it cannot continue the game round and will stop until it can.

I would say nobody would be dumb enough to send the RNG result to the client before committing it to the database / audit logs, but I also remember BTG did exactly that... RocknRolla's infamous two-for-one Extra Chilli bonus, it tried to write the entire game round at the end of the bonus, failed, and then played out a completely different bonus round the second time... 🤡
 
Well yes because each spin on extra chilli ‘s free spins is an entirely independent call to the server? So if it couldn’t close the bonus round out for whatever reason at the end of the feature then obviously a completely different one played out when reloading it. This bug had happened before hadn’t it on BTG games. But it didn’t mean you could just close it down and start the bonus again and get something completely different, it was obviously a fuck up there end somehow?

Thus proving despite what some people think on here that each spin IS a random call and not predetermined in the features.

Obviously I’m not in anyway shape or form a developer for games, so how does rhino work then, if when the game crashes (not by you closing the game down urself) I’m talking about a fuck up in the games free spins?

If unlike BTG it doesn’t make random calls for each spin and just replays the bonus out spin for spin? Does it remember the previous calls and then replay them and then carry on with random calls for each spin after??
 

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