Online Casinos - Casinomeister Logo
Likes Likes:  0
Page 21 of 65 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 648

Thread: Finsoft/Spielo G2 Games Issue

  1. #201
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    548
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks
    287
    Thanked 737 Times in 239 Posts
    Rep Power
    50
    Reputation Points: 5021
    That's what i'm just trying to work out - BetVictor certainly offer Realistic slots games.

    Edit - i've just done a few site: searches in google for matching url fragments at BetVictor from the backends that thelawnet just provided with no hits. I can't say that's conclusive, but it would seem to me to indicate that they're not using Finsoft.
    ThePOGG.com - POGGStrategies.com - POGGWebmasters
    "Like a fox on the run from the well informed sun"

  2. Thanks dionysus thanked this post
  3. #202
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,143
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 705 Times in 257 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation Points: 4473
    Quote Originally Posted by dionysus View Post
    Notable by their abscense are Nordic Bet and BetVictor - is it the case that these venues are getting their games directly from Realistic rather than through Finsoft?

    out of curiosity, he mentioned betvictor; was that a client?
    I am not quite sure of the relevance of betvictor here.

    From what I can see Realistic Games have a core product, ReGal.

    This is in use e.g. at Stan James

    https://realisticgames.stanjames.com/lobby.jspx

    It does not include the cheating hi-lo games in the
    OP
    .

    From what I can see the cheating hi-lo games are only provided through the Finsoft platform.

    With respect to betvictor, the game Triple Chance Hi-Lo was mentioned earlier as a cheating game at Nordic Bet in free play mode.

    I checked this game at betvictor, and whereas at Nordic the free play request looks like this:

    <funplayrequests signature="e19de98168da8fca659a8c5d3fd744a102b1d5e 16aa528d02c9e636f25c7970f" site="NordicBet" mode="FUN" game="TRIPLECHANCEHILO"><funplayrequest id="0" excludenumbers="9,3,11" allowduplicates="true" count="3" rangehigh="13" rangelow="1" method="generaterandomnumbers" /></funplayrequests>

    At betvictor the freeplay request is like this:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!DOCTYPE GameRequest SYSTEM "http://www.orbisuk.com/igf/dtd/GameRequest.dtd"><GameRequest><Header><GameId id="108" free_play="Yes" channel="I" /><Customer cookie="" is_guest="Yes" balance="999.95" /></Header><Play stake="0.05" sequence_no=""><HiLo action="High" action_index="0"><HiLoState game_state="8|8|8" game_status="B" bonuses_left="3" current_winnings="0.00" current_play="0" consecutive_wins="0" /></HiLo></Play></GameRequest>

    As you can see betvictor are using the original Orbis game, whereas Nordic are using the reworked finsoft version.

    So there isn't a case for betvictor to answer here as they are not using the cheating finsoft platform, although it would certainly be advisable to investigate the probity of the Realistic Games that they do offer.

    Nordicbet OTOH use Finsoft - cheating - which I believe they have now pulled.

    Incidentally I think it would be advisable for software providers to maintain a greater degree of oversight of the integrity of their games. In this case the integrity of Openbet games has been compromised by them providing the games to Finsoft. This would have been avoided if they had maintained the games on their own systems rather than allowing a third party to modify the logic of the game.

  4. Thanks ThePOGG, Jufo, TheLastCylon thanked this post
  5. #203
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    548
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks
    287
    Thanked 737 Times in 239 Posts
    Rep Power
    50
    Reputation Points: 5021
    Quote Originally Posted by thelawnet View Post
    I am not quite sure of the relevance of betvictor here.
    The relevance was that we were trying to establish whether BetVictor were using the FinSoft platform or whether they'd aquired Realistic games through some other medium - something that you've successfully answered
    ThePOGG.com - POGGStrategies.com - POGGWebmasters
    "Like a fox on the run from the well informed sun"

  6. #204
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 200 Times in 68 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation Points: 1030
    Hi all,

    Apologies for the delay, but the analysis of significant amounts of data and liaising with multiple suppliers takes time. We have moved as quick as possible without jeopardising the accuracy of the results, which you will find below.

    1. Realistic Games provided the assets and rights to the Reel Deal game but SPIELO G2 developed the game for their operators and in doing so changed a number of core features. As such, it is not right to identify Realistic Games as responsible for how the game performs.
    2. On developing the game, SPEILO G2 developed two version: fixed odds and fixed price. The latter was in operation at Betfred. Fixed price meant that randomness could be introduced via a certified (GLI and TST approved) RNG and an
      RTP
      was introduced. In this case, at 96%
      RTP
      .
    3. The development of the game in this way resulted in SPELO G2 inadvertently running the fun version of the game on a fixed odds model and not a fixed price, and therefore it ran at a different
      RTP
      .
    4. Finally, during the deployment of the game to Betfred the wrong help file was associated with the game and reported the wrong
      RTP
      .


    Our initial offer of compensation in regard to the help file was made. However, having reviewed the analysis from SPEILO G2 and our own, we accept that Betfred Games has been running two versions of the same game for free and money play respectively and that is simply not acceptable. Based on that we will be refunding all losses on the game from when the game was introduced to Betfred, and will be removing other Realistic Games provided by SPIELO G2 to complete a review of their configuration, help files and
    RTP
    and until we’re confident in their accuracy. Compensation payments will be issued within 7 working days.

    We would like to take this opportunity to apologise to our players and to thank the
    OP
    and the Casinomeister forum as a whole for bringing this to our attention. The integrity of our games and operation is of paramount importance to Betfred and value any feedback that strengthens or corrects our operation.

    Finally, our logs and cooperation will remain open to authorised parties to further any part of this investigation.

    Kind regards,

    Aaron

  7. #205
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Up$hitCreek
    Posts
    4,015
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks
    3,638
    Thanked 4,020 Times in 2,067 Posts
    Rep Power
    179
    Reputation Points: 21326
    Quote Originally Posted by Betfred View Post
    Hi all,

    Apologies for the delay, but the analysis of significant amounts of data and liaising with multiple suppliers takes time. We have moved as quick as possible without jeopardising the accuracy of the results, which you will find below.

    1. Realistic Games provided the assets and rights to the Reel Deal game but SPIELO G2 developed the game for their operators and in doing so changed a number of core features. As such, it is not right to identify Realistic Games as responsible for how the game performs.
    2. On developing the game, SPEILO G2 developed two version: fixed odds and fixed price. The latter was in operation at Betfred. Fixed price meant that randomness could be introduced via a certified (GLI and TST approved) RNG and an
      RTP
      was introduced. In this case, at 96%
      RTP
      .
    3. The development of the game in this way resulted in SPELO G2 inadvertently running the fun version of the game on a fixed odds model and not a fixed price, and therefore it ran at a different
      RTP
      .
    4. Finally, during the deployment of the game to Betfred the wrong help file was associated with the game and reported the wrong
      RTP
      .


    Our initial offer of compensation in regard to the help file was made. However, having reviewed the analysis from SPEILO G2 and our own, we accept that Betfred Games has been running two versions of the same game for free and money play respectively and that is simply not acceptable. Based on that we will be refunding all losses on the game from when the game was introduced to Betfred, and will be removing other Realistic Games provided by SPIELO G2 to complete a review of their configuration, help files and
    RTP
    and until we’re confident in their accuracy. Compensation payments will be issued within 7 working days.

    We would like to take this opportunity to apologise to our players and to thank the
    OP
    and the Casinomeister forum as a whole for bringing this to our attention. The integrity of our games and operation is of paramount importance to Betfred and value any feedback that strengthens or corrects our operation.

    Finally, our logs and cooperation will remain open to authorised parties to further any part of this investigation.

    Kind regards,

    Aaron
    Thank you for posting and offering some clarifications as to who is responsible for the gaffed game(s). However, I must repeat .... it's not about the Help file.
    The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool. -- Stephen King

  8. #206
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,143
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 705 Times in 257 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation Points: 4473
    I am not quite clear what you mean by fixed odds and fixed price, and am disturbed by your explanation. There should only be ONE mechanism whereby the return to player is adjusted, and that is by adjusting the odds offered. E.g., a game with a 1/2 chance of winning paying out 2 would have a
    RTP
    of 100%. By adjusting the odds to 1.95 you would reduce the
    RTP
    to 97.5%.

    Obviously the player can see that and make a decision to play accordingly.

    Since there is only one way of fairly adjusting the game, your explanation:

    On developing the game, SPEILO G2 developed two version: fixed odds and fixed price. The latter was in operation at Betfred. Fixed price meant that randomness could be introduced via a certified (GLI and TST approved) RNG and an
    RTP
    was introduced. In this case, at 96%
    RTP
    .
    The development of the game in this way resulted in SPELO G2 inadvertently running the fun version of the game on a fixed odds model and not a fixed price, and therefore it ran at a different
    RTP
    .


    is disturbing.

    Randomness is not 'introduced' to a game, this is a alarming turn of phrase - randomness should be inherent in any game. The result of this of course is that any player - and casino - has the chance to win or lose. Of course if the odds are not generous then the player in the long run will certainly lose, but the whole of online gaming is predicated on the concept that players can win, and this from the outset is based on randomness.

    I watched a bunch of billionaires and professional poker players playing for $10 million a piece recently. Clearly the billionaires were unlikely to win, because they had less skill than their opponents. Equally when we play at an online casino we know that the casino is more likely to win than we do.

    However when people discover that there is something more going on than that, that the cards were sorted to ensure the pros won, that the casino game is not inherently random, that's when people get very angry.

    It seems to me that you don't get this AT ALL, because you describe how an
    RTP
    'was introduced' at 96%, but this can only be done by stacking the deck - so the game is DESIGNED with a cheating mechanism by the developers.

    There simply cannot be two ways to adjust the
    RTP
    on these games.

    There is ONE way - and that is by adjusting the odds.

    Your 'fixed price' in more normal parlance is simply 'fixed', 'rigged', 'cheating'.

    For a simple fixed odds game like this you adjust the payout if you want to make more money - simple. For blackjack you can change the rules, hit soft 21, more decks, no hole card - but for these arcade-type games changing the odds is the only way to do it, and help files are not the issue. If you can't afford an even money 100%
    RTP
    game - simple - don't pretend you offer one; you know very well that offering a payout of 2 on a 50/50 bet is much more attractive than a payout of 1.92 or whatever, so it's entirely unreasonable to induce players to play with apparently attractive odds on a 50/50 bet. I certainly wouldn't take 1.92 on a 50/50 bet.

    And by the way issue is not specifically with Realistic Games but with the Finsoft (or Spielo G2 as you are calling them, but that is less specific as they are a larger firm) platform.

    Other games, developed by Dynamite Idea and Orbis/Openbet are cheating in free play mode through the Finsoft platform.

    In free play mode these games are designed by Finsoft to operate a much higher return, even a player advantage, than in real play mode.

    Clearly it is unacceptable that these games are designed to demonstrate a higher-than-actual chance of winning, yet you are still offering them on your site with no offer of compensation.

  9. #207
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    154
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 710 Times in 116 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation Points: 3597
    Quote Originally Posted by Betfred View Post
    1. Finally, during the deployment of the game to Betfred the wrong help file was associated with the game and reported the wrong
      RTP
      .
    Just to clarify, you are saying that you intended to operate a game that gave the impression of being a fair selection of cards, when it was not. That is, it was your intention to violate the principle that virtual objects act the same as the physical objects they represent. You are saying that Spielo created a game where the virtual and physical objects acted differently, in viloation of UKGC and GRA guidelines.

    You have now implicated Spielo in outright fraud, and said that you are complicit in it by not offering the right help file. That is, it appears you are saying that Betfred would have been satisfied offering these gaffed products, but for the wrong help file. In other words, Betfred is okay right now, today, with violating UKGC and GRA guidelines.

    Once the trust is broken that physical and virtual objects should behave the same, Betfred has violated the essential foundation on which its business is built. The player will no doubt question every virtual object at Betfred, whether its cards, dice, a roulette wheel, etc. Surely you must realize the magnitude of this breach.

  10. Thanks Sk0t, ThePOGG, maphesto, Pulver, Nifty29 and 20 others thanked this post
  11. #208
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    548
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks
    287
    Thanked 737 Times in 239 Posts
    Rep Power
    50
    Reputation Points: 5021
    Quote Originally Posted by Betfred View Post
    Hi all,

    Apologies for the delay, but the analysis of significant amounts of data and liaising with multiple suppliers takes time. We have moved as quick as possible without jeopardising the accuracy of the results, which you will find below.

    1. Realistic Games provided the assets and rights to the Reel Deal game but SPIELO G2 developed the game for their operators and in doing so changed a number of core features. As such, it is not right to identify Realistic Games as responsible for how the game performs.
    2. On developing the game, SPEILO G2 developed two version: fixed odds and fixed price. The latter was in operation at Betfred. Fixed price meant that randomness could be introduced via a certified (GLI and TST approved) RNG and an
      RTP
      was introduced. In this case, at 96%
      RTP
      .
    3. The development of the game in this way resulted in SPELO G2 inadvertently running the fun version of the game on a fixed odds model and not a fixed price, and therefore it ran at a different
      RTP
      .
    4. Finally, during the deployment of the game to Betfred the wrong help file was associated with the game and reported the wrong
      RTP
      .


    Our initial offer of compensation in regard to the help file was made. However, having reviewed the analysis from SPEILO G2 and our own, we accept that Betfred Games has been running two versions of the same game for free and money play respectively and that is simply not acceptable. Based on that we will be refunding all losses on the game from when the game was introduced to Betfred, and will be removing other Realistic Games provided by SPIELO G2 to complete a review of their configuration, help files and
    RTP
    and until we’re confident in their accuracy. Compensation payments will be issued within 7 working days.

    We would like to take this opportunity to apologise to our players and to thank the
    OP
    and the Casinomeister forum as a whole for bringing this to our attention. The integrity of our games and operation is of paramount importance to Betfred and value any feedback that strengthens or corrects our operation.

    Finally, our logs and cooperation will remain open to authorised parties to further any part of this investigation.

    Kind regards,

    Aaron
    Hi Aaron,

    thelawnet is absolutely correct regarding the real issues here. As the game in question used a standard device (a deck of cards) to adjust the true odds of the game away from the natural odds (i.e. to change the likelihood of drawing any card away from 1 in 52) is flat out cheating. In no regulated offline jurisdiction would a game like this be allowed on the casino floor.

    And none of that answers any of the questions regarding the free play games that are offering a higher
    RTP
    than their real play equivalents, a practice that's long been considered the realm of rogue operators. At this stage FinSoft's reputation is damaged beyond repair.
    ThePOGG.com - POGGStrategies.com - POGGWebmasters
    "Like a fox on the run from the well informed sun"

  12. #209
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Hello.
    Posts
    2,332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks
    470
    Thanked 2,188 Times in 886 Posts
    Rep Power
    90
    Reputation Points: 11270
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePOGG View Post
    And none of that answers any of the questions regarding the free play games that are offering a higher
    RTP
    than their real play equivalents, a practice that's long been considered the realm of rogue operators. At this stage FinSoft's reputation is damaged beyond repair.
    Not just FinSoft
    IMO
    , the response from Betfred basically appears to be saying that cheating card games are OK as long as you attach a help file with the correct
    RTP
    to it.

  13. Thanks maphesto, ThePOGG, Nifty29, LaHutti, Jufo and 5 others thanked this post
  14. #210
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    cyberspace
    Posts
    254
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks
    60
    Thanked 164 Times in 74 Posts
    Rep Power
    50
    Reputation Points: 774
    Spielo G2, who are apparently responsible for rigging this game, are probably much more known under their former name, Boss Media.

    The fact that they would rig a game like this makes all their games suspect.

  15. Thanks ThePOGG, LaHutti, Przecinek, LinkinFart thanked this post
Page 21 of 65 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast

Bladwijzers

Bladwijzers

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Legal Statements and Privacy Policy
Casinomeister.com does not intend for any of the information contained on this website to be used for illegal purposes. You must ensure you meet all age and other regulatory requirements before entering a casino or placing a wager. Online gambling is illegal in many jurisdictions and users should consult legal counsel regarding the legal status of online gambling and gaming in their jurisdictions. The information in this site is for news and entertainment purposes only. Casinomeister.com is an independent directory and information service free of any gaming operator's control. Links to third party websites on Casinomeister.com are provided solely for informative/educational purposes. If you use these links, you leave this Website.